Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 189 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 09-30-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just goes to show how farfetched the DUST chip idea is. I mean, can you in a million years imagine Cleveland participating in that?

Ah, i thought we know all how the dustchip would work

It has to be the player forcing the team "Sry, time for me to move on". Cleveland is then screwed anyway.

"Im leaving...i like Dallas. Here you can get at least Barea/Pick/Cash/(Howard)"
"No, you are Sammy Superstar, we dont do that, here sign with us"
"wtf no thxbye, i sign with Bulls/Nets/Knicks then"

Same with Bosh.

Im not saying we have a shot at James. I was just shortly fascinated how our team would run then up and down. Like i said, old suns but the nuclear version.

Well and at general it will all depend if Sammy does make a hard push to Dallas. Then we have a great chance because there are so many teams below the cap.

PS: Ok im doing it: Cavs sucks and just older again, Nets area project blowing up, Knicks rookies/Sophs sucking and no cap for 2 max contracts, Bulls are flirting allready with Wade and James know he cant beat 6 rings there....hello Da..jk

PPS: I will stop drinking now.

PPPS: I hate offseason.

Jon Avalon · 10-01-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2-A...video_response

Lets get it started.

lol while watching that vid. to the right i see some old vid about dirk back in 97 that was recently uploaded

Funny watching him do some of those dunks at the beginning, good stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTH02DRkv0

grndmstr_c · 10-01-2009, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

No, it hasn't. The "DUST chip" entails another team signing-and-trading a superstar player. It wouldn't be the "Ultimate Sign and Trade"--which of course, is coming from our own pathologically optimistic perspective--if it involved a guy like Marion who was going to end up having to take the MLE at any rate. (In that case it would be a "Regular Old Sign and Trade").

I'll put it this way. I think it's more likely that a guy like Dirk opts out of his contract and signs somewhere for the vet minimum than it is that the "DUST" scenario plays out. If you disagree...well, suit yourself.

The idea behind the DUST chip is for the Mavs to make use of Damp's contract to improve the team. It's that simple and it's entirely uncontroversial. Just because some media outlets err on the side of exuberance and some message board posters err on the side of naivete doesn't mean that the expectations of the people calling the shots are similarly extreme; and for the sake of wisely weighing potential Damp deals in the interim that's all that really matters.

As for your contention that the Marion acquisition was nothing more than a "Regular Old Sign and Trade", I can't imagine why you would think that. For one thing, if I remember correctly you and I are very much in the same camp of thinking that the national media has thus far missed the boat on him, and that he'll prove to be a real difference-maker for the team. In other words, I at least think we're in agreement that he's not a regular old player. Building on that, any time the words "Regular Old" and "Trade" are paired up, the implication is that the trade in question was talent neutral. In Marion's case (as well as in the RJ trade), that's obviously not even close to being the truth. But the bottom line is this: if getting a guy like Marion without giving up anything of any real value on the court is the prototype for a "Regular Old Sign and Trade" using a partially guaranteed 7.5 million dollar contract, then color me excited to see what a "Regular Old Sign and Trade" using a nonguaranteed 13 million dollar contract will look like. The overwhelming likelihood that said "ROSaT" would not involve Lebron James is supremely unconcerning to me.

jthig32 · 10-01-2009, 05:56 AM

I will continue to point out that, while it is extremely, extremely unlikely, the idea of getting a superstar like Lebron is not about whether Cleveland will do it. If Lebron, for whatever inexplicable reason, goes to Cleveland and says "sign and trade me to Dallas or I'm signing with New York outright, I will not accept a sign and trade to any other team"...what does Cleveland do? Sure, maybe they say "screw you, go sign with New York". Or maybe they work with Dallas to pick up whatever scraps we can throw into a sign and trade to give them SOMETHING.

You can't look at it from the team's perspective. The team will be put in a real tight spot if the player decides he wants a SnT to Dallas. The key is convincing a player of that magnitude to come here. And that's obviously an extreme longshot.

Beyond that, there's absolutely no reason that it has to be a SnT. Jefferson was not a SnT. As _c stated, if the Jefferson and Marion deals don't prove the *potential* value of an instant expiring contract then you're just not paying attention.

Underdog · 10-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Am I the only person who thinks Damp will be used to acquire an all-star caliber player that another team will be trying to get rid of to make room for guys like LeBron or Wade, rather than getting LeBron or Wade themselves?

(although I still think Bosh could be a reality - especially with all our expiring big men...)

jthig32 · 10-01-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Am I the only person who thinks Damp will be used to acquire an all-star caliber player that another team will be trying to get rid of to make room for guys like LeBron or Wade, rather than getting LeBron or Wade themselves?

(although I still think Bosh could be a reality - especially with all our expiring big men...)

