Its time to get rid of Nellie.

[seelenjaeger]

Damn, it will be painful to watch the franchise headed into oblivion again after the Coaching Change, but then again - CHEERS, we got rid of Nellie ...

Last year it was "all about playoffs, and our regular seasons was worth shit". This year it´s "we can´t settle to just be IN the playoffs, Nellie has to go" ... Hypocrisy.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
Tonight was the most pathetic effort I’ve seen from this team all season and that’s saying a lot after Friday night. Quite simply they play with no heart on the road against average teams. You can knock Nellie for his substitution patterns or Donnie and Cuban for the construction of the team. Chemistry or not, at some point the so called star players have to say screw it and play with some pride. I’m just not seeing that. This is rudderless ship and there’s only so much the coach can do.

The problem is that the Mavs are the only team that I can think of whose best player is not a leader. Dirk, when healthy, is a top five talent and as fiery and competitive as they come on the court. In the locker room he’s easygoing and kind of timid. He doesn’t feel comfortable getting in anybody’s face and quite frankly he’s a weak defender so it hard for him to get on others about not defending.

Walker and Fin are leaders, but since Walker got here it seems that Fin has toned it down. I think Walker is being careful not to be viewed as the negative dominant personality that Danny Ainge accused him of being.

Jamison and Nash are good soldiers and clearly frustrated, but they’re not going to rip anybody.

After a loss like this there needs to be cussing, chairs thrown, things broken in the room, something. My guess is that there will be a quiet locker room and a quiet flight back to Dallas. I hope I’m wrong. Jason Kidd went on a 30 minute locker room tired and the Nets have won 8 of the past 10. Coincidence?

I agree with you to a point, Dirno, about Dirk's being essentially a lead-by-example type, not an up-in-yo-grill type screamer. That, i.e. leadership, has to be the next step in his development/evolution as a Top Ballplayer, money-time player and champion. Skillswise, I think he has enough to be there; intangibles-wise, it remains to be seen. My personal perspective is agnostic.

But I don't agree that they need the kind of blow-up type hysteria that you're suggesting, and CERTAINLY not from some kind of fake-talent, faux-leader like NVE or Walker (neither of whom, btw, could get on ANYONE for not playing defense either--Dirk is 5x the defender that Walker is, although I do not doubt that some wiseacre mathematician here is going to point out that 5x0 is still zero).

That F'em sh*t is like a hit of adrenaline, and only works in the short-term--maybe say for a series and a half in the playoffs against inferior talent or short-handed teams). But when the Mavs came up against the better team in San Antonio (and let's face it, whether Mavs fans want to admit it or not, SA was a MUCH better team), that bluster-and-swagger approach falls way short.

The Mavs' problems run far deeper than not having enough ghetto attitude. They start at the top, probably with Cuban, but they certainly peak with Nelson's losing philosophy, underdog philosophy, flawed concept of the game, and unwillingness to change.

You can have a punk like NVE or Walker scream F'em for 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year, and they still aint'gonna slow down Duncan or Shaq. And from the looks of things, it wouldn't be too effective against the likes of AK-47 or even erstwhile Mav Raja Bell (for God's sake).

This team can probably ramp itself up to 50-53 wins this year, but we've already seen a preciptous decline in the quality of play, and absent changes in leadership, it's only going to get worse. The next 50 games or so may easily look like watching a man (Nellie) lose his grip on the wheel (of the Mavs) in slow-mo.

And then what?

[dirno2000]

But I don't agree that they need the kind of blow-up type hysteria that you're suggesting, and CERTAINLY not from some kind of fake-talent, faux-leader like NVE or Walker (neither of whom, btw, could get on ANYONE for not playing defense either--Dirk is 5x the defender that Walker is, although I do not doubt that some wiseacre mathematician here is going to point out that 5x0 is still zero).

I think our road woes have reached the point of being critical and something has to happen. The problems with the construction of this team have been well documented. Still, there's enough talent here to beat Toronto, Washington, Utah, Milwaukee etc. on the road. While I wouldn't question the heart of any of our individual players, they play like they have no heart on the road against average teams. Somebody needs to get pissed and issue a challenge. I'm not suggesting it should be Walker, only that his personality is most conducive to it. Fin would probably be the best option, but he's been pretty docile and only speaks in sound bites (at least publicly). There are times when a little dissension can be productive.

