I come in peace... - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

Barkley said it the best, rebounding is 95% desire and 5% ability! So yes I do know it's more than just size and athletic ability to rebound. AGAIN, that's my point!!!! Also I'm not saying Dampier is the WORST player in the NBA either, but there are four teams remaining in the playoffs so there are a limited amount of players to focus on. I'm saying if the Mavericks plan on moving on, they're relying on Dampier to do certain things and I just don't see it!!! I personally think the Mavs could or would be in the same place without Dampier. I may be wrong but I think they would and that's ashame they're paying someone that kind of money to be mediocre.

This has gotten too stupid to continue. You don't know anything about the mavs but you are going to quote barkley at me.

Knickfan · 05-25-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Yes dude, go look up their career stats. sheesh...You watch diop one series (worse yet, one overtime period) and you think you know what you are talking about here. You do not.

Dude don't talk to me about knowing the Mavericks because I'm a Knicks fan. What you don't know is I lived in Dallas the past four years and I share season tickets with a co-worker. So contrary to what you believe, I watch EVERY SINGLE MAVERICKS GAME!!!! So no I don't have to defer to ANYONE of you who talk with your heart and not with reality. I NEVER said Diop was great, he may not even be better than Dampier, what I said before is he could give the Mavs the SAME thing Damp gives them. If you listen to what I said, I said I don't think Damp gives them enough and CERTAINLEY what he's capable of considering the year he had in his contract year! You all keep trying to tell me I don't know the Mavs, I don't know Diop, I'm a basketball junky.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-25-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

One of the best in the league on his best day huh??? WOW!!! Nothing wrong with routing for you home team but that's incredible that you feel that way!!! Absolutely incredible. It wasn't me who called Eric Dampier Erica. It wasn't me who said Eric Dampier should be playing in the WNBA. That was someone who plays in the NBA, I think they would know better than you or I how well Dampier is.

Don't misquote me. I said "better" not "best."

And you're quoting Shaq to me? Give me a break. Shaq is an ego-maniac. The only reason he said anything about Dampier was because he was pissed off after a loss to the Mavs in which Dampier played stellar defense.

Quote:

Also you said AJ sat Diop most of the time to prevent him from fouling out right? Well if Dampier was SO important, don't you think he would have sacraficed Diop to save Dampier? I mean really, why did AJ do that? Why do you think the Spurs put Fin on Dirk? Not because Fin could guard him but because down the stretch they wanted Bowen to available to guard him. Well if Damp was so important, AJ would have made that adjustment but instead YOU'RE saying that AJ saved Diop, but you're telling me how DOMINANT Dampier is right!

First of all, I don't think AJ was planning on the game going into overtime. Probably why he had Dampier in during the final minutes of regulation, as well as to begin the overtime.

And I never EVER used the word "dominant", let alone with all caps, to describe Dampier.

Edit: that's fine and dandy U2, but please don't add any of that, ahem, poopy to my post. If you insist on subtracting, do so, but don't add that kind of... malarky.

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 06:01 PM

Dampiers reb/48 minutes was 15.8. Of players who both played more than 20 games and 20mpg was..

Jeff Foster - 17.4
Reggie Evans
Marcus Camby
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler - 16.1

Now just those stats give credence to his rebounding prowess, other than that you should respect and listen to your betters.

Desagan Diop at 11.8.

Knickfan · 05-25-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

This has gotten too stupid to continue. You don't know anything about the mavs but you are going to quote barkley at me

Again, I watch the Mavs EVERY GAME, speaking before you know what the hell you're talking about!

Secondly I quoted something Barkley said about playing the game of basketball he was so great at and that's why he's in the Hall of Fame. You don't have to like him either but the man knows something about rebounding far more than you or I!!!!! But I'm the stupid right!!!!

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

Dude don't talk to me about knowing the Mavericks because I'm a Knicks fan. What you don't know is I lived in Dallas the past four years and I share season tickets with a co-worker. So contrary to what you believe, I watch EVERY SINGLE MAVERICKS GAME!!!! So no I don't have to defer to ANYONE of you who talk with your heart and not with reality. I NEVER said Diop was great, he may not even be better than Dampier, what I said before is he could give the Mavs the SAME thing Damp gives them. If you listen to what I said, I said I don't think Damp gives them enough and CERTAINLEY what he's capable of considering the year he had in his contract year! You all keep trying to tell me I don't know the Mavs, I don't know Diop, I'm a basketball junky.

Maybe I'm mixing you up with someone. As I started my discussion diop brings more energy but he does NOT muscle up centers and get them out of the paint. Every postup guy who plays him toasts him.

