Game 7 Game Day Thread - Page 16 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LRB · 05-04-2003, 05:36 PM

<<

<<

<< bad news: Don Nelson's our coach for at least another year. >>

I still think unless we win a championship this year that Nellie should go. Tonight's win while not screwed up by Nellie, still didn't leave me very impressed with his coaching. >>

I think your asking a bit too much from Nellie. This team is still young. It didn't take Sac overnight to become the team they are now. Today I saw that Nellie doesn't have anything to work with inside. No reason a 1 year guy should punish us like that. I would agree that if Nellie lost today i'd call for Nellie's job myself but if we have a good series with the Sac whether its a win or a loss I am not going to judge it on how far we go. Just how well we play. >>

I've seen too many screwup's by Nellie this year. No, I don't think this team by any stretch should be considered a favorite to win it all this year. I just don't see the team getting better in the playoffs with Nellie. Nellie great at getting us to be a good team. But he seems to be the chief element holding us back from becoming a great team. I'm just not going to be happy to sit back and settle for being a good team if there is a better chance to become a great team. Nellie puts too much emphasis on offense and not enough on defense and rebounding in his coaching and the players that he acquires. This trend is getting worse not better. Even our offense has been on the slide over the last couple of months. Too many bad shots, too much one on one play. But this is what Nellie keeps preaching to his players. We'll probably be a perenn1al playoff team, but never be a favorite to win it all.

seelenjaeger · 05-04-2003, 05:37 PM

Congrats to everyone BUT Nellie for this victory. As usual when we win, it was all the team and neither Nellie the coach nor Nellie the GM who is responsible. He should be fired immediately. The great Dallas Mavs fans, who never give up and support their team all the time deserve another coach and GM, because we´ve achieved nothing with Nellie. Take a look where we are now ... man, 3rd year in a row in the 2nd round, and still no ring.

To all those who understand my lines: congrats, and bring on the Kings!

FilthyFinMavs · 05-04-2003, 05:38 PM

<< Why does everyone think this team is young? We are not young, getting older.

Nellie is not a great coach, he's a good coach. I fear this team needs a great coach to overcome the deficiences created by the GM. >>

The players are getting older but this team is young. This team is 2 years old. Fin and Nash are around there 30's.

thebac · 05-04-2003, 05:38 PM

<< I think your asking a bit too much from Nellie. This team is still young. It didn't take Sac overnight to become the team they are now. Today I saw that Nellie doesn't have anything to work with inside. No reason a 1 year guy should punish us like that. I would agree that if Nellie lost today i'd call for Nellie's job myself but if we have a good series with the Sac whether its a win or a loss I am not going to judge it on how far we go. Just how well we play. >>

That's the voice of reason here. SAC did not become a contender overnight, and I think a lot of people are expecting the Mavs to. Others say that the Mavs won't win because they don't play the way teams play conventionally in the playoffs. I say Dirk is not your conventional player, so a) it might be impossible for the Mavs to win it all the conventional way with Dirk leading the way and b) the Mavs might be able to win in an unconventional way with Dirk.

However, I take issue with Nellie not having anyone to work with inside (though maybe I misunderstood you): I think Nellie himself is primarily responsible for not having anyone inside. If he wins without an inside force, I'm happy (as I am today), but if the Mavs lose because of the lack of it, it should be considered Nellie's fault--he assembled the team.

Julius · 05-04-2003, 05:40 PM

My girl called, i did a phone report. The Mavs have won and she is back in town, looks like a perfect night for me[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]!!
Dirk is a clutch player!
Najera is a great hustle guy!
Nick has ice in his veins!
Bradley can play some D!
Nash played good!
Finley took some important reb´s!
Nellies gameplan worked!
LaFrentz fouls too much!
Abdul-Wahad should have played some of Finleys minutes!
The Mavs can only win with defense, rebounds and as a result of it -fastbreaks!
The crowd wasn´t a (big) factor!
Playoff Basketball is at its best when your team wins!!
I still believe we can beat Sacramento!
I love BBall, Dirk, and my girlfriend!
Now i have a date[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img], need to hurry! Have a nice day/night everybody, i do!

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 05:40 PM

Hey, if you wanna give Nellie credit, then name moves he made today that affected the game.

I saw nothing, but I'll listen if you wanna state your case.

If you're going to say that he decided to go small-ball and that made the difference, don't bother. I haven't seen small-ball work once this year. He decided, once again, to try to shoot his way out of this. NVE came through for him today. But don't bet on seeing it pull them out again.

But anyway, make your case, Nellophiles. We're listening.