That F'em sh*t is like a hit of adrenaline, and only works in the short-term--maybe say for a series and a half in the playoffs against inferior talent or short-handed teams). But when the Mavs came up against the better team in San Antonio (and let's face it, whether Mavs fans want to admit it or not, SA was a MUCH better team), that bluster-and-swagger approach falls way short.

I agree. I also feel that this team needs a shot of adrenaline right now until they regain the belief that the can walk into someone's building and get a win. Right now SA is not the problem. Utah and Milwaukee are.

You can have a punk like NVE or Walker scream F'em for 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year, and they still aint'gonna slow down Duncan or Shaq. And from the looks of things, it wouldn't be too effective against the likes of AK-47 or even erstwhile Mav Raja Bell (for God's sake).

It won't slow Shaq or Duncan, but it will give us the chance to compete with the Lakers and the Spurs. You really don't need to say f'em against Utah and Mil, you just need to play hard. They haven't done that IMO. We have to match the intensity of the other team and we're not doing that.

This team can probably ramp itself up to 50-53 wins this year, but we've already seen a preciptious decline in the quality of play, and absent changes in leadership, it's only going to get worse. The next 50 games or so may easily look like watching a man (Nellie) lose his grip on the wheel (of the Mavs) in slow-mo.

And then what?

I'm not against firing Nellie at the end of the year if things continue the way they are. Firing him now is pointless. What decent coach is going to lead this team from here? This is a Nellie team and there is no way Riley coaches it without personal changes. This is not the NHL where you can fire your coach and go on to win a title. If we fire Nellie now things will get worse, not better.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

You can have a punk like NVE or Walker scream F'em for 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year, and they still aint'gonna slow down Duncan or Shaq. And from the looks of things, it wouldn't be too effective against the likes of AK-47 or even erstwhile Mav Raja Bell (for God's sake).

ummmm no. We are slowing down Duncan and Shaq. look at where our wins came.
The problem is a general lack of fire and agressiveness against the bad teams. Every player on the roster looked lost out there last night, and I'm not sure it's Nelson's fault.

[Charlie Brown]

“Those playoff spots are totally up for grabs, unless you are one of those elite teams at the top – which we're not. … You can call all (the Western teams) playoff teams. Unless we start to distance ourselves, it's going to be a dogfight." -- Don Nelson

http://www.dallasbasketball.com



i hate nellie with a passion . . .

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

Originally posted by: Charlie Brown
“Those playoff spots are totally up for grabs, unless you are one of those elite teams at the top – which we're not. … You can call all (the Western teams) playoff teams. Unless we start to distance ourselves, it's going to be a dogfight." -- Don Nelson

http://www.dallasbasketball.com



i hate nellie with a passion . . .

I might be the only poster here who likes Don Nelson...but that crap should stop. Nellie can play three point guards, a tapdancing dwarf and a drag queen for all I care as long as he acts like he really believes it will work.

[grab]

"There are nights when I can see his warts, his deficiencies. Sometimes you want him to not take the gambles with the pass that he does. Maybe too many turnovers. Sometimes you say, 'What in the world is he thinking?' or 'Is he thinking at all?'" -- Don Nelson, on Antoine Walker.


Nothing. I was confused for two years. I didn't understand anything and I'm still confused." -- Gregg Popovich, on what he learned in his two years as an assistant to Don Nelson.

maybe walker is as confused as everyone else

[MavKikiNYC]

Dirno--

Short version: I think the Mavs aren't playing with passion NOT because of a lack of attitude, but because they're beginning to doubt Nellie's moves, and probably beginning to doubt his vision. The players are looking kind of disoriented because they don't see themselves playing in a scheme that's going to get the most out of them. It's a testament to their character that they've gone along with it THIS long.

Nellie's (and Cuban's) shortsighted roster moves have left them in a very difficult situation right now, shorthanded and without adequate peronnel. A mid-season coaching change would be disruptive, but to be honest, this team looks to be on a one-and-out trajectory as it is. The longer Cuban keeps Nellie, the longer it's going to be before things start to head in the right direction.

Pay now, pay later. Six of one, half a dozen of another.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Psychedelic Fuzz


[
I might be the only poster here who likes Don Nelson...but that crap should stop. Nellie can play three point guards, a tapdancing dwarf and a drag queen for all I care as long as he acts like he really believes it will work.

