2020-2021 Season thread - Page 18 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgfan

But, was there ever any chance of the Mavs getting Fournier?

Considering it was the cost of just two 2nd round picks I think they had a good chance.

But I said this earlier before the deadline that Dallas would probably fall in love with Redick and claim that was the best target for this roster.

I mean we call speculate what the Mavs could offer and what teams wuld actually take from the Mavs but when you look at some these deals and what it took to get done this tells me the Mavs were just content as Donnie said with their top rotation players being very good.

Well it doesn't matter anymore they aren't beating Denver, La Clippers or Utah now anyways

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 02:45 PM

Mavs are the masters of winning trades, no matter how small.

Is this on par with getting Vuc? DEfinitely not, but we had no first rounders to even pull a big trade like that.

Did we win this one? Most definitely. Redick is a sharpshooter and a strong veteran who expires just like Johnson. I can see him playing some minutes like Walt the Wizard. Melli probably won't be anything, but Johnson wasn't playing and Iwundu was borderline 15th man.

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Just want to take a min aside from Mavs to lol at the Rockets. Didn't they trade Lavert, who is on a friendly contract, for Oladpio who they have turned into Olynyk and Bradley?

Rockets deserve all the crap they get.

I just feel sorry for Christian Wood. Seems like a good guy and he's stuck with the Rockets.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-25-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Considering it was the cost of just two 2nd round picks I think they had a good chance.

But I said this earlier before the deadline that Dallas would probably fall in love with Redick and claim that was the best target for this roster.

I mean we call speculate what the Mavs could offer and what teams wuld actually take from the Mavs but when you look at some these deals and what it took to get done this tells me the Mavs were just content as Donnie said with their top rotation players being very good.

Once again though, will you please at least be consistent and apply it to all the other teams who didn't get Fournier or Oladipo for those ridiculously lowball offers?

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Because we need a three point specialist- which Redick still is-, not an inefficient volume scorer who can no longer defend. That's why.

EDIT: For the record, I am NOT arguing that Redick is a better player than Oladipo.

You said Dipo was washed though. How is Reddick not washed?

tap2390 · 03-25-2021, 02:48 PM

Evan Fournier never made any sense for the Mavs. We trade assets for him and then what? We resign him, THJ, and JRich to long terms deal in the same offseason? That's not a championship roster.

Oladipo never made sense either. We trade for him just to watch him walk to Miami? It's no secret that is where he wants to be.

You know what does make sense? Trading next to nothing for a veteran three point specialist known to be a strong locker room presence.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wonder if we see anything in Melli or if he's just a throw-in?

Nothing wagered and potentially something gained.

I like Redick as a veteran who can be a flamethrower. His 3pt shooting is down this year, but also the spacing on the Pelicans is trash. Redick is a career 42% shooter.

I don't get it though. We had Seth Curry......we shipped him out...so now we do want one dimensional offensive players?

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Just want to take a min aside from Mavs to lol at the Rockets. Didn't they trade Lavert, who is on a friendly contract, for Oladpio who they have turned into Olynyk and Bradley?

Yeah that reminds me....why not just keep Levert? I get the health scare he had but I don't think Houston or anyone knew about it prior to the trade.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

People, Oladipo made it clear he's going to sign with Miami. If you're going to complain about the Mavs not getting him when the Heat got him for Bradley and Olynyk, please first ask yourself how come of the 28 other teams in the league, nobody else put up a better offer either. Is it JUST the Mavs who like their team so much????

I'd take half a year of Dipo for expiring contracts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I posted Donnie's comments in the trade thread

He literally said that the Mavs were content with their top 11 players and unless they could get a star player they weren't moving anyone

So basically Fournier and Oladipo wasn't better than anyone on the roster who he considers apart that top 11 I guess

SMH....this organization needs another voice in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

"We like our team".

Yeah....that seems to run rapid through Dallas. That's Jerry and Stephen Jones favorite saying too.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-25-2021, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't get it though. We had Seth Curry......we shipped him out...so now we do want one dimensional offensive players?

Seth doesn't have a great podcast like Redick!

Jokes aside I like Redick. I liked the Seth for Jrich trade even if it hasn't turned out like we hoped so far.

