Israel in Lebanon again--- uh oh.

[Drbio]

John Kerry loves to look backwards and then change his stance to make himself look good in the eyes of the sheep. Of course, the rest of the world sees him as the fool he is.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Oh please, seriously just stfu with your ignorant responses. They're quite annoying.

Never satisfied? Bush hasn't done anything that the muslim countries have liked. They've asked him to leave iraq multiple times yet we're still there. So where's this satisfaction coming from? You're ignorance?

It's funny how Israel is allowed to kill thousands of Palestine CIVILIANS and everyone ignores it but as soon as they make a move it's marked as terrorism. Taking 2 soldiers in a time like this in the middle east isn't terrorism when your own innocent civilians are dying by the thousands.

And this whole thing won't be settled until Palestine is reawarded all the land it lost. Clinton tried to settle this by giving them back 90% of their land but they want it all back. And you know what? They have a right to that.

Imagine if some country decided to give land that belonged to the U.S. to Mexico since it felt sorry for them? Do you really think we would be happy with that? If our land was stripped from us, I'm pretty damn sure we would go to extremes (aka war) to get it back. Thats the Israel/Palestine situation in a nutshell.

excuse me, but just what "innocent civilans are dying by the thousands" in lebanon before hezbollah went into israeli territory and abducted the israeli servicemen? do you not believe that the actions by hezbollah was a direct provocation, amounting to an act of war?

the israelis do not occupy any lebanese land. the actions of hezbollah cannot be justified.

as for the palestinians, your view is historically inaccurate. first, NOONE "decided to give land" to ANYBODY. the land that encompasses israel was governed under a british mandate, and britain wisely decided to allow for self rule. this did not allow for anybody's land to be confiscated or for anyone to leave their land. there are many arab israelis who own their land. there are arab israeli legislators in the knesset.

the united nations decided to endorse the british leaving, and endorsed the establishment of the state of israel to replace their colonial rule. this was also done to establish the government of jordan as well as iraq. are those countries also guilty of "stripping land" from their inhabitants?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

If John Kerry were president, none of this would have happened, according to John Kerry.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...DATE/607230360

let's see what kerry said:
"The president has been so absent on diplomacy when it comes to issues affecting the Middle East," Kerry said. "We're going to have a lot of ground to make up (in 2008) because of it."

fact: the us had removed its ambassador to syria in mid 2005 and has not sent him back to his post. absent is accurate.
fact: the us has not had any diplomat active in the area from the beginning of the lebanese violence until rice went this past weekend. absent is accurate.

kerry continued: "This is about American security and Bush has failed. He has made it so much worse because of his lack of reality in going into Iraq.…We have to destroy Hezbollah," he said.

fact: the war in iraq has strengthened the ability of iran to influence the region, has diminished america's standing among the arabs in the region, and has also pushed syria further into the arms of iran.
fact: kerry voices a strong view on eliminating hezbollah. do you disagree?

[Usually Lurkin]

"If I was president, this wouldn't have happened," said Kerry during a noon stop at Honest John's bar and grill in Detroit's Cass Corridor.

fact: Kerry will say anything.

fact: kerry voices a strong view on eliminating hezbollah. do you disagree?

I think Kerry will say we should eliminate hezbollah before he says we shouldn't eliminate hezbollah.
I also think that when it comes down to it, the party of George Bush will do more than just say, "we should eliminate so and so."

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

"If I was president, this wouldn't have happened," said Kerry during a noon stop at Honest John's bar and grill in Detroit's Cass Corridor.

fact: Kerry will say anything.

I think Kerry will say we should eliminate hezbollah before he says we shouldn't eliminate hezbollah.

gee, the "I voted for ___ before I voted against it" has sure given his opponents a good line to use for a couple of years now.

I also think that when it comes down to it, the party of George Bush will do more than just say, "we should eliminate so and so."

yes, you are right. george bush will do more than simply make a speech to the effect, he'll unfurl a banner that says "mission accomplished" as if that makes it so....unfortunately, as we've come to see in the war in iraq just making the assertion doesn't make it real nor accurate.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

gee, the "I voted for ___ before I voted against it" has sure given his opponents a good line to use for a couple of years now.

it's so funny because it's so true.