If you actually DO watch every mavs game and don't see the difference then you and I have no way to reach a consensus. If you want to just bitch about damps contract, fine go ahead. But the memphis series and the memphis games gasol eats diop up alive. Every physical center we've played has eaten him up.

dirno2000 · 05-25-2006, 06:06 PM

Knickfan do you realize that Damp was 2nd in the league in rebounding rate this past season? The only player who grabbed more available rebounds when he was in the game was Dwight Howard.

I can understand how someone who doesn't follow the Mavs regularly could underestimate his value, especially in light of his contract, but I assure you the Mavericks wouldn't be the team they are without him. Somebody must take out the garbage and Damp and Diop (along with Griff) fill that role for us. Yea, Diop is great and all but halfway through the season he was leading the leage in fouls per minute.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-25-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

If you listen to what I said, I said I don't think Damp gives them enough and CERTAINLEY what he's capable of considering the year he had in his contract year! You all keep trying to tell me I don't know the Mavs, I don't know Diop, I'm a basketball junky.

The fact of the matter is, Dampier is NOT capable of putting up the numbers he put up in his contract year in his current situation.

His numbers that year were inflated because Golden State had gotten rid of the only other rebounder on that team (Jamison) as well as the fact that they had lost their two best scorers in Jamison and Arenas. Damp's minutes as well as his touches were much higher than at any other point in his career.

Damp's numbers in Dallas are better than his career numbers. That's all you should need to know to see that Dampier is giving us his all.

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Damp's numbers in Dallas are better than his career numbers. That's all you should need to know to see that Dampier is giving us his all.

That's a hell of an observation spiral, kudos. I didn't realize that.

chumdawg · 05-25-2006, 06:27 PM

What numbers are you looking at, Spiral? This year was his second-worst in his career in scoring.

Knickfan · 05-25-2006, 06:29 PM

Look, you all can talk about Dampier averaging 15.2 rebounds per 48 minutes all you want. The reality is he only averages 23.7 minutes a game and that breaks down to 7.8 rebounds a game. Now that 15.2 rebounds per game does tell me when he's playing he's rebounding which says he's doing what they asked him to do but when you bring someone to Dallas and you can only get him 23 minutes a game, there's a reason. For instance I KNOW there's a reason Diop is playing behind Damp, and I've NEVER said he's better than Damp, he did a better job down the stretch than Damp but overall he's NOT better than him.

My whole point in this, there is NO inside presence for Phoenix that should cause Damp any problems, so if he can't improve on 7.8 rebounds a game against Phoenix, the Mavs are in trouble!!!! I know it's more to the game than rebounds and numbers. He has to alter shots and basically be in there and five rebounds or something like that in the first game, I'm sorry that's NOTHING and he has to do a better job. Now maybe that may be somewhat unfair because he may not get a ton of minutes because of the style this series is going to be but when he's in, he needs to be a difference maker and I didn't see that AT ALL in game 1.

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Wait, are you telling me Diop was better than Damp even before this year?

If that's the case, than you are either confusing him with someone else, or more likely, you're just that stupid.

NO, IM SAYING IN MY OPINION (AND ONLY MY OPINION, THATS WHAT FORUMS ARE FOR , RIGHT, NOT GRADING PPL, OR AM I STUPID THERE TOO?) DIOP IS BETTER THAN DAMP, RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

AND TO CALL SOMEONE STUPID ON A FORUM, IS AT BEST, MORE SUGGESTIVE OF YOUR SELF ASSUMED STATUS HERE THAN MY INTELLIGENCE, SO IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PICK ON ME, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND VAST KNOWLEDGE, LOL, IF NOT, AND IT WAS JUST A FIGURE OF SPEECH (A STRANGE ONE AT THAT) THEN NICE TO MEET YOU SPIRAL.

mattyd · 05-25-2006, 07:00 PM

If Damp wasn't paid superstar money no one would give a shit about his performance. But he had a great free agent year - not uncommon for guys in the league to ramp it up to get a big contract - and he probably would have picked up similar money elsewhere. In fact, weren't the Knicks about to give him some deal even more ridiculous than the one Cuban gave?

orangedays · 05-25-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

My whole point in this, there is NO inside presence for Phoenix that should cause Damp any problems, so if he can't improve on 7.8 rebounds a game against Phoenix, the Mavs are in trouble!!!! I know it's more to the game than rebounds and numbers. He has to alter shots and basically be in there and five rebounds or something like that in the first game, I'm sorry that's NOTHING and he has to do a better job. Now maybe that may be somewhat unfair because he may not get a ton of minutes because of the style this series is going to be but when he's in, he needs to be a difference maker and I didn't see that AT ALL in game 1.