Well Dennis Rodman is contemplating a comeback. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

One more humiliation like Utah, and I'd try anything.
Come to think of it, the wheelchair mavs had one player who seemed like he could score at will...

[Big Boy Laroux]

can't believe i haven't posted on this thread.

just wanted to agree by saying yes, nellie should go.

[Evilmav2]

I might be the only poster here who likes Don Nelson

You're not the only one.

That said, as much as I love Nellie, watching him throwing Fortson and Marquis Daniels into last night's game for extended minutes while keeping Bradley chained to the bench angered me and brought back flashbacks of all of the times that similar Big Don dereliction has hurt us over the last few years.

Kirilenko and co. were running a dunk/layup line on us last night, and the one man who could have ended it was kept on the bench until garbage time, when he finally showed us that he is still the rebounding, shot-blocking, disruptive force that he has been in the past. I have been extending the benefit of the doubt to Nelson about his not playing Bradley recently, assuming that Bradley still might be legitimately hurt, but last night's game put the lie to that assumption.

If Bradley was healthy enough to play very effectively against Utah's starters in garbage time, just why the goshdarned hell wasn't he played when his defensive presence might have kept us in the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? We continue to be gutted defensively by our lack of shot-blocking presence, and with apologies to Mamadou N’diaye fans, Shawn Bradley is the only man on our roster with the ability to staunch this gushing wound.

I am one of your biggest fans Big Don, but for goodness sake, speed up your pace in becoming the all-time winningest coach in NBA history by PLAYING SHAWN BRADLEY!

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

You're not the only one.

That said, as much as I love Nellie, watching him throwing Fortson and Marquis Daniels into last night's game for extended minutes while keeping Bradley chained to the bench angered me and brought back flashbacks of all of the times that similar Big Don dereliction has hurt us over the last few years.

Kirilenko and co. were running a dunk/layup line on us last night, and the one man who could have ended it was kept on the bench until garbage time, when he finally showed us that he is still the rebounding, shot-blocking, disruptive force that he has been in the past. I have been extending the benefit of the doubt to Nelson about his not playing Bradley recently, assuming that Bradley still might be legitimately hurt, but last night's game put the lie to that assumption.

If Bradley was healthy enough to play very effectively against Utah's starters in garbage time, just why the goshdarned hell wasn't he played when his defensive presence might have kept us in the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? We continue to be gutted defensively by our lack of shot-blocking presence, and with apologies to Mamadou N’diaye fans, Shawn Bradley is the only man on our roster with the ability to staunch this gushing wound.

I am one of your biggest fans Big Don, but for goodness sake, speed up your pace in becoming the all-time winningest coach in NBA history by PLAYING SHAWN BRADLEY!

Ditto..

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Ditto..

Tritto..(?)

Nicely said.... for an evil guy.

[Cybertx]

Originally posted by: Psychedelic Fuzz
One more humiliation like Utah, and I'd try anything.
Come to think of it, the wheelchair mavs had one player who seemed like he could score at will...

Yeah Radja Bell[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: grab
"There are nights when I can see his warts, his deficiencies. Sometimes you want him to not take the gambles with the pass that he does. Maybe too many turnovers. Sometimes you say, 'What in the world is he thinking?' or 'Is he thinking at all?'" -- Don Nelson, on Antoine Walker.


Nothing. I was confused for two years. I didn't understand anything and I'm still confused." -- Gregg Popovich, on what he learned in his two years as an assistant to Don Nelson.

maybe walker is as confused as everyone else

You could be right. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[MavKikiNYC]

"Aloha Honolulu" by Poi Dog Pondering:

Aloha, Honolulu, here I come with some friends of mine
Half of them the Hawaiian kind
The other half just need a little sunshine
On the isle of Oahu, the day is just begun
Relax is number one
"Don't rush me haole, there's plenty of sun"
"Did you bring the lotion? You know your skin is awful white"
Yeah, I brought the lotion, spread it on my broad daylight.
Now I'm free sky stylin on the shiny island
all the peoples smilin', and brother let me tell ya I'm smilin' too.

