Nerlens Noel

[Underdog]

@tim_cato: Mark Cuban tells me it's "hard to say" whether 4-year, $70m deal would still have been on the table since Nerlens' camp never revisited it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The max offer thing needs to take a timeout. Unless Noel absolutely defies all expectations, then he won't be getting that sort of money next summer either.

I think something like 4/20 is what everyone should be aiming for, but there are just too many factors right now to worry about it.

Another big issue is if Noel has a great season, but the Mavericks still suck. Are you going to max a guy or pay him a ton when you win 30 games? This is why the Mavs didn't offer him the max to begin with. Not everything has to do with Noel. Making large, long term financial commitments during a rebuild need to be carefully thought out and planned for. I want a young, core building center as much as anyone, but if he has a 10/8/1.5 season.......

Then, yeah, you let him walk... But Noel is obviously playing for max, so it's not unrealistic to talk about the possibility. Taking the QO is a probably win-win because it gives him another chance to earn it, but doesn't keep the Mavs on the hook for big money (even $17m) if he doesn't.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Scenario 1: Mavs trade Noel, wash our hands of him this season.

Scenario 2: Noel underperforms or gets injured, signs for whatever he can get next summer (I imagine we'd make the same 4/70 offer if we decided to keep him).

Scenario 3: Noel balls out of his mind, earns a max offer, signs with another team next summer, makes Mark Cuban look like a bitch.

Scenario 4: Noel balls out of his mind, earns a max offer, signs with Dallas next summer (who can go over the cap to re-sign him, allowing enough money to sign another max FA), makes Mark Cuban look like a genius.


Obviously the best-case scenario for everyone is #4... If Noel plays well enough to EARN max, then the Mavs can convince him to stick around with (up to) a supermax 5/125 contract, which is more than any other team can offer... And obviously the Mavs are only doing that if he stays healthy and plays like a borderline All-Star... But his Bird Rights allow us to go over the cap to re-sign him -- that means we'd have space to take a stab at one of those big-name FAs hitting the market next summer, which a balling-out-of-his-mind Noel might be able to lure (and if Barnes takes another step and DSJ pushes for RoY, you can basically fire up those LeBron-to-Dallas rumors, LOL...)

Of course this is all up to Noel realizing his potential, staying healthy, AND deciding to stick around in Dallas... The kid is betting on himself, but he's also holding the future of the franchise in his hands.

.

[sefant77]

I think no way scenario 3 happens. Beside the 5th year the Mavs can also offer bigger raises. There is also no income tax. Every other team with no income tax is either way over cap or has their own center longterm under contract. So our offer even if its the same money is always better. And Noel took the risk now to get the most money next season. He is not leaving for a team that offers him less...

There is just these ways i can see Noel not re-signing with us:
- he gets injuried and the Mavs prefer to move in a different more save direction at center
- he pulls a Rondo and clashed with Rick (then: good riddance)
- he plays a meh season but someone else waaay overpays him
- at draft night a cant miss center prospect falls into our lap and we decide to spend Noels money at a different position


And Lebron isnt happening. The Lakers have two max cap slots next season. He is going there. And the 2nd guy isnt someone like Noel, Lebron would recruit a waaay bigger name

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Twitter is saying Noel signs QO and the 17m "offer" was non existent.

My summer depression has turned into full season depression knowing Noel is gone next year.

How do you know something that hasn't happened and probably won't happen?

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Underdog

.

5. Cuban goes after Cousins.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

5. Cuban goes after Cousins.

To replace Dirk at PF

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

5. Cuban goes after Cousins.

Originally Posted by sefant77

To replace Dirk at PF

Yeah, still option #4 if Cousins is a PF.

[NeedlesKane]

This is awful news. The floor is set to 90% of the salary cap, which is $89.184 million. I wonder where we are as things stand.

If Dirk gets paid $5 million then 14 players, including Devin Harris and DFS, amount to $84,673,434.

