Official offseason 2013-2014 thread - Page 18 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirk's Knee · 05-03-2013, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Speaking of Jack....still don't think he is worth 4/40? The guy was basically the second best player on a team that pulled a big upset against a team that won 57 games.

I would say it depends on what other options are out there. We have to fill 3 starting spots as it stands. IMHO, the lion's share would go to the center, then PG, then SG, and then bench. Another wrench is we have to resign Wright. Now, if we just can't get a free agent center worth spit, then you roll out Sarge and focus the PG. But given the lack of young talent on the Mavs roster, I do not think big money on a 30 year old PG is a good idea. If we had a solid PG in the wings, I'd be much more willing to over pay to get him.

oilfieldtrash · 05-03-2013, 10:51 AM

I don't see GS paying Jack. They have the most dynamic scoring pg in the league. I just can't see them paying a premium for a 29 year old sixth man.

And I'd laugh and walk out of the room if I was Cuban and Jack's camp wanted 4/40

Dirk's Knee · 05-03-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I don't see GS paying Jack. They have the most dynamic scoring pg in the league. I just can't see them paying a premium for a 29 year old sixth man.

And I'd laugh and walk out of the room if I was Cuban and Jack's camp wanted 4/40

They absolutely will if they make it past the second round (or even if it's a deep second round run) and Jack plays like he did in the first. Though that's a long shot. I'm more apt to believe his first round performance was due to favorable matchups and he'll fall back down to Earth vs SA.

oilfieldtrash · 05-03-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

They absolutely will if they make it past the second round (or even if it's a deep second round run) and Jack plays like he did in the first. Though that's a long shot. I'm more apt to believe his first round performance was due to favorable matchups and he'll fall back down to Earth vs SA.

I just don't see it. You don't see teams paying high dollar contracts for backup players when the starter is a superstar. Use Dirk as an example. The mavs have never paid a pf any amount of money to back him up. Go across the league and name a star. They don't have high dollar backups.

Scott McGuire · 05-03-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

They absolutely will if they make it past the second round (or even if it's a deep second round run) and Jack plays like he did in the first. Though that's a long shot. I'm more apt to believe his first round performance was due to favorable matchups and he'll fall back down to Earth vs SA.

First of all.. Austin Croshere

Second… If they didn't have Klay Thompson AND we basically capped out for a long time… then yeah, do whatever you need to have Jarrett Jack return and be your STARTER in the backcourt Curry. As a backup combo guard and at 30 y/o you really have to wonder if signing him to a 10mill/year deal is going to do more good or damage to your team.

I'd love to have him around 4/20… For more? I'd have to know what the rest of the roster looks like. Anything over 4/28 is too much for the Mavs under any circumstance in my opinion.

Dirk's Knee · 05-03-2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

First of all.. Austin Croshere

Second… If they didn't have Klay Thompson AND we basically capped out for a long time… then yeah, do whatever you need to have Jarrett Jack return and be your STARTER in the backcourt Curry. As a backup combo guard and at 30 y/o you really have to wonder if signing him to a 10mill/year deal is going to do more good or damage to your team.

I'd love to have him around 4/20… For more? I'd have to know what the rest of the roster looks like. Anything over 4/28 is too much for the Mavs under any circumstance in my opinion.

Ah yes, that's a lesson to learn from. I just think he's going to get more than 4/20. How much more really depends on how deep they go and what his performance is like.

sefant77 · 05-03-2013, 01:12 PM

You have to wait how the GMs reacting to the new CBA, with the LT penalties etc finally kicking it etc. They hammered out horrible contracts in 2011 and 2012 but like Cuban predicted allready 2011: Superstars still get maxed out but the salary of the first bench guys or the 3rd/4th option will decrease. Thats where the teams gonna start to save money and i think they wont become so quick so desperate anymore to throw big contracts out just to sign or keep someone (remember, the Thunder ripped their big three apart because of it, the Grizz dumped Gay - both playoffs teams).

I dont think Jack will make more than 10m. 6-8m, thats the new range for guys like him (or Mayo) with this CBA and i think finallly GMs gonna adjust to it.

If the Warriors keep Jack they will hit deep LT territory next season. After it 20m are gone with Jefferson/Biedrins but a healthy Bogut gonna get a max contract offer somewhere and Klays/Barnes paydays moving closer too.

JeffViggiano · 05-03-2013, 01:19 PM

jack is a very smart and good player but i don't see him like a starter PG,he need a curry-tipe of player in the backcourt with him.

he makes stupid TO and his ball handling isn't very good...

Melonhead · 05-03-2013, 01:25 PM

Avg response to any free agent on this board:

"He's not good enough! I'd pay him table scraps and nothing more!"

yahyes · 05-03-2013, 01:29 PM

First move has started. Jim O'brien will retire. The new assistant coach is Kaleb Canales, who assisted in Portland for a couple years. He looks to be a plausible help in strategy. Not to mention he went to University of Texas in Arlington, for any alumni from there.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-03-2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Avg response to any free agent on this board:

"He's not good enough! I'd pay him table scraps and nothing more!"