[dude1394]

Gosh I hate these threads. It's painfully obvious that last nights loss was all nellies fault. It was his coaching that caused this type of shooting:
Player Shooting
Dirk Nowitzki 1-10
Antoine Walker 1-7
Michael Finley 1-5
Steve Nash 1-5
Danny Fortson 0-1
Total 4-28

It was nellie's coaching that had the mavericks turning it over 3 less than the pacers.
It was nellie's coaching that had the mavericks getting 2 less steals than the pacers.
It was nellie's coaching that gave the pacers 2 more offensive rebounds than the mavericks.
It was nellie's coaching that gave the mavericks 1 less block than the pacers.

Yea it's all nellies fault. He never pulled anyone out for not playing defense (dirk), he never put anyone in for defense(shawn)..

The ONLY gripe I have about nellie last night was that if he's going to have Travis Best on the roster he had durn well better play him when stevie is hurt. Either play the guy or get rid of him and bring someone on who he's willing to play.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

You're not the only one.

That said, as much as I love Nellie, watching him throwing Fortson and Marquis Daniels into last night's game for extended minutes while keeping Bradley chained to the bench angered me and brought back flashbacks of all of the times that similar Big Don dereliction has hurt us over the last few years.

I am one of your biggest fans Big Don, but for goodness sake, speed up your pace in becoming the all-time winningest coach in NBA history by PLAYING SHAWN BRADLEY!

Evilmav... I don't know if you watched the game but nellie played shawn about as long as he could. I had this discussion with kg a couple of days ago and to think that nellie does not WANT to play shawn just doesn't make sense to me (imho). Shawn HAS been legitimately hurt, watching him trying to just walk around the arena before the last couple of games has been painful to watch.

Also in the startelegram today bradley says he's still having back spasms and plans some sort of shot soon.

[Hitman]

Nellie has to go.

There is no way around it.

Give me Eric Musselman, Pat Riley, Mike Krzyzewski, Chuck Daly, some guy from Europe, anybody.

Don Nelson seems like a great guy to have a few beers with. But he is not a great NBA basketball coach, despite the win total.

[dude1394]

You changed my mind hitman. Although none of the facts (win totals, spares you mentioned) back up your opnion, your great enthusiasm has changed my mind.

[mavsfanforever]

Actually I like the list hitman gave. Most of them are defensive mided coaches. I am not sure how effective chuck daly would be at this point.

[Turkey]

Nellie's an old coach who used all his bags of tricks. But its not all Nellie's fault, after all didn't Nellie say that he traded Lafrenz because of Fineley's assurance that Walker was good in light that he knew little of Walker? This leads me to say that we should not only get rid of Nellie, but Walker and Fineley too!!!

[dude1394]

Sure you can like them all you want. But Riley couldn't hold his job in miami, couldn't get into the playoffs in the east. What's not to like.

Mike Krzyzewki?? Chuck Daly, some guy from EUROPE(FOR GOODNESS SAKES) it's a ridiculous list imho. But this is a ridiculous thread so it does fit.

[Chiwas]

Everything needs a change in some point.

Dallas needs it already.

[dude1394]

chiwas you may be right. I think the big 3 has taken us as far as we can go.

[MavsFanFinley]

Nellie's an old coach who used all his bags of tricks. But its not all Nellie's fault, after all didn't Nellie say that he traded Lafrenz because of Fineley's assurance that Walker was good in light that he knew little of Walker? This leads me to say that we should not only get rid of Nellie, but Walker and Fineley too!!!

Turkey, you completely misunderstood what Finley's part was in the Walker trade. They asked him about Walker's attitude. Would he come here and take on a lesser role? Would he be a problem in the locker room, etc... Finley said he has a good attitude and wouldn't cause a problem like that. And so far, he hasn't done so.

And Finley and Walker are pretty good friends. They work out and play games in Chicago during the summers.

[Turkey]

Oh

[Simon2]

I feel that Nellie's tenure only goes to the end of this year. If the Mavs don't go far into the playoffs, Nellie is gone. I bet Cuban is just itching to find a way to get rid of him. The "no defense" approach must be eating at Cuban.

[Kid California]

Date: Wed May 12, 1999 7:22 pm
Subject: Fire Don Nelson



am a big MAVERICKS fan but this year they are
good but not good enough. They beat the spurs rockets
jazz t-wolves all good playoff teams who lost to the
mavs. Look at what the Knicks did after they fired Don
nelson went to the championship game see it is all just
a matter of a great coach and Phil Jackson is still
out there and you know he can make you a winner with
the talent we got so all I am saying is give tha Mavs
a shot at winning fire Nelson


This guy called it first