Brandon Ashley, Gian Clavell, PJ Dozier, Johnathan Motley, Maalik Wayns, and Jeff Withey have all signed partially guaranteed, two-way, or other kind of deals in which we are awaiting details. I'm sure that their contracts count towards the cap, and Jeff Withey could potentially be getting paid far too well for coming to Dallas. Otherwise the players are all getting some kind of bonus as a penalty for the Mavericks underspending.

[walter]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

This is awful news. The floor is set to 90% of the salary cap, which is $89.184 million. I wonder where we are as things stand.

If Dirk gets paid $5 million then 14 players, including Devin Harris and DFS, amount to $84,673,434.

Brandon Ashley, Gian Clavell, PJ Dozier, Johnathan Motley, Maalik Wayns, and Jeff Withey have all signed partially guaranteed, two-way, or other kind of deals in which we are awaiting details. I'm sure that their contracts count towards the cap, and Jeff Withey could potentially be getting paid far too well for coming to Dallas. Otherwise the players are all getting some kind of bonus as a penalty for the Mavericks underspending.

Is that a bad thing? I don't think it really matters who is getting the money right? Maybe the other players will vote to give most of that bonus to Dirk considering how underpaid he'll be this year.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

How do you know something that hasn't happened and probably won't happen?

Because the mavs always find themselves in these odd FA positions and usually get left with the egg on their head. I dont see how this works out for the Mavs. We suck at free agency.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Because the mavs always find themselves in these odd FA positions and usually get left with the egg on their head. I dont see how this works out for the Mavs. We suck at free agency.

as only team we can offer a 5th year
as only team we can offer bigger raises
there is no other team with no income tax that is under the cap or has a need at the center position

after taking the QO, Noel is going after the biggest pay check next summer. We can offer the most. So if we like him enough, he stays anyway.

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by walter

Is that a bad thing? I don't think it really matters who is getting the money right? Maybe the other players will vote to give most of that bonus to Dirk considering how underpaid he'll be this year.

I just hate how we had a lot of money to spend but have not found a way to spend it. That's what makes it a bad thing to me. Players don't seem to want our money or something else may be going on that I am unaware.

Also there's talk about the Mavericks having the MLE available to spend at $8.5 million. However, they should have more to spend than that with the salary cap space. I'm confused there unless we actually spent it all on the players we've signed.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by walter

Is that a bad thing? I don't think it really matters who is getting the money right? Maybe the other players will vote to give most of that bonus to Dirk considering how underpaid he'll be this year.

Yes because dirk is always taking less for the mavs to screw it up. This is why Im always on players side.

[sefant77]

The Mavs didnt screw anything up.

Offering a 9PPG/7RPG/22min guy "just" 4/70 with no one else bidding isnt screwing up.

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Yes because dirk is always taking less for the mavs to screw it up. This is why Im always on players side.

What do you expect from this lineup? I feel like we have a serious lack of NBA talent with only 5 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounders, with the rest going undrafted.

[Underdog]

@townbrad: Why summer business between Mavericks, Nerlens Noel could create season-long distraction https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...ng-distraction

@townbrad: Also, Noel's mom, Dorcina, planned to move to Dallas but now tells me: "I don't think I'm going to move there for one year."

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@townbrad: Why summer business between Mavericks, Nerlens Noel could create season-long distraction https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...ng-distraction

@townbrad: Also, Noel's mom, Dorcina, planned to move to Dallas but now tells me: "I don't think I'm going to move there for one year."

All of this tit for tat nonsense is moot until next summer.

[Melonhead]

Anyone thinking Noel is returning next year is wearing Mavs colored frames.
Even his mom said she's not moving to dallas anymore. And said I don't need to move there for one year.

[EricaLubarsky]

So he's going to play out of his mind like Dampier this season and that's a negative?