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Because we need a three point specialist- which Redick still is-, not an inefficient volume scorer who can no longer defend. That's why.

EDIT: For the record, I am NOT arguing that Redick is a better player than Oladipo.

If that's the case and they needed a 3-point specialist then why not go in on Founier as opposed to Redick?

Hell Founier would have been a better option and capable starter quality player.

It's not that they got Redick it's that based on what was given for Fournier the Mavs could have had a better more complete player

I don't think some fans are understanding this at all

Redick is just adding on top of Burke is he really that much better than Burke at this stage of their career's?

Now if you say hey I think Redick is a better player than Founier than cool I won't argue your opinion even though I might not agree with it.

tap2390 · 03-25-2021, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't get it though. We had Seth Curry......we shipped him out...so now we do want one dimensional offensive players?

We got a starting two-way wing for Curry when we needed more length and defense. We got Redick for next to nothing when we needed more shooting. Both deals make perfect sense.

FreshJive · 03-25-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Mavs wouldn't have offered Tim Hardaway and a draft pick for Oladipo?

Apparently no one offered a pick. They only got a draft swap from Miami. Teams must have been convinced that he was walking to Miami in the offseason.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:55 PM

Miami expected to sign Lamarcus Aldridge....good for them. What a amazing come back to relevance after losing Bosh, Wade and LeBron. Took a little time but with some solid trades and drafts....Heat are back at it and didn't need a 1st overall pick to do it.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

We got a starting two-way wing for Curry when we needed more length and defense. We got Redick for next to nothing when we needed more shooting. Both deals make perfect sense.

It doesn't make sense in what this team is trying to accomplish. Especially with Reddick's age but I guess this is what the Mavs are doing. Just put anyone around Luka. Nevermind building a actual team.

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 02:56 PM

I wonder if we can get anything out of Melli.

Dude is already 30, despite being in only his second year in the league, but at least in Europe, had a few seasons shooting 43%+ from three-- even had a season shooting 45%

My guess? He doesn't do anything and we let him expire. Maybe we re-sign Redick to a vet deal for a couple more years to be a player/coach.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-25-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

You said Dipo was washed though. How is Reddick not washed?

Because I only expect Redick to play a handful of minutes and shoot a few threes off the bench. He can still do that.

Oladipo is a guy who always thought he was better than he was even at his peak, and he's FAR from his peak. He's basically an empty stats guy at this point. He scores very inefficiently and gives you almost nothing on defense. He can't defend and can't shoot threes, precisely the two things we need. So I always thought he was lousy fit for the Mavs. I was very "meh" on him as a potential target for the Mavs since day 1, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

Now would I take him for a bag of chips like what Miami gave up for him. Sure. But again, this is like the Celts getting Fournier. So yes, its frustrating to see they got him for so little when we could theoretically outbid that easily. But considering that anyone of 28 other teams could also outbid those offers, it's more just strange than anything else. With Dipo the only thing that makes sense is that nobody gave a serious offer because he's made it abundantly clear how much he wants Miami and nobody else. The Fournier thing is just weird.

So it's fine to be frustrated, but I think at the very least it seems unfair to single out the Mavs like, "lol we love our boys in blue," when we're in the same boat as every other team.

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Seth doesn't have a great podcast like Redick!

Jokes aside I like Redick. I liked the Seth for Jrich trade even if it hasn't turned out like we hoped so far.

I'm beat a dead horse here

But again I'm still baffled as to why they would settle for Redick when Founier went for peanuts.

Fournier is a better player than Redick and Curry plus he's 6'7 and can handle the ball more.

This just makes absolutely no sense at all to me if you were just targeting a shooter to add to your rotation.

And again someone will try to put a spin on this as to why Redick was attainable and Fournier wasn't for the Mavs.

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't get it though. We had Seth Curry......we shipped him out...so now we do want one dimensional offensive players?

This comment confuses me. I agree that Curry and Redick are similar players, but after that I am just puzzled.

We traded a one-dimensional guy, because we needed a two-dimensional guy who could start for us. We got that in Richardson.

Then we traded beans to get another Seth Curry-type so now we have both a two-way starter and a sharpshooter who can come off the bench.