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2003, 05:41 PM

Okay, if we lose out in the second round AGAIN, do you concede that we need a new coach?

madape · 05-04-2003, 05:41 PM

Didn't we just beat one of those big athletic teams built around rebounding? If that method guarantees you a championship, then what's going on?

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2003, 05:42 PM

It doesn't guarantee anything madape, but it sure makes up for a lack of talent. All I want is a little less talent and a lot more big/athletic.

FilthyFinMavs · 05-04-2003, 05:43 PM

<<

<< I think your asking a bit too much from Nellie. This team is still young. It didn't take Sac overnight to become the team they are now. Today I saw that Nellie doesn't have anything to work with inside. No reason a 1 year guy should punish us like that. I would agree that if Nellie lost today i'd call for Nellie's job myself but if we have a good series with the Sac whether its a win or a loss I am not going to judge it on how far we go. Just how well we play. >>

That's the voice of reason here. SAC did not become a contender overnight, and I think a lot of people are expecting the Mavs to. Others say that the Mavs won't win because they don't play the way teams play conventionally in the playoffs. I say Dirk is not your conventional player, so a) it might be impossible for the Mavs to win it all the conventional way with Dirk leading the way and b) the Mavs might be able to win in an unconventional way with Dirk.

However, I take issue with Nellie not having anyone to work with inside (though maybe I misunderstood you): I think Nellie himself is primarily responsible for not having anyone inside. If he wins without an inside force, I'm happy (as I am today), but if the Mavs lose because of the lack of it, it should be considered Nellie's fault--he assembled the team. >>

I agree in some way that it is Nellie's fault that he doesn't have anything inside. This team Nellie has right now is his dream team. We have 2 of the most inconsistent centers in the NBA. How we got the 2 most inconsistent centers in the NBA is all on Nellies shoulder. We have a good free agent class this offseason and we get to see what route Nellie takes.

DTL · 05-04-2003, 05:43 PM

From AP recap:

In short, they lived up to what was written on their locker-room message board before the game: ``This game is not about Xs and Os. This is a heart and gut check. It's about will.''

Do we know who wrote that?

LRB · 05-04-2003, 05:45 PM

<<

<< Why does everyone think this team is young? We are not young, getting older.

Nellie is not a great coach, he's a good coach. I fear this team needs a great coach to overcome the deficiences created by the GM. >>

The players are getting older but this team is young. This team is 2 years old. Fin and Nash are around there 30's. >>

This is a relatively old team by NBA standards. Most of the players are on the decline physically, including Nash and Fin. There is no youth movement on this team. Dirk is the baby on the team at 25. This team desperately needs youth and athletism. Instead of pieces of human crap like Popeye, Esh, Rig and overthehill hasbeens like Walt and AJ we need young guys who we can develop. We don't have them and no real good prospects of getting any. This team doesn't have long before everyone but Dirk will have very little trade value. If we reach that point, we may very well loose out on our best chance to win a championship during many of Dirk's prime years.

MFFL · 05-04-2003, 05:47 PM

<< Didn't we just beat one of those big athletic teams built around rebounding? If that method guarantees you a championship, then what's going on? >>

Didn't they have two starting players unable to go in this game?

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 05:48 PM

<< Didn't we just beat one of those big athletic teams built around rebounding? If that method guarantees you a championship, then what's going on? >>

Where was Dale Davis.

Sabonis dominated inside.

Anderson was injured, Pippen was maybe 35%.

And it took three monster games by Dirk to beat them, in the last 8 minutes of the 7th game.

Portland, as the 6th seed, DOMINATED the Mavs for much of the last 4 games. They definitely need to be retooled.

LRB · 05-04-2003, 05:49 PM

<< Didn't we just beat one of those big athletic teams built around rebounding? If that method guarantees you a championship, then what's going on? >>

We don't need a complete team of big athletic players. We do however need a few to realisticly compete for a championship. We can still have a lot of skill players with little athletism, but we do need more athletic players.

FilthyFinMavs · 05-04-2003, 05:49 PM

<< Okay, if we lose out in the second round AGAIN, do you concede that we need a new coach? >>

Like I said it matters how we lose. If we give up 115 layups and dunks then you can call for his head. I'm not asking for Nellie to coach us a stellar game I am asking for him not to lose us a game. I thought Nellie made a good decision by letting Bradley play alot in the 2nd half even though in the 3rd he struggled a bit. I do not like the fact that he isn't giving TAW any playing time but thats just a minor flaw I have. It's nothing new for me to see fans wanting a coach fired. What team in the NBA has fans that doesn't want there coach fired? I guarantee you go to Lakersground.net or WOAI.NET and search back to when those teams were struggling and I promise you will see fire Pop or fire Phil. It's nothing new for me but atleast give Nellie a chance to prove himself. Regular season means nothing. The playoffs are just beginning now and we start on Tuesday.

seelenjaeger · 05-04-2003, 05:52 PM

Funny, I thought we almost won game 5, but maybe Portland dominated us this game ...

