Tim Hardaway hates gays. - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

No-one on earth would ever suggest David Duke is a repressed black man, nor would anyone suggest that Mahmud Ahmadinejad is a repressed jew. Why then is the default presumption that someone who hates homos is a homo?

You have to admit though that it's a lot easier for a gay man to pretend he's not gay then for a black man to pretend he's not black, eh? Colin Powell notwithstanding.

Quote:

certainly, a certain percentage of homosexuals are responsible for a great deal of homobashing. But if, say, 10% of males are homos, and if 50% of males hate homos, then it can't possibly be that all homo-haters are homos because there are more homo-hating males than homo males.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to imply it was always the case.

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amechi certainly didn't get a book deal because he has a penchant for interior decorating.

lol. That's funny.

Still, I just don't have a problem with what the guy has done. For one thing, it's like Cuban said, if you're a pro athlete who is gay, there's a lot of money to make from that! Would you turn that down? I don't think I would if I was gay and could play basketball to save my life.
But I think we're kidding ourselves if we say it's only about money and publicity. I don't see how what John has done cannot be a good thing for people growing up gay who happen to like to play sports, maybe even have a dream to play professionally one day.

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 02:13 PM

wurzborg -- duly noted, cheers....

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

A very valid point indeed......

Now, I hear choice and not a choice. I think people who say it is a choice are in fact right. It is a choice, just like it is a choice to be straight. If you are a man who likes men, you can still choose to only have sex with women. Much the same way a straight man can choose to have gay sex, even though he's not gay. A bit far fetched, but who you have sex with is definitely your choice. Who you'd like to have sex with....... another matter entirely.

;

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 02:22 PM

for the record, we prefer the term "inter-species erotica."

cheers

sifling · 02-15-2007, 02:57 PM

As a gay person who lurks on this board, this is fascinating discourse. I had no idea so much brazen ignorance, hatred and bigotry remained. I am truly shocked and saddened.

For all you who think homosexuality is a "choice," ask yourself this simple question:
Who would ever "choose" a lifestyle that leaves you vulnerable to this degree of hatred and bashing? Who would willingly, voluntarily raise their hand and exclaim: "Yes! I'd love to endure that for the rest of my life!"

This is my first and last post. Clearly, my type isn't welcome here.

Mavdog · 02-15-2007, 03:00 PM

the data and research do not say "opinion" they say "fact"

it is a FACT that homosexual behavior exists in all animal species.

it is a FACT that almost every species (this of course excludes mankind) does not have the capability to "choose" their sexual orientation.

ask yourself, with all of the hatred directed towards homosexuals, and hardaway is merely the latest to verbalize this deep seated prejudice, why would anyone "choose" to be homosexual?

sure, there are some who want to experiment with alternative lifestyles, and to experiment with homosexual sex. these are however the minority, and these are typically the people who do not proclaim themselves to be homosexual but rather bisexual. in other words, they just want to be kinky.

we don't wake up one morning and say "i think I will be heterosexual...". we are what we are, and so too are homosexuals.

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifling

This is my first and last post. Clearly, my type isn't welcome here.

sifling,

i'll let others speak for themselves, but as for me the only type that isn't welcome here is hte type that waltzes in and bitches about not being accepted without ever having posted before.

cheers

TheBlueVan · 02-15-2007, 03:10 PM

who the hell cares what tim hardaway says? people are entitled to their own opinions. granted, there is NO WAY that he should have said that, and im not trying to agree with or justify it, im just saying.

everyone has their own beliefs and opinions, some are just stupid enough to say 'em in a public setting. if you remove the moral component, which usually comes from some ones belief system/worldview/upbringing, everything is relative. IF everything is relative, people can say homosexuality is good or bad, neither is right. one opinion conflicts with religious conservatives, another with the politically correct. again, all i'm saying is let the man have his opinion, but there is no excuse for vehemently assaulting a group of people for any reason.

hate, passion and opinions are as human as breathing, so to ignore them or try to cover them up is not good. you could try to change his mind, but people are stubborn as well. in these sort of situations, the LESS ATTENTION THE BETTER. although, you have to wonder both why amaechi made such a big deal about coming out, hiring a publicist who saturated the internet with rumors of a player coming out, and why the hell tim hardaway decided to say what he did on radio

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the data and research do not say "opinion" they say "fact"

it is a FACT that homosexual behavior exists in all animal species.
...

are you saying we don't get to choose whether we act on our animal urges?
You'll probably find quite a few scientists who would argue that Tim Hardaway doesn't have a choice in how strongly he holds his in group/out group biases. That doesn't make the scientists right, and it doesn't make Tim's views right.

