NBA Season 15-16: General Thread - Page 17 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 05-03-2016, 12:57 AM

@mtb0880:

MavzMan · 05-03-2016, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I see the Thunder mucking it up down low and making it physical next game. Its their only hope.

You nailed this one. That was 90's era game with so much contact and pushing/pulling. The refs pretty much let everything go. OKC was just brutal with how much they got away with yet LMA was amazing. SA fell into a little of "we're great, we'll win this in the end" mentality which is really surprising. This will be THE series to watch for this round for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@mtb0880:

Much as I hate the guy, gotta give Manu props when he said "it doesn't matter". I do my best to adopt the attitude of "Don't let it come down to the final possession/ref call" and that's exactly what the Spurs did. They should have taken care of business earlier and didn't, so they didn't deserve the win. Lets see how they respond the rest of the series.

Did this wake up the Spurs or are they finally/officially OLD and unable to maintain this level of play? Tune in true believers!

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-03-2016, 09:14 AM

Yeeeah, this still felt like our win in game two though. Spurs will be extremely hard to beat in the next game. They still have 0 answer for LA and only need one other player to step up on offense.

It's weird how awful Danny Green has been this season. He is definitely an x factor.

TripleDipping · 05-03-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@mtb0880:

Chris Webber lost his wad during the TNT broadcast yesterday complaining about point 2.

Add the list to a long list of NBA ref fails.

edit: and true to NBA high integrity fashion, they admit the missed call today.

Skywalker · 05-03-2016, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleDipping

Chris Webber lost his wad during the TNT broadcast yesterday complaining about point 2.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's pulled from commentating on that series from now on.

MavzMan · 05-03-2016, 01:41 PM

I'm sure he'll be reprimanded, but I don't think they will pull him.

Melonhead · 05-03-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

You nailed this one. That was 90's era game with so much contact and pushing/pulling. The refs pretty much let everything go. OKC was just brutal with how much they got away with yet LMA was amazing. SA fell into a little of "we're great, we'll win this in the end" mentality which is really surprising. This will be THE series to watch for this round for sure.

I was shocked to see what the refs were letting OKC get away with down low. They are so reactionary. Game 1 Thunder were called for four 3 pt AND 1s. You had to know they were going to swallow the whistle for game 2. And the thunder werent necessarily doing shady things. They were common fouling and no one was blowing the whistle.

MavzMan · 05-04-2016, 09:26 AM

And I don't get WHY the refs change the strategy in the playoffs either. It is almost two completely opposite styles where the league doesn't like to hinder movement and calls ticky-tack fouls in the regular season, but then this last game it's literally a free-for-all and can do just about anything you want including the stupid offensive foul at the end.

Rules are rules and shouldn't have two different sets for regular season and playoffs. This just reinforces the WW-NBA theme.

EricaLubarsky · 05-04-2016, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

And I don't get WHY the refs change the strategy in the playoffs either. It is almost two completely opposite styles where the league doesn't like to hinder movement and calls ticky-tack fouls in the regular season, but then this last game it's literally a free-for-all and can do just about anything you want including the stupid offensive foul at the end.

Rules are rules and shouldn't have two different sets for regular season and playoffs. This just reinforces the WW-NBA theme.

It's almost as if it's sports-entertainment and not an actual sport.

Underdog · 05-04-2016, 08:30 PM

J.B. Bickerstaff Would Rather Take A Demotion Than Coach The Rockets Again

EricaLubarsky · 05-04-2016, 10:06 PM

Rockets are a joke. I love it

Thebo · 05-04-2016, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

J.B. Bickerstaff Would Rather Take A Demotion Than Coach The Rockets Again

How often does something like this happen? I imagine Jeff Van Gundy is staying away also. But people staying away from Rockets, when their roster will have a complete overhaul this summer, is epic.

I wonder if any previous NBA head coach is going to even consider coaching Harden.

EricaLubarsky · 05-04-2016, 11:52 PM

Kenny Smith with a chance at coaching? Harden will call his own plays anyway and the Rockets will be headed to another season of mediocrity either way.

mac222b · 05-05-2016, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleDipping

Chris Webber lost his wad during the TNT broadcast yesterday complaining about point 2.

Add the list to a long list of NBA ref fails.

edit: and true to NBA high integrity fashion, they admit the missed call today.

Two things: all violations aren't created equal. Some could be legitimately overlooked. Waiters pushing Ignobly in the chest with the ref looking at him! That's just piss poor.