Matter of perspective Kiki, I pounding style always seems to be more powerful, in-control than our style. We had abysmal games by Dirk, Nash, Fin, and our Centers this series, questionable calls and blown 4th quarter leads. STILL Portland was unable to win it. How about this view?

FilthyFinMavs · 05-04-2003, 05:53 PM

<<

<<

<< Why does everyone think this team is young? We are not young, getting older.

Nellie is not a great coach, he's a good coach. I fear this team needs a great coach to overcome the deficiences created by the GM. >>

The players are getting older but this team is young. This team is 2 years old. Fin and Nash are around there 30's. >>

This is a relatively old team by NBA standards. Most of the players are on the decline physically, including Nash and Fin. There is no youth movement on this team. Dirk is the baby on the team at 25. This team desperately needs youth and athletism. Instead of pieces of human crap like Popeye, Esh, Rig and overthehill hasbeens like Walt and AJ we need young guys who we can develop. We don't have them and no real good prospects of getting any. This team doesn't have long before everyone but Dirk will have very little trade value. If we reach that point, we may very well loose out on our best chance to win a championship during many of Dirk's prime years. >>

Okay so since we have 2 30 year olds on this team that means we aren't a young team? What? I'm confident that Fin and Nash can play at a high level for a couple of more years. Stock, Malone and even MJ have showed that.

madape · 05-04-2003, 05:53 PM

Zone defenses, small ball line-ups and a killer transition game. The staples of Nelson's Mavericks once again come up victorious.

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2003, 06:00 PM

LOL, I found this in the recap at NBA.com, hilarious stuff.

But perhaps their biggest boost came from Portland forward Ruben Patterson, who after Game Six said of Dallas, "I think they're a little scared now, they've got their backs against the wall."

"I'd like to thank Ruben Patterson for being as dumb as a rock," Dallas coach Don Nelson said.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 06:03 PM

damon stoudamire said.."from our standpoint.. the guy that really hurt us tonight was van exel...if van exel didnt play the game he played..we'd be talkin about us winning this game.."

hmm 10-15? wats the fg % on that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ohh yea he shared the ball when it mattered in the 4th.. while hitting some key shots.. all 3 of his assists came in the 4th

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2003, 06:06 PM

<< damon stoudamire said.."from our standpoint.. the guy that really hurt us tonight was van exel...if van exel didnt play the game he played..we'd be talkin about us winning this game.."

hmm 10-15? wats the fg % on that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ohh yea he shared the ball when it mattered in the 4th.. while hitting some key shots.. all 3 of his assists came in the 4th >>

LOL!

sturm und drang · 05-04-2003, 06:57 PM

I'm not an NVE fan, but I will give him mad props for tonight's game. He made all the shots we could ask for-- but didn't take any of the stupid shots we usually malign him for. He turned it on, but didn't let that affect his shot selection.

Way to go, Nick. Without you, I don't think we would've won this game.

Note: LaFrentz is still worthless.

Lvubun1 · 05-04-2003, 06:59 PM

<<

<<

<< NVE giveth, NVE taketh away. NVE taketh a stupid, ill-advised shot attempt over Sabonis with Dirk open

I hate NVE. >>

what?! thats his shot, he just missed... he is 5-7 in the game.. and you say you hate him?! jeez some of you guys...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] >>

How much do you want to bet that NVE shoots under 50% tonight? >>

Leave the gambling to Vegas.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 07:01 PM

Nellie on Big Four (Van Exel):
"Hey, he’s a big-time player. We’ve seen him do it against us and everybody else. He beat the Lakers by himself when he was with Denver a few times. He’s a big play guy and that three he made when Nowitzki wouldn’t come and set the pick he was supposed to, left him out there by himself. So Nick shot about a 35’ three."

notice:
"when Nowitzki wouldn’t come and set the pick he was supposed to, left him out there by himself."

that happens sometimes when plays are ran for nve which leads to horrible shot selection..