[mcsluggo]

You are right, it IS funny because it is so true.

John Kerry commits the abhorant sin of actually updating his postion on events based on facts as they occur. The horror.

Frankly, the ABSOLUTE inability of this administration to do likewise will be one of the most prevalent features of all the postmortem analyses ripping apart the Bush presidency from 2008 and beyond. It boggles my mind that perhaps Bush's (administration's) single biggest weakness <the inability to adapt to wrinkles in the road, once an objective has been declared> is the feature that his supporters adore him for the most. In the end, his "steadfastness" looks alot like pig-headedness, or having his head in the sand.

[Drbio]

Trying to spin "no-spine-waffling" as "updating his position" is hilarious. I laughed so hard my secretary asked me if I was ok. Good one.

[capitalcity]

Lemme know when islamofacists update their position on the destruction of the civilized world. Until then, I'll take heads in the sand and boots on the ground.

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Who has asked him to leave? Zarqawi, Al Queda? Who...Not the elected governement of Iraq. Speak of ignorant. Who are these mythical muslims you speak of? Palestinians?

What's most funny is that you can equate blowing up a pizza parlor with israel defending themself against terrorist nutbags who make their headquarters in civilian populations. Just so that when they are attacked they can call up CNN and show how horrible the israelis are.

Those damn jews, shouldn't they just take a few suicide bombs without doing something about it.

It looks like you were the one that was ignorant on this matter:


raq parliament speaker calls for US withdrawal

Iraq's parliament speaker Mahmud Mashhadani,
pictured, bitterly criticized US forces in Iraq,
accusing them of "butchery" and demanded that
they pull out of the country.(AFP/File/Hassan Ammar)

BAGHDAD - Iraq's parliament speaker Mahmud Mashhadani bitterly criticized US forces in Iraq, accusing them of "butchery" and demanded that they pull out of the country.

Mashhadani was speaking at a UN-sponsored conference on transitional justice and reconciliation in Baghdad, and his strongly worded attack appeared to embarrass his international hosts, who grimaced on the podium.

"Just get your hands off Iraq and the Iraqi people and Muslim countries, and everything will be all right," the conservative Sunni Islamist said, in a speech opening the conference.

"What has been done in Iraq is a kind of butchery of the Iraqi people," he said in a long winded speech that criticized the tactics of the coalition forces as well as US support for Israeli strikes against Lebanon.

The two day conference, which was originally supposed to be opened by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, will address the issue of dealing with the crimes of previous Iraqi regimes and a plan to reconcile the country's warring factions.

The prime minister is expected to name a reconciliation committee Saturday.

Mashhadani bluntly told the audience of UN officials, foreign experts, Iraqi politicians and civil society representatives that the Iraqi people had little use for foreign advice on running the country or foreign-sponsored conferences.

"If a reconciliation project is going to work it has to talk to all the people," he said. "It must go through our Iraqi beliefs and perceptions. What we need is reconciliation between Iraqis only, there can be no third party."

To underscore his distaste for US forces in Iraq, he related an anecdote about how US soldiers keep people waiting in lines at checkpoints for hours because they insist on resting their bomb-sniffing dogs.

"The sleep of American dogs is more important than people being stopped in the street for hours," he said, evoking chuckles among Iraqi delegates.

The UN representative who then opened the conference subsequently referred to Mashhadani's speech as "spirited".

Mashhadani is a member of the main Sunni Arab parliamentary bloc, the National Concord Front, which is a member of Maliki's national unity government.

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Some of the more knowledgable might correct me, but I thought there never has been a real state of Palestine, it's just the name of a region. The modern Isreal and Palestine states were to be created at the same time (1948), but the Arab states immediately attacked Isreal. The outcome of that war was that the area that was to be the Palestinian state was divided up between Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. So that would be like someone giving part of the US to Mexico, and the US sending terrorists and suicide bombers into Canada to try to completely wipe our northern neighbors from the map, with the help of Mexico.
edit: after rereading, I think it would be more like the UN creating Canada and the US, then Mexico taking over the US, then Mexico using the absence of a United States, and the need for the United States as an excuse to try to destroy Canada.

