2017 NBA Draft

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by yahyes

He did good playing in Arizona. This guy helped win his division. Where Oregon(who was in the final four) play in. Which means he went against legit competition just like Dennis Smith did if you want to compare. Though Markkanen actually helped his team into March madness. North Carolina was last in their division. I'm also looking at ones who have the college playoffs experience. Which bring it up for Markkanen. It makes sense when Dirk eventually retires within 2 years. Maybe 1. That spot can already be set for Markkanen once he grows up being Dirk's backup. Hey, Dirk had a shitty rookie season. Let's not forget that. So I think this Mavs franchise has developed a PF very well.

I get that he played in a good conference. The difference is in the tape. The skillset. What he did to be effective and how that will translate to the next level. He did one thing very well. Pretty much everything else was average. He looks NOTHING like Dirk did when he came into the league. Does that mean he can't be a great EURO player? No it just means he has some risk associated with him in a HERO DRAFT CLASS. Mind you I watched plenty of Arizona games. Did you watch him play versus Oregon?

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Smith will probably go higher because he's a stud... The big threat to push out Markkanen where we're picking is Ntilikina.

Good. Have all the top mock PG's drafted first. Then it leaves forwards open for us.

[hayth.james.g]

Let me help you. 11 points and 4 points against Oregon.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Let me help you. 11 points and 4 points against Oregon.

Oh nice, now give me his PPG and rebounds. Offensive and defensive separately.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Guard driven league. And we have nothing but backup caliber guards.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Good. Have all the top mock PG's drafted first. Then it leaves forwards open for us.

Yes, let all the stud players get drafted early so a spare can fall to us! You want an assistant GM job? I'll talk to Mark and hook you us ASAP.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yes, let all the stud players get drafted early so a spare can fall to us! You want an assistant GM job? I'll talk to Mark and hook you us ASAP.

Well first off, jimbo. The Mavs spot isn't known yet. Secondly you keep thinking I don't want to draft a PG. You just homer for probably the wrong one.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Guard driven league. And we have nothing but backup caliber guards.

Yeah, but how can you pass up a one-dimensional backup PF just because you need a starting PG? Insanity!

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Oh nice, now give me his PPG and rebounds. Offensive and defensive separately.

It's pointless trying to have a conversation with you. You cite Oregon as some example of the competition he faced. Yet he flopped both games against them. Now you just continue the argument cycle.

Flat out he has gaps in his game that need work. His athleticism (LOOK AT THE TAPE) show nothing close to what Dirk entered the league with. And we are talking about the most hyped draft in 10+ years. Markannen is a top 10 pick in most drafts. There are 8-9 players who are TOP picks in most drafts. Does this mean Markkanen can't be a great player one day? No, it simply means he is NOT a BPA NOR a position of need. He makes no sense unless we pick at 10. Even then it's not a slam duck that we should take him.


EDIT: I will also add he padded his rebounds mostly against garbo teams. He is a cupcake. 3 point sharpshooter with length that worked in NCAA. He will have to grow tremendously in this area to be successful in the NBA.

[yahyes]

Because all the main PG prospects will be gone. It's forwards next.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

It's pointless trying to have a conversation with you. You cite Oregon as some example of the competition he faced. Yet he flopped both games against them. Now you just continue the argument cycle.

Flat out he has gaps in his game that need work. His athleticism (LOOK AT THE TAPE) show nothing close to what Dirk entered the league with. And we are talking about the most hyped draft in 10+ years. Markannen is a top 10 pick in most drafts. There are 8-9 players who are TOP picks in most drafts. Does this mean Markkanen can't be a great player one day? No, it simply means he is NOT a BPA NOR a position of need. He makes no sense unless we pick at 10. Even then it's not a slam duck that we should take him.

Again I think you're confusing him for Olynyk...

I cite Oregon because that's how good of a fucking conference he played in. He also helped his school win his conference tournament. That's a solid track record to start the debate.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Because all the main PG prospects will be gone. It's forwards next.