I think a lot of people echo what the FO is willing to spend during these plan power days. But, hey, I agree that getting good and talented players that make a difference will cost money. And there is a debate on Jack's worth which is why I like discussing it.

Rick41 · 05-03-2013, 01:35 PM

I'm from Laredo, graduated from the same high school as Kaleb... pretty cool stuff going on right now. Someone from my neck of the woods is coaching on my favorite sports team.....

Rick41 · 05-03-2013, 01:35 PM

Double.

Scott McGuire · 05-03-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Avg response to any free agent on this board:

"He's not good enough! I'd pay him table scraps and nothing more!"

You mean like paying Jarrett about the same salary he just got after having a slightly better year in the 2011-2012 season?

I guess you might have forgotten that Jarrett was a free agent last year and ended up signing for 1year/5.4million. Coming off a 15.6p/6.3a/3.9r slash with .456/.348/.872 percentages you'd think somebody would have given him more than table scraps.

Oh and
2011-12: 17.97PER
2012-13: 15.93PER

grndmstr_c · 05-03-2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

You mean like paying Jarrett about the same salary he just got after having a slightly better year in the 2011-2012 season?

I guess you might have forgotten that Jarrett was a free agent last year and ended up signing for 1year/5.4million. Coming off a 15.6p/6.3a/3.9r slash with .456/.348/.872 percentages you'd think somebody would have given him more than table scraps.

Oh and
2011-12: 17.97PER
2012-13: 15.93PER

But you do realize you're comparing a guy coming off a good-stat lockout-shortened season on a crappy team the year after he threw up a stinker in his first trip to the playoffs to that same guy coming off a year in which he garnered attention as a regular season 6MOY candidate before playing an important role in helping his team score a first-round upset, right?

Of course, I say that with full awareness that he's about to come up against an SA squad that's likely to make short work of the Warriors. But still, as of right now, he's looking like a pretty safe bet for at least a bit of a raise and a long-term deal (certainly one in excess of 4/20).

DGM · 05-03-2013, 02:53 PM

other pg targets?

FromDownTown! · 05-03-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

other pg targets?

What would Rondo cost (taking on Pierce's contract) if Boston tries to move him?

sefant77 · 05-03-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think a lot of people echo what the FO is willing to spend during these plan power days. But, hey, I agree that getting good and talented players that make a difference will cost money. And there is a debate on Jack's worth which is why I like discussing it.

Jack is a nice 4th guy. If you can get him and pay like a 4th option and you have still the cap/trade assets to sign/trade for your 2nd/3rd guy you are more than fine.

If you get Jack and you have to pay him like a 2nd/3rd guy and you cant get anymore a true 2nd/3rd guy because of this, then you are screwed...

yahyes · 05-03-2013, 03:09 PM

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...tension-talks/

Jack has rejected his extension plans with Golden St today. Which could a real option as a Mavs pickup. I'd take him over Collison for sure. He'd be a solid backup to persuade Chris Paul.

grndmstr_c · 05-03-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...tension-talks/

Jack has rejected his extension plans with Golden St today. Which could a real option as a Mavs pickup. I'd take him over Collison for sure. He'd be a solid backup to persuade Chris Paul.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to do some CBA research if you're going to keep posting ideas for trades and free agent signings.

yahyes · 05-03-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to do some CBA research if you're going to keep posting ideas for trades and free agent signings.

I'm not saying to sign him right away. Just throwing out the idea that Jack would obviously be a better option than re-signing Collison. Seems odd to me that Jack didn't make a verbal commitment to the Warriors, now they made it past first round. Also, I know enough about the CBA implemented in 2011. Hence why I'm fine we moved on with Tyson.

Underdog · 05-03-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Seems odd to me that Jack didn't make a verbal commitment to the Warriors, now they made it past first round.

Seems odd that you would find that odd, considering that making out of the first round is only going to drive up his value this summer... Why would he commit when he has leverage?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-03-2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Jack is a nice 4th guy. If you can get him and pay like a 4th option and you have still the cap/trade assets to sign/trade for your 2nd/3rd guy you are more than fine.

If you get Jack and you have to pay him like a 2nd/3rd guy and you cant get anymore a true 2nd/3rd guy because of this, then you are screwed...

Well he was basically a second guy in the GS series minus the final game. I don't like the turnovers, but the rest of the numbers speak for themselves. He can hit mid rangers, threes, drives it, rebounds, defends, passes...is there anything else you want out of a pg/player? He isn't the greatest playmaker, but that is really his only weakness in my eyes.

I don't want to get carried away with this because the summer can go 100 different directions, but Jack sure as heck better be on the radar.

EricaLubarsky · 05-03-2013, 05:38 PM

Jack is worth 4/40 to someone. Just maybe not to us.

