Stern denies Dallas' protest from loss to Indiana

[DirkFTW]

MIAMI -- NBA commissioner David Stern granted a game protest Friday by Miami Heat, ruling that Dwyane Wade’s sucker punch to an opponent’s groin, incorrectly counted as an offensive foul on Wade, did directly and conclusively alter the outcome of the game.
The referee mistakenly thought Wade was on defense with 9:59 left in the second quarter of Miami’s 108-82 loss on Nov. 23. Stern awarded Miami the win and ordered the referee’s eyes be “adjusted.”


Stern decided against a replay of the game because there were 34 minutes remaining at the time of the error, giving Wade "substantial opportunity to seize the game with his deific hands and pound it into submission, pounding it as only he knows how" according to a statement released by the NBA.


NBA’s unwritten rules permit Dwyane Wade extra foul shots before the end of a game, but the rule was inadvertently not invoked until after the final buzzer had sounded.


Stern banned all opportunities for comment.

[foglemann]

Bass Rebound (Off:4 Def:5) 2:09
2:04 Dunleavy Foul:Shooting (6 PF)
Harris Free Throw 1 of 2 missed 2:04
Team Rebound 2:04
2:04 Dunleavy Substitution replaced by Daniels
Harris Free Throw 2 of 2 (24 PTS) 2:04
[DAL 102-104]


So how is it that Dunleavy fouls out of the game, but can still be on the court for Harris's first free throw??????

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by foglemann

Bass Rebound (Off:4 Def:5) 2:09
2:04 Dunleavy Foul:Shooting (6 PF)
Harris Free Throw 1 of 2 missed 2:04
Team Rebound 2:04
2:04 Dunleavy Substitution replaced by Daniels
Harris Free Throw 2 of 2 (24 PTS) 2:04
[DAL 102-104]


So how is it that Dunleavy fouls out of the game, but can still be on the court for Harris's first free throw??????

Players cant come off/onto the court until after the first FT has been shot. That's why you always see subs happen inbetween 2 FT's.

[dude1394]

Actually I thought that the tv broadcasters were thinking that was a missed call as well. That was a really weird game I thought.

[nowhereman]

So if they had replayed that game, wouldn't that be pretty incongrous with the "don't burn guys out, take a few extra losses" position?

anyway, letting the league know is pretty much all we can do, and that should at least make it to where they try to be more accountable. Which is all we really want to do. Cuban is big on being the impetus for change guy.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Actually I thought that the tv broadcasters were thinking that was a missed call as well. That was a really weird game I thought.

The FT thing? It wasn't a missed call. You can't change the on court lineup until after the first FT.

Or were you talking to someone else....

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

The FT thing? It wasn't a missed call. You can't change the on court lineup until after the first FT.

Or were you talking to someone else....

No that they called the foul on the wrong guy.

[foglemann]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Players cant come off/onto the court until after the first FT has been shot. That's why you always see subs happen inbetween 2 FT's.

Even if the player that is waiting to be subbed has fouled out of the game? So a player that has fouled out can still be on the court for the first free throw???

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by foglemann

Even if the player that is waiting to be subbed has fouled out of the game? So a player that has fouled out can still be on the court for the first free throw???

Correct. But it's not like it matters. The person who fouled out isn't actually getting to play any more by simply being on the court for the first FT.

[MFFL]

I saw part of this posted and thought I would post the rest.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HoopsHype.com Columns

Protest challenge is a brilliant move
by Dusty Garza / May 14, 2004

Get this. One of the last (and well remembered) protests successfully submitted by an NBA team was presented by the Spurs in December of 1982 for a problem they had against the Los Angeles Lakers.

How wicked is that?

The Spurs had lost a 137-132 double-overtime game to the Los Angeles Lakers, but argued that the outcome was tainted by a play occurring with three seconds left in regulation.

In that memorable game, the Spurs were ahead, 116-114, with the Lakers' Norm Nixon at the line for the second of two free throws. Instead of releasing the ball, Nixon faked a shot, drawing members of both teams into the lane. After some confusion, a double-lane violation was called by the officials and a jump ball was held at center court. Los Angeles controlled the tip and scored the game-tying basket.

San Antonio successfully argued that the correct call should have been to make Nixon shoot the free throw. The league agreed and the final three seconds of the game were replayed – four months later (when the teams met again). The Spurs won – not only that game, but the previously scheduled one which was played immediately following the protested contest.

