Bradley seen dancing in the streets? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dooby · 03-21-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: steponhens
What career exactly did Bradley have before Nelson supposedly ruined it? I don't recall him doing anything before he came here.

What has Bradley done?

Before Bradley got to Dallas (93-94 to 96-97)
11ppg, 8.1rpg, 3.5bpg in 29mpg for the Nets and the Sixers

Since Bradley got to Dallas (96-97 to 03-04)
7.6ppg, 6.3rpg, 2.4bpg in 22mpg

Last three seasons (04-05, 03-04, 02-03)
4.1ppg, 3.6rpg, 1.3bpg in 14.6mpg

Ok, to be fair, Bradley was traded from Philly and the Nets and both teams were glad to get rid of him at the time. It is funny to look at Bradley's early stats and realize that if he put those numbers up today, he'd be getting $8M a year.

Bradley's early career was at the end of the center-dominated NBA (leaving Jordan out of it for the moment). Ewing; Hakeem; Mourning; Robinson; Dikembe, Shaq were all stars at the time. GM's thought Bradley would be that kind of player-they could run the offense through him. That simply wasn't the case.

Now we live in a power forward's league: KG; Duncan; Dirk; Webber; etc. The only center left that is reminiscint of the earlier era is Shaq. He's the only center in the league you'd even want to run an offense through. Look at the allstar game, they don't even bother looking for a backup center to put on the roster.

To sum up, I don't think you can compare center statistics from the 80's or 90's with Centers of today, even when that center is the same player.

chumdawg · 03-23-2005, 12:46 PM

In today's Star Telegram:

Quote:

In the two games since Avery Johnson became coach, center Shawn Bradley has averaged seven points, 8.5 rebounds and three blocked shots in 27 minutes per game. In his previous 60 games, Bradley averaged 2.3 points, 2.3 rebounds and 0.73 blocked shots in 10.2 minutes.

He said it was difficult to get mentally prepared for games when he knew he probably wasn't going to play more than five or 10 minutes.

"I've always tried to approach the game very professionally and, when called upon, to go out and do the best I can when I'm out there," Bradley said. "But when you play 2 1/2 or 3 minutes and get blamed for losing the game -- yeah, it does affect you in the head.

"But I still tried to be professional enough about it to go out the next time and try again."

kg_veteran · 03-23-2005, 01:00 PM

Amazing. One coach uses a player as a scapegoat but refuses to give him consistent minutes. Another coach gives the same player minutes with the stated expectation that he will produce.

I wonder which approach is more effective?

bernardos70 · 03-23-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
In today's Star Telegram:

Quote:

In the two games since Avery Johnson became coach, center Shawn Bradley has averaged seven points, 8.5 rebounds and three blocked shots in 27 minutes per game. In his previous 60 games, Bradley averaged 2.3 points, 2.3 rebounds and 0.73 blocked shots in 10.2 minutes.

He said it was difficult to get mentally prepared for games when he knew he probably wasn't going to play more than five or 10 minutes.

"I've always tried to approach the game very professionally and, when called upon, to go out and do the best I can when I'm out there," Bradley said. "But when you play 2 1/2 or 3 minutes and get blamed for losing the game -- yeah, it does affect you in the head.

"But I still tried to be professional enough about it to go out the next time and try again."

Hope he has a great life, but I'm glad Nellie is gone. This is just absurd, getting blamed for losing a game playing only 3 minutes.

Rhylan · 03-23-2005, 01:05 PM

I just don't quite get what Nellie's plan with Shawn really was.. it seems so irrational, especially compared to the way he handles other players. I just wonder if he and Shawn didn't have some natural opposition to each other or a grudge from way back, or something... because they both come off as pretty personable guys most of the time. Seems like there would be a lot of guys in the NBA that are a lot harder to get along with than Nellie or Shawn.

Anyway... I just hope Shawn can keep the effort level up mentally. That'll tell the tale, here.

vjz · 03-23-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
In today's Star Telegram:

Quote:

In the two games since Avery Johnson became coach, center Shawn Bradley has averaged seven points, 8.5 rebounds and three blocked shots in 27 minutes per game. In his previous 60 games, Bradley averaged 2.3 points, 2.3 rebounds and 0.73 blocked shots in 10.2 minutes.

He said it was difficult to get mentally prepared for games when he knew he probably wasn't going to play more than five or 10 minutes.

"I've always tried to approach the game very professionally and, when called upon, to go out and do the best I can when I'm out there," Bradley said. "But when you play 2 1/2 or 3 minutes and get blamed for losing the game -- yeah, it does affect you in the head.