TheBlueVan · 02-15-2007, 03:12 PM

its huge knee-jerk politically correct reactions such as this that are leading to the resurgence of some factions of the KKK. i was watching a documentary about that on the discovery channel, it was one of the scariest, saddest things ive ever seen

mary · 02-15-2007, 03:16 PM

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Originally Posted by sifling

This is my first and last post. Clearly, my type isn't welcome here.

This board certainly has its share of idiots. But for the most part, people around here are pretty respectful of each other and each others' opinions, even when they do not agree. I feel pretty confident in saying that you would be welcomed as long as you brought something to the table of discussion.

If you happen to see someone being an ignorant asshole, its best just to ignore them and move on. Unless of course, you feel like jabbing with them, then put your gloves on. If you don't, then don't. In that respect, writing on a internet message board is really not that much different for "real" life.

Personally, if you have something to say, I welcome your opinion and your presence on this forum. Lord knows we could use some fresh thoughts/faces around here.

Unless of course you happen to be a fan of some OTHER basketball team - then you can take a flying leap off of a tall cliff.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 03:19 PM

;

TheBlueVan · 02-15-2007, 03:22 PM

YES! i go to one of the most liberal schools in america, and EVERYONE gets so pissed if you dont see things exactly their way. a lot of the PC crowd is even more narrow minded than the people they fight

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

YES! i go to one of the most liberal schools in america, and EVERYONE gets so pissed if you dont see things exactly their way. a lot of the PC crowd is even more narrow minded than the people they fight

certainly....

take sifling, above.....never posted in here before, but he's gets his panties in wad because he's already decided that many folks here are knuckle dragging hate-mongerers. How much more pre-judgmental can a person get than that?

oops....the panty wadding thing may have been a bit out of line given the context....

cheers

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

certainly....

take sifling, above.....never posted in here before, but he's gets his panties in wad because he's already decided that many folks here are knuckle dragging hate-mongerers. How much more pre-judgmental can a person get than that?

oops....the panty wadding thing may have been a bit out of line given the context....

cheers

Well, just so we're all clear on where we stand, you haven't really been helpful in this thread. Your comments have been pretty borderline and even over at times. You've said some things that I could understand someone getting offended by.

bernardos70 · 02-15-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifling

As a gay person who lurks on this board, this is fascinating discourse. I had no idea so much brazen ignorance, hatred and bigotry remained. I am truly shocked and saddened.

For all you who think homosexuality is a "choice," ask yourself this simple question:
Who would ever "choose" a lifestyle that leaves you vulnerable to this degree of hatred and bashing? Who would willingly, voluntarily raise their hand and exclaim: "Yes! I'd love to endure that for the rest of my life!"

This is my first and last post. Clearly, my type isn't welcome here.

Well, it's not a choice that you like men, but you could choose to only have sex with women. Not that you would enjoy it, but like I said, that's another matter entirely. You didn't choose who you like, but you chose who to have sex with. Your actions define you.

Just to be completely clear, I'll tell you a joke where I stand on the whole scheme of things, by Demetri Martin:

"I'm in a weird postion, because I like rainbows, but I"m not gay. So I have a T-shirt with a rainbow, but under that I had to write 'Not Gay.' But I'm not against gay people, so under that I had to write 'But Supportive.'....... It's just weird that a group took refracted light..... that's pretty greedy, gays!"

Murphy3 · 02-15-2007, 03:53 PM

AGay's make a choice to be agay..

With that being said, it's their choice. I don't agree with the lifestyle, but it really doesn't bother me more than alot of other things in life. If they want to go around having gay sex with each other, so be it. If they want to be agay and go around not having agay sex with each other, then so be it.

Gaydom has never really bothered me other than for the obvious reasons that have been mentioned over and over in this thread.....

The biggest issue here is this... Why in the hell does anyone care what Tim Hardaway has to say? Could he possibly be less singificant?

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 04:06 PM

duly noted...perhaps you can recommend a PC approved dictionary that i may reference henceforth?

also...if you think that a homosexual act is a sin which may condemn a person to an eternity in hell, don't bust my balls because I make no bones about having an aesthic, not moral but aesthetic, aversion to male-on-male homosexual practices.

cheers

Dirkadirkastan · 02-15-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It's getting to the point where it takes less courage to choose a gay lifestyle than it does to speak out against it.

Exactly. "Coming out of the closet" these days is overrated.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Exactly. "Coming out of the closet" these days is overrated.

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated, but if you're talking about a test of what sells on the market, I have to disagree. I think that plenty of people will buy John's new book, even if I'm not one of them. I'd go as far as to say many Americans think it's a pretty interesting story.
It's news. Perhaps ideally it shouldn't be a big deal at all, but I think there are a lot of reasons why it's a big story and because the media are a bunch of PC liberals isn't high on the list.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 04:24 PM

;

Mavdog · 02-15-2007, 04:27 PM

yes, that should be enough.