[Underdog]

@coopmavs: NN wanted $22m (Not max but close) would have settled for 20m

[EricaLubarsky]

Sorry, you don't give the 30th best center in terms of stats with a significant injury history 20 mill

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@coopmavs: NN wanted $22m (Not max but close) would have settled for 20m

Once again, this is all conjecture at this point. Pretty much every report said NN wanted the max but now he would have settled for 20? I don't buy it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Once again, this is all conjecture at this point. Pretty much every report said NN wanted the max but now he would have settled for 20? I don't buy it.

The number comes from Noel's mom:

“He told me two weeks ago he’s willing to sign for four years with Dallas, but they’re not giving him much money for four years,” Dorcina said. “He told me he was asking for about $22 million a year, but Dallas refused to give it to him."

“He told me, ‘If Dallas gives me $20 million, I’m going to be there because they love me there. I said, ‘Yeah, I love it there, too.'” Dorcina told Townsend on the phone.

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2017/08/...lion-per-year/

[sefant77]

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2017/8...ustrating-argh

what a suck ass clickbait article.

Yeah sure Noel gives up 14m next year and then with his next contract another few millions because he signs the max with someone lese despite our bigger raises and no income tax because he is butthurt. And his butthurt is him worth another few millions

6. Noel can now “earn” his max deal and go to a team that won’t jack around with him, in his mind. In the NBA, the player is always right.

If a player is really good, they get paid. That’s how it works. If you don’t think Noel is good because he didn’t average 10 points per game or didn’t cross the threshold of whatever other arbitrary and archaic stat you wanted, go sniff farts somewhere else.

Now Noel will be unrestricted and free to sign with whatever team he wants to. A ton of leverage from the Mavs side is lost. While the market isn’t getting any better next summer as teams twiddle their thumbs in the timeout corner after handing out some albatross contracts in the spending bonanza of 2016, Noel should be a lot more desirable after he (should) tear it up this season. Or how about this juicy theory since Noel now shares agents with LeBron James:

While there’s always a chance Noel returns since the Mavericks can offer him the most money, we’ve already seen the Mavericks shun away free agents due to not properly valuing them in the first place. If Noel’s pride is hurt that the Mavericks wouldn’t pay up, that’s obviously a petty thing to do but that doesn’t make the Mavericks any better. It’s not your money anyway. I’d rather be dumb and have good players than be the Mavericks version of smart and have less good players.

[sefant77]

Ah and Skins Lebron theory is bs too. If Lebron leaves and chooses the Lakers, HE recruits for the 2nd max cap slot a whole other caliber player than Noel. George, Cousins, Westbrook etc etc

At btw california has like what, 12% income tax? Going back to Noel losing again millions just with the tax difference

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2017/8...ustrating-argh

what a suck ass clickbait article.

Yeah sure Noel gives up 14m next year and then with his next contract another few millions because he signs the max with someone lese despite our bigger raises and no income tax because he is butthurt. And his butthurt is him worth another few millions

Yeah, I saw Josh Bowes's butthurt rants on Twitter -- dude is acting like we just let Steve Nash walk again.

There's no telling what Noel will do next summer, but how we should feel about it really depends on how this season plays out... If he walks, we might be losing a quality big man -- but we could just as easily be sighing in relief for dodging a bullet (a la Parsons). And between Rick Carlisle's continued development of him and the fact that Dallas can pay him more than other teams, there's still a decent chance he comes back. To get emotional about it RIGHT NOW just doesn't make any sense.

[Underdog]

Here's an outside perspective from someone who doesn't cover the Mavs exclusively:

Nerlens Noel blew it. What's next for his NBA career? https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/27/1...future-blew-it

[Melonhead]

I think josh bowe's article sums up my feelings thoroughly on the matter.

[sefant77]

Yeah and if everything works out fine and Noel has a killer season: he is back with us. On his demanded max contract.

He is not leaving after giving up 14m this year and gives up another 10+m in cash (smaller raises and income tax) and a fifth contract year just to play with fucking Lebron (who probably sees him as FA option Nr. 9 or 10) because he is butthurt...