In what has become one of the oddest NBA trivia facts ever, the San Antonio Spurs go down in history as the NBA team that beat the Lakers twice on the same night.

Now, if the Spurs want to stay alive, they’ll have to beat the Lakers twice – again.

Following what may go down as one of the most incredible finishes in playoff history – one which featured two lead changes with less than a single second remaining – the Spurs filed a protest with the league office.

The Spurs believe that the desperation catch-and-turn shot hit by Derek Fisher of the Los Angeles Lakers should have been disallowed by the officiating crew due to the fact that – among other things – the shot clock was started late by a member (or members) of the officiating crew, therefore providing Fisher additional time to get off his incredible game winning shot.

The Spurs could cite at least two rules from the official NBA Rule Book which, if interpreted correctly, could provide solid footing for another successful and historical protest.

Let’s break this down. Quick human biology lesson:

On average, human reaction time is three-quarters of a second. That means, if we filmed you as someone fired a pistol in the air behind you, we could then observe a filmed replay showing your “delayed” reaction to the loud noise time and again.

If we timed that same observable reaction and tested the theory on a hundred different people of various ages and sexes, we would find that the vast majority of them would react to the shot no sooner than three-quarters of a second later. No one – and I mean no one – would react immediately. Even to something as startling as that.

Now let’s apply what we’ve learned to Thursday night’s game.

In the NBA, all three officials (in this case Dan Crawford, Ron Garretson, and Joe Forte) have a pager-like remote clock-starting device on their belt. Unless one of them was Superman, none of them could not have hit their clock-start buttons sooner than three-quarters of a second after Derek Fisher first touched the ball.

So, by default, any lawyer (or Laker fan) would argue that the officials started the clock as quickly as humanly possible.

The only problem is… It’s against the rules.

If one accepts the “fast as humanly possible” argument, then Fisher was given a minimum of an extra three-quarters of a second to make the basket after he touched the ball.

And guess what?

That is precisely what the video replays show!

Fisher caught the ball, turned, and was in mid-air before the clock even started.

So in effect, the Lakers were unofficially given eight-tenths of a second total (not four-tenths) to get their shot into the basket.

And so, Derek Fisher was able to grab victory from the hands of the Spurs and exchange it for stunning defeat – all within... Well... More time than the official clock showed.

But alas, the NBA (a place insiders lovingly call Nothin’ But Attorneys) has a “back-up” rule to deal with exactly this type of scenario.

It states:

Regardless of when the horn or red light operates to signify the end of a period, the officials will ultimately make the final decision on whether to allow or disallow a successful field goal.

Oh yes. And just to make sure everything works out, there is another rule :

No less than three-tenths of a second must expire on the game clock when a player secures possession of an inbounds pass and then attempts a field goal.

That didn't happen. Did it?

Ultimately, what this means is that it was up to the discretion of the officials to allow the basket. Given all the science and evidence we’ve discussed even as they reviewed and watched the replays, they still decided that the play was “fair” and that the basket counted.

Ouch!

Immediately after the game, Spurs officials went to work compiling data and filing official forms that needed to get to the league office before midnight.

So convinced are they that the league’s own rules were violated by not overturning Fisher’s shot, that they paid the mandatory $10,000 fee that must accompany any official protest. If a team’s protest prevails, the team’s money will be refunded. If it doesn’t the league keeps it for their coffers.

Now, lets’ be realistic here.

If this protest were being reviewed in a court of law, the Spurs might actually have a descent shot of winning one or perhaps even two arguments related to disallowing “the shot" – therefore also winning the game. But this is the NBA and every one that cheers against the Lakers knows their hard-court is often not as “fair.”

So in my opinion, the NBA will point to the very rule I presented above, underline the part that reads: “the officials will ultimately make the final decision” (which they did – even if it was the wrong decision) and send the protest paperwork back without the $10,000 check.

Given all of that, one can argue that no matter what, the move by San Antonio's Gregg Popovich and RC Buford to file the protest was simply brilliant.

Why?

- The Spurs have nothing to lose. (Except $10,000 of course.)

- The Spurs will get a much more *ahem* professional officiating crew than they’ve had waiting for them at Staples Center during their most recent trips there.