So take Monk, Tatum or Isaac, since Jackson will be gone with the PGs (assuming they're all gone)... There are still better options than Markkanen where we're picking.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Again I think you're confusing him for Olynyk...

I cite Oregon because that's how good of a fucking conference he played in. He also helped his school win his conference tournament. That's a solid track record to start the debate.

Honestly winning or losing in college has very little to do with NBA success. And he wasnt the best player on his own team.

[Budapest Maverick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SAUeLhw9ws

It's like Roddy reincarnated and moved into a bigger, longer, stronger body with a better brain. Top 5 potential in this draft, 6'5, 6'11 wingspan, can shoot, has much better handles than Roddy had, beast two-way potential, a ridiculous athlete... I want him, no question about it. He could be the PG/SG version of Giannis.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Because all the main PG prospects will be gone. It's forwards next.

You don't like Nkilitina? What's not to like about him? Or you think he will be gone by then? Or maybe you view him as a future SG?

[MavzMan]

Coming down to the final game of the season:

#7 MIN 31-50 vs HOU
#8 DAL 32-49 vs MEM
#9 SAC 32-49 vs LAC

There might be a chance for a MIN win if HOU rests Harden but even then I doubt it as determined to lose as they appear to be.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You don't like Nkilitina? What's not to like about him? Or you think he will be gone by then? Or maybe you view him as a future SG?

Skeptical since he may need to sit a year.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Coming down to the final game of the season:

#7 MIN 31-50 vs HOU
#8 DAL 32-49 vs MEM
#9 SAC 32-49 vs LAC

There might be a chance for a MIN win if HOU rests Harden but even then I doubt it as determined to lose as they appear to be.

Chokes against the Lakers and a RWB-less Thunder squad don't give hope for the Timberwolves. Especially when the Lakers game feature two 40-pt games by their young studs.

Mavs need to seal the deal with another loss.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Skeptical since he may need to sit a year.

If we draft him in the top 10 he isn't going to ride the pine.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Skeptical since he may need to sit a year.

Nkilitina will not sit a year. His floor for me is Schroder, and that's a starter automatically on this team.

I get why you like Markkanen, but some of your arguments have not helped your case in this thread. I think he will be a good player in this league for a while. I just don't see him making a large difference on a championship contender, which is what we are striving to be.

But look, the draft and prospect ranking is all subjective. No one team is going to have the same draft board. So if you do believe in him and his talent and fit for the Mavs, keep bringing up supportive points. Just don't claim North Carolina was last in their division when they were most definitely first and had one of the best regular seasons in a while, and they happened to also win the whole tournament.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Coming down to the final game of the season:

#7 MIN 31-50 vs HOU
#8 DAL 32-49 vs MEM
#9 SAC 32-49 vs LAC

There might be a chance for a MIN win if HOU rests Harden but even then I doubt it as determined to lose as they appear to be.

I predict all three teams lose, which means both Mavs and Kings share the 8.5 spot

[Melonhead]

For hypothetical, lets say we get the 8 spot and Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are both available. Who do you prioritize?

Love what I see from Frank, but I wonder about the transition to NBA if his skills can be replicated on NBA defenses. Smith looks like a sure thing, but I worry about the ACL. Either way, fun problem to have.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For hypothetical, lets say we get the 8 spot and Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are both available. Who do you prioritize?

Love what I see from Frank, but I wonder about the transition to NBA if his skills can be replicated on NBA defenses. Smith looks like a sure thing, but I worry about the ACL. Either way, fun problem to have.

Smith no question. He has that alpha male mindset. I don't worry too much about torn ACL's these days. Athletes come back and play at a high level after that injury often. He looked plenty explosive this season.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For hypothetical, lets say we get the 8 spot and Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are both available. Who do you prioritize?

Love what I see from Frank, but I wonder about the transition to NBA if his skills can be replicated on NBA defenses. Smith looks like a sure thing, but I worry about the ACL. Either way, fun problem to have.