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 07:05 PM

<< hmm 10-15? wats the fg % on that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ohh yea he shared the ball when it mattered in the 4th.. while hitting some key shots.. all 3 of his assists came in the 4th >>

(8:40) [DAL 80-78] Nash Reverse Layup: Made (14 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (1 AST)
(8:38) [POR] Team Timeout: Regular
(8:23) [POR] Wells Jump Shot: Missed
(8:21) [DAL] Finley Rebound (Off:2 Def:5)
(8:18) [POR] Stoudamire Foul: Personal (3 PF)
(8:18) [POR] Wells Substitution replaced by Pippen
(8:18) [POR] Randolph Substitution replaced by Sabonis
(8:06) [DAL 82-78] Van Exel Jump Shot: Made (23 PTS)
(7:54) [DAL] Van Exel Foul: Personal (2 PF)
(7:41) [POR] Stoudamire Jump Shot: Missed
(7:39) [POR] Pippen Rebound (Off:1 Def:2)
(7:26) [POR 81-82] Wallace Jump Shot: Made (8 PTS) Assist: Pippen (2 AST)
(7:05) [DAL 85-81] Nash Jump Shot: Made (17 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (2 AST)
(6:44) [POR 83-85] Wallace Jump Shot: Made (10 PTS)
(6:29) [DAL 87-83] Nowitzki Driving Layup: Made (21 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (3 AS

More precisely, all three of NVE's assists came within a 2-minute span of Q4. Hardly the kind of 48-minute ball distribution you need from a first-tier point guard.

I have no problem saying that NVE saved their bacon tonight. I do have problems when he tries to beat a team 1 on 5, when he should be setting up Dirk, Fin and Nash.

NVE's best use is a spot scorer. When he plays for long stretches and starts to dominate the ball, looking ONLY for HIS shot, the team stagnates. I've seen it before. I saw it today. He ended up bailing them out with a huge game, but no-way-no-how I see him being able to lead this team over the long-haul.

Enjoy the win, but don't overstate the significance, and you damned sure shouldn't overstate what it means in terms of NVE's overall value to the team. Bigger tests ahead.

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 07:10 PM

How does NVE get an assist off a Nowitzki driving layup anyway?

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 07:11 PM

<<

<< hmm 10-15? wats the fg % on that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ohh yea he shared the ball when it mattered in the 4th.. while hitting some key shots.. all 3 of his assists came in the 4th >>

(8:40) [DAL 80-78] Nash Reverse Layup: Made (14 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (1 AST)
(8:38) [POR] Team Timeout: Regular
(8:23) [POR] Wells Jump Shot: Missed
(8:21) [DAL] Finley Rebound (Off:2 Def:5)
(8:18) [POR] Stoudamire Foul: Personal (3 PF)
(8:18) [POR] Wells Substitution replaced by Pippen
(8:18) [POR] Randolph Substitution replaced by Sabonis
(8:06) [DAL 82-78] Van Exel Jump Shot: Made (23 PTS)
(7:54) [DAL] Van Exel Foul: Personal (2 PF)
(7:41) [POR] Stoudamire Jump Shot: Missed
(7:39) [POR] Pippen Rebound (Off:1 Def:2)
(7:26) [POR 81-82] Wallace Jump Shot: Made (8 PTS) Assist: Pippen (2 AST)
(7:05) [DAL 85-81] Nash Jump Shot: Made (17 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (2 AST)
(6:44) [POR 83-85] Wallace Jump Shot: Made (10 PTS)
(6:29) [DAL 87-83] Nowitzki Driving Layup: Made (21 PTS) Assist: Van Exel (3 AS

More precisely, all three of NVE's assists came within a 2-minute span of Q4. Hardly the kind of 48-minute ball distribution you need from a first-tier point guard.

I have no problem saying that NVE saved their bacon tonight. I do have problems when he tries to beat a team 1 on 5, when he should be setting up Dirk, Fin and Nash.

NVE's best use is a spot scorer. When he plays for long stretches and starts to dominate the ball, looking ONLY for HIS shot, the team stagnates. I've seen it before. I saw it today. He ended up bailing them out with a huge game, but no-way-no-how I see him being able to lead this team over the long-haul.

Enjoy the win, but don't overstate the significance, and you damned sure shouldn't overstate what it means in terms of NVE's overall value to the team. Bigger tests ahead. >>

ok man van exel has played a very good series very consistent.. yes sometimes he starts to dominate looking for his own shot.. but let me ask you this.. who doesnt?!

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 07:12 PM

<< How does NVE get an assist off a Nowitzki driving layup anyway? >>

off a pass

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 07:17 PM

<<

<< How does NVE get an assist off a Nowitzki driving layup anyway? >>

off a pass >>

If Nowitzki drove, i.e., put the ball on the floor, NVE shouldn't be getting an assist, by definition.