That's possible although I don't think the Mavs are going to take on that level of salary for anything less than an all star caliber player, and I don't think the likes of Lebron and Wade will be signing with a team trying to unload its current all star caliber player.

But certainly it's a possible scenario. That's the beauty of it, there are so many different scenarios in which that trade chip nets us something very valuable for next to nothing in return.

sefant77 · 10-01-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You can't look at it from the team's perspective. The team will be put in a real tight spot if the player decides he wants a SnT to Dallas. The key is convincing a player of that magnitude to come here. And that's obviously an extreme longshot.

Its not such a longshot. Its more like Gortat. We can call them all on july 1 "Hey, dont you wanna join a veteran team/great franchise that just mad title/finals/WC finals/WC semifinals and dont have to give up much for you?"

Then we have to sit back and just hope and see if there is a Sammy that care the most about winning and not other stuff. Because if its about winning it all they should all make a push for Dallas because a Sammy puts us for sure in the 1a/1b spot the next 2-3 seasons at least.

Even if Heat or Knicks could still sign 2 max contracts, the roster quality would be freaky short. 2 stars, 2 talents and then nothing. Thats not how you beat LA or Orlando soon. Even the Nets would be several pieces/major benchplayers away from a real contender.

Bulls would have straight up a roster for a nice playoff run but there is just one spot for a Sammy and there are several Sammys. OKC would have great future, but its OKC.

But you never know what really counts for some players. The city, the (alone) attention? How desperate are Sammys after allready several years without a ring (or even a shot at a ring) to finally have a chance to win it all?

Quote:

Beyond that, there's absolutely no reason that it has to be a SnT. Jefferson was not a SnT. As _c stated, if the Jefferson and Marion deals don't prove the *potential* value of an instant expiring contract then you're just not paying attention.

Marion is also an example for pushing a trade. I read in several sources that Marion really pushed hard for this trade to happen (sure, the friendship with Colangelo helped).

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 10-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Marion pushed hard for the trade to happen because his agent explained to him he wasn't getting over the MLE any other way but by going to Dallas after Toronto signed Hedo most likely. Let's not act like he has some connection to Dallas or he wanted to be here more than any other team, it was about money. There's nothing wrong with that though that's like 99% of any NBA players.

I agree with jthig that the MBT aren't going to trade Damps huge contract for anything short of an all-star OR maybe two good players that add up to Damps salary could be possible. (how about Camby or Kaman + Eric Gordon or Biedrins + Azubuike :P )

dude1394 · 10-01-2009, 12:12 PM

How interesting...Looking at the 82games.com stats comparing each teams ranking by position. For example Cleveland has the #1 SF, Dallas has the #1 PF, etc. So the mavs best second player by position is.........Center??

http://www.82games.com/0809/BYPOSIT.HTM

Sorry about the formatting...I cannot get it correct so I'm removing it. You'll have to go to the link.

chumdawg · 10-01-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The idea behind the DUST chip is for the Mavs to make use of Damp's contract to improve the team. It's that simple and it's entirely uncontroversial. Just because some media outlets err on the side of exuberance and some message board posters err on the side of naivete doesn't mean that the expectations of the people calling the shots are similarly extreme; and for the sake of wisely weighing potential Damp deals in the interim that's all that really matters.

As for your contention that the Marion acquisition was nothing more than a "Regular Old Sign and Trade", I can't imagine why you would think that. For one thing, if I remember correctly you and I are very much in the same camp of thinking that the national media has thus far missed the boat on him, and that he'll prove to be a real difference-maker for the team. In other words, I at least think we're in agreement that he's not a regular old player. Building on that, any time the words "Regular Old" and "Trade" are paired up, the implication is that the trade in question was talent neutral. In Marion's case (as well as in the RJ trade), that's obviously not even close to being the truth. But the bottom line is this: if getting a guy like Marion without giving up anything of any real value on the court is the prototype for a "Regular Old Sign and Trade" using a partially guaranteed 7.5 million dollar contract, then color me excited to see what a "Regular Old Sign and Trade" using a nonguaranteed 13 million dollar contract will look like. The overwhelming likelihood that said "ROSaT" would not involve Lebron James is supremely unconcerning to me.

My apologies, as I did not make myself clear. I meant "Regular Old Sign and Trade" not to say anything at all about the value of the player being traded, but to mean that it was a routine situation where the team didn't mind at all that the player was about to sign elsewhere. In that case, sure, get involved if it nets you something of value.

EricaLubarsky · 10-01-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

How interesting...Looking at the 82games.com stats comparing each teams ranking by position. For example Cleveland has the #1 SF, Dallas has the #1 PF, etc. So the mavs best second player by position is.........Center??

http://www.82games.com/0809/BYPOSIT.HTM

Sorry about the formatting...I cannot get it correct so I'm removing it. You'll have to go to the link.

c- Magic
pf- Dallas
sf- Cleveland
sg- Miami
Pg- New Orleans

No surprises there except for maybe Wade over Kobe

DLord · 10-01-2009, 12:54 PM

1. We quickly lose perspective in these discussions when it's painted as ONLY a Lebron/Wade-or-bust discussion.

Would that be the IDEAL outcome from a Mavs' perspective? Of course. You certainly want to shoot for the stars - but if you merely hit the moon, haven't you still come out way ahead?