"But I still tried to be professional enough about it to go out the next time and try again."

That's a pretty shocking quote. I wonder if Damp would've had the same fate if AJ wasn't here... just for this, am glad the Nellie era is over.

irontoad · 03-23-2005, 01:17 PM

That is a pretty shocking quote, Dirk77 would be proud... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Seriously, though, I think a Bradley tracking thread should now be fired up to see how he and his stats react to the coaching change...

chumdawg · 03-23-2005, 01:32 PM

Last Friday this is what Bradley had to say in the Star Telegram:

Quote:

Jump-starting Bradley

He's the tallest player in the NBA, but center Shawn Bradley isn't producing.

With starting center Erick Dampier still nursing a stress fracture in his right foot, the 7-foot-6 Bradley has a chance to shine. But

Bradley, who cut his upper lip Thursday against Portland and needed two stitches to close it, has played less than 10 minutes in 35 of the 59 games he has played this season.

How can the Mavericks restart Bradley's career?

"That's a question we've been asking for eight years," Don Nelson said. "It's kind of like the thermos. There's no answer to that one."

Bradley played only three minutes against Minnesota on Tuesday. He wasn't in the mood for summing up his short stint against the Timberwolves.

"I'm not going to say one thing or another about coach's decisions, because I'm a coachable player," Bradley said. "I try to do what I'm asked to do whether it's cheer off the bench, come off the bench and play, or start.

"I just try to do my best in whatever I'm asked to do. I let [Nelson] make those decisions, and I try to do the best that I can within those decisions."

Maybe AJ figured out in half a day what Nellie couldn't figure out in eight years? Maybe the thermos isn't so mysterious after all?

Kudos to Bradley for his professionalism. I fully expect him to bust his ass out there, if that's what he's asked to do.

Murphy3 · 03-23-2005, 01:44 PM

It's frustrating to hear Nellie and the media bad mouth a player that can help this team when given an opportunity. He was Nellie's scapegoat. He was/is the media's punching bag. It truly is unfortunate, and it couldn't have happened to a better guy. It truly saddens me to think back at the way this guy has been treated. I only wish I had an email address for the guy just so that I could get a few things off of my chest... to let him know that I along with others understand what has gone on here.

Why has he stayed in Dallas? He has taken so much b.s. from so many people. Why? Because of his family... because of his love for the city ...a city that unjustly made him the whipping boy ...made him the target of their racially motivated insults... taunted him for not getting the job done when he wasn't being given the opportunity to do the job....

It is refreshing to see the way that this guy has handled this. It is obvious that Nellie's remarks and misuse has negatively affected his game and his life. I just pray that he can overcome the affects of Nelson both in his personal life and on the court.

StrikerV · 03-23-2005, 02:03 PM

LOLL

The Mantis

rakesh.s · 03-23-2005, 02:05 PM

It is disappointing to think about how far this team could've gone or how many more regular season games could've been won if Bradley had played till he fouled out..

3 blocks = 6 points...There is a HUGE difference between giving up 96 ppg and 102 ppg

bernardos70 · 03-23-2005, 02:17 PM

There definitely is, but Blocks can be very misleading stats, you can't really say he prevented 6 points with those 3 blocks. They could have been rebounded by the other team the other team could have scored on those rebounds just as easily as they could have turned into fast break points for the Mavs. Either way, it's always good to block shots, but for the intimidation factor more than anything.

chumdawg · 03-23-2005, 02:29 PM

I see no reason to believe that Bradley cannot play at a very high level for the 18 minutes a game that Dampier rests. Since KVH also appears to be an effective backup for Dirk, is there any role left for Hendu to play?

She_Growls · 03-23-2005, 02:46 PM

SOOOOOOOO glad Nellie is gone! I always knew Shawn was his whipping boy, just like Eddie, Raef and even Devin for that matter. Nellie has been way overboard with Devin as a Rookie this year. I don't recall Nellie getting after Josh or Marquis their Rookie year. And Bradley can dance in the streets again; he hasn't since Jim Clemons was the headcoach of the Mavs. So I am glad Nellie is gone for Devin, Bradley and Dirk's sake. I think Dirk can now go to an even higher level. ---upgrading his D, will earn him MVP next year...

Show'em what you got Bradley!!

madape · 03-23-2005, 03:53 PM

AJ has unleashed the dogs of hell. It will rain blood tonight upon the heads of the hapless warriors. The Lord of pain is returning from exile. Burn in agony you fools! Bear witness to the wrath of the mantis!