There was never a "real state" since some areas of the world hadn't seen them as one just yet but the Arab countries sure did see it. And even if some countries didn't see it as a "real state" who says that someone can interfere with their daily lives and take over their land? That is still wrong by all means. Think about it.

[Usually Lurkin]

raq parliament speaker calls for US withdrawal

Iraq's parliament speaker Mahmud Mashhadani,

what??!! Iraq has an elected prime minister and a speaker of the parliament???? And one doesn't gun the other down for saying inflamatory things?
How the heck did that happen? We should have retreated from there long before such a thing could've taken place.

What's next, female legislators?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

There was never a "real state" since some areas of the world hadn't seen them as one just yet but the Arab countries sure did see it. And even if some countries didn't see it as a "real state" who says that someone can interfere with their daily lives and take over their land? That is still wrong by all means. Think about it.

well, then why don't syria, jordan, and egypt give the land back? Why don't the hezbollah terrorists send their bombs into those countries?
Are you not concerned that land that was taken from the jews?

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

excuse me, but just what "innocent civilans are dying by the thousands" in lebanon before hezbollah went into israeli territory and abducted the israeli servicemen? do you not believe that the actions by hezbollah was a direct provocation, amounting to an act of war?

the israelis do not occupy any lebanese land. the actions of hezbollah cannot be justified.

as for the palestinians, your view is historically inaccurate. first, NOONE "decided to give land" to ANYBODY. the land that encompasses israel was governed under a british mandate, and britain wisely decided to allow for self rule. this did not allow for anybody's land to be confiscated or for anyone to leave their land. there are many arab israelis who own their land. there are arab israeli legislators in the knesset.

the united nations decided to endorse the british leaving, and endorsed the establishment of the state of israel to replace their colonial rule. this was also done to establish the government of jordan as well as iraq. are those countries also guilty of "stripping land" from their inhabitants?

If you were to watch the news (san fox news) you would notice how often Israel is missing their targets and ending up killing thousands of civilians and destroying their towns. How humane is that? Read this:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...d/15106572.htm

it will give you some what of an insight as to the lack of respect israel has for everyday civilians by bombing right over them.

The US's justification that "Israel has the right to defend herself" is not once extended to the oppressed Palestinian people, who have been enduring the most horrific series of air and ground assaults. According to the Palestinian envoy to the UN, who reported to the Security Council on Friday, Israel has conducted over 100 air strikes and shelled Gaza more than 1,100 times.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG25Ak02.html

Want to take back you original statement?

Here's a nice little summary I found:

- Iran doesn't have nukes, Israel does.

- Iran has signed and complies with the terms of the NPT, Israel doesn't.

- Iran doesn't take in billions of US foreign aid dollars per year creating massive enmity towards the US among the world, Israel does.

- Israel has attacked the US military before, Iran hasn't. (USS Liberty)

- Israel has performed acts of terrorism against US citizens before. Lavon Affair, among many other acts of terrorism.

- Israel has been caught selling US military secrets to the Chinese.

- In their most recent military actions, Israel has shown a willingness to destroy innocents and civilian infrastructure.

as for the palestinians, your view is historically inaccurate. first, NOONE "decided to give land" to ANYBODY. the land that encompasses israel was governed under a british mandate, and britain wisely decided to allow for self rule. this did not allow for anybody's land to be confiscated or for anyone to leave their land. there are many arab israelis who own their land. there are arab israeli legislators in the knesset.

the united nations decided to endorse the british leaving, and endorsed the establishment of the state of israel to replace their colonial rule. this was also done to establish the government of jordan as well as iraq. are those countries also guilty of "stripping land" from their inhabitants?

Oh please, you just backed up my argument. You just basically said the Palestinians were kicked out so a state of israel could be made.

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

well, then why don't syria, jordan, and egypt give the land back? Why don't the hezbollah terrorists send their bombs into those countries?
Are you not concerned that land that was taken from the jews?