Smith. Frank is Roddy 2.0. Everything about him has a higher ceiling than Roddy (other than athleticism-- they're both elite), but just like Roddy, there are a lot more question marks. I could see him becoming the next Greek Freak, but I could also see him spending a year or two over seas, and capping out as a backup in the NBA.

Smith may not have the absurd potential of Frank,but he's almost guaranteed to be a starting-caliber player and I'd say his odds of being a top-10 PG in the league are over 50%. Dude is the real deal, which makes me think he may not be available.

As I see it, it's like playing the lottery and being given two options:
1) you get one card that has a 60% chance of hitting the jackpot, but maxes out at 5 million
2) you get another card that has a 30% chance of hitting the jackpot, but the biggest payout is 10million

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by saclare

Nkilitina will not sit a year. His floor for me is Schroder, and that's a starter automatically on this team.

I get why you like Markkanen, but some of your arguments have not helped your case in this thread. I think he will be a good player in this league for a while. I just don't see him making a large difference on a championship contender, which is what we are striving to be.

But look, the draft and prospect ranking is all subjective. No one team is going to have the same draft board. So if you do believe in him and his talent and fit for the Mavs, keep bringing up supportive points. Just don't claim North Carolina was last in their division when they were most definitely first and had one of the best regular seasons in a while, and they happened to also win the whole tournament.

I don't know if his floor is Schroder because Dennis had/has freak quickness. Frank is more of a savvy player that relies more on length and height.

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I could see him becoming the next Greek Freak, but I could also see him spending a year or two over seas, and capping out as a backup in the NBA.

And that is the biggest knock. If Frank turns out to be just a backup, then I could see either Donnie or Finley getting the boot. You really can't screw this draft up.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I don't know if his floor is Schroder because Dennis had/has freak quickness. Frank is more of a savvy player that relies more on length and height.

Frank's floor is more like Roddy. Raw skills, not much experience, only decent BBIQ, not much fire in the belly, low bulk/strength.

Still, I wouldn't turn down a guy who could be anywhere from Roddy to Schroder to Magic Johnson/antetokounmpo.

I just think there's a decent chance he caps out lower than a lot of expectations. He's a no-brainer for 15-30, but with a lottery pick, that's a HUGE risk. He may well turn out to be the best superstar in the draft, but more than anyone else in contention for the lottery, he has a high risk of busting.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For hypothetical, lets say we get the 8 spot and Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are both available. Who do you prioritize?

Love what I see from Frank, but I wonder about the transition to NBA if his skills can be replicated on NBA defenses. Smith looks like a sure thing, but I worry about the ACL. Either way, fun problem to have.

Smith. Higher floor, and I keep going back to that Duke game. If he can stay healthy he might end up as the best player from this draft.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For hypothetical, lets say we get the 8 spot and Dennis Smith and Frank Ntilikina are both available. Who do you prioritize?

Love what I see from Frank, but I wonder about the transition to NBA if his skills can be replicated on NBA defenses. Smith looks like a sure thing, but I worry about the ACL. Either way, fun problem to have.

You mean to tell me smith had an ACL injury?

[yahyes]

Maybe Frank can turn into a faster Shaun Livingston.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by yahyes

You mean to tell me smith had an ACL injury?

His senior year of high school.

This past year (his freshman year in college) he played every single game (not many other PGs can say that), averaged 35mpg, 18pts, 5reb, 6ast, 2stl

[EricaLubarsky]

If we pretend that each team will go for best fit/highest need rather than BPA, we can get a decent view of what the draft may go like.

1) Celtics
+++biggest need: Forwards
Best fit: Jackson, Tatum
--- smallest need: PG. Thomas is an allstar.

2) Suns
+++biggest need: PF with range
Best fit: Isaac, Tatum
--- smallest need: SG. Booker is their starting SG going forward.