Flacolaco · 02-15-2007, 04:28 PM

This makes me wonder....and I'm asking a rare serious question here....has anyone on this board ever openly said they were gay?

(and please no names obviously, just a yes or no) I haven't been around very long, and would be interested to hear one way or the other.

sike · 02-15-2007, 04:29 PM

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Originally Posted by jthig32

How unfortunate.

And I disagree Hex, I think Hardaway has a hard time recovering from this in any way. The NBA already cut him off from his appearances surrounding the All Star game.

he is done.

its only ok to hate on Conservative Christians and Mormons...

Murphy3 · 02-15-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

This makes me wonder....and I'm asking a rare serious question here....has anyone on this board ever openly said they were gay?

(and please no names obviously, just a yes or no) I haven't been around very long, and would be interested to hear one way or the other.

Yes, someone has....

edited... I can't remember whether or not they said they were gay in the forum or gay via PM's... so, don't want anything in my post to give any clues as to who it was/is.

TheBlueVan · 02-15-2007, 04:36 PM

i have a side-note question. if you don't have a moral base to say that homosexuality is wrong, then how can you say its wrong if someone else says its bad

my point being, if there is no higher order of right and wrong or judgment, you cant come down on Hardaway for saying what he says, just like you can't come down on Amaechi for being gay. thats ALL politcal correctness is, a new kind of morality based on not hurting the feelings of a select few people, meanwhile insulting others

nikeball · 02-15-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Do you think heterosexual men and women should be ok sharing a lockerroom with straight members of the opposite sex? If some straight dude wanted to change in the women's lockerroom and shower with them, should he be allowed to? Even if he says he's not attracted to the woman-version of Greg Ostertag?

I think there is more to it than that. Society views unisex restrooms as very weird and out of the norm. (However in "Ally Mcbeal", they had a unisex -- and it promotes more team bonding/trust/closeness -- supposedly a study was done). Remember .. it was less than half a century ago when there were separate restrooms/buses/facilities for whites/blacks. Maybe in 50 years men and women will all share same lockerroom/shower/bathroom (ex. the movie "Starship Troopers" lol). But I don't think that will ever happen, because men and women are too different (and think differently). Most women, to be initmate/aroused by someone are caused more by feelings/emotions/closeness to another...and for most men it is purely physical. Thus the unisex will never work. Besides women and men's bodies are different. Women's restrooms have couches, less dirty, tampon dispenser to suit their needs. Where as we have filth, piss on floors, and stank. Also another reason why the co-ed locker room would not work is the way men view women as objects. In the restroom they will feel like they are being checked out the whole time, not private, and objectified.

Back to the topic of gay men sharing lockerroom with straight men. The way I feel is, if you are comfortable being naked in front of other men, why would it matter if he was gay or straight or not? Wouldn't it just be your own security/insecurity? I wouldn't be comfortable in naked in front of any man. It is just too weird.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

i have a side-note question. if you don't have a moral base to say that homosexuality is wrong, then how can you say its wrong if someone else says its bad

my point being, if there is no higher order of right and wrong or judgment, you cant come down on Hardaway for saying what he says, just like you can't come down on Amaechi for being gay. thats ALL politcal correctness is, a new kind of morality based on not hurting the feelings of a select few people, meanwhile insulting others

In my experience, very few people who don't think homosexuality is wrong think that morality is for the birds.

nikeball · 02-15-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

i have a side-note question. if you don't have a moral base to say that homosexuality is wrong, then how can you say its wrong if someone else says its bad

my point being, if there is no higher order of right and wrong or judgment, you cant come down on Hardaway for saying what he says, just like you can't come down on Amaechi for being gay. thats ALL politcal correctness is, a new kind of morality based on not hurting the feelings of a select few people, meanwhile insulting others

morality - is based on how you were raised. a sum of your whole life. thus everyone's will be different. i believe homosexuality is a sin based on what it said in the bible. but that doesnt mean gays should be treated with less respect

Tim Hardaway has his right to his own opinions but he shouldve kept it to himself. He is a public figure and needs to hold himself to higher standards for our children's sake. What separates us from animals is TACT and INHIBITIONS. Without them, we are no different than savage animals.

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 04:44 PM

certainly....

......to you, homosexuality is a sin just like lying on a tax return, or murdering a person in cold blood is a sin.

.....to me, homosexuality is gross, kind of like eating sushi. (unless, of course, we're talking about two hot young females. In this case homosexuality is not only acceptable, but quite fantastic in my humble opinion. Inasmuch as I have on several occassions celebrated homosexuality in this thread, I hope that no-one imagines that I'm a homo hater)

as for the way I express myself....i've never ask anyone to like anything I say, just argue back....also, in just this thread I've accused myself of bestiality--i don't ask anyone to take me more seriously than i take myself....

cheers

Dirkadirkastan · 02-15-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifling

As a gay person who lurks on this board, this is fascinating discourse. I had no idea so much brazen ignorance, hatred and bigotry remained. I am truly shocked and saddened.

