Dallas Mavericks 2009 Camp Thread - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Rick41 · 09-28-2009, 09:27 PM

Since we have at least one player covered in tats (Gooden), are we physically tough like the Nuggets? /sarcasm.

CapitanObvious · 09-28-2009, 09:56 PM

Gooden is funny, I hope he grows up his beard again

nowhereman · 09-28-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I blame the fans as well as their equipment. Slowly waving the ACME brick signs around is weaksauce.

Didn't Cuban cite some sort of study that said that waving signs in unison is more disorienting than random movement? I could swear I read that somewhere last year.

Really, it's Dirk grabbing the ball and bouncing it and handing it to the ref. That's what's doing it.

EricaLubarsky · 09-28-2009, 10:42 PM

Wow the Mavs picked up the skinniest NBA player of all time to "bang" with our guys in camp. I thought JJB was light as a feather at 180 but dang.

Quote:

The 6-11, 25-pound center has been a banger during his decade-long NBA career. Now he’s a non-guaranteed roster invitee with no illusions about how his time in Dallas might unfold.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2074

Dirkadirkastan · 09-28-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Didn't Cuban cite some sort of study that said that waving signs in unison is more disorienting than random movement? I could swear I read that somewhere last year.

Really, it's Dirk grabbing the ball and bouncing it and handing it to the ref. That's what's doing it.

Well, perhaps 29th in the league should be taken into account in that study. Besides, when you watch it, it doesn't look like enough effort is being put into it, even if it's a viable strategy.

grndmstr_c · 09-28-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Didn't Cuban cite some sort of study that said that waving signs in unison is more disorienting than random movement? I could swear I read that somewhere last year.

Really, it's Dirk grabbing the ball and bouncing it and handing it to the ref. That's what's doing it.

Our brains are gestaltic hedonists, which means they're quite happy to discount randomness, but are relatively easily swayed by stimuli that betray a coherence and predictability (provided they've not habituated to those stimuli). Cuban's correct.

Incidentally, I'm not so sure that the low free-throw defense ranking can be explained away as chance, either. For example, check out the stats here for Dallas (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL5.HTM), and Houston (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809HOU5.HTM), which ranked first in that stat. In particular notice the higher percentage of ftas that are being taken by smaller players on the Dallas page. If you foul better free throw shooters it's pretty much a given that you're free throw defense is going to suffer.

StackAttack · 09-28-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Our brains are gestaltic hedonists, which means they're quite happy to discount randomness, but are relatively easily swayed by stimuli that betray a coherence and predictability (provided they've not habituated to those stimuli). Cuban's correct.

Incidentally, I'm not so sure that the low free-throw defense ranking can be explained away as chance, either. For example, check out the stats here for Dallas (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL5.HTM), and Houston (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809HOU5.HTM), which ranked first in that stat. In particular notice the higher percentage of ftas that are being taken by smaller players on the Dallas page. If you foul better free throw shooters it's pretty much a given that you're free throw defense is going to suffer.

I was about to say. That statistic means nothing more than we're sending better free throw shooters to the line than most teams - which is a testament to weak perimeter defense. That stat tells me that, more than against other teams, good perimeter players (who tend to be good free throw shooters, which of course has exceptions) are able to get to the rim and get fouled when playing the Dallas Mavericks (Dwyane Wade something something Salvatore Stern something).

EricaLubarsky · 09-28-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Incidentally, I'm not so sure that the low free-throw defense ranking can be explained away as chance, either. For example, check out the stats here for Dallas (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL5.HTM), and Houston (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809HOU5.HTM), which ranked first in that stat. In particular notice the higher percentage of ftas that are being taken by smaller players on the Dallas page. If you foul better free throw shooters it's pretty much a given that you're free throw defense is going to suffer.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. It is very unlikely that luck can play any role in a season that is almost 4,000 minutes long (as someone proposed around here).Theres just too much time for flukes to be worked out, and averages to become apparent. Our team FT "defense" is all about who we fouled and we fouled guys that can shoot at a higher percentage. Those guys tend to be smaller, and better jump shooters (Dirk and his ridiculous, Bird-esque near-90% FT shooting aside). I think it points strongly to what we already knew-- our man defense inside is fairly strong, and our perimeter defense and help defense inside needs work.