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 04:13 PM

If the problem was ALL caused by Nellie as seems to be the consensus opinion, then I wonder why the players are hesitant to praise Bradley when he does well, for fear he will stop playing hard? Why do they worry that he will start "coasting" for the next 4 or 5 games?

I hope we are seeing the dawn of a brand new era with Bradley. But I am not as willing to buy the pony yet, when I have seen it break down so often in the past for reasons other than coaching. I am not fully skeptical - but I am very hesitant. Let's wait and see, and hope.

Mavdog · 03-23-2005, 04:50 PM

I don't recall any mavs player who produces as much varied fan reaction as Bradley seems to do. This is both those who see him as a maligned person who gets too much criticism by the coach as well as those who see him as a very tall unathletic stiff.

After all these years of watching him play I'm somewhere in between.

Yes, Bradley can contribute on selective nights, and on many occasions actually be a very positive contributor. Defensively he can make an impact on many nights just by hanging around the basket.

But then there are those nights when he doesn't bring his game, when he is totally ineffective defensively, getting bumped out of the paint for a board, beaten off the dribble by his man and can't even seem to run a pick and roll with his teammates. He can pick but then he fails to roll...

As far as Nellie's "handling" of Bradley, my impression is that the public statements were a reflection of the coach's frustration with the man. Does anybody truly believe that Bradley has actually improved his game over the last decade? No, it hasn't, although I expect that his supporters would argue that the reason Bradley's game hasn't progressed is due to the coaches failure to play him extended minutes.

It's the conundrum....did Bradley not acheive his potential because he didn't produce when he was put into games or did Bradley not reach his potential because the coaches didn't allow that to happen by not playing him?

The one thing that I have seen so far in the AJ era is that the team clearly is doing things differently on the defensive end as it relates to Bradley. When Nellie used Bradley it was almost 99% a zone with Bradley in the middle, AJ seems to not want to zone and is staying M2M with Bradley. The question is will M2M help or hurt Bradley's ability to stay in the game and contribute?

Captain Disaster · 03-23-2005, 05:02 PM

Let's wait and see if Bradley plays at a high level against the better teams AND if he is consistent. It does seem like he has been underutilized; however, he doesn't match up well against certain teams (just like everyone else). Wouldn't it be great if Bradley suddenly fulfilled his potential under AJ?

dalmations202 · 03-23-2005, 05:11 PM

IMO,
Bradley will be fine, as long as AJ keeps in mind that he is the best backup Center in the game today. I didn't say starting Center. He is too tough to officiate. Off'l have a hard time with Shaq, Bradley, and Yao. Bradley doesn't have the offensive game to get saved by the officials though. Some nights he is great, some awful -- even though he played the same way. It all comes down to who is officiating - and how they are calling.

AJ justs needs to remember that he is a beast that needs 16-22 min a night...no more and no less. If he fouls out -- so what. If not, keep him in as long as he is hustling and contributing. Some nights, he stands there, someone drives and the official on the backside blows the whistle when Bradley isn't near yet. That drives players, coaches, and fans crazy with the inconsistency of the play.

Murphy3 · 03-23-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
Let's wait and see if Bradley plays at a high level against the better teams AND if he is consistent. It does seem like he has been underutilized; however, he doesn't match up well against certain teams (just like everyone else). Wouldn't it be great if Bradley suddenly fulfilled his potential under AJ?

Much like most players in the NBA, he won't be consistent. That's why he's not a star. You have to take the good with the bad with Bradley because the good that he brings is something that the Mavs are in desperate need of. The bad...well, the bad isn't really that bad. Occasionally he'll get slammed on. So. Who doesn't? Yes, it looks worse when it's Bradley getting slammed on because he's 7'6. But, you shake it off and move on. Sometimes he won't be able to finish offensively around the rim. Well, that's ok. Just hit about half your shots and play defense. That's all we should ask. If that's all we ask and the Mavs give him minutes, we'll be happy with his production at the end of the day.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
In today's Star Telegram:

Quote:

In the two games since Avery Johnson became coach, center Shawn Bradley has averaged seven points, 8.5 rebounds and three blocked shots in 27 minutes per game. In his previous 60 games, Bradley averaged 2.3 points, 2.3 rebounds and 0.73 blocked shots in 10.2 minutes.

He said it was difficult to get mentally prepared for games when he knew he probably wasn't going to play more than five or 10 minutes.