Webber gained some new found respect. He didn't politick or sugarcoat it. Kudos

mac222b · 05-05-2016, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Rockets are a joke. I love it

They suddenly have staggeringly few assets too as far as I can see. They seemed pretty loaded not that long ago.

spreedom · 05-05-2016, 12:40 PM

Pacers fire Frank Vogel.... in what I would call an extremely puzzling move.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-05-2016, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Pacers fire Frank Vogel.... in what I would call an extremely puzzling move.

So dumb. Easily the dumbest coach firing in recent memory.

MavzMan · 05-05-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Webber gained some new found respect. He didn't politick or sugarcoat it. Kudos

I used to really dislike Webber when he played and when he first start commentating. However, he has improved a ton and I also appreciated his unfiltered thoughts of what happened.

Although, I do think he does too much talking during the game. He seems to fill up every open second of space his partner is not talking.

Underdog · 05-05-2016, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Pacers fire Frank Vogel.... in what I would call an extremely puzzling move.

Yeah, are the Pacers even a playoff team without him? This move is definitely puzzling, especially with how weak the head coach market is this summer.

MavzMan · 05-05-2016, 01:25 PM

Technically, Vogel wasn't fired. His contract was up and Bird didn't renew it. I know the result is the same, but I do believe there is a difference ... at least in this case. Bird has said before that as a player, he didn't get more out of a coach after 3 or 4 years. Even when he coached the Pacers, he said he wasn't going to do it more than that. So I expect this was just bringing in new blood more than anything Vogel did or didn't do. There is zero doubt in my mind that Vogel will get another coaching spot before next season.

Underdog · 05-05-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Technically, Vogel wasn't fired. His contract was up and Bird didn't renew it. I know the result is the same, but I do believe there is a difference ... at least in this case. Bird has said before that as a player, he didn't get more out of a coach after 3 or 4 years. Even when he coached the Pacers, he said he wasn't going to do it more than that. So I expect this was just bringing in new blood more than anything Vogel did or didn't do. There is zero doubt in my mind that Vogel will get another coaching spot before next season.

Well, whoever gets Vogel is going to be doing a lot better than the Pacers... If Bird really thinks coaches only have a 3-4 years shelf life, then who the hell is going to want that job? Only a first-year coach, that's who... Good luck retaining your FAs!

MavzMan · 05-05-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, whoever gets Vogel is going to be doing a lot better than the Pacers... If Bird really thinks coaches only have a 3-4 years shelf life, then who the hell is going to want that job? Only a first-year coach, that's who... Good luck retaining your FAs!

Most coaches only sign a 3-5 year contract anyway, so nothing any different is being done here. In fact, Vogel has been with the Pacers for six years now, so who's to say that a change isn't truly warranted. Given they have a solid team, I expect there won't be a shortage of people lining up for the job. In fact, Bird was quoted just a few hours ago saying: “I don’t let my players come in and talk about the coach because that can get completely out of control.”

As far as free agents go, I have never seen or heard of one threatening to leave if the coach is not resigned. Coaches come, coaches go. Name of the business. Teams spend tens of millions on individual players, but hardly ever more than a few million in coaches.

Underdog · 05-05-2016, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Most coaches only sign a 3-5 year contract anyway, so nothing any different is being done here.

Good thing I don't have to disagree with you because I never said anything about a 3-5 year contract being any sort of an issue... It's not about the length of the contract, but the likelihood of getting a second one... I mean, wouldn't most seasoned coaches (you know, the ones better than Vogel) prefer at least the POSSIBILITY of sticking around for 5, 10, 20 years? Bird pretty much said that's not an option with his franchise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

In fact, Vogel has been with the Pacers for six years now, so who's to say that a change isn't truly warranted.

Bird decided he wanted to mimic GS and go small, but he never gave Vogel the right players to do it... You can't tell a coach to create a philosophical change and then not give them the personnel/time to achieve it -- trying to turn it all around in just 1 season is setting everyone up for failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Given they have a solid team, I expect there won't be a shortage of people lining up for the job.

Do they have a solid team, though? The Pacers appear to be a pretty mediocre collection of players who have been coached-up into a playoff squad, not unlike our current Mavericks.

There might be coaches lining up for that job, but none of them will be as good a Vogel... You're either looking at first-year coach, or one of the several washed-out coaches looking to steal more money for whichever team is foolish enough to give them a second/third chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

As far as free agents go, I have never seen or heard of one threatening to leave if the coach is not resigned.

