I hope I'm not noticing an Anti-Finley vibe going on in here... - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 05-24-2002, 03:48 PM

I must disagree with your last statement. Finley might not receive as much credit as Dirk does but I don't think he sees as much criticism either when he performs below his potential.

Dirk is the better player so he WILL receive more credit when he puts together a solid stretch.

You can't have it both ways.
You want him to get as much credit as Dirk. He shouldn't because he's not as good of a player.
Yet you have no problem with Dirk receiving more criticism.

MavsFanFinley · 05-24-2002, 09:04 PM

Yeah, well, I'm disagreeing with you.

Fans and media alike, give much more criticism to Fin than they do Dirk for poor performances. It started last year and happened all season long this year.

Epitome22 · 05-25-2002, 08:02 AM

I agree with MFF

Plus even as sub par a performance on the defensive end that Finley had, he still had twice the series that Dirk had.

David · 05-25-2002, 09:34 AM

<< I agree with MFF

Plus even as sub par a performance on the defensive end that Finley had, he still had twice the series that Dirk had. >>

"twice the series that Dirk had"? This wouldn't be a little exageration to support your view would it? The stats, on offense, for the two players have been posted on this thread and they DON'T support your statement. Neither player was great on defense.

Statements like this tend to lead me to discount your opinion. That is, I don't know if I can believe a person that comes up with something that is so obviously untrue as this.

dude1394 · 05-25-2002, 01:30 PM

<< I agree with MFF

Plus even as sub par a performance on the defensive end that Finley had, he still had twice the series that Dirk had. >>

I am waiting to see your proof on your statement.

As mentioned the stats were published, dirk scored more, shot 150points higher 3PTs, more assists, more FT's, more rebounds. His only detriment was a 50 points lower FG. All this being done while being double teamed constantly.

ReggieThetaChi · 05-25-2002, 03:03 PM

Alright, if Dirk is the better player, I'm going to rub some people the wrong way and say that DIRK DIDN'T DELIEVER! I'm casting him into the abyss that is home to Charles Barkley, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and the rest of the 91-94 Buffalo Bills and countless others who "couldn't deliver". His greatness automatically puts it there. Lets trade him off and and see if we can get the next Vlade Divac, because apparently that is now what it takes to slow down Shaq.

And, if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man.

MavsFanFinley · 05-25-2002, 03:18 PM

As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man.

Well, you know, the only way for the Mavs to win a title is by trading Finley. Didn't you know that Reggie? He's the one holding the team back, even though he's our 3rd best player. He has never improved, never will.

Takes too many shots, doesn't score, doesn't drive to the basket, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, can't block shots, doesn't play defense, shows know leadership skills...hell, how is this guy even able to play in the nba?

Remember he's our 3rd best player, at best, according to some. Yet, it's his fault that we couldn't beat Sacramento, he's such a let down to this organization.

And I'm tired of hearing how Dirk was double-teamed constantly. He may have taken the brunt of it, but I watched some of the games from both series and Fin saw quite a few double-teams himself. And he seemed to do all right.

dude1394 · 05-25-2002, 06:13 PM

<< As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man.

Well, you know, the only way for the Mavs to win a title is by trading Finley. Didn't you know that Reggie? He's the one holding the team back, even though he's our 3rd best player. He has never improved, never will.

Takes too many shots, doesn't score, doesn't drive to the basket, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, can't block shots, doesn't play defense, shows know leadership skills...hell, how is this guy even able to play in the nba?

Remember he's our 3rd best player, at best, according to some. Yet, it's his fault that we couldn't beat Sacramento, he's such a let down to this organization.

And I'm tired of hearing how Dirk was double-teamed constantly. He may have taken the brunt of it, but I watched some of the games from both series and Fin saw quite a few double-teams himself. And he seemed to do all right. >>

Yeah he did allright shooting jumpshots. He didn't post up so how can a double team even get to him. Dirk also had more assists than the guard finley, 3.2 versus 2.2.