2. A recent example of an all-star-ish caliber player moving from one team to another, when his old team still wanted to keep him, would be Rashard Lewis. Seattle wanted to keep him, but he wanted to leave. Ultimately the Sonics even participated in a sign-and-trade on the deal.

That's one sort of deal that fits the DUST chip.

3. Assets like Stackhouse and Gooden and Buckner and Dampier have effectively changed the landscape for the Mavs. In the past, the Mavs would NEVER have been able to be a factor in free agency for a player the caliber of Shawn Marion. If it was over-MLE, they were out.

Now? They can compete just as if they had cap room. That doesn't mean they can get everyone and anyone, but it means they have the potential to add much better players to their core.

4. Let's be real here: adding a Marion in 2009 and a better-than-Marion in 2010 upgrades this team's prospects TWICE by a degree I don't think we've ever seen even once before in Mav free agency.

Kidd Karma · 10-01-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

1. We quickly lose perspective in these discussions when it's painted as ONLY a Lebron/Wade-or-bust discussion.

Would that be the IDEAL outcome from a Mavs' perspective? Of course. You certainly want to shoot for the stars - but if you merely hit the moon, haven't you still come out way ahead?

2. A recent example of an all-star-ish caliber player moving from one team to another, when his old team still wanted to keep him, would be Rashard Lewis. Seattle wanted to keep him, but he wanted to leave. Ultimately the Sonics even participated in a sign-and-trade on the deal.

That's one sort of deal that fits the DUST chip.

3. Assets like Stackhouse and Gooden and Buckner and Dampier have effectively changed the landscape for the Mavs. In the past, the Mavs would NEVER have been able to be a factor in free agency for a player the caliber of Shawn Marion. If it was over-MLE, they were out.

Now? They can compete just as if they had cap room. That doesn't mean they can get everyone and anyone, but it means they have the potential to add much better players to their core.

4. Let's be real here: adding a Marion in 2009 and a better-than-Marion in 2010 upgrades this team's prospects TWICE by a degree I don't think we've ever seen even once before in Mav free agency.

And you know the great thing about this is, is that outside of the Knicks, there is no team out there that can compete with the Mavs in this type of contract. What team near the lux tax would want to add salary? So there is very little competition in FA dollars outside of MLEs. And teams that do have cap space, will not attract the top FA's, since there isn't much of a core.

Toss in the Marion deal too, as being a bit NFLish. Marion was in on discussions with the Raptors on a 4 year 32 million deal, but here comes Hedo. Mavs advertise that they gave Marion a 5 year 40 million deal.....with the last year a team option ala the Stack and Dust Chips.

Dirkgreatness · 10-01-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

he biggest news came from off the court as the Mavericks announced that an open audition will take place to find a new public-address announcer for games at American Airlines Center. Billy Hayes, who was the designated screamer for the last several years, has left because of family health issues. As owner Mark Cuban said: "We are looking for someone who can embrace the attitude of the Mavs fan." The audition is Tuesday and interested applicants can get details on mavs.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.364151c.html

No more Humble Billy Hayes...

Windmill360 · 10-01-2009, 03:36 PM

twoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shots.

Rick41 · 10-01-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

twoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shots.

I could totally do the "two shots" voice.

SMC0007 · 10-01-2009, 07:18 PM

I hope they change the opening song for the starting lineups. The one we have had is such a thorough beating.

DavidDaMonkey · 10-01-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I hope they change the opening song for the starting lineups. The one we have had is such a thorough beating.

No way man! It's The Who! I'm biased, of course, but I think it's one of the best intro songs in all of professional sports. Would you rather have some crappy jock jam?

sefant77 · 10-01-2009, 08:22 PM

I would LOVE Hells Bells from AC/DC.

You can make a damn awesome intro with it telling the other team "Time to kick ur butts back home".

The soccer club St. Pauli (Hamburgs famous redlight disctrict with the biggest die hard fans) use it since years and its awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YSkoXrabIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKIFm...eature=related

dude1394 · 10-01-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I hope they change the opening song for the starting lineups. The one we have had is such a thorough beating.

Oh man..you couldn't be more wrong..that song rocks.

FreshJive · 10-01-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

How interesting...Looking at the 82games.com stats comparing each teams ranking by position. For example Cleveland has the #1 SF, Dallas has the #1 PF, etc. So the mavs best second player by position is.........Center??

http://www.82games.com/0809/BYPOSIT.HTM

Sorry about the formatting...I cannot get it correct so I'm removing it. You'll have to go to the link.

