PGT: We don't deserve to win - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2015, 03:23 PM

I will say that finding a scapegoat for this season is a lesson in futility. First it was Parsons isn't living up to his contract, then Rondo sucks, Dirk sucks, now Ellis sucks, and Rick has sucked somewhere in between. It will be tough to know what to learn from this team. I'd like to believe they just need a training camp, but I'm having doubts about that.

rimrocker · 03-23-2015, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I will say that finding a scapegoat for this season is a lesson in futility. First it was Parsons isn't living up to his contract, then Rondo sucks, Dirk sucks, now Ellis sucks, and Rick has sucked somewhere in between. It will be tough to know what to learn from this team. I'd like to believe they just need a training camp, but I'm having doubts about that.

Lets hope there is a 2 month period this Spring when the sucking stops.

EricaLubarsky · 03-23-2015, 03:31 PM

The great constant is Rick. All year his rotations have been questionable and the team still doesn't know how to run a basic play. There just isn't an excuse-- even after a trade-- to not know how to run a single fundamental play to try to get someone open.

I understand he's trying to go away from just milking Dirk, because Dirk won't be around forever and next year's team really has to be about Parsons, Ellis, and/or Rondo. Still, Parsons gets almost no looks in the second half of the fourth and Ellis is given free reign to run whatever he wants. Sometimes that gets us a win. Sometimes-- like last night-- it makes us lose. Wouldn't it be nice to have at least 1-2 plays we can try before just dumping it to Ellis and telling him to do whatever he wants?

rimrocker · 03-23-2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The great constant is Rick. All year his rotations have been questionable and the team still doesn't know how to run a basic play. There just isn't an excuse-- even after a trade-- to not know how to run a single fundamental play to try to get someone open.

I understand he's trying to go away from just milking Dirk, because Dirk won't be around forever and next year's team really has to be about Parsons, Ellis, and/or Rondo. Still, Parsons gets almost no looks in the second half of the fourth and Ellis is given free reign to run whatever he wants. Sometimes that gets us a win. Sometimes-- like last night-- it makes us lose. Wouldn't it be nice to have at least 1-2 plays we can try before just dumping it to Ellis and telling him to do whatever he wants?

I love Ellis but my argument all along has been that he takes away from Dirk's, Parson's and Rondo's games.
That's two former all-stars and one budding potential all-star taken completely out of our offense.
Again, move RJ as our starting SG and move Ellis to the bench. He should thrive in that role and so should the others. If not, get rid of them all and encourage Dirk to retire.

purplefrog · 03-23-2015, 03:50 PM

I believe the cliche' that fits best is "too many cooks spoil the broth".

For 1.5 years Monta was able to, dare I say, dominate the ball from the 2 spot. Calderon and Nelson mostly played as a spot up shooter around the 3 pt line. Monta could take it to the rim and finish or dish it out to Dirk, Jose, Vince, or even Crowder.

Now, we have Rondo wanting to orchestrate the offense and it puts Monta in a different position and one that he might not appreciate. On top of that, Rick is experimenting with Parsons executing the offense, which puts both Monta and Rondo in different roles. The result is confusion and probably some discontent. I think it is too much for a group of players, who do not really know each other, to adapt to this level of complexity. Rick has some egos and skill sets that have to mesh and so far it is only happening occassionally and cannot be sustained against top tier competition. The confusion saps the energy from the team and you get this apparent lackadaisical attitude. That's my best guess.

I think the good news is that the talent is there and if the players can just work this out amongst themselves (with direction from RC), then this team could still have a deep playoff run. I believe that, but the players have to put egos aside and adapt their visions as to roles they are supposed to play on this team.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The great constant is Rick. All year his rotations have been questionable and the team still doesn't know how to run a basic play. There just isn't an excuse-- even after a trade-- to not know how to run a single fundamental play to try to get someone open.

I understand he's trying to go away from just milking Dirk, because Dirk won't be around forever and next year's team really has to be about Parsons, Ellis, and/or Rondo. Still, Parsons gets almost no looks in the second half of the fourth and Ellis is given free reign to run whatever he wants. Sometimes that gets us a win. Sometimes-- like last night-- it makes us lose. Wouldn't it be nice to have at least 1-2 plays we can try before just dumping it to Ellis and telling him to do whatever he wants?