"I've always tried to approach the game very professionally and, when called upon, to go out and do the best I can when I'm out there," Bradley said. "But when you play 2 1/2 or 3 minutes and get blamed for losing the game -- yeah, it does affect you in the head.

"But I still tried to be professional enough about it to go out the next time and try again."

I read this and nelson's star dropped a couple of thousand feet. He obviously knew what he was doing there, and I've heard him somehow blame a loss on a guy who plays 5 minutes. Really petty.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 08:52 PM

I'm with you murphy. Whenever I hear the talking heads yakking, yakking, yakking about shawn(miller, dunham make me sick when they start it), I turn the channel, every time. Whenever I hear the drunk asshole in the stands bitching about shawn not getting every rebound, even when he's holding his guy off and someone else gets it, dunking every ball, blocking every shot, I fume. Because they are a bunch of idiots who don't know what they are talking about, but like to hear themselves talk.

Shawn is inconsistent, but so is a lot of nba players, unless they aren't that important. But tell me someone else who will sit back and take the physical and mental abuse he has. Think about being the guy manning down the mavs interior the last few years, having everyone and his brother coming into the lane and getting dunked on because you are trying to cover a bunch of ole' defense from the perimeter.

I won't go on my Raef tear, but he got the same treatment imo.

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 08:54 PM

Raef sucked.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Pirate
Raef sucked.

I wondered who that drunk fan was behind me at the arena. Don't cuss so much will ya. [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 09:00 PM

Whoops, my bad, I said it wrong.

Raef SUCKS.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Pirate
Whoops, my bad, I said it wrong.

Raef SUCKS.

More drunk that normal..

10.9 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.23 bpg, eff +15.44...
FG% 48.9...
RealGM center rating: 9th. RealGM NBA RAnking 83rd in leageu, 41st in salary.

You should suck so bad.

Evilmav2 · 03-23-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Whenever I hear the drunk asshole in the stands bitching about shawn not getting every rebound, even when he's holding his guy off and someone else gets it, dunking every ball, blocking every shot, I fume

Over the years, whenever folks sitting around me at Mavs games proceed to make idiotic, ill-informed Bradley comments, things tend to get a little funny. Now, I've attended many, many Mavs games over the last decade, and whenever I attend these games I generally make a habit of imbibing quite profusely (beers and/or from a smuggled flasks of booze), and on these occasions, I almost invariably made a habit of turning the tables on the Bradley haters by always loudly standing up, yelling, and pounding my fists whenever Big #44 makes good plays.

This kind of behavior usually provokes dialogues (generally good natured) with whatever Bradley hating fools have the nut-weight to want to disparage the playing abilities of Bradley in debate with me, and these same-said fools generally become shocked when after initiating these debates, I start dropping cluster bombs of Bradley stats and pro-Mantis invective on them. Of course, I've always found debating other fans in this way to be one of the great enjoyments of attending Mavs games, and it becomes even more amusing for me whenever I get to do this sort of thing alongside other similarly minded folks (my brother, the inactive poster formerly known as Mavinator, or my old buddy, the trenchant, bad-mooded Ape).

Quote:

Because they are a bunch of idiots who don't know what they are talking about, but like to hear themselves talk.

And this is probably what a lot of the folks who sit around me at games end up thinking about me after watching any of my game watching, pro-Bradley theatrics[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]...

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 09:29 PM

Nice deceptive stats that show Raef's supposed ranking among centers, but then compares salary among ALL players for Raef the Suckhead, as if he is the 9th best PLAYER but 41st highest paid. Well no.

Also, deception continues with comparing Raef to centers, where he looks better, rather than to the position he has played most of the year (PF) where the mediocrity of his numbers is more easily seen.

It is easy to see through your nonsense that repeatedly tries to call anyone a drunk who disagrees with your moronic point of view.

It doesnt matter. The stats are deceptive, but the fact you feel a need to use deceptive stats proves what I said so succinctly.

Raef SUCKS.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 09:49 PM

I didn't use a single "deceptive" stat dude. Just basic ones. If raef were listed on the power forward page of realgm.com I'd have listed them.

Sticking his ranking in the "power forward" section he ranks right behing donyell marshall and rasheed wallace.

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 10:03 PM

Twist it anyway you want, but the truth still remains. Raef still sucks.

grndmstr_c · 03-23-2005, 10:12 PM

Deceptive stats (which they weren't) can hardly be much worse than no stats at all and an uncalled for insulting tone. Quit mucking up the thread, pirate.