But my biggest problem wiht finley is that he has had issues for 6 years now (bad handles, doesn't drive to the hoop, defensive issues and rebounds. But he NEVER seems to try and get better at his problems. While Dirk has been asked to necome a rebounder (becomes top 10) get a better post5-up game (goes to the line more than any other mavericks) and top 11 in the league. The mavs think he now has to lead the team in scoring, rebounds, assists. But nothing is even asked of finley. In my opinion that is NOT a team leader. It lets young players think that they do not need to practice to get better. I bet that mj, bird and magic never had that kind of attitude. They were always working on their weaknesses and let the rest of the team see what hard work was all about.

dude1394 · 05-25-2002, 06:26 PM

<< Alright, if Dirk is the better player, I'm going to rub some people the wrong way and say that DIRK DIDN'T DELIEVER! I'm casting him into the abyss that is home to Charles Barkley, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and the rest of the 91-94 Buffalo Bills and countless others who "couldn't deliver". His greatness automatically puts it there. Lets trade him off and and see if we can get the next Vlade Divac, because apparently that is now what it takes to slow down Shaq.

And, if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man. >>

You are right. Dirk didn't deliver the series. He led the team in points, rebounds, FTA, points in the paint. He didn't cover bibby worth a crap. He didn't cover bobby jackson either, he had more assits thatn finley or van excel. He shot just as badly as that guy Kobe has so far in the finals .408, 3PT % 231. Dirk was .402, .471 3PT %. It looks like the coaching staff should have gotten him a few more 3ptrs. I haven't heard how Kobe is "sucking" in the finals. It seems to be nice to have other members of the team step up to help when the franchise is struggline.

MavsFanFinley · 05-25-2002, 06:31 PM

Fin didn't see double teams? He didn't post up? How do you explain the fact that he went to the ft line 5 times a game against the Timberwolves and 7 times against Sacramento?

I didn't look up Dirk's numbers against the Timberwolves, but he only went 7.6 times against the Kings.

As for assists? Yes, Dirk did average more than Fin against the Kings, but not the Timberwolves and certainly not the season.

And who averaged more turnovers?

As for improving? I thought it was already stated that Fin hit his ceiling and is already falling (fastly, apparently). At 29, do you really think he's going to improve in some area? Compared to a 23 year old? And so what if he won't improve his ball handling, that doesn't mean he isn't working his ass off in the summer. You think because he doesn't go to some camp and do handstands or play the saxophone, that he isn't trying to work on his weaknesses?

MavsFanFinley · 05-25-2002, 06:36 PM

I haven't heard how Kobe is "sucking" in the finals. It seems to be nice to have other members of the team step up to help when the franchise is struggline.

Last time I checked, Kobe has nothing to do with this team, so bad comparison, imo. At least he's in the western conference finals right now.

As for the other members stepping up? Fin did his part. He may have had some letdowns, but what do you expect from a 3rd option that is aging and declining? Shouldn't be his job. You might look at Nash, the other cornerstone of the team, as some see it. He's 28, wonder if he'll come back improved? Reaf did his part too, I think it was stated that he actually had the best series out of the Mavs.

And no Dirk didn't guard Bibby or Jackson...who was guarding, Webber, Pollard and Divac?

Bayliss · 05-25-2002, 06:44 PM

**yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

Let's see: Dirk put up better offensive numbers. He and Finley sucked defensively. And yall are saying Fin was the MVP or our "leader" how?

MavsFanFinley · 05-25-2002, 07:00 PM

**yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

Reggie believes that Fin is our MVP. TheKid and I think he was the MVP of the Sacramento series.

My point (from my first post) is that Fin takes much more criticism than Dirk does for poor performances.

Not once did I say Fin was our best player or our MVP (other than the Kings series), yet I was accused of turning this into a Fin vs Dirk argument. Go figure, but that's what some like to do. Twist words around to suit their argument.

And others keep coming back with stats saying how Dirk is better than Fin but no one has disputed my argument that Fin takes a whole lot more licks than Dirk does.

Bayliss · 05-25-2002, 07:23 PM

<< And others keep coming back with stats saying how Dirk is better than Fin but no one has disputed my argument that Fin takes a whole lot more licks than Dirk does. >>

I think it's because Dirk has shown in the past the ability to improve his deficiencies. Whether it be rebounding, post up, passing, etc etc he is always working on his game and it shows the following year. But wehat Fin lacks, he hasn't improved a lot in the time he's been with the Mavs.

For example MFF... Dirk needs to work on his passing. Fin needs to work on his dribbling. My guess is Dirk will get better with his passing. Fin however will still be the same player as far as dribbling goes.

dude1394 · 05-25-2002, 07:38 PM

<< **yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

Reggie believes that Fin is our MVP. TheKid and I think he was the MVP of the Sacramento series.

My point (from my first post) is that Fin takes much more criticism than Dirk does for poor performances.