13pts, 6ast, 3reb in the regular season on 53% shooting.
19pts, 7ast, 5reb in the playoffs so far

One of the best +/- on the team, respectable rebound rating for a guard and can load up the post well.

Problem is he's not that efficient as the primary ball handler, but I could see that being OK with Dirk playing secondary ball handler. He's slightly better than Collison at turning it over, but slightly worse than Collison at making plays.

grndmstr_c · 05-03-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Jack is worth 4/40 to someone. Just maybe not to us.

13pts, 6ast, 3reb in the regular season on 53% shooting.
19pts, 7ast, 5reb in the playoffs so far

One of the best +/- on the team, respectable rebound rating for a guard and can load up the post well.

Problem is he's not that efficient as the primary ball handler, but I could see that being OK with Dirk playing secondary ball handler. He's slightly better than Collison at turning it over, but slightly worse than Collison at making plays.

I doubt it. Not unless he really shines all series long against SA.

As for being slightly worse than Collison at making plays, I assume you mean for himself. Cause I'd take him over DC as a facilitator any day.

SMC0007 · 05-03-2013, 06:22 PM

Nate Robinson:

I'd like to take a nice look at him too, depending on what it would cost. He is mighty for his size and I consider him another guy like Jack that is looking like they're trending up to warrant a starting PG spot on a team. He's small but he has bulk and super speed.

dirt_dobber · 05-03-2013, 06:42 PM

Nate is good but not starting pg material. You would have to tolerate some of the low BBIQ stuff that comes with Nate. I like his grittiness (kinda like a stronger JJB).
His career TO rate is 1.49 per - I would have loved that this year on the Mavs.

oilfieldtrash · 05-03-2013, 06:47 PM

IMO these playoffs dont have much bearing at all in Jack's next deal. He is what he is. A semi starter/excellent bench guy.

yahyes · 05-03-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Seems odd that you would find that odd, considering that making out of the first round is only going to drive up his value this summer... Why would he commit when he has leverage?

Either way he'd have the leverage now after what has conspired IMO. The statements he made today surprised me, that's all.

Melonhead · 05-03-2013, 06:52 PM

I love Nate but dont see him starting. He has his moments, but he could definitely garner a 22-27 mpg.

And jack has already said he wants to stay in GS. He likes the role he is in and is aware he could start somewhere else but he likes the chemistry with GS.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-03-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

IMO these playoffs dont have much bearing at all in Jack's next deal. He is what he is. A semi starter/excellent bench guy.

Right. Beating a 57 win team while scoring 19 ppg on 52% shooting in an upset means squat. I'd much rather just not make the playoffs...amiright?

oilfieldtrash · 05-03-2013, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Right. Beating a 57 win team while scoring 19 ppg on 52% shooting in an upset means squat. I'd much rather just not make the playoffs...amiright?

It counts for something. Upping the contract by 5 million each playoff game like what's been done on this forum it does not.

You look at the body of work. So according to your math another good series and we're in the 15mil a year range?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-03-2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

It counts for something. Upping the contract by 5 million each playoff game like what's been done on this forum it does not.

You look at the body of work. So according to your math another good series and we're in the 15mil a year range?

No. I actually introduced the 4/40 idea a little while back. I didn't say that is what he is worth, but I did say that is what it would take to get him away from a good situation.

And you're damn right that a playoff performance like the Denver one makes a difference.

Melonhead · 05-03-2013, 11:43 PM

And Chris Paul gets tossed in his elimination game. Looks like were going for broke on Howard and Paul again...

yahyes · 05-03-2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

And Chris Paul gets tossed in his elimination game. Looks like were going for broke on Howard and Paul again...

Paul's demeanor towards the teammates looked fed up. He was the only one who showed up. The rest were overrated choke artists.

Thomas86 · 05-04-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Paul's demeanor towards the teammates looked fed up. He was the only one who showed up. The rest were overrated choke artists.

When Matt Barnes is the leading scorer for you're team it was over before it even started.

Underdog · 05-04-2013, 12:24 AM

Dwight ejected in an elimination game, Paul ejected in an elimination game - both teams knocked out of the first round... This should make for an interesting summer.

yahyes · 05-04-2013, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

When Matt Barnes is the leading scorer for you're team it was over before it even started.

Matt Barnes should officially be called a jinx.

twelli · 05-04-2013, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dwight ejected in an elimination game, Paul ejected in an elimination game - both teams knocked out of the first round... This should make for an interesting summer.

If Chris Paul has any intentions to leave the Clippers and head to Dallas, I am sure Dwight will follow. Don't think he likes it in Kobe's Lala land very much and he will find a much more pleasant environment in Dallas with Dirk and Cuban welcoming him with open arms.

Get it done, Cubes!

yahyes · 05-04-2013, 03:22 AM

Don't forget Dwight gambling on the achilles of Kobe too. Cuban said he'll be active this summer in meeting with free agents.

Chris Paul, Dirk, and Dwight together could be the hope! Dirk has put work into deserving help.