- I have this sneaking suspicion that the actions of the officiating crew assigned to Game 6 (regardless of their professionalism) will be watched under a microscope. NBA fans everywhere whose favorite teams have suffered at the hands of the “Laker Rules” will tune in en force to see if the NBA really does have a “hidden agenda” against small market teams.

Feel better yet?

Sigh.

It all reminds me of the words first spoken by Mahatma Ghandi:

"Heroes are made in the hour of defeat."

[Flacolaco]

Fisher caught the ball, turned, and was in mid-air before the clock even started

Emperor Stern says....These aren't the droids you're looking for

[chumdawg]

A couple quick rebuttals to the argument in the post quoted above:

1) The official in that instance was not necessarily in a "reflex" environment. He could have seen the ball being inbounded to Fisher, and timed his click accordingly. Humans can time a click to WAY better than .75 seconds precision. It is entirely conceivable that the official could have clicked to start the clock at precisely the moment that Fisher gained possession, given that he had the luxury of watching the ball arrive at Fisher.

2) If (1) is not given credence and the study is deemed to hold sway, then it follows that the official who stopped the clock on the previous play robbed the official game clock of at least .75 seconds, owing to the innate human inability to react faster than that. So the Lakers should have had an additional .75 seconds, at least, available for their final possession.

It is no surprise that the protest was denied, given such unassailable logic.

[G-Man]

I want something of value. Like an admission that Bennet Salvadore never ref another Mavs game again.

The fact that he was too obstinate to correct something so obvious shows a deep seated anti-Mavs bias. Clearly he is p*ssed that his own performance in that Miami game has tainted his reputation forever. I'm p*ssed too, but I can't do anything about it. He can, and he does. Here we see that his judgement is clouded, his fairness is again in question and his predjudice is laid bare.

Just keep your f*cking crooked ref away from the Mavs, and I'll be happy. From now on, every time he shows up on our court, everyone will be watching to see how he screws us this time. For a league with a referee gambling scandal, how can they permit this guy to cause further damage to the league?

I'm not a Stern hater. I give him huge credit for preventing strikes and avoiding the crap hockey and baseball are going through. But his hatred of Cuban has created a huge blind spot. He needs to realize it and deal with it. If Salvadore does this again in a playoff game, it will blow up way worse than Barry Bonds head did.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by MFFL

On average, human reaction time is three-quarters of a second. That means, if we filmed you as someone fired a pistol in the air behind you, we could then observe a filmed replay showing your “delayed” reaction to the loud noise time and again.

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Ware is soo amazingly fast that he was called offsides on this play.

Ware is superhuman.

[Usually Lurkin]

I really don't have any idea how things can be evaluated with these two rules.

Regardless of when the horn or red light operates to signify the end of a period, the officials will ultimately make the final decision on whether to allow or disallow a successful field goal.

No less than three-tenths of a second must expire on the game clock when a player secures possession of an inbounds pass and then attempts a field goal.

Ones subjective, and the other is objective. Which means the first rule has to be used to decide whether or not the second rule should be used (which means that the second is useless, right?).

It seems that this would trump all:

Fisher caught the ball, turned, and was in mid-air before the clock even started.

Can't you count film frames to see whether he took more time to catch, turn, and shoot than existed in the game?

Protests of other whistles and clock issues would be separate, but there is already a mechanism for judging last second shots rather than shots earlier in the game, so why not extend that qualification?

[Jack.Kerr]

NBA Calls for Do - Over in Hawks - Heat Game

Article Tools Sponsored By
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 11, 2008

Filed at 4:52 p.m. ET

ATLANTA (AP) -- The Atlanta Hawks and Miami Heat must replay the final 51.9 seconds of their game last month because the NBA said the official scorer ruled incorrectly that Shaquille O'Neal fouled out. This will be the first time since 1982 the league has sent teams back on the court for a replay.

The Hawks won 117-111 at home in overtime Dec. 19. The NBA said Friday the replay will be held before the teams' next scheduled game -- March 8 in Atlanta. Play will start from the time after O'Neal's disputed sixth foul.

The Hawks also were fined $50,000, with commissioner David Stern ruling the team was ''grossly negligent'' in failing to address the mistake.