Those two trades make a lot of sense to me.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Apparently no one offered a pick. They only got a draft swap from Miami. Teams must have been convinced that he was walking to Miami in the offseason.

Oh for sure he is. At least that's what I thought was reported.

All I'm saying is Raptors traded Demar Derozan for a one year rental of Kawhi and it was worth it. If they wanted Tim Hardaway and a 2nd round pick for a half year rental of Dipo...I wouldn't have been upset. I didn't really trade much to do it.

Scoobay · 03-25-2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

We got a starting two-way wing for Curry when we needed more length and defense. We got Redick for next to nothing when we needed more shooting. Both deals make perfect sense.

right - it was not a Curry for Redick trade

Jrich has been showing signs of stepping things up - it'd be nice to give him more time to gel with the team and he seems to have a good relationship with Luka

redick is a career 41-42% 3pt shooter - i think he's going to be more valuable than JJ/Iwundu have been this season. I'd be more than happy to throw Green or Bey in there if we really want someone to mix it up and go hard on defense.

Melonhead · 03-25-2021, 03:00 PM

What a mess.

Teams higher in the west got better (denver/portland)

Mavs get Redick. Very much a shrug move that may or may not make a difference down the stretch. Dudes 37 years old and wont help the defense/rebounding.

They will stay the 7 seed either way. Im more or less over the fact that the FO low key sucks. Just do enough in the long run to keep Luka please.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-25-2021, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'd take half a year of Dipo for expiring contracts.

I probably would too, but once again, how come NOBODY else made that same offer?

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

This comment confuses me.

We traded a one-dimensional guy, because we needed a two-dimensional guy who could start for us. We got that.

Then we traded beans to get another Seth curry so now we have both a two-way starter and a sharpshooter.

Why doesn't that make sense?

Because if you needed a two dimensional guy who could star then you could've signed one and kept Curry if that's what you coveted. And if you wanted a "sharpshooter" that is what Curry truly was. But if you wanted a sharpshooter you would've aimed higher than JJ Redick who's shooting 36% from 3 and in his mid 30's......

Anyone serious about winning is not coming to a trade deadline and trading for JJ Reddick. I'm sorry.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I probably would too, but once again, how come NOBODY else made that same offer?

Man I have no idea. I'm at a loss of words. I don't get why nobody offered more than two 2nd's for Fournier. I don't get how Gordon got traded for what he did. I don't get why Blazers got Norman Powell for Gary Trent Jr. Vuc got traded for Wendell Carter and Porter....

Its like it was a buyers market. If you were selling you got screwed over essentially.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

What a mess.

Teams higher in the west got better (denver/portland)

Mavs get Redick. Very much a shrug move that may or may not make a difference down the stretch. Dudes 37 years old and wont help the defense/rebounding.

They will stay the 7 seed either way. Im more or less over the fact that the FO low key sucks. Just do enough in the long run to keep Luka please.

And if he can't rebound or play defense...how much playing time do we expect for Carlisle to give him?

Thespiralgoeson · 03-25-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm beat a dead horse here

But again I'm still baffled as to why they would settle for Redick when Founier went for peanuts.

Fournier is a better player than Redick and Curry plus he's 6'7 and can handle the ball more.

This just makes absolutely no sense at all to me if you were just targeting a shooter to add to your rotation.

And again someone will try to put a spin on this as to why Redick was attainable and Fournier wasn't for the Mavs.

For the record, I would much rather have Fournier than Redick, and it is frustrating that we didn't get him when the Celts got him for so much less.

But I'll ask you for like the fourth time, will you apply that same criticism to all the other teams who didn't offer more than 2 second round picks? Same for everyone who didn't offer more than what Miami got for Oladipo?

Deals that like that just happen sometimes, and it's just weird. I don't know why Miami and Orlando made those deals. It seems to me like they could have gotten better offers from like 15-20 other teams.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Seth doesn't have a great podcast like Redick!

Jokes aside I like Redick. I liked the Seth for Jrich trade even if it hasn't turned out like we hoped so far.

Very good point! He does have a great podcast lol.....

And I don't regret the J Rich trade. I'm more so disagreeing with the notion this team needed a "sharpshooter" like Reddick. We need a sharp shooter who can defend yes. A guy who can give us 25 minutes a game doing both. That is not Reddick.