<< ok man van exel has played a very good series very consistent.. yes sometimes he starts to dominate looking for his own shot.. but let me ask you this.. who doesnt?! >>

Not a question of who doesn't, but who shouldn't. And a PG playing on a team with Dirk and Fin should NOT be a shoot-first, pass-second PG.

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 07:23 PM

<<

<<

<< How does NVE get an assist off a Nowitzki driving layup anyway? >>

off a pass >>

If Nowitzki drove, i.e., put the ball on the floor, NVE shouldn't be getting an assist, by definition.

okk jus take an assist away then who cares..

<< ok man van exel has played a very good series very consistent.. yes sometimes he starts to dominate looking for his own shot.. but let me ask you this.. who doesnt?! >>

Not a question of who doesn't, but who shouldn't. And a PG playing on a team with Dirk and Fin should NOT be a shoot-first, pass-second PG. >>

i bet if you ask dirk or nash or fin or don or cuban or almost anybody else who follows basketball without wearing "i hate van exel" glasses they would say feed van exel when hes hot..He had one bad qtr this whole series.. and since then you seem to have a hate for him... big time players make big time plays.. he has made big time plays this far in the playoffs he also goofed a couple, but so has the rest of the team. Did you watch the game..? or the series?

Lvubun1 · 05-04-2003, 07:26 PM

The last couple posts in this thread have been extremely sad.

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 07:27 PM

Yeah. I've seen most of it.

Haven't missed a one of the stretches where NVE comes in, hogs the ball, and bogs down the offense.

Wouldn't be so bad if LaF and Mantis were the frontcourt players. When it's Dirk and Fin, it's lack of judgment--whether I say it, Nellie says it, Cuban says it, or Dirk, Nash or Fin say it.

He's a gunner. Not a true PG. Use him as the latter, not the former. In either case, the probabilities are not on the Mavericks' side.

MavKikiNYC · 05-04-2003, 07:27 PM

<< The last couple posts in this thread have been extremely sad. >>

And despite the win, so was a lot about today's win.

Murphy3 · 05-04-2003, 07:30 PM

NVE came up big today..He was due to have a big game

He deserves credit. He came up big today after almost single handedly blowing game five with his decision making in the fourth

Murphy3 · 05-04-2003, 07:31 PM

the bad part is, is that NVE's good play will overshadow his selfish play throughout the series..
all people will remember is his game 7 instead of remembering the issues concerned with having him in the game

DrtyFlthyNstYnQuik31 · 05-04-2003, 07:42 PM

<< the bad part is, is that NVE's good play will overshadow his selfish play throughout the series..
all people will remember is his game 7 instead of remembering the issues concerned with having him in the game >>

murph i get where you are coming from.. that qtr where he tooks stupid shots.. but other than that he had a great series.. Yes, they ran isolation plays for him in certain situations but van exel did bail them out at times...i dont know where you get selfish from.. I mean dirk get isolation plays, steve gets isolation plays, fin gets isolation plays... I mean why cant nick get them? after all he came up in the biggest way possible.. GAME 7 ...

dude1394 · 05-04-2003, 07:49 PM

Haven't been on the board lately, can't stand all of the negativity. I was curious about some stuff however if you would indulge me:

- How loud did the arena seem? It was DURN loud in there, I tell you.

- What about the dirk charge and then the non-charge called on eddie right after that, any comment from the commentators?

- Also thought that nellie did an excellent job today. Instead of playing the big line-up he started with najera, and got the mavs away from trying to slug it out with portland. I was very dissappointed in game 5 to see us only take 5 3ptrs, it's just not our game. I thought the team played much more of their own style tonight. I'm sure nellie had a lot to do with it.

- Great job by nick, dirk and steve for some cold-blooded threes.

Murphy3 · 05-04-2003, 07:51 PM

NVE had a big game at the right time.. he was for a big game due and he came through.

Nash also had probably as good of a game..and dirk was the man today.

and dude, sorry..i guess we should all just be homers to make you happy instead of taking a realistic look at the situation

Murphy3 · 05-04-2003, 07:53 PM

my main problem with nick is this..he is so much better of a player when he plays under control..as good as nash.

but, he doesn't play under control enough and it frustrates the living hell out of me. At times, he becomes extremely selfish and the offense stagnates..at other times, he's on and difficult to stop.

He CAN play smart and play solid ball. Him playing good basketball isn't dependent upon him playing an out of control style..not at all. He rarely hits a shot when he's out of control.