Players like Dampier, Diop et al. have a hard time staying on the floor against teams like Phoenix. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are a weak rebounding team - the Mavs will still out-rebound them even with a small line-up on the floor.

And you must be in denial or just plain dumb if you didn't see a difference in the game when Damp was on the floor. (According to Usually Lurkin), Damp was +14 for the game and the Mavs outscored the Suns everytime Damp was on the court (outside of his first stint).

He was a difference maker - it's a shame he only played 16 minutes.

orangedays · 05-25-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

NO, IM SAYING IN MY OPINION (AND ONLY MY OPINION, THATS WHAT FORUMS ARE FOR , RIGHT, NOT GRADING PPL, OR AM I STUPID THERE TOO?) DIOP IS BETTER THAN DAMP, RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

AND TO CALL SOMEONE STUPID ON A FORUM, IS AT BEST, MORE SUGGESTIVE OF YOUR SELF ASSUMED STATUS HERE THAN MY INTELLIGENCE, SO IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PICK ON ME, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND VAST KNOWLEDGE, LOL, IF NOT, AND IT WAS JUST A FIGURE OF SPEECH (A STRANGE ONE AT THAT) THEN NICE TO MEET YOU SPIRAL.

If you're going to come out with an opinion like that, it would be a very good idea to have some sort of rationale to back it up.

So please, Mr. mav4ever, why do YOU think Diop > Dampier?

Thespiralgoeson · 05-25-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What numbers are you looking at, Spiral? This year was his second-worst in his career in scoring.

I'm talking about both seasons here in Dallas, chum, not just this one.

Damp's career numbers before last year:

8.6 ppg
7.0 rpg

Damp's overall career numbers:

8.5 ppg
7.4 rpg

Damp's two seasons in Dallas:

7.4 ppg
8.15 rpg

Scoring's gone down a bit, but look at his career numbers http://www.nba.com/playerfile/erick_dampier/index.html

His numbers in Dallas are comperable, if not better than the rest of his career, the lone exception being his contract year in which his stats were greatly inflated due to Golden State having a depleted roster.

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

If you're going to come out with an opinion like that, it would be a very good idea to have some sort of rationale to back it up.

So please, Mr. mav4ever, why do YOU think Diop > Dampier?

ok, with all your infinite wisdom, whats it come down to in rebounds per dollar?,,,,lol

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 10:11 PM

would you consider that rational?

(ouch)

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 10:11 PM

nevermind. funny ppl, lol.

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 10:23 PM

Except for Phoenix which is an abberration of a team. Damp/Diop are just fine and to gripe about them when they just stood in there and took it all series long against the sp*rs is bogus. If we didn't have both of those guys, duncan chews us up, just chews us up. As it was he was unbelievable.

The grizzlies -- chewed 'em up, sp*rs beat 'em, ready for detroit or miami.

Phoenix is an obvious matchup problem for a lot of folks, especially centers. Dampier got 5 rebounds last night in 16minutes. 3 offensive. I'd like to see him get a tad more time than that if possible. He's not going to get much more I fear however, I'm not sure any center would.

Damn...looking at the box dirk got 8 orebs? Is that a career high?

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

NO, IM SAYING IN MY OPINION (AND ONLY MY OPINION, THATS WHAT FORUMS ARE FOR , RIGHT, NOT GRADING PPL, OR AM I STUPID THERE TOO?) DIOP IS BETTER THAN DAMP, RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

AND TO CALL SOMEONE STUPID ON A FORUM, IS AT BEST, MORE SUGGESTIVE OF YOUR SELF ASSUMED STATUS HERE THAN MY INTELLIGENCE, SO IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PICK ON ME, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME AND VAST KNOWLEDGE, LOL, IF NOT, AND IT WAS JUST A FIGURE OF SPEECH (A STRANGE ONE AT THAT) THEN NICE TO MEET YOU SPIRAL.

AND TO SCREAM LIKE STEPEHN BLANK SMITH IS RIDICULOUS...EITHER STOP THE CAPS OR RETIRE.

