in 8 minutes of play

[mnmpeanut]

well, if we're gonna bench all the people who don't give enough effort on the defensive end, we'll be looking at aj, bell, griff, najera, and popeye as our lineup.

bradley is a defensive player. defense is about effort. not timing, not rhythm, none of the things that affect an offensive player. you let an offensive player whose in a slump shoot his way out of it. it doesn't work the same for a defensive player. either the player you're guarding schools you or he doesn't. if he does, it's because of one of two factors: either he isn't a favorable matchup or you're not playing hard enough.

nellie is always gonna be harder on his defensive players (najera, bradley, griff, bell) than his offensive players because he knows the majority of their game is built on effort.

i'm pretty sure nellie's thinking goes something like this: i put bradley in, on a bad night, he bitches at the refs, he's not in the game mentally and gets toasted and i get nothing on the offensive end. i put nickie v in, yeah, he gets toasted, but there's always the possibility that he hits the big three or goes on a 5 for 6 shooting streak that gets us a lead. that goes for nash, fin, dirk, and raef.

i don't always agree with that thinking, but there is some logic to it.

[SeriousSummer]

The Mavericks didn't want to play Bradley last night because of the knee injury against Sacramento. (Of course, as all Dallas residents know, lack of facts is no impediment to a good conspiracy theory--if you're not from Dallas meet me down at the Grassy Knoll and I'll explain).

In general, though, I do think Nellie dislikes Bradley and therefore plays him a little less than he should. I think Bradley disrespects the game of basketball. Too often he doesn't try, doesn't even care. When that attitude shows, Nellie jerks him out of the game and he probably won't go back in.

At those times, look at Bradley as a reverse Najera--his lacksadaisical attitude is just as infectious as Eddie's energy. How can you ask Dirk to play 50 minutes and grap 18 rebounds while playing on a bad ankle when the guy next to him isn't even trying?

Nellie probably needs to choke down his bile and play Bradley anyway sometimes because even when he's half-trying he's still 7'6", but if you love the game like Nellie (and probably everyone here) does, it's a tough swallow.

As for inconsistent use explaining lack of effort--I don't buy it. It might explain confusion, like Raef's. But if you want to play, then you will use the minutes you get to try to get more. Did you see how hard Bell played last night after a DNP-CD against Sacramento? Bradley doesn't seem to care if he plays or not. Nellie can't stand that attitude, so I think he plays Bradley less than a purely objective analysis of his effectiveness would indicate.

[Murphy3]

actually, i don't buy that..i believe bradley DOES want to play. he's inconsistent but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the desire this year.. he shows more fire than most of the players on the team..he's willing to mix it up. no, it's not always effective, but he is willing to do so

[dude1394]

If you wanted to put the same criteria on van excel as you are saying is being put on bradley, then ok but who ever said nellie had to be fair OR even-handed.

But nellie has a lot more options for shawn than he does for van excel? What is his choice, aj?? Nick is always going to get regular playing time, shawn doesn't have to.

[dude1394]

<< actually, i don't buy that..i believe bradley DOES want to play. he's inconsistent but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the desire this year.. he shows more fire than most of the players on the team..he's willing to mix it up. no, it's not always effective, but he is willing to do so >>



then you don't buy that &quot;dislikes him&quot; either, right?

[Murphy3]

nellie has an option with NVE
only play him as a backup PG

Nellie has that option.

unfortunately, nellie really doesn't have an option to playing bradley. If he doesn't play bradley, it'll b a short playoff run. the mavs need his contributions in the playoffs.

besides the big three, he might be the next most important player come playoff time. No, not the next best..definitely not, but his contributions are definitely needed

[madape]

Bradley is the only guy on the team that isn't afraid to get in someone's face and let him have it. He is the only Maverick capable of getting under opponents skin and infuriating them. When he's pumped up, he plays with more fire than anyone else on the team, including Najera. Nothing pumps up the team, or the crowd, more than a big play by Bradley. He hits the floor for loose balls. He dives out of bounds to save possessions. He pushes people Webber after a hard foul. He tells Vlade to &quot;Shut the fuck up&quot;. In fact, he plays with so much emotion, that it often ends up costing him technicals. I don't understand how people can one minute berate Shawn for his temper, and then state that he plays like he doesn't care. It just shows that no matter what Shawn does, idiots will find some way to criticize him. What are they going to say next? Shawn sucks because he's not tall enough?