Small guys are penetrating and getting fouled under the hoop, and others are getting the foul shooting when we cant fight through or switch on a screen. Its pretty simple stuff and g-man is brilliant again in his response. Again at the risk of sounding like a record player here, I think this is where Marion will be incredibly helpful with his enormous versatility. We can put him on a single player (like kobe) and play box-and-1 zone or we can use his versatility in a match-up zone. Either way his versatility, length, tenacity and ability to guard players 1-5 is going to be invaluable.

I will be very disappointed if this team doesn't take full advantage of its ability to play a stifling zone defense. Zone isn't what we are forced into (as it was for some Nellie ball), its what this team should be strongest at. Sure, we dont have a single, strong shot-blocking presence but the FO has put together a roster with a lot of quick, long players that can easily collapse and provide help defense, as well as the occasional help-side block from Howard, Marion, Dirk etc. The zone will really highlight the versatility, length and interchangeability of this roster.

I also think that the zone would be very effective with the rebounders we have. We slow it down on defense with the zone, have some of the best rebounders in the league (Dirk, Marion, Howard, Kidd) collapsing to crash the boards, and as a strong rebounding team, it will support our ability to play a faster offense.

I just want to see Carlisle get er done.

pepe · 09-28-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Our brains are gestaltic hedonists, which means they're quite happy to discount randomness, but are relatively easily swayed by stimuli that betray a coherence and predictability (provided they've not habituated to those stimuli). Cuban's correct.

Incidentally, I'm not so sure that the low free-throw defense ranking can be explained away as chance, either. For example, check out the stats here for Dallas (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL5.HTM), and Houston (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809HOU5.HTM), which ranked first in that stat. In particular notice the higher percentage of ftas that are being taken by smaller players on the Dallas page. If you foul better free throw shooters it's pretty much a given that you're free throw defense is going to suffer.

Although I agree with the bold part, statistics can be mold to fit the needs of the observer, as Hollinger does, I could counterpart that according to the 82 games stats the Mavs are a more efficient foul making team only allowing 1.4 attempts per foul at the PG-SG spot while the Rockets allowed 1.58 attempts per foul.

Is impossible to find a holy grail stat in an endeavor dominated by flesh and blood human beings all the way from the FO, coaches and players.

Hollinger is the same cat that brought excitement to the Mavs fans when he said that Nick Fazekas was the steal of the draft. He continuously fail to understand the human factor in the equation.

I read his articles for entertainment purposes only, if I truly care to see an overall projection or consensus of my team I rather look at.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/#2509

EricaLubarsky · 09-29-2009, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepe

Although I agree with the bold part, statistics can be mold to fit the needs of the observer, as Hollinger does, I could counterpart that according to the 82 games stats the Mavs are a more efficient foul making team only allowing 1.4 attempts per foul at the PG-SG spot while the Rockets allowed 1.58 attempts per foul.

Is impossible to find a holy grail stat in an endeavor dominated by flesh and blood human beings all the way from the FO, coaches and players.

Hollinger is the same cat that brought excitement to the Mavs fans when he said that Nick Fazekas was the steal of the draft. He continuously fail to understand the human factor in the equation.

I read his articles for entertainment purposes only, if I truly care to see an overall projection or consensus of my team I rather look at.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/#2509

I absolutely agree with your point on the human element and the fallibility of statistics, but I also think that its fair to say that the numbers don't lie-- they just fib or are dishonest by omission.

As for the FT points, where on earth were you able to find that amazing stat?

pepe · 09-29-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I absolutely agree with your point on the human element and the fallibility of statistics, but I also think that its fair to say that the numbers don't lie-- they just fib or are dishonest by omission.

As for the FT points, where on earth were you able to find that amazing stat?

You probably read my post before I edited...I should have posted attempts per foul....and I agree that smaller PG-SG players tend to shoot a better FT % that bigger man and is obvious that at least last year the Mavs backcourt didn't put as much pressure taking it to the hoop as the other teams did.