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

nevermind. funny ppl, lol.

masterful retort

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 10:34 PM

WHEN CALLED STUPID, ONE CAN USE THE FONT ONE CHOOSES, AND DID YOU MEAN STEPHEN??

oh, and if no one gets the rebounds per dollar issue, im pretty sure the problem here is terminal, sad but true.,,,,,,,,,(lower case, hope thats less abrasive to the sensitive types round these parts)

ka-ching,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the mav4ever money ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dude1394 · 05-25-2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

WHEN CALLED STUPID, ONE CAN USE THE FONT ONE CHOOSES, AND DID YOU MEAN STEPHEN??

oh, and if no one gets the rebounds per dollar issue, im pretty sure the problem here is terminal, sad but true.,,,,,,,,,(lower case, hope thats less abrasive to the sensitive types round these parts)

ka-ching,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the mav4ever money ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

okay I'll put it back. pre-teenager.

mav4ever · 05-25-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

okay I'll put it back. pre-teenager.

props on your retort to dude, i been had.

knash999 · 05-26-2006, 02:17 AM

Damp overpaid? maybe.
Diop and Dampiers combined stats:

MPG 42.2
PPG 8.0
RPG 12.4
EFF 18.92
FG% .494
BPG 3.09
FPG 5.3

argueably the best defensive center production in the league. their only combined problem is foul trouble (well and FT shooting). end of discussion.

orangedays · 05-26-2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

ok, with all your infinite wisdom, whats it come down to in rebounds per dollar?,,,,lol

Do you seriously believe that Damp's contribution is measured only in rebounds?

Ignoring that, you still haven't answered my question...

Why do YOU think Diop > Dampier?

AxdemxO · 05-26-2006, 03:13 AM

People need to get off Damp and Diop ...becasue the plan was to bother Duncan but let him get his not to stop him. So let Duncan get his and stop every1 else and it worked cuz we won...sooo hopp off.

aexchange · 05-26-2006, 07:24 AM

rest assured knicksfan, even if dampier has the worst contract in the nba, we can always trade him to the knicks.

mav4ever · 05-26-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

Do you seriously believe that Damp's contribution is measured only in rebounds?

Ignoring that, you still haven't answered my question...

Why do YOU think Diop > Dampier?

read post 15

knash999 · 05-26-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggbeater

I come in peace...

(in best Dolph Lundgren voice)
"And you go in pieces..."

sorry for that, I just couldn't resist.

madape · 05-26-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I was waiting for Spiral to show up and inject some sense into this thread

yeah, me too. and I'm still waiting. Seriously, Dampier is a national joke. The only place where he gets ANY respect is amongst Dallas fans.

I mean the guy's thrown up some of the biggest duds of his career in the playoffs. I mean SHIT... take the game that Spiral thinks Dampier did so well in; game 7 of the Spurs series.

26 minutes, 6 points, 3 rebounds
And Duncan threw down 41 points and 15 rebounds on his head!!!!

It takes a blind fool to ignore 24 minutes of humiliating ineptitude and praise the bum for one or two defensive stops. Pop recognized Dampier was incapable of guarding Duncan and pounded inside to him OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Out of the 30 or so plays Duncan ran a night against Dampier, he embarassed Dampier 90% of the time. Are you telling me the 10% of the time he actually did something worth a crap proves he's a good player? He was DOMINATED by Duncan in that series. Absolutly OWNED.

Dampier is a disgrace!

dirno2000 · 05-26-2006, 11:42 AM

I'm never understood how the biggest Shawn Bradley fan in Dallas can hold being a national joke against a guy.

Over the past two decades of NBA basketball you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger national joke than the Mantis. Does that mean he didn't bring anything to the table?

madape · 05-26-2006, 01:15 PM

I thought we were talking about Dampier? Nothing to say in response? figures

orangedays · 05-26-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav4ever

read post 15

Heh.

Quote:

to me, damp is inconsistent at best, he has his moments that are good, i dont think his effort is all that bad, but he seems to have slow reaction times as far as getting his hands up.

Opinion, do you have anything to back this up?

Quote:

i think he knows it and it is very frustrating to him

Opinion.

Quote:

he is also a gamble on offense, as far as handling fast feeds under the hoop, it seems like 2 outa three get by him and out of bounds, and when he does catch it he seems to want to bounce it once b4 going up, which is fundamentally incorrect under the rim for a center.

1) Wrong. 2) Fundamentally incorrect? It all depends on where he is positioned in the paint. If he is 6-7 feet out do you expect him to take one step and dunk it? No. He does not let 66.6% of his passes get by him. You clearly have no understanding of what it means to be a center.

Quote:

if you note these tendencies, and watch the difference between diop and damp, you will see what i mean as far as offense goes. diop handles hot feeds much better, and has better hand speed which is critical for a center.

So Diop handles fast passes better, gotcha. This is the first thing I may give you.