On topic: I really hope Shawn's able to stay healthy the rest of the season. If Avery continues to trust him, as a starter with Damp out, and as the primary backup when Damp gets back, the Mavs will reap the benefits. Of this I have no doubt.

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 10:29 PM

Butt out. If someone calls me a drunk TWICE for disagreeing with him, then you need to get to the party and jump his case, not mine. I am not a weak ass that cant defend myself and I didnt see you or anyone jumping to my side at that point when the moron STARTED the insults. If someone else doesnt start the jazz, there wont be no jazz. Savvy?

The stats were indeed deceptive that compare a player to other CENTERS when Raef-that-sucks is creating them at the PF position. When you line him up against the other PFs in the league, he isnt that wonderful after all. (The info given was that he ranks somewhere near Donyell Marshall - who doesnt even start!! How impressive is that??) The numbers were deceptive even further when he says a player is 9th best in play vs 41st in salary (the 41st includes all the guards, all the forwards, all the centers, everyone) trying to make it appear that he is underpaid when instead he comes nowhere close to earning his pay.

I dont have to toss out a pile of stats to prove the obvious. And you quit mucking up the thread with your tone of superiority - just butt out.

Oh and lest we forget the point ...

Raef sucks.

dude1394 · 03-23-2005, 10:38 PM

Hmmm....obviously that beer icon should have been a smile, thought you would have picked up on it. Sorry you didn't catch the joke.

Oh Raef emailed me and called you a drunk. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

And no one said he was "wonderful" and all that. But if his stats are between Marshall and Rasheed, how do you say he "sucks".

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 10:47 PM

It was regarded as a joke or potential joke the first time, even though there was no smile. The second time when you tried to push it farther (still with no smile), and added another insult line to boot, the gloves came off. I dont look for insult wars and let them blow by me at first, but figured the repetition wouldnt stop unless it was addressed. I am more than willing to let the confrontational tone end.

But I still dont think Raef LaFrentz is worth a bucket of warm spit. I saw his game in Dallas and he is too soft for a center, and too unskilled for a PF, with a contract that says he is a star. Ewwwww.

chumdawg · 03-23-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

This kind of behavior usually provokes dialogues (generally good natured) with whatever Bradley hating fools have the nut-weight to want to disparage the playing abilities of Bradley in debate with me, and these same-said fools generally become shocked when after initiating these debates, I start dropping cluster bombs of Bradley stats and pro-Mantis invective on them. Of course, I've always found debating other fans in this way to be one of the great enjoyments of attending Mavs games, and it becomes even more amusing for me whenever I get to do this sort of thing alongside other similarly minded folks (my brother, the inactive poster formerly known as Mavinator, or my old buddy, the trenchant, bad-mooded Ape).

Not that I would ever think to disparage the elbow-throwing, shot-blocking, set-shot-making mountain of humanity that is Shawn Bradley...but if in a drunken frustrated moment I did...you, sir, are not a foe I would want to rumble with. [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

grndmstr_c · 03-23-2005, 10:58 PM

If you'd brought anything to the thread other than "Raef sucks" I'd have been happy to let you and dude go at it re: Raef. As it is, though, you're posting in a public forum, and doing a poor job of it at that, so I don't think I'll be butting out, thank you very much.

Pirate · 03-23-2005, 11:04 PM

Neither will I. Your contributions have been pretty worthless here - I offered a counter opinion to what was being said, and the best you had to add was grading style points for the people that were talking. Weak and worthless.

Chiwas · 07-10-2005, 03:35 PM

Shawn danced last night here in Chihuahua, playing with Eduardo El Rayo Najera (Eddie, for his friends) and several other NBA players in a game to aid poor children. The dancers of the Nuggets also performed.

http://www.tiempo.com.mx/

dirno2000 · 07-10-2005, 05:19 PM

Nice gesture by Shawn, but Cuban better burn those tapes before Stern finds out that Bradley isn't really hurt...

...speaking of Bradley, the NBA network is showing games 4,5 and 6 of the 1980 finals featuring the Lakers and the Sixers. After watching Kareem dominate, I'm again dumfounded that Shawn never bothered to develop a sky hook. At 7'6 not only would it be unblockable, it would be virtually uncontestable. It's amazing that someone that size can play 14 years in the league and only top 50% from the field once...his go to shoot is the 15-foot jumper from the baseline! What a waste of talent.

alby · 07-10-2005, 05:40 PM

not talent..

waste of body =p