Your first point about Rick is hyperbole. I agree he hasn't been as good of a coach this season, but I feel like it has more to do with player management than in game management. I think your second point proves that actually. I don't think it has to do with play-by-play calling issues but more a "this player gets to do this, or that, or I bench them whenever I feel like it" issue. Players don't look comfortable when they aren't sure of their role.

spreedom · 03-23-2015, 04:24 PM

While I do think the coach ultimately does have some level of accountability when you can see consistent, trending deficiencies, I think that's the symptom and not the disease. The misfitting parts are the disease and the poor offensive play is a very obvious sign of it.

EricaLubarsky · 03-23-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Your first point about Rick is hyperbole. I agree he hasn't been as good of a coach this season, but I feel like it has more to do with player management than in game management. I think your second point proves that actually. I don't think it has to do with play-by-play calling issues but more a "this player gets to do this, or that, or I bench them whenever I feel like it" issue. Players don't look comfortable when they aren't sure of their role.

A coach can't just say, "I get players to like each other, but I'm not responsible for players knowing their roles or teaching players to run plays." The buck stops with the coach and everything that goes into a team performing well is the coach's responsibility, whether or not it's their fault directly.

If players don't know their role, it's on Rick. If players can't run a play, it's on Rick. If players under perform, it's on Rick.

That's not to say that he's a bad coach-- he's one of the best in the league. Don Nelson is one of the best of all time and he had major failures too and/or was a bad fit the year before he left. Guys stopped listening to Nelson and we moved on.

Regardless, we are going to need to make some tough decisions this offseason.

Bryan_Wilson · 03-23-2015, 05:02 PM

This team needs to stop coming out flat and lacking focus to start games/halves. At the same time though RC isn't stopping this "Monta time" stuff, he's promoting it. We aren't even running as many two man plays for him and Dirk. It's TC setting the screen and Monta taking 4 steps and shooting. We have a lot of guys who want the ball in their hands and they really don't fit well as a whole. That doesn't excuse or absolve RC from what he has been allowing to happen and encouraging to happen to close games. Even at random parts of the game we will have a nice flow and then suddenly Monta takes it across mid court gets a screen and fires up a shot with 15 seconds left on shot clock. There is no world where that is good offense. We can all throw out excuses of too many play-makers but RC has the power to stop silly plays like that and if the past two months are evidence, he has no intention of stopping it. Which is an issue.

Thukydides · 03-23-2015, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

This team needs to stop coming out flat and lacking focus to start games/halves. At the same time though RC isn't stopping this "Monta time" stuff, he's promoting it. We aren't even running as many two man plays for him and Dirk. It's TC setting the screen and Monta taking 4 steps and shooting. We have a lot of guys who want the ball in their hands and they really don't fit well as a whole. That doesn't excuse or absolve RC from what he has been allowing to happen and encouraging to happen to close games. Even at random parts of the game we will have a nice flow and then suddenly Monta takes it across mid court gets a screen and fires up a shot with 15 seconds left on shot clock. There is no world where that is good offense. We can all throw out excuses of too many play-makers but RC has the power to stop silly plays like that and if the past two months are evidence, he has no intention of stopping it. Which is an issue.

absolutely right. great post!

yahyes · 03-23-2015, 05:30 PM

Man, there's a lot Carlisle and the team can talk about in practice today. Consistency is what has been needed badly.

j0Shi · 03-23-2015, 05:50 PM

I don't think Monta is the problem, it's more that his great play has helped to mask issues this team has.

Underdog · 03-23-2015, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I believe the cliche' that fits best is "too many cooks spoil the broth".

For 1.5 years Monta was able to, dare I say, dominate the ball from the 2 spot. Calderon and Nelson mostly played as a spot up shooter around the 3 pt line. Monta could take it to the rim and finish or dish it out to Dirk, Jose, Vince, or even Crowder.

Now, we have Rondo wanting to orchestrate the offense and it puts Monta in a different position and one that he might not appreciate. On top of that, Rick is experimenting with Parsons executing the offense, which puts both Monta and Rondo in different roles. The result is confusion and probably some discontent. I think it is too much for a group of players, who do not really know each other, to adapt to this level of complexity. Rick has some egos and skill sets that have to mesh and so far it is only happening occassionally and cannot be sustained against top tier competition. The confusion saps the energy from the team and you get this apparent lackadaisical attitude. That's my best guess.

I think the good news is that the talent is there and if the players can just work this out amongst themselves (with direction from RC), then this team could still have a deep playoff run. I believe that, but the players have to put egos aside and adapt their visions as to roles they are supposed to play on this team.

This is the way I see it too, great post.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2015, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I don't think Monta is the problem, it's more that his great play has helped to mask issues this team has.