Not once did I say Fin was our best player or our MVP (other than the Kings series), yet I was accused of turning this into a Fin vs Dirk argument. Go figure, but that's what some like to do. Twist words around to suit their argument.

And others keep coming back with stats saying how Dirk is better than Fin but no one has disputed my argument that Fin takes a whole lot more licks than Dirk does. >>

Well I'll dispute it. This post as well as the national media have decided that dirks play cost us the sacremento series. I don't see Finley getting a new nickname that rags him. Maybe they could come up with something like Fumbling Finley to go along with "irk". I certainly don't see any media stating that finley cost us the series, even though he lett bibby blow by him in game 4, even though we had a foul to give. Looks like the biggest single play was blown by finley but I don't hear him catching hell for that.

MavsFanFinley · 05-25-2002, 07:45 PM

For example MFF... Dirk needs to work on his passing. Fin needs to work on his dribbling. My guess is Dirk will get better with his passing. Fin however will still be the same player as far as dribbling goes.

Good example, but that's not what I'm talking about in terms of how each is criticized differently.

Dirk can be 9-28, for 22 points and 9-12 rebounds, maybe 3-4 assists, 3-4 turnovers and a blocked shot.

Fin can be 11-17, 28pts and 5-7 rebounds, maybe 4 assists and only 1 turnover.

What will be posted around this board? Dirk had a solid game besides his fg %, but he'll make up for that in his next game by coming out and going off for 30+ points.

If we lose, it's cause someone didn't step up, most notably Finley, even though he put up numbers like the ones I posted above. What will be posted around this board. Well, he had that nice dunk, but didn't do enough. Shot too much, didn't pass the ball, didn't drive to the basket, blah, blah.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about who will come back most improved after the off season. I don't know how our sg is supposed to rebound as well as our superstar or how he's supposed to assist when he shouldn't even have the ball in his hand cause he can't dribble to save his life. No on the team can play a lick of defense, and whose name stands out most when talking about that? Fin's, wonder why? And no, it's not cause he's the worse, it's because whatever Fin does nowadays, it isn't good enough and it's become a trend to knock him whenever.

dude1394 · 05-25-2002, 07:54 PM

<< Alright, if Dirk is the better player, I'm going to rub some people the wrong way and say that DIRK DIDN'T DELIEVER! I'm casting him into the abyss that is home to Charles Barkley, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and the rest of the 91-94 Buffalo Bills and countless others who "couldn't deliver". His greatness automatically puts it there. Lets trade him off and and see if we can get the next Vlade Divac, because apparently that is now what it takes to slow down Shaq.

And, if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man. >>

I think you ought to give him more than 1 chance before you try to brand him with that type of label. did he deliver against Utah last year, against Minnesota this year. So unless Dirk wins the NBA championship then he fails in his second year being in the playoffs. I hope you are not judged in your profession like you judge dirk, I daresay you would be out on your butt right now.

And what we needed against Sac was someone who can play defense on bibby and jackson. bibby scored 21.8 (vs 13.7) for the year. So Nash allowed him 8 more points per game. Bobby jackson had 13.6 versus 11.1, so our perimeter defense allowed him 2.5 points over his average. Webber scored 1 point more than average. Divac avgs 15.6 vs 11.1. Hedo scored 10.0 vs. 10.1.

So no one on the mavs kept their opponent below their average. Nash's man got 8+,
Raefs' 4.5+, Dirks man 1+, Finleys man (Hedo) .1+, Van Excel or Griffins man (Bobby) +2.5.

It looks we played really horrible team defense. We didn't shut down anyone and it doesn't seem that we were trying to.

Murphy3 · 05-25-2002, 11:26 PM

Dirk didn't deliver in the playoff series. He is the best player on the team.

Fin didn't deliver in the playoff series. He is the second or third best player on the team

Nash didn't deliver in the sac playoff series. He is the second or third best player on the team.

I think we can see the problem. Is it a situation where these guys aren't clutch when it matters most or did they just have a bad series.

I believe they just had a bad series. Some of you are making a bit too much out of this. The biggest thing is is that the management on this team needs to address player personnel issues to help this team in this offseason.

dude1394 · 05-26-2002, 01:21 PM

<< **yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

Reggie believes that Fin is our MVP. TheKid and I think he was the MVP of the Sacramento series.

My point (from my first post) is that Fin takes much more criticism than Dirk does for poor performances.