I miscommunicated my point, let me elaborate -- free agents aren't going to walk because the coach left, they're going to walk because nobody wants to play for a team that's in constant rebuild mode (which they will continue to be if they think coaches should only have a 3-4 year shelf life...)

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-05-2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Good thing I don't have to disagree with you because I never said anything about a 3-5 year contract being any sort of an issue... It's not about the length of the contract, but the likelihood of getting a second one... I mean, wouldn't most seasoned coaches (you know, the ones better than Vogel) prefer at least the POSSIBILITY of sticking around for 5, 10, 20 years? Bird pretty much said that's not an option with his franchise.

Bird decided he wanted to mimic GS and go small, but he never gave Vogel the right players to do it... You can't tell a coach to create a philosophical change and then not give them the personnel/time to achieve it -- trying to turn it all around in just 1 season is setting everyone up for failure.

Do they have a solid team, though? The Pacers appear to be a pretty mediocre collection of players who have been coached-up into a playoff squad, not unlike our current Mavericks.

There might be coaches lining up for that job, but none of them will be as good a Vogel... You're either looking at first-year coach, or one of the several washed-out coaches looking to steal more money for whichever team is foolish enough to give them a second/third chance.

I miscommunicated my point, let me elaborate -- free agents aren't going to walk because the coach left, they're going to walk because nobody wants to play for a team that's in constant rebuild mode (which they will continue to be if they think coaches should only have a 3-4 year shelf life...)

On the other hand, we should thank Bird for giving us Carlisle.

TripleDipping · 05-06-2016, 09:01 AM

Random rant: 4-day break in between games 2 and 3 for Thunder/Spurs is stupid.

MavzMan · 05-06-2016, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

prefer at least the POSSIBILITY of sticking around for 5, 10, 20 years?

Sure, everyone would want a job with that kind of security but it's not even remotely realistic unless your name is Popovich or possibly Carlisle. I tried to find something more up to date, but here is a 2014 article after Mark Jackson was fired from GS showing that 4 out of 6 divisions have a coaching tenure of less than 2 years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/5/7...fired-warriors

Realistically, what is the coaching turnover rate in the NBA every year? At least 10% and sometimes 25%? This just isn't a profession with long tenures unless you consistently get to the Finals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Bird decided he wanted to mimic GS and go small ... trying to turn it all around in just 1 season is setting everyone up for failure.

Yes, I do agree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Do they have a solid team, though?

Actually, I do think they are a fairly solid team. Their star player Paul George just had a career year and just turned 26 and they have several players under contract for the next couple of years for a consistent roster. They should be able to add a player or two and still compete for a 2-4 spot in the East given time to gel as a team (reference your above statement).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

There might be coaches lining up for that job, but none of them will be as good a Vogel

Again, I would agree with this for the most part. I think Mark Jackson would be a great fit there and maybe one or two others. But yes, Vogel is a very good coach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

they're going to walk because nobody wants to play for a team that's in constant rebuild mode (which they will continue to be if they think coaches should only have a 3-4 year shelf life...)

If they were to hire Mark Jackson, they should still be a good draw for free agents. So far, it's been other players that seem to be the biggest difference. Again, George is coming off a career year, is 26 years old, and a true 2 way player unlike Harden. They have 10 players returning next year. The flip side is that it's still Indiana and not Miami or LA with a beach and nice weather.

Ultimately this boils down to Bird not renewing a contract after 6 years. It's his choice and I think we can agree that Bird is fairly basketball smart. He wants a change of blood/voice to yell at the players. Who's to say they don't keep everything Vogel instilled in them individually and then pick up new skills with another coach?

MavzMan · 05-06-2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleDipping

Random rant: 4-day break in between games 2 and 3 for Thunder/Spurs is stupid.

Serious advantage Spurs.
SAS - rest old bodies and ready for maximum output for game 3.
OKC - sit around over-thinking things too much and becoming over confident.

mac222b · 05-07-2016, 02:21 AM

Vogel is a really good coach. Either Bird has someone he wants in waiting or there is more going on than meets the eye. Contract issues, philosophic differences, etc.

dirt_dobber · 05-07-2016, 09:22 AM

Wow - can't believe that Memphis fired Joerger. He did a lot with a very injured riddled squad.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-07-2016, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Wow - can't believe that Memphis fired Joerger. He did a lot with a very injured riddled squad.