P.S. As stated by a number of people in the Maverick organization, no one worked harder this summer than Shawn... His laziness in the offseason is just another example of a synthesized myth perpetrated by the biased Dallas media and consumed by idiot fans like serioussummer.

[Murphy3]

i don't agree with 100% of everything you said madape..but, the key points, you're right on the button.

Nellie needs an excuse to justify playing small ball...he needs a whipping boy and it's bradley.

Nellie, just be honest. Tell us that you play nve, nash, and fin on the court at the same time because that is what ou prefer. Don't tell us that the reason you do so is because someone else is inconsistent. If that were the case, NVE would be in the doghouse deeper than bradley.

You love small ball. You would play 3 guards and 2 small forwards at all times if you could get away with it.

If it means sacrificing offensive firepower, then you're against it

[Bayliss]

Bradley will never be an All-Star center, but he doesn't need to be on this team. We don't need someone that can put up huge points from the center position. We need a center that can stabilize the defense, make the other team fear going inside, rebound the ball offensively and defensively.

We have a center that is capable of that. Nellie however isn't capable of playing him consistently.

And therein lies the problem. A coach unwilling to play a vital part of our team.

[kg_veteran]

<< If you wanted to put the same criteria on van excel as you are saying is being put on bradley, then ok but who ever said nellie had to be fair OR even-handed. >>



I'm not lobbying for Nellie to be fair to Shawn. I don't think Nellie owes Shawn anything. I think Nellie owes it to the team, however, to put them in the best position to win. And to do that, he's got to use Bradley. Consistently.



<< But nellie has a lot more options for shawn than he does for van excel? What is his choice, aj?? Nick is always going to get regular playing time, shawn doesn't have to. >>



I disagree with this. Bradley and Eschmeyer are really the only legitimate centers on the roster. Raef plays there by default, but he's really a PF. So where does that leave you? In my mind, if Nellie wants to put the team in the best position to win, he really doesn't have any option but to play Shawn consistently.

[Murphy3]

You're right KG, nellie doesn't have alot of options at center. the option he chooses way to often is no center at all (nve, nash, and fin)


however, there is always an option to going with nve, fin and nash

[kg_veteran]

There are numerous options now at SG and SF with Finley, Griff, Najera, Wahad, Bell, and Williams. There are many options at PF with Dirk, Najera, and Raef. But at PG and C, unless Avery comes off the IR, there are only really two options at each.

[Murphy3]

now, if the backup PG will stay a backup PG and not a 2 guard..and if the 2 guard won't be moved to the 3 spot...i think we're ok

then we'd be able to play a center at the center position.
Wow, what an idea

[dude1394]

<< nellie has an option with NVE
only play him as a backup PG

Nellie has that option.

unfortunately, nellie really doesn't have an option to playing bradley. If he doesn't play bradley, it'll b a short playoff run. the mavs need his contributions in the playoffs.

besides the big three, he might be the next most important player come playoff time. No, not the next best..definitely not, but his contributions are definitely needed >>



so you play him even if he's stinking it up, right? I'm not buying that.

[dude1394]

<< Donnie, just be honest. Tell us that you play nve, nash, and fin on the court at the same time because that is what ou prefer. Don't tell us that the reason you do so is because someone else is inconsistent. If that were the case, NVE would be in the doghouse deeper than bradley.

You love small ball. You would play 3 guards and 2 small forwards at all times if you could get away with it.

If it means sacrificing offensive firepower, then you're against it >>



I just changed nellie-&gt;donnie since donnies opinion is the same. I understand that both nellie and donnie only want to play small ball and that this board knows better, but what in the world is this board going to do if someone asks del harris and he ALSO wants to put steve/nick out there together. ooopsss.

[dude1394]

nellie is great.

[Murphy3]

nve stinks it up as often or more oftn than bradley..so what's your point dude?

[dude1394]

the point is that we constantly rag on nellie for small ball (nick/nash together) and donnie does the same thing. And when asked about it directly he said so. The point is that even though this board touts donnie as not playing &quot;small ball&quot; he does and endorses it.

That's two head coaches against this board's opinion. Those head coaches DO carry some weight. Maybe they are right...

[kg_veteran]

<< the point is that we constantly rag on nellie for small ball (nick/nash together) and donnie does the same thing. And when asked about it directly he said so. The point is that even though this board touts donnie as not playing &quot;small ball&quot; he does and endorses it.