3) Lakers
+++biggest need: Pf to spread the floor, center to anchor defense
Best fit: Collins, Isaac, Markkanen, Tatum
--- smallest need: PG, SF

4) Magic
+++biggest need: PG/SG (well shooting from every position)
Best fit: Monk, Markannen, Smith
--- smallest need: Center

5) 76ers
+++biggest need: Guards (PG/SG) who can shoot
Best fit: Fultz, Smith, Monk
--- smallest need: Center

6) Knicks
+++biggest need: frontcourt to play with Porzingis (SF or C), pass-first PG to run offense
Best fit: Collins, Jackson, Ball, Fultz
--- smallest need: PF

7) Kings
+++biggest need: Center to replace Boogie, PG who can cause chaos
Best fit: Collins, Fox
--- smallest need:

8) Wolves
+++biggest need: SG who can shoot
Best fit: Monk
--- smallest need: C (KAT is going to be a star)

9) Dallas
+++biggest need: PG with a jumper (we have great shooting 2-4 and a nice center)
Best fit: Fultz, Smith, Frank
--- smallest need: Forwards

If teams went with best fit over BPA, the draft should go something like this:

1) Celtics - Jackson
2) Suns - Isaac
3) Lakers - Markannen
4) Magic - Smith
5) Sixers - Fultz
6) Knicks - Collins
7) Kings - Fox
8) Wolves - Monk
9) Mavs - Frank

That's my prediction. Then again, Knicks always suck at drafting and teams will often go BPA over highest need. Then again, there's a high chance that Tatum and Ball are taken in the top 5. Something has to give.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Maybe Frank can turn into a faster Shaun Livingston.

Troll harder.

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Troll harder.

Ugh both are practically the same stature. I forgot you're the draft expert.

[yahyes]

Wow so Miles Bridges is staying another year. That may boost up TJ Leaf.

[rimrocker]

I definitely take Smith over Ntilikina because I see Smith being an instant impact while it could take several years for Ntilikina to develop.
Obviously the knee is a concern but Smith fills a need and his immediate impact would make more sense with the average age of our youth being somewhere in the 24-26 range.

I see Smith compared to Francis so I do wonder about his playmaking skills and if he has the ability to make others better. That I'm not sure about and perhaps someone can shed more light.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Wow so Miles Bridges is staying another year. That may boost up TJ Leaf.

Very shocked Josh Jackson hasn't declared yet. Can't imagine what he is waiting for.

[BPo001]

Mavs Fans For Life‏ @MavsFansForLife
The #Mavs announced today that they have been awarded guard DeAndre Liggins on a waiver claim. Liggins will wear number 14 for the Mavs.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So take Monk, Tatum or Isaac, since Jackson will be gone with the PGs (assuming they're all gone)... There are still better options than Markkanen where we're picking.

I'm not head over heels with any of the top 5-15 prospects.

If you had to pick between Justin Jackson or Isaac, who do you take? I'm not sure I see it going the way I've seen a few mock drafts... Depending on if teams draft for need of top prospect/talent alone.

I am curious to see where SMU's Semi Ojeleye ends up. I think he is being highly under rated. I hope he doesn't und up in S.A. or Utah, I can see him fitting in there perfectly and I would bet money he ends up being a baller. Reminds me a bit of Kawhi Leonard, with very similar ability and body type.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Mavs Fans For Life‏ @MavsFansForLife
The #Mavs announced today that they have been awarded guard DeAndre Liggins on a waiver claim. Liggins will wear number 14 for the Mavs.

Sweet!

We didn't get Steph Curry, but we got Seth
We didn't get Boogie Cousins, but we got Jaleel Cousins
We didn't get Dwight Howard, but we got Dwight Powell
We didn't get Deandre Jordan, but now we have Deandre Liggins

But seriously, the dude had solid stats for a backup. Can hit the three, but at 29 and only 9.8 mpg in 61 games since he was drafted 6 years ago in 2011, I don't have a lot of hope for him.

[sefant77]

You forgot Ball, someone in the top-6 would see him as best fit.

I think the Wolves would also see Markkanen as biggest need. Stretching the floor for KAT/Wiggins