FreshJive · 03-25-2021, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm beat a dead horse here

But again I'm still baffled as to why they would settle for Redick when Founier went for peanuts.

Fournier is a better player than Redick and Curry plus he's 6'7 and can handle the ball more.

This just makes absolutely no sense at all to me if you were just targeting a shooter to add to your rotation.

And again someone will try to put a spin on this as to why Redick was attainable and Fournier wasn't for the Mavs.

Reddick was more attainable than Fournier. That’s not spin. I’d much rather have Fournier, but JJ and one second round pick doesn’t beat the celts offer.

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Because if you needed a two dimensional guy who could star then you could've signed one and kept Curry if that's what you coveted. And if you wanted a "sharpshooter" that is what Curry truly was. But if you wanted a sharpshooter you would've aimed higher than JJ Redick who's shooting 36% from 3 and in his mid 30's......

Anyone serious about winning is not coming to a trade deadline and trading for JJ Reddick. I'm sorry.

I'm not even sure how to respond to you.

1) Redick is a career 42% shooter from three. He's only shooting so poorly in New Orleans where they are playing him in the wrong role and have no spacing. For us he will be the KVH/Williams type who comes in to wreck teams in short spurts.

2) Also who do we sign with all that money we had and in such a poor free agency? We had literally ZERO cap room to sign people last year and who was even available? Please tell me who was available we could have signed for the veteran minimum. Source: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/cap/2019/

With your plan we end up with only Curry. The Mavs' plan got them a two-way starter AND a sparkplug shooter, even if you think that Redick is inferior (and I tend to agree)

Also in March: Richardson 37.0%. Curry 37.8%. Redick 44.4%

Thespiralgoeson · 03-25-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Because if you needed a two dimensional guy who could star then you could've signed one and kept Curry if that's what you coveted. And if you wanted a "sharpshooter" that is what Curry truly was. But if you wanted a sharpshooter you would've aimed higher than JJ Redick who's shooting 36% from 3 and in his mid 30's......

This doesn't make sense. The Mavs needed a guy like Richardson and could not have just "signed one." Not one better anyway. I don't remember who all was available for the MLE, but I'm pretty sure there was nobody who fit the Mavs immediate needs better than Richardson. The Mavs plainly won that deal. Like, it's not even close. It seemed otherwise early on when we were the worst 3pt shooting team and Richardson was floundering, but he has totally flipped the script and looks like exactly the versatile wingman we needed.

Quote:

Anyone serious about winning is not coming to a trade deadline and trading for JJ Reddick. I'm sorry.

I don't think Donnie Nelson or anyone else is under the delusion that JJ Redick is going to be the difference between being a 7th seed and being a championship contender. He does fit a need though, so he does make the team a little better, and might make the difference between being a 7th seed and being a 6th or a 5th. Considering we gave up basically nothing for him, I'll take it.

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

And if he can't rebound or play defense...how much playing time do we expect for Carlisle to give him?

I'm pretty sure despite his defense and rebounding he's going to play in Dallas.

I just hate the fit of having Redick and Brunson on the floor together which is a strong possibility and in playoff games.

I just don't like the small ball lineups that these moves allow us to use year after year knowing damn well we can't matchup using those lineups in the playoffs.

I hated it last year with Curry, THJ and Burke being thrown out there often together at times and getting caught having to defend Leonard or George on switches.

And I hate it even more this year now with Redick thrown into the mix.

EricaLubarsky · 03-25-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Very good point! He does have a great podcast lol.....

And I don't regret the J Rich trade. I'm more so disagreeing with the notion this team needed a "sharpshooter" like Reddick. We need a sharp shooter who can defend yes. A guy who can give us 25 minutes a game doing both. That is not Reddick.

Richardson is shooting 37% in March. Curry shot 37.8%. Redick shot 44.4% and Richardson has eclipsed Curry in TS% while providing way better defense and starter minutes.

I'm not sure how you can hate on the Richardson trade while literally saying that we need a defender.

Mavs traded Curry (a sharpshooter who couldn't defend) and still ended up with a two-way starter AND a sharpshooter (Redick)

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'm not even sure how to respond to you.