Not once did I say Fin was our best player or our MVP (other than the Kings series), yet I was accused of turning this into a Fin vs Dirk argument. Go figure, but that's what some like to do. Twist words around to suit their argument.

And others keep coming back with stats saying how Dirk is better than Fin but no one has disputed my argument that Fin takes a whole lot more licks than Dirk does. >>

You must mean OFF the court. Because he sure doesn't on the court. No on on the mavs except possibly steve seems as willing to go to the paint and risk getting hammered. Maybe Fin did in the sacremento series, but too bad, he can't decide to only do it in the playoffs. He has to be willing (and able with better handles) to do it all season.

dude1394 · 05-26-2002, 02:12 PM

<< Dirk didn't deliver in the playoff series. He is the best player on the team.

Fin didn't deliver in the playoff series. He is the second or third best player on the team

Nash didn't deliver in the sac playoff series. He is the second or third best player on the team.

I think we can see the problem. Is it a situation where these guys aren't clutch when it matters most or did they just have a bad series.

I believe they just had a bad series. Some of you are making a bit too much out of this. The biggest thing is is that the management on this team needs to address player personnel issues to help this team in this offseason. >>

So Nash, Dirk, Fin didn't deliver in the series. So which of those three do you want to replace? I still contend that there was a team defensive breakdown. Also getting a few more rebounds from a 6-7 finley and raef would help. A healthy Najera would have also helped our defense. We lost the one thing that we didn't have an abundance of, Sacremento lost Peja, but bibby easily made up those points.

Drbio · 05-26-2002, 02:33 PM

**yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

This is the best line in this whole damn thread. Geez people, this argument was stale last month.

dude1394 · 05-26-2002, 02:54 PM

<< For example MFF... Dirk needs to work on his passing. Fin needs to work on his dribbling. My guess is Dirk will get better with his passing. Fin however will still be the same player as far as dribbling goes.

Good example, but that's not what I'm talking about in terms of how each is criticized differently.

Dirk can be 9-28, for 22 points and 9-12 rebounds, maybe 3-4 assists, 3-4 turnovers and a blocked shot.

Fin can be 11-17, 28pts and 5-7 rebounds, maybe 4 assists and only 1 turnover.

What will be posted around this board? Dirk had a solid game besides his fg %, but he'll make up for that in his next game by coming out and going off for 30+ points.

If we lose, it's cause someone didn't step up, most notably Finley, even though he put up numbers like the ones I posted above. What will be posted around this board. Well, he had that nice dunk, but didn't do enough. Shot too much, didn't pass the ball, didn't drive to the basket, blah, blah.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about who will come back most improved after the off season. I don't know how our sg is supposed to rebound as well as our superstar or how he's supposed to assist when he shouldn't even have the ball in his hand cause he can't dribble to save his life. No on the team can play a lick of defense, and whose name stands out most when talking about that? Fin's, wonder why? And no, it's not cause he's the worse, it's because whatever Fin does nowadays, it isn't good enough and it's become a trend to knock him whenever. >>

Ok here is the rub. Number one NOBODY got more heat for the sacremento series than Dirk has. He single-handedly has gotten the blame for our poor play in the first 3 games. Steve Nash singlehandedly won game two. Dirk lost number 1 and 3. Dirk has also gotten the blame for missing a contested layup in the fourth game.

Finley hasn't gotten any blame EXCEPT for having his head up his rear on the OT play where bibby blows right by him.

Now!! Overall finley gets criticized because:
- He is the highest paid player. 32nd in the league.
- He has improved his game in the last 3 years. In fact all of his stats are declining.
- He knows what he needs to work on and what the coaches have asked him to do and he is either lazy or doesn't really care to work hard enough to improve his game.
- There is no excuse for a player not to try and improve their game. The game is their job and just because they have a guaranteed contract doesn't excuse them.

Finley signed his last contract in 2001. Since that team his only statistic that has improved is FT%, TOs, FG%. He hasn't improved in rebounding, steals, FTM-As. In fact steals have almost been cut in half, assists have gone down by 1. So this player does not seem to be improving. I would NOT max him out if I had to today.

Hales233 · 05-26-2002, 02:55 PM

were you in "dude where's my car?"

i wouldnt be surprised one bit.

dude1394 · 05-26-2002, 05:42 PM

<< As much as it pains me to say it, I don't see the mavericks winning a title for a long time unless they do something drastic. And, when I use the term drastic, doesn't mean bringing in kandi man.