Well stated, and I agree. At least Monta tries to be the star the team just doesn't have. A season long problem is everyone trying to be too team oriented from the get-go. I'd actually love it if Parsons went into Ricks office and demanded the ball in the fourth quarter. Someone has to nut up, and Monta is the only guy that seems to want to. If Dirk wants the ball, then yell at Monta or Rondo or whoever to get him it.

SMC0007 · 03-23-2015, 08:47 PM

Monta takes bad shots. Lately seems way to quick to whine about calls.

Dirk doesn't want the ball, and can't play D to save his life.

I would expirement with some PnR/pnp with Parsons and Monta.

FreshJive · 03-23-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

November 18.9 4.3-5.9 .723 0.0-0.0 .000 1.3-1.8 .690 4.3 0.3 1.6 0.6 1.9 0.6 9.8

December 15.4 2.6-3.6 .720 0.0-0.0 .000 0.9-1.2 .765 3.1 0.5 1.1 0.5 1.1 0.6 6.1

Teams took away the Devin-Wright two man game since late NOV. Also he blocked less shots and grabbed less rebounds. Overall Wright (and the whole team) slowed down as the season progressed. It has nothing to do with Rondo or Jameer. Teams simply began to play better defense and our schedule got tougher...

Let's not create false myths about the strenght of our team. This team was always a 9-7 seed.

I don't care to debate Brandan Wright, and I wasn't creating any false myths. My initial comment was only directed towards the retarded notion that Rick is the "worst offensive coach in the league" and that they can't run a simple play. They were the best offense in the league until the Rondo trade. You can't just throw a new point guard in the lineup with a drastically different playing style, and expect everything to run smoothly. Especially when that point guard can't shoot.

Samurai · 03-23-2015, 09:07 PM

I'm not seeing much here I can agree with other than that a team is only as good as its best player. The only problem I see is that Dirk is not performing up to his usual standards. At 36 years of age, hardly surprising.

What seems dumb to me is all the jumping on and off the Monta bandwagon. As late as a month ago the gurus were gushing over how clutch he has been. And the stats seem to support that, though the ones I see are mostly volume stats. What I found strange was how nary an eyebrow was raised at Dirk being phased out of the offense late in games. And turning the offense over to a notorious ball hog? A guy who has never been an efficient scorer?

Bryan_Wilson · 03-24-2015, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd actually love it if Parsons went into Ricks office and demanded the ball in the fourth quarter. Someone has to nut up, and Monta is the only guy that seems to want to. If Dirk wants the ball, then yell at Monta or Rondo or whoever to get him it.

I think CP has been somewhat subtle in saying similar things all year. When he signed here he said he was looking forward to a bigger role. Then we shoved him on the perimeter and made him an off ball spot up shooter. He's said multiple times to the media that it's not his game. After the Suns game CP said Monta has been their guy all year and they have confidence in him, then when asked about the playcalling he simply stated it's up to the coach to call the plays. Maybe just me but it doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement about how we close games. CP get's yanked if he makes a a few mistakes I don't see him going toe to toe with RC or Ellis when he seems to be on such a short leash. We also don't know if CP is or isn't going to RC behind closed doors, for all we know that is why RC has given him more opportunities lately. I do think that if he flat out demanded something it would not be received well, He isn't a long term vet like Amare. I think he would seem more like sour grapes than aged wine.

mavsfan1000 · 03-24-2015, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

While I do think the coach ultimately does have some level of accountability when you can see consistent, trending deficiencies, I think that's the symptom and not the disease. The misfitting parts are the disease and the poor offensive play is a very obvious sign of it.

Yep and having too many poor shooters the cause of this.

markus1234 · 03-24-2015, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If Dirk wants the ball, then yell at Monta or Rondo or whoever to get him it.

If he yells at Rondo and Monta the defense will hear it and Dirk won't be open anymore.

It's Monta's and Rondo's job to pass the ball to Dirk without yelling. You do not yell on offense. Defense is a different story. There you can yell at your teammates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

I don't care to debate Brandan Wright,

Wright is just an example. Our "Rick" offense is overrated all over the place.

In 2011 Kidd/Jet/Dirk run the show. Now Monta is playing 1 on 5 and Rick tells us that this is the only way to get open shots in the 4th lol. Amazing. It's like saying we have no system on offense. Even the Chicago Bulls with Jordan created multiple open shot opportunities for Kukoc, Kerr and co.

Meanwhile we do this....

11:15 Dirk Nowitzki defensive rebound 77-76
11:12 Monta Ellis misses 22-foot two point jumper 77-76

http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?ga...79338&period=4

3 seconds between a rebound and a jumpshot. That's streetball.