That's two head coaches against this board's opinion. Those head coaches DO carry some weight. Maybe they are right... >>



Donnie does the same thing? What, one time? Last night was the first I've seen or heard of Donnie playing the two point guard lineup together. Hardly proof of Donnie's philosophy on basketball or the Underdog Ball lineup. You're gonna have to come up with more than that.

[dude1394]

<<

<< the point is that we constantly rag on nellie for small ball (nick/nash together) and donnie does the same thing. And when asked about it directly he said so. The point is that even though this board touts donnie as not playing &quot;small ball&quot; he does and endorses it.

That's two head coaches against this board's opinion. Those head coaches DO carry some weight. Maybe they are right... >>



Donnie does the same thing? What, one time? Last night was the first I've seen or heard of Donnie playing the two point guard lineup together. Hardly proof of Donnie's philosophy on basketball or the Underdog Ball lineup. You're gonna have to come up with more than that. >>



Donnie Nelson, son of Don Nelson was asked on 103.3 directly by newey(I am paraphrasing). &quot;Why do you have both nick and nash on the floor at the same time during crunch time. Why don't you have more defensive players out there instead of those two?&quot; Donnies response was that he believes in putting the best 5 players on the floor during crunch time and that nick is one of the best 5 players on the team.

Right out of his mouth.

[kg_veteran]

Of course he's going to toe the company line so to speak, but when has Donnie been coaching and actually done that? Also, if that's what he really believes, then that's disappointing.

[dude1394]

<< Of course he's going to toe the company line so to speak, but when has Donnie been coaching and actually done that? Also, if that's what he really believes, then that's disappointing. >>



Sounds like you are spinning to me about the company line. he didn't have to say that, could have said, matchups, nick hot, etc, but he didn't.

So again there is at least two coaches that think there is a time and place for it (including adelman last week I might add).

Are you dissapointed because you might be wrong?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

Again, I'll ask my question: When has Donnie the coach actually put the two point guard lineup on the floor down the stretch of a close game?

Also, comparing the situation to Sacramento is apples and oranges, IMO, because if Jackson is on the floor late for Sacramento it's usually because he can score while still having the ability to guard shooting guards. Nick doesn't have that ability.

Wasn't spinning about the company line. I concede that Donnie may have actually believed what he said.

As for me being wrong, that won't be based upon what Don or Donnie says, it will be based upon results. When they win a title using the Underdog Ball lineup, come talk to me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

are you saying that little nellie should contradict his dad, the head coach of the team?

it makes perfect sense that he's walking the company line.

and kg has said a million times that he doesn't mind nash and nve in the game together..that it's the nash, fin, nve lineup that hurts the mavs

[kg_veteran]

<< and kg has said a million times that he doesn't mind nash and nve in the game together..that it's the nash, fin, nve lineup that hurts the mavs >>



I think you're right. I may have said that a million times. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

You just can't put five guys on the floor and not have one of them be a defensive-oriented player. Who does that? It doesn't work.

[Murphy3]

it works..but it has to be against teams of inferior talent.

it won't work come playoff time against a Minny, LAL, SAS or Sad Sac

[Nellie]

I have an angle on small ball that I posted yesturday that might be relevant in this thread here. There is a business aspect of this team that needs to be looked at. The Nelsons are administrators as well as coaches...they have a business to run. &quot;5 best players on the floor&quot; translates to &quot;the highest paid players on the floor that I need to keep happy.&quot;

Small ball may not be all albout Xs and Os. Another reason that Nick must go.

[kg_veteran]

I've argued this point before. I think that, to a certain extent, NVE may be on the floor at the end of games in order to keep him happy rather than because that's the most effective unit. I don't buy the &quot;five highest paid players&quot; argument, though, because Raef isn't always on the floor at the end of the game (often it's Eddie), and the Mavericks haven't made a practice of justifying the salaries they pay. If you really analyze the roster, the majority of the Mavericks are overpaid.

[Nellie]

I know what you are saying KG. Technicaly, Tariq should be out there too if you are only looking at $$. I used that term loosely. Raef and Tariq don't need to be kept as happy as Nick.

[Murphy3]

obviously, NVE is more apt to become a problem if not happy..i don't think that's an issue with TAW or Raef.

but, in the end, i think it comes down to nellie wanting 5 scorers on the court whenever possible