I go to an extreme PC liberal college, so I know what you're getting at. Anyone who doesn't exactly conform your ideology qualifies for the broad category of "brazen ignorance, hatred and bigotry" which "shocks and saddens" you. Of course, I'm surrounded by those words every day, so I've seen it all and I know what I'm talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifling

For all you who think homosexuality is a "choice," ask yourself this simple question:
Who would ever "choose" a lifestyle that leaves you vulnerable to this degree of hatred and bashing? Who would willingly, voluntarily raise their hand and exclaim: "Yes! I'd love to endure that for the rest of my life!"

This is a very good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sifling

This is my first and last post. Clearly, my type isn't welcome here.

Oh how noble of you to sulk and wallow in self-pity! You think you're so prejudiced that in a blaze of self-righteousness, you label the entire board as bigoted. How ironic.

TripleDipping · 02-15-2007, 04:48 PM

Somewhere in Miami, Tim Hardaway is sitting behind a computer, reading all this hoopla, and laughs and says:"Hahah, I'm relevant again!"

Rhylan · 02-15-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

he is done.

its only ok to hate on Conservative Christians and Mormons...

Sad, but quite true.

Doesn't take away from how idiotic Hardaway is, of course. He could've come out and said so many things about not agreeing with, or being uncomfortable with, gay men. If that's his opinion, fine. But, "I hate them?" Gimme a break.

jacktruth · 02-15-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Because men stand and women sit?

I lived with a gay guy for 3 years in college (and shared a bathroom with him - Oh, the horror of it all!). I never once got the feeling that he was attracted to me.

Even if a teammate was attracted to another player, as long as they both know that nothing will ever come of it, who cares? They're human beings, give them some credit for having a little bit of self-control.

Seriously? Do you think that is the only reason?

Here's some reality. Men think about sex all of the time. If men and women shared lockerooms and bathrooms, either men would be in there all of the time, or women would wear depends. Especially lockerrooms.

So, gay men want to say that they are just like other men. Are they or not? Do they think about the same amount as most men? If so, there should be a cover charge to get into the men's lockerroom. I know plenty of men that would pay plenty to undress and shower with the ladies.

It's not at all homophobic to think in those terms.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacktruth

Seriously? Do you think that is the only reason?

Here's some reality. Men think about sex all of the time. If men and women shared lockerooms and bathrooms, either men would be in there all of the time, or women would wear depends. Especially lockerrooms.

So, gay men want to say that they are just like other men. Are they or not? Do they think about the same amount as most men? If so, there should be a cover charge to get into the men's lockerroom. I know plenty of men that would pay plenty to undress and shower with the ladies.

It's not at all homophobic to think in those terms.

Many straight men could use a co-ed bathroom and control their urge to look over into the next stall. Gay men do the same thing in same-sex bathrooms every day.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

Many straight men could use a co-ed bathroom and control their urge to look over into the next stall. Gay men do the same thing in same-sex bathrooms every day.

these people are irrelevant. You can either take them at their word that they are not ogling or not, but that's all you have is their word. On the other hand, in this hypothetical, it is the women in the women's restroom/lockerroom and the straightmen in the men's whose trust issues are being forced. To say in this situation, "too bad, you have to trust the dude cause he says he's good" goes against every privacy principle we have.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

these people are irrelevant. You can either take them at their word that they are not ogling or not, but that's all you have is their word. On the other hand, in this hypothetical, it is the women in the women's restroom/lockerroom and the straightmen in the men's whose trust issues are being forced. To say in this situation, "too bad, you have to trust the dude cause he says he's good" goes against every privacy principle we have.

I'm sorry, I just don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you saying that the right to privacy demands that we set up seperate restrooms for homosexuals?

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

I'm sorry, I just don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you saying that the right to privacy demands that we set up seperate restrooms for homosexuals?

i think what he's saying is that guys that like girls routinely lie to girls.

...it ain't all that unreasonable to assume that guys that like guys would do the same thing, like....

"seriously dude, go ahead, shower...i may be a homosexual but that doesn't mean that i'm imagining you wearing a ball-gag and me acting out a scene from pulp fiction. yeah, lather up....nice and slow"

endtroducing MASKED · 02-15-2007, 05:50 PM

if, in 2007, someone is still feeling this way towards a gay person...just put a fucking bullet in them. humans are so disgusting.

bernardos70 · 02-15-2007, 05:51 PM

lol, I'm sorry PC, but that was funny.