Sg is 10th? C is 12th? Am I looking at the wrong thing?

craggmac · 10-01-2009, 10:09 PM

I say "Crazy B!tch" by Buckcherry.

dude1394 · 10-01-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Sg is 10th? C is 12th? Am I looking at the wrong thing?

No you are not...my bad....I guess SG is jet/jjb?

rmacomic · 10-02-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

No way man! It's The Who! I'm biased, of course, but I think it's one of the best intro songs in all of professional sports. Would you rather have some crappy jock jam?

Eminence Front is a great song, also I like to think the subject matter of the song is a nice jab at Stern and the NBA.

Eminence Front, it's an Eminence Front, it's a put on!!

Dirkenstien · 10-02-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I would LOVE Hells Bells from AC/DC.

You can make a damn awesome intro with it telling the other team "Time to kick ur butts back home".

The soccer club St. Pauli (Hamburgs famous redlight disctrict with the biggest die hard fans) use it since years and its awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YSkoXrabIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKIFm...eature=related

Yeah Hell's Bells would be awesome.

Or we could go with Beyonce's "put a ring on it" .... afterall that song did have one the best videos of all time.

SMC0007 · 10-02-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Oh man..you couldn't be more wrong..that song rocks.

That song is really anticlimactic after the beginning guitar effects. When the full beat comes in it isn't impressive and wouldn't hype me up as a player and doesn't as a fan.

keeping it simple, this would be better imo.
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMUgmU_Hsjc

or

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liFmMcmigsQ

Windmill360 · 10-02-2009, 12:11 PM

i agree. I like eminence front. I couldn't really see it any other way but if I had to chose another i'd go with Boston foreplay.

or if they wanted to keep the trippy theme then Alan Parsons Project - The Voice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bephjla1XCs

Dirkadirkastan · 10-02-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liFmMcmigsQ

You can stuff those other ideas up your bunghole. No one's going to listen to you if you blatantly insult Eminence Front like that.

Nowitzki4President · 10-02-2009, 12:22 PM

Kashmir by Led Zeppelin.

Very badass song.

Whatever though.

SMC0007 · 10-02-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

You can stuff those other ideas up your bunghole. No one's going to listen to you if you blatantly insult Eminence Front like that.

I will stuff it pal!

Sorry if you can't handle it, the new idea for an intro is strictly FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK! And you clearly and blatently ain't about to rock.

Justin Credible · 10-02-2009, 12:48 PM

Am I the only one that thinks that if they change the song it should seriously have an epic sound to it? There are a lot of great songs that could work, but they generally don't have that "huge" sound to them.

I'd like to hear something like this. (not a rickroll)

Sorry about the quality, I couldn't find an album cut.

If not, something like this.

I know that they're both from the same band (and album), but I just mean the sound in general. It's monstrous and screams that something serious is about to go down..

Dirkadirkastan · 10-02-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I will stuff it pal!

Sorry if you can't handle it, the new idea for an intro is strictly FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK! And you clearly and blatently ain't about to rock.

At first I liked the idea of Hell's Bells. But if they changed it to that now, I would only think of how you shat on The Who. Not cool.

EricaLubarsky · 10-02-2009, 01:10 PM

Is this kid going to be 19 by this offseason?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KR9_...eature=related

SMC0007 · 10-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

At first I liked the idea of Hell's Bells. But if they changed it to that now, I would only think of how you shat on The Who. Not cool.

I didn't think I shat on them, just gave my honest opinion of that song as an intro to the Mavs. It doesn't do anything for me, it's more for those who ain't about to rock, such as yourself!

badfish22 · 10-02-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Kashmir by Led Zeppelin.

Very badass song.

Whatever though.

I could see kashmir being cool

Btw did they say somewhere they were gonna change the intro song?

Underdog · 10-02-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

I could see kashmir being cool

Btw did they say somewhere they were gonna change the intro song?

Nope...

sefant77 · 10-02-2009, 02:06 PM

No, they didnt. But i would like something more "kicking".

Hells Bells

For thouse about to rock is also a great idea.

Black Sabbath - Iron man would also rock

PS: For the homegames against Denver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGM1UMMRmXc
I would laugh so hard

craggmac · 10-02-2009, 02:06 PM

"Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangster"

Underdog · 10-02-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craggmac

"Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangster"

Isn't Denver already using that one?

LonghornDub · 10-02-2009, 04:15 PM

I was going to say Enter Sandman, because I think that is the best football intro song of all time, but I actually don't think it would work as well in basketball. The real impact there is the players running out of the tunnel once the main guitar riff starts (e.g., Virginia Tech), but in the NBA the players are already out on the court standing by the bench.

So, put me down for going back to Eminence Front. That song rocks.