But to say that the trend will continue is an unknown.....Howard could play a lot more SG this year and that alone will account for more free throws at the SG in the offensive end and erasing fewer attempts at the defensive end.

Statistics and sporting events are a double sword they look good until the game is on the line.

EricaLubarsky · 09-29-2009, 12:57 AM

See post 48, where I predict the future of the Mavs, or at least what I think RC should be doing, and it includes a ton of (probably justified) optimism.

fluid.forty.one · 09-29-2009, 11:42 AM

This thread (besides the boring FT talk) is making my sports pants so happy.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-29-2009, 03:40 PM

What the heck is he doing there?

jthig32 · 09-29-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What the heck is he doing there?

From Sefko

Quote:

For the second training camp in a row, the Mavericks had a marquee visitor.

After Reggie Miller stopped by to speak to the team last fall, legendary big man Kevin McHale spoke at the team dinner Monday night and was at practice this morning.

He's going to stick around all week to lend his expertise.

"For the first day of practice, I was very impressed,'' McHale said of the Mavericks. "They're a veteran team. It should be a very exciting year down here.

"They have the ability to play big, play small and (Drew) Gooden and (Shawn) Marion give them a whole different look.''

McHale, who somehow was let go by the Minnesota Timberwolves despite being a native son and doing a solid job building that team (and coaching it, too, at times). For now, he's just wanting to impart as much as he can to the Mavericks.

"He gave a good speech (at the dinner) and talked about the old days and what they're mindset was,'' Dirk Nowitzki said of the hall of famer who won three titles with the Boston Celtics. "I'm going to try to pick his brain while he's here. To me, he's probably the greatest low-post player the league has ever seen. He had every move in the book. It's good to have him and hopefully he can bring us to the next level

.''

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-29-2009, 04:35 PM

That's pretty cool. I wouldn't want Mchale giving any financial advice (cough under the table contract cough), but he'd be a great big man coach. Teach Damp/Gooden/Humphries/Singleton a thing or two.

On another note, I'm kind of surprised to see how well Marion is integrating with the team. It seems like he really genuinely gets along with everyone and is a goofball. I know it's early, but this seems opposite from all of those negative rumors you heard about the Suns locker room.

nowhereman · 09-29-2009, 04:56 PM

I just ran 40 simulations of the 09-10 mavs team (replacing departed players with the 08-09 counterparts of the new players) against the 08-09 Lakers, and I am officially pumped about the start of the season.

badfish22 · 09-29-2009, 05:21 PM

LSMF · 09-29-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's pretty cool. I wouldn't want Mchale giving any financial advice (cough under the table contract cough), but he'd be a great big man coach. Teach Damp/Gooden/Humphries/Singleton a thing or two.

On another note, I'm kind of surprised to see how well Marion is integrating with the team. It seems like he really genuinely gets along with everyone and is a goofball. I know it's early, but this seems opposite from all of those negative rumors you heard about the Suns locker room.

Its probably because Marion isn't playing with Amare "The Man" StoudeWhiner anymore.

Jon Avalon · 09-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Nice to see Dirk sporting the headband. Hope we see him wear it at least once this season.

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/cuaDT9I...300&height=450

http://friends.mavs.com/photo/smu-tr...8?context=user

DirkFTW · 09-29-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Who the heck is the dude in front and how do we keep him from framing Dirk for murder?

Jon Avalon · 09-29-2009, 06:02 PM

The dude is Fish, took me a bit to figure it out.

mavErika · 09-29-2009, 06:11 PM

video from day one of training camp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQvK..._embedded#t=11

...and yesterday's media day:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=142755027734

Bayliss · 09-29-2009, 06:11 PM

Dirk needs to keep the headband. I have a feeling before training camp is over, he will shave his head. I really hope he doesn't....

badfish22 · 09-29-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Dirk needs to keep the headband. I have a feeling before training camp is over, he will shave his head. I really hope he doesn't....