Quote:

both get in foul trouble if they even look at a post up move, i think damp getsum sitting on the bench if the other team drives the lane, dont know why, but they get harsh treatment from the whistles.

Ok...so both get in foul trouble easily. I'm glad to see that you've been watching a single series. Foul trouble has not been a major issue ever since the Mavs went to Diop in the starting line-up, outside of the Spurs series.

I read your post. It provides no evidence, merely poorly thought-out conjecture.

Try again?

Knickfan · 05-26-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

And you must be in denial or just plain dumb if you didn't see a difference in the game when Damp was on the floor. (According to Usually Lurkin), Damp was +14 for the game and the Mavs outscored the Suns everytime Damp was on the court (outside of his first stint).

It's funny how EVERYONE here is SO much smarter than the actual coach. I'm dumb right, well if it's THAT big of a difference with him in the game, don't you think Avery would say, "I know this game doesn't suit Damp's style but I should get him more minutes because we're just BETTER with him on the floor?" Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure AJ or any coach for that matter would just try to give him more minutes... But no, AJ thought it was necessary to keep him on the bench and keep him well and rested even though he was making THAT much of a difference!!!! I mean he wasn't in foul trouble AT ALL but all he did was get 16 minutes???!!!! But you're telling me I'm DUMB???!!!

I see it, everyone here is SO MUCH SMARTER than Avery Johnson, I get it.

mav4ever · 05-26-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

yeah, me too. and I'm still waiting. Seriously, Dampier is a national joke. The only place where he gets ANY respect is amongst Dallas fans.

I mean the guy's thrown up some of the biggest duds of his career in the playoffs. I mean SHIT... take the game that Spiral thinks Dampier did so well in; game 7 of the Spurs series.

26 minutes, 6 points, 3 rebounds
And Duncan threw down 41 points and 15 rebounds on his head!!!!

It takes a blind fool to ignore 24 minutes of humiliating ineptitude and praise the bum for one or two defensive stops. Pop recognized Dampier was incapable of guarding Duncan and pounded inside to him OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Out of the 30 or so plays Duncan ran a night against Dampier, he embarassed Dampier 90% of the time. Are you telling me the 10% of the time he actually did something worth a crap proves he's a good player? He was DOMINATED by Duncan in that series. Absolutly OWNED.

Dampier is a disgrace!

madape, there is no way i could agree more , but for some reason, its not the opinion of many on this board. they think that he did a good job against duncan by allowing 35-40 points per game, i know duncan is good in the post, but hes not 40pts a game good, unless hes gaurded by damp. by the way, what did duncan average vs sac in the 1st round? must have been 50, and if thats the case, then yay damp!!!

orangedays · 05-26-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knickfan

It's funny how EVERYONE here is SO much smarter than the actual coach. I'm dumb right, well if it's THAT big of a difference with him in the game, don't you think Avery would say, "I know this game doesn't suit Damp's style but I should get him more minutes because we're just BETTER with him on the floor?" Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure AJ or any coach for that matter would just try to give him more minutes... But no, AJ thought it was necessary to keep him on the bench and keep him well and rested even though he was making THAT much of a difference!!!! I mean he wasn't in foul trouble AT ALL but all he did was get 16 minutes???!!!! But you're telling me I'm DUMB???!!!

I see it, everyone here is SO MUCH SMARTER than Avery Johnson, I get it.

So you're saying that the +14 was what, a statistical error? What do you think that was? What do you think AJ's rationale was for keeping a player on the bench when his mere presence on the floor was enough to give the Mavs an edge?

Mental mistake? Perhaps.

And no, I'm not calling you dumb. I'm saying you're either in denial...Or dumb.

You can pick.

Knickfan · 05-26-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

rest assured knicksfan, even if dampier has the worst contract in the nba, we can always trade him to the knicks

Actually the Knicks would trade for him but they would think he should be paid more money!!!!!!

mav4ever · 05-26-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

Heh.

Opinion, do you have anything to back this up?

Opinion.

1) Wrong. 2) Fundamentally incorrect? It all depends on where he is positioned in the paint. If he is 6-7 feet out do you expect him to take one step and dunk it? No. He does not let 66.6% of his passes get by him. You clearly have no understanding of what it means to be a center.

So Diop handles fast passes better, gotcha. This is the first thing I may give you.

Ok...so both get in foul trouble easily. I'm glad to see that you've been watching a single series. Foul trouble has not been a major issue ever since the Mavs went to Diop in the starting line-up, outside of the Spurs series.

I read your post. It provides no evidence, merely poorly thought-out conjecture.

Try again?

orange, let me try some of your debate strategy.

your an idiot