The protest is the first granted by the NBA since December 1982, when then-NBA commissioner Larry O'Brien upheld a request for a replay by the San Antonio Spurs after their 137-132 double-overtime loss to the Los Angeles Lakers the previous month.

The Spurs and Lakers finished the game in April 1983, with San Antonio winning 117-114.

[Robillion]

same official score or any of the same refs as the previous mavs vs hawks game? if so, that is def. questionable...

[rabbitproof]

Why does it have to be the Heat?

That's all I'm sayin'.

[dude1394]

So I guess the home teams are responsible for the scorers. And they get fined, but refs never make mistakes and never get fined...(they just make a bundle shaving points).

Sure have seen a lot of the new oversight, haven't you?

[bcrav4]

Stern is just taking out the little guys (the score keepers) so nobody will pay attention to the big guys (the refs). [Note: In this scenario the players don't matter, they are just transient beings meant to take the court for a few hours at a time for entertainment purposes.]

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I guess the home teams are responsible for the scorers. And they get fined, but refs never make mistakes and never get fined...(they just make a bundle shaving points).

Sure have seen a lot of the new oversight, haven't you?

It does go to show you where Stern's priorities are. Oh well, I guess you have to be satisfied that Stern is willing to correct his mistakes on occasion. Right?

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It does go to show you where Stern's priorities are. Oh well, I guess you have to be satisfied that Stern is willing to correct his mistakes on occasion. Right?

As long as he can place the blame somewhere else.

[chumdawg]

It's a vast right-wing conspiracy!

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It does go to show you where Stern's priorities are. Oh well, I guess you have to be satisfied that Stern is willing to correct his mistakes on occasion. Right?

This is the first game to be replayed under Stern's tenure as commissioner. They seem to have some wacky rules about what justifies a do-over. Is NOT having O'Neal on the floor for the last :51 of a game more reason to re-play a game than an officiating error that results in points-on-the-board? Say, a field goal counted as a 3-pointer when it was a 2-pointer? Or an inconsistently called technical foul?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

This is the first game to be replayed under Stern's tenure as commissioner. They seem to have some wacky rules about what justifies a do-over. Is NOT having O'Neal on the floor for the last :51 of a game more reason to re-play a game than an officiating error that results in points-on-the-board? Say, a field goal counted as a 3-pointer when it was a 2-pointer? Or an inconsistently called technical foul?

I'd assume he's relying on the fact that the 3-pointer occurred early in the game and the Mavs had "plenty of chances to win".

Again, I don't really care, though I do think that's bogus logic considering that a 3 pointer counts the same whether it's at the beginning of the game or the end.

[Bookit]

The fact that Troy Murphy's feet were both at least a foot inside the line and that there wasn't even a question whether it was 3 pointer, I would say that the Indiana scorer's table completely screwed the game up for the Mavs too. I guess Stern didn't want to replay the entire game since the scoring error occured in the second quarter.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Bookit

The fact that Troy Murphy's feet were both at least a foot inside the line and that there wasn't even a question whether it was 3 pointer, I would say that the Indiana scorer's table completely screwed the game up for the Mavs too. I guess Stern didn't want to replay the entire game since the scoring error occured in the second quarter.

On the other hand, both the scorer and the officials had more than half a game to correct the error and failed to do so. It seems that everyone involved there should be fined and/or suspended and/or fired.

[G-Man]

Clearly, the Miami Mafia has photos of Stern doing an underaged boy or something. Its just too weird that the Heat gets the benefit of the first game replayed in decades, at the same time the ref who screwed the Mavs in Indiana is the same one who played 6th man for Miami, finding phantom fouls against the Mavs in the Finals.

Justice requires when they replay that game, Shaq be in street clothes, so brother Bennett suits up in his place and makes the key shot to win for his team.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Clearly, the Miami Mafia has photos of Stern doing an underaged boy or something. Its just too weird that the Heat gets the benefit of the first game replayed in decades, at the same time the ref who screwed the Mavs in Indiana is the same one who played 6th man for Miami, finding phantom fouls against the Mavs in the Finals.

Justice requires when they replay that game, Shaq be in street clothes, so brother Bennett suits up in his place and makes the key shot to win for his team.

I think the Heat has Stern like Chris Arnold has the Mavs....gotta be dirt somewhere.

[horse900703]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/156/

I have no idea if this is real.

lol~~