Well, you know, the only way for the Mavs to win a title is by trading Finley. Didn't you know that Reggie? He's the one holding the team back, even though he's our 3rd best player. He has never improved, never will.

Takes too many shots, doesn't score, doesn't drive to the basket, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, can't block shots, doesn't play defense, shows know leadership skills...hell, how is this guy even able to play in the nba?

Remember he's our 3rd best player, at best, according to some. Yet, it's his fault that we couldn't beat Sacramento, he's such a let down to this organization.

And I'm tired of hearing how Dirk was double-teamed constantly. He may have taken the brunt of it, but I watched some of the games from both series and Fin saw quite a few double-teams himself. And he seemed to do all right. >>

Ok back up your opinion. Tell me ONE, ONE aspect of Finleys game that has improved the last 4 years. Make sure it is not an anomaly? Has he increased the number of times he goes to the line. No. Has his assists risen? No. Does he have better handles. H*** NO!!

Watching Finley try to make his own shot is really discouraging. Watch him the next time he is trying to drive the lane. He is so concerned about his ball-handling that he alwasy keeps his head down. With his jumping ablilty he should be able to be kobe-esque.

So where was Finley double-teamed?? It certainly wasn't at the 3pt line. And it certainly wasn't while posting up? So where was it. Let's see did Christie cover him and as soon as he turned inside he was picked up by Weber or Divac. I don't think so. And If dirk was being double-teamed which (Nellie, the Sac coaches, and commentators ) said he was and even described it, then why didn't Finley able to put up more than 4 points over his average. He went to the line 6 times per game which is a 50% improvement through the year (251/69) .

After going back and comparing their playoff versus season stats, dirk didn't have as bad a series as I thought. Finley jumped from about 3 to 6 trips to the line. Dirk went from 6-9 trips. Dirks points went up 5. His 3 pts% went up almost 200%. We obviously should have gotten him more 3ptrs. Finley went up in rebs, fta's but down in 3ptrs by .50. Dirk's cumulative FG% dropped by .002. But down to .402 against sac.

Player
Dirk Player FTA REBs PPG FG% 3PT%
Playoffs 9.25 13.1 28.4 0.445 0.571
Season 6.8 13.1 23.4 0.447 0.397
Finley Playoffs 6.25 6.3 24.6 0.466 0.378
Season 3.6 5.2 20.6 0.463 0.339

dude1394 · 05-26-2002, 05:46 PM

<< **yawn** Dirk vs Fin **yawn**

This is the best line in this whole damn thread. Geez people, this argument was stale last month. >>

I guess it's not too stale it is one of the most buy threads and you seem to have read it as well. If you don't like it feel free to go to the "wang is cool" thread.

Drbio · 05-26-2002, 06:51 PM

strangely I can't find the dude is cool thread.

Hales- LOL!

Drbio · 05-26-2002, 06:53 PM

BTW, a buSy thread where two or three people repeat the same thing over and over and over and over just doesn't qualify as "fresh". Stale stays.

dude1394 · 05-27-2002, 02:04 PM

<< BTW, a buSy thread where two or three people repeat the same thing over and over and over and over just doesn't qualify as "fresh". Stale stays. >>

So why are you still here, it is so boring. You just like to come in like a kid and call each other names??

Murphy3 · 05-27-2002, 05:25 PM

dude, you should turn your PM's on

Ghost Face · 05-28-2002, 03:31 PM

No player had tougher matchups during the Sacramento series than did Finley. Doug Christie is a top defender in the NBA, which reduces the amount of times the Kings would provide him with support by means of a double team. Finley drew the double teams by getting to the top of the paint and either putting up a jumpshot,taking it to the hole or drawing a foul. On the other end of the floor Finley was asked to guard Bibby. Not only was Bibby the Kings best offensive player of the series, but Finley was being asked to guard him in key moments. Does anyone care to argue that Finley did not have the toughest matchups for the series? All of these tough assignments for a guy that plays the most minutes also.

Dirk drew lots of double teams, because the Kings knew his passing was a weakness. While Dirk did rack up more assists than Finley, it was obvious Dirk's assists would have to increase in this series after lighting up the T-Wolves. Dirk elevated his expectations, as well as national media expectations, with his series against Minnesota. When he began to look disinterested in Games 3&4, it was far more painful to watch than seeing Finley put up his usual 20pts,5reb,4ast,1stl. If I am remembering correctly, Dirk only had 1 blocked shot for the entire 5 game series! Dirk also had a chance to foul Bibby on the final play and althought it would have put Bibby on the line that is still the smart thing to do.