I think he does it so his hair grows back darker.
Do you see how blond it is right now? Its crazy....
Anyway I like how he shaves his hair. The longer his hair gets, the closer we get to the playoffs.

badfish22 · 09-29-2009, 06:23 PM

Team Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzIOEKyFip8

Marion Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk0lrEDQP9I

sefant77 · 09-29-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Team Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzIOEKyFip8

I stopped after 2 seconds reading "FoxSports".

sefant77 · 09-29-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I just ran 40 simulations of the 09-10 mavs team (replacing departed players with the 08-09 counterparts of the new players) against the 08-09 Lakers, and I am officially pumped about the start of the season.

Im pumped too but the same time this Gortat-stuff is nagging deep inside my head. Cant stop it but it still pisses me off because now we are close to Lakers/Spurs, with him we would been for sure on the same level. Specially after talking to some Bulls-fans about Drew Gooden and his defense and basketball iq.

Im not saying Gortat would have been the messias but after seeing him at the eurocup and his potential...the missing piece...

badfish22 · 09-29-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I stopped after 2 seconds reading "FoxSports".

Sefko is doing most of the talking, so its half-way decent.

mavErika · 09-29-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Jake Voskul (spelling?) in a Mavs uni already ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Voskuhl (voss-cull) noun. When a big man's combined fouls and turnovers exceed his combined points and rebounds over the course of a game.

Usage example: With Michael Redd out for the season, the Bucks need Dan Gadzuric to contribute more than his usual Voskuhl.
...

http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/200...y-voskuhl.html

jthig32 · 09-29-2009, 07:35 PM

I have a prediction:

The Mavs fan base is going to fall head-over-heels in love with Shawn Marion in very short order. The dude just exudes excitement, he's always laughing, he seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with fans, and he's going to bring a few things on the court that we haven't seen much of in a while.

He seems like Jason Terry-lite when it comes to personality, and he's going to be throwing down alley oops, which will quickly endear you to the fans.

mavErika · 09-29-2009, 07:51 PM

and by fanbase you mean the AAC crowd and casual fans?

Because as far as dallas-mavs.com and probably other message boards goes, that's more of an observation than a prediction, no? I'm already crazy about him!

Underdog · 09-29-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I have a prediction:

The Mavs fan base is going to fall head-over-heels in love with Shawn Marion in very short order. The dude just exudes excitement, he's always laughing, he seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with fans, and he's going to bring a few things on the court that we haven't seen much of in a while.

He seems like Jason Terry-lite when it comes to personality, and he's going to be throwing down alley oops, which will quickly endear you to the fans.

He had me at "hello"...

sefant77 · 09-29-2009, 08:02 PM

Im also wondering about that old "Marion/Suns lockerroom problems blabla" and if i have to choose now who was probably the lockerroom bitch of the big 3 back there (Nash, Amare, Marion) i wont say Nash or Marion...

But maybe it was at least a little bit true and Marion just didnt know what he had in Phoenix and now after the Miami and Toronto disasters he knows what he will have back in Dallas and thats why he is in great mood.

Thomas86 · 09-29-2009, 08:15 PM

I like what I see.....

Marion and Dirk....Marion is a fool LOL

EricaLubarsky · 09-29-2009, 09:07 PM

Are Ross and Kidd line dancing? Kidd's wrists look like many dance instructors I've seen.

AO41 · 09-29-2009, 09:07 PM

Dirks hair is longer than I have ever seen. Kinda kool. I like tht he grows it out thn completely shaves...I do the same. Umm Kidd still looks soo intimidating on the court. I swear this guy must win us a game or two just because when he gets on the court opposing players get scared...lol....and I really hoping for good things from the new kid.

GO MAVS...should be a good season

Windmill360 · 09-29-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Are Ross and Kidd line dancing? Kidd's wrists look like many dance instructors I've seen.

Beaubois.

EricaLubarsky · 09-29-2009, 09:33 PM

They certainly look similar, you have to admit

FunkyTownFwehah · 09-29-2009, 10:00 PM

Gooden is a very underrated mid-range jump shooter. If he hits those on a consistent enough basis to bring shot-blocking centers out of the paint, marion and howard will have more opportunities for easy baskets. Whether it's drives of the dribble or dive cuts with a kidd delivery on the way. Opportunities will be there for the taking.