1) Redick is a career 42% shooter from three. He's only shooting so poorly in New Orleans where they are playing him in the wrong role and have no spacing. For us he will be the KVH/Williams type who comes in to wreck teams in short spurts.

2) Also who do we sign with all that money we had and in such a poor free agency? We had literally ZERO cap room to sign people last year and who was even available? https://www.spotrac.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/cap/2019/

With your plan we end up with only Curry. The Mavs' plan got them a starter and a sparkplug shooter, even if you think that Redick is inferior (and I tend to agree that curry is a bit better-- at least on his shooting. Redick is the better vet with a sharper competitive edge)

Also Curry in the last two months is shooting in the 30s from three as well.

I'm not advocating not trading Curry. Even with Richardson's struggles I'd still trade for him because he's a bigger body and can defend. I was well aware of his shooting woes at times in past locations and still wanted him.

I'm simply going against what you're saying that we needed a "sharpshooter". If we needed one why did we trade Curry? We didn't need one. There are shooters everywhere. Hell we have shooters on the roster right now who can't even get meaningful playing time.

And Reddick will meet the same fate. He will come in and get about 15 minutes a game and get his 5 3 point attempts a game but in the scheme of things it means nothing.

We basically traded for guys who were going to get bought out anyway.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-25-2021, 03:17 PM

I personally think Mavs value Redick's playoff experience more than anything. He's been in over 100 playoff games. Faced virtually every situation there is. Fournier is a better offensive player right now than Redick but if he can shoot 3's at a high % and provide vet leadership in the playoffs based on experience then that's fine for what we gave up.

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 03:17 PM

Still waiting for someone to answer why Redick as opposed to Fournier

What do you think the Mavs logic was behind this trade deadline?

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Richardson is shooting 37% in March (Curry is only 37.8%) and Richardson has eclipsed Curry in TS% while providing way better defense and starter minutes.

I'm not sure how you can hate on the Richardson trade while literally saying that we need a defender.

Mavs traded Curry (a sharpshooter who couldn't defend) and still ended up with a two-way starter AND a sharpshooter (Redick)

You just quoted a post where I said verbatim "I don't regret the Richardson trade". This has nothing to do with Richardson. Mind you, Curry has been hurt but that's neither here nor there. I'm not for not trading for Richardson. What I'm saying is you are saying we "needed" a sharpshooter. So its a success. We need far more than that.

This isn't a worry for you guys now because I think everyone can't imagine Luka leaving Dallas because of how loyal Dirk was. But Luka is not going to sit around like Did did later on in his career and watch players get dealt and traded while we trade for guys like Trey Lyles and JJ Reddick.

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Still waiting for someone to answer why Redick as opposed to Fournier

What do you think the Mavs logic was behind this trade deadline?

I'll give you logic....Mavs probably valued that "2nd round pick" lol. Its silly logic I know but I honestly think this is what they are doing.

Dallas41 · 03-25-2021, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I personally think Mavs value Redick's playoff experience more than anything. He's been in over 100 playoff games. Faced virtually every situation there is. Fournier is a better offensive player right now than Redick but if he can shoot 3's at a high % and provide vet leadership in the playoffs based on experience then that's fine for what we gave up.

Ok but Fournier is a guy capable of being a 3rd or 4th option when shots aren't falling for Luka or KP.

He's 6'7 and can handle the ball as a secondary playmaker as well.

The dude shoots 38% from 3 so that is not much drop off from Redick right?

You can play him longer stretches of minutes in the playoffs to

I just don't see the advantage for Redick over him other than the Mavs already had their minds made up it was Redick as the target

Yes both guys went for peanuts but Fournier is by far the better player who went for those peanuts

Dtownsfinest · 03-25-2021, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm pretty sure despite his defense and rebounding he's going to play in Dallas.

I just hate the fit of having Redick and Brunson on the floor together which is a strong possibility and in playoff games.

I just don't like the small ball lineups that these moves allow us to use year after year knowing damn well we can't matchup using those lineups in the playoffs.

I hated it last year with Curry, THJ and Burke being thrown out there often together at times and getting caught having to defend Leonard or George on switches.

And I hate it even more this year now with Redick thrown into the mix.

Sure he will play 15 minutes a game.