Murphy3 · 05-28-2002, 03:34 PM

i would think that a strong double team is a bit tougher to go against than doug christie, no matter how good he is defensively.
good try though

Ghost Face · 05-28-2002, 03:41 PM

I get the feeling Finley would make the other team pay more often, if double-teamed with the same frequency. Finley created double-teams by getting by his man and drawing a second defender. Dirk knew double-teams were going to come at him and still had trouble reacting. If anyones' handles are questionable here, it is Dirk's. Can someone with greater understanding, please tell me where the idea that Finley is not at least an above average ball-handler comes from? Every player cannot be Kobe and I don't quite understand what it matters where he is looking when he dribbles the ball? By this logic, Magic Johnson was a horrible passer because he always looked the other way.

Murphy3 · 05-28-2002, 03:49 PM

Fin has trouble going to his left. He is an explosive jumper. When he has an opening, he's quick to attack and can usually throw it down on just about ANYONE that tries to stop him at the basket.
However, one of his strong points isn't beating his man off of the dribble to take it to the hole (especially to the left).

and your last sentence made little if any sense at all.

Ghost Face · 05-28-2002, 03:55 PM

It wasn't supposed to make sense, just as saying Finley looks at the ground when he is dribbling makes no sense. Ever heard of peripheral vision? I imagine a professional athlete has plenty of this and can still remember where the hoop is located. By the way, this past season Finley had his lowest turnover/game average since his rookie season. I stll don't think 1.7 turnover a game is so bad, for someone who averages lots of shots and does drive to the hoop(fadeaways from inside the lane count).

Murphy3 · 05-28-2002, 04:07 PM

fin did a good job of not turning the ball over. however, he doesn't drive much either.
it's alot easier to handle the ball when you're not taking it to the basket on a consistent basis.

dude1394 · 05-29-2002, 10:13 AM

<< It wasn't supposed to make sense, just as saying Finley looks at the ground when he is dribbling makes no sense. Ever heard of peripheral vision? I imagine a professional athlete has plenty of this and can still remember where the hoop is located. By the way, this past season Finley had his lowest turnover/game average since his rookie season. I stll don't think 1.7 turnover a game is so bad, for someone who averages lots of shots and does drive to the hoop(fadeaways from inside the lane count). >>

I wasn't completely accurate, he doesn't look at the "ground" he is looking at the ball. This is a characteristic of a player who does not trust their handles. They look at the ball because of that uncertainty. Magic did not look at the ground because he was completely confident of his dribbling ability and didn't need to.

Most of finley's assists seem to come from outside in. Rarely do I remember him driving and dishing out, sometimes, but most of the time it seems that he has made up his mind what he will do and because he does not dribble comfortably without watching the ball he doesn't kick out that well. His assists are hardly anything to write home about. Dirk has gotten his to about 2.4, Finley was gone from 5.3, 4.4, 3.3 in the last years.

Just for a little comparison for sgs I have seen lately in the playoffs.
Doug Christie is at 4.4, Kobe 5.5, Szczerbiak is at 4.8.

dude1394 · 05-29-2002, 10:19 AM

<< dude, you should turn your PM's on >>

Honestly I don't know how, searched the help and faq and couldn't find anything.

djb · 05-29-2002, 11:29 AM

Dude, click on the "profile" tab at the top of the screen and check the box for enabling private messages.

dude1394 · 05-29-2002, 11:51 AM

<< Dude, click on the "profile" tab at the top of the screen and check the box for enabling private messages. >>

thanks dj...

PeterVecseyisdumb · 05-29-2002, 02:56 PM

While I think Finley is only an average passer, I don't think his passing has gotten worse over the last few years. Yes, his assist numbers are down. However, he doesn't get the ball as much now, as he used to. Therefore, his assist numbers will usually go down. This is why, if dirk got the ball more, his assist numbers would go up. Look at a player like andre miller. A lot of people talk about how he gets so many assists, and he doesn't have many talented teammates. What people don't point out is that andre miller gets the ball on just about every possession. He also gets double-teamed which increases his assist totals. I think it's easier to get assists when you have less talent around you, because you get the ball on just about every possession. If grant hill was healthy, tmac's assist numbers would probably go down. Finley's numbers will likely go down, mainly because of the talent around him. I don't think finley has a worth ethic problem. Finley is about 28. He will probably not become a good ball handler. That doesn't mean finley doesn't work hard.