And who do Memphis and Indiana think they're going to get to coach these teams?

Memphis should have fired John Hollinger who hasn't done jack squat for that team.

dirt_dobber · 05-07-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And who do Memphis and Indiana think they're going to get to coach these teams?

Memphis should have fired John Hollinger who hasn't done jack squat for that team.

totally agree - Hollinger is a legend in his own mind.

dirt_dobber · 05-08-2016, 05:24 AM

Warriors FTA 17
Blazers FTA 29

Aminu had a nice game with 23 points, 10 reb, 1 blk,
and had this nice dunk
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/5/7/116...n-the-warriors

Thebo · 05-08-2016, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Wow - can't believe that Memphis fired Joerger. He did a lot with a very injured riddled squad.

If I am mistaken, then at least one year ago, Memphis' fans were not happy with Joerger also. Problem was that he was groomed by Hollins and essentially used the same system. Meaning that by Hollins gone, nothing actually changed, only the face.

I agree with the question that who else is available at all for Pacers and Grizzlies? Perhaps Pacers are going to find some young coach like Brad Stevens. Scott Brooks is good to teach youngsters but not to win titles.

It would be laughable for any of them to make a run at George Karl (I guess Pacers could do it since their system could fit well with Karl). But Jeff van Gundy may still be interested in coaching job. Either way it is intriguing to see how coaches are being fired left and right with no clear replacements.

BPo001 · 05-08-2016, 09:31 PM

OKC ties it up. Durant had a monster game. Tim Duncan held scoreless in the postseason for the first time in his career. Looks like we got a series on our hands!

MavzMan · 05-09-2016, 08:36 AM

Gotta give OKC credit, I did not see that happening.

And Tim Duncan finally ages. About damn time!

MavzMan · 05-09-2016, 08:47 AM

Question: Given Cleveland's 4-0 vs Detroit and 4-0 vs Atlanta this year, is Lebron's legacy being improved?

IMO: I don't give him any credit for these wins as he pretty much has a super team of himself, Kyrie, and Love against a still weaker eastern conference (again IMO). But it just seems like the Varsity squad beating up on the JV team and looks almost childish. His career numbers will be amazing when it's finished, but I just can't give him full credit for this.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-09-2016, 09:35 AM

Yeah, if Duncan has finally hit a wall, then I'm not sure the Spurs can recover. It's weird to think that the Spurs don't even have a legit center outside of Duncan.

Still, never underestimate Poppovich. Spurs will come back hard in game 5.

Thebo · 05-09-2016, 09:02 PM

Looks like Divac is still on track to bury the Kings. Hiring Joerger to discipline Cousins and perhaps Rondo. Will be fun to see, I really do not expect much out of that situation. Kings' fans are thinking that Joerger improves the team's defense... At the same time they have Rondo who is a candidate for Harden's Man of No Defense of the Year Award.

Rockets interviewing David Blatt. I guess NOBODY is interested in coaching Harden's team. I personally can not make up my mind who I want to see there, Kenny Smith or Mike D'Antoni. It would be really funny to see Mike no-D Antoni and Harden together. I doubt anyone but Blatt is considering Houston only for cash they provide.

But the list of available coaches that have been shown:
Sam Mitchell, Vinny Del Negro, Mike Woodson, David Blatt, Mark Jackson, Jeff Hornacek, Nate McMillan, Patrick Ewing, Elston Turner, Scott Brooks, Bickerstaff, Chris Finch, Sam Cassell, Mike D'Antoni, George Karl.

I am really surprised that nobody has still made a run at Mark Jackson.

Melonhead · 05-09-2016, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Wow - can't believe that Memphis fired Joerger. He did a lot with a very injured riddled squad.

Hes asked multiple times if its okay for him to interview for other coaching positions. Not to mention, he and the owners/GM never got along and didnt see eye to eye on certain things.

Melonhead · 05-09-2016, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Question: Given Cleveland's 4-0 vs Detroit and 4-0 vs Atlanta this year, is Lebron's legacy being improved?

IMO: I don't give him any credit for these wins as he pretty much has a super team of himself, Kyrie, and Love against a still weaker eastern conference (again IMO). But it just seems like the Varsity squad beating up on the JV team and looks almost childish. His career numbers will be amazing when it's finished, but I just can't give him full credit for this.

I mean didnt they do this last season? Ran through the east. They do look better this year though.