If he sucks/is injuried again we dodged a bullet
If he is great we re-sign him for 20+ or max and the only bad thing is that we didnt get him for a 4/70 discount deal

[Underdog]

Yeah, I just don't get the LeBron/LA connection when DeMarcus Cousins (3x All-Star) and DeAndra Jordan (1x All-Star) are going to be on the market for the same money... Noel is nothing but potential at this point.

[EricaLubarsky]

My prediction is that he plays out of his mind for 20 games, averaging 15-12-2-2 for a stretch helped by the rook

And also misses 25+ of the last 40 games because of injury

Tests the market and still doesn't get an offer above 18 next season

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I just don't get the LeBron/LA connection when DeMarcus Cousins (3x All-Star) and DeAndra Jordan (1x All-Star) are going to be on the market for the same money... Noel is nothing but potential at this point.

Or Paul George...who has allready strong ties to LA and Magic having tampering charges on his ass.

Or ask UCLA westbrook if he wants to join him to kick Durants ass

Or Cousins...

Or...

Yeah but sure he will ask "best case Tyson Chandler light" to join him on a 20m contract. Because they have the same agent.

Ball
Ingram
George
James
XY

If Ingram has a nice season they can pack him with Clarkson or Deng for an unhappy allstar....

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The number comes from Noel's mom:



https://thesmokingcuban.com/2017/08/...lion-per-year/

It's still all he said, she said at this point. And even if that is true, you don't negotiate from 17.5 to 22 in hopes of getting 20. It doesn't work like that.

[j0Shi]

I think Bowe puts to much emphasis on "injury" in his article and too less on "impact". It's not even that Noel can't blow up the boxscore, but these type of big men simply aren't as valueable any longer in today's NBA imho. If he could develop a 3-point shot, we would have a completely different discussion. Also people tend to shout "TYSON ALL OVER AGAIN" way too soon. Completely different situations. Ty was a champion, Noel is a baby.

As Ziller rightfully mentioned, Noel might not even crack 30 minutes this season on average due to lineups. And I don't care how great Noel is himself or in combination with Barnes or DSJ, you can't max a guy that can't theoretically give you 37+ productive minutes on any given night no matter the matchup.

I personally don't like that we missed the opportunity to sign him to a multi-year contract, but the Mavs certainly haven't made a mistake here. The blame is on Noel.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sefant77

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2017/8...ustrating-argh

what a suck ass clickbait article.

Yeah sure Noel gives up 14m next year and then with his next contract another few millions because he signs the max with someone lese despite our bigger raises and no income tax because he is butthurt. And his butthurt is him worth another few millions

That guy isn't a writer. He is a guy that posts borderline insane tweets to get reactions.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

My prediction is that he plays out of his mind for 20 games, averaging 15-12-2-2 for a stretch helped by the rook

And also misses 25+ of the last 40 games because of injury

Tests the market and still doesn't get an offer above 18 next season

I tend to agree but Noel has to play well and stay healthy the entire season in order to get paid handsomely next off-season....pure plain and simple. If he even fakes an injury it will cost him dearly because he'll essentially prove what every GM fears.....that he can't stay healthy. If he doesn't elevate his game to the next level in Carlisle's system it will indicate he is at or near his ceiling which isn't anywhere near max level.

Mavs are completely in the driver's seat on this one and Cuban paying him anywhere near 20mil under the circumstances would be irresponsible and stupid on his part imo.

[mac222b]

This is actually best case scenario for us. Can't believe he turned down 17m per. He should've snatched up anything close to 15. He'll likely never make that money back

[spreedom]

I'm not shocked but I'm extremely disappointed they didn't get a deal done. I'd estimate about an 80% chance he's gone after this season. And we'll be left with cap space and nobody to pay with it. FML

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I'm not shocked but I'm extremely disappointed they didn't get a deal done. I'd estimate about an 80% chance he's gone after this season. And we'll be left with cap space and nobody to pay with it. FML

No one to pay, but lots of flexibility to receive salary/ picks in a dump. Plus Noel's smaller cap hold gives us a lot of flexibility in the offseason. All in all Mavs got the better end of the deal.