What land was taken from them? They were given the land Palestine used to reside on. Most of the land was given to Israel, not jordan, syria, or egypt. And the "hezbollah terrorists" as you like to put it don't send bombs into those countries since those countries aren't killing thousands of their civilians with air strikes, and shelling their area.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

What land was taken from them?

I believe the word "Pallestine" comes from the jewish word for "invader." Different group of people, but the point is the same. You can't really answer this situation with a "who's land was it first?" argument.

And the "hezbollah terrorists" as you like to put it don't send bombs into those countries since those countries aren't killing thousands of their civilians with air strikes, and shelling their area.

they would send those air strikes if they wanted to stop the source of terrorist activities.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

If you were to watch the news (san fox news) you would notice how often Israel is missing their targets and ending up killing thousands of civilians and destroying their towns. How humane is that? Read this:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...d/15106572.htm

it will give you some what of an insight as to the lack of respect israel has for everyday civilians by bombing right over them.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG25Ak02.html

Want to take back you original statement?

no, how about you?

the article you posted is about the casualties of the RESPONSE by israel to the hezbollah provocation.

you said that abducting 2 soldiers is justified when their people are dying by the "thousands".

the lebanese were not (nor are they today) dying by the thousands.

the cause of the crisis is hezbollah and their provocations.

there would not be any bombs dropping in lebanon if hezbollah had not acted. israel would not be in lebanon if hezbollah had not acted.

Oh please, you just backed up my argument. You just basically said the Palestinians were kicked out so a state of israel could be made.

no. do you have a comphrehension issue?

there was no nation in palestine. it was a british protectorate. they threw up their hands and said, "self determination". so they formed governments and voila! the british are gone.

nobody had to leave any of the formed states. the state of israel did not exclude the arabs. there was no restriction on the muslims being muslims. nobody was "kicked out".

except of course the jews who were forced to leave the muslim countries...

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I believe the word "Pallestine" comes from the jewish word for "invader." Different group of people, but the point is the same. You can't really answer this situation with a "who's land was it first?" argument.


they would send those air strikes if they wanted to stop the source of terrorist activities.

Yeah but too bad they aren't hitting their targets and are ending up killing thousands of civillians. How do you justify the killing of thousands of innocent civillians? Please tell me, I would love to know.

You can't really answer this situation with a "who's land was it first?" argument.

Palestine was their and everything was fine and dandy until the Palestinians were kicked out and a state of Israel was made. And you expect them to not want to fight back?

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, how about you?

the article you posted is about the casualties of the RESPONSE by israel to the hezbollah provocation.

you said that abducting 2 soldiers is justified when their people are dying by the "thousands".

the lebanese were not (nor are they today) dying by the thousands.

the cause of the crisis is hezbollah and their provocations.

there would not be any bombs dropping in lebanon if hezbollah had not acted. israel would not be in lebanon if hezbollah had not acted.

Israel had been killing innocent Palestinians long before this. Abducting 2 soldiers in a time of war isn't really anything new. Especially when you consider Israel has taken a lot more soldiers from the various armies around there. And just fyi a lot of those soldiers/people taken in have been convicted of nothing. Why can't Israel exchange soldiers instead of killing innocent civilians over this?

no. do you have a comphrehension issue?

there was no nation in palestine. it was a british protectorate. they threw up their hands and said, "self determination". so they formed governments and voila! the british are gone.

nobody had to leave any of the formed states. the state of israel did not exclude the arabs. there was no restriction on the muslims being muslims. nobody was "kicked out".

except of course the jews who were forced to leave the muslim countries...

Once again you fail to understand that Palestinians were there but were removed to make a state of Isreael. Are you denying that? Nobody had the right to take away their land since some superpower wasn't looking after them anymore.

[Drbio]

Sounds like a little anti-semitism going on in here. What a shame.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Nobody had the right to take away their land since some superpower wasn't looking after them anymore.

We should give the land back to the Ottoman Empire?

[#1MavsFan]

Israel steps up assault on Beirut suburbs

_Fleeing refugees, including women and children, were cut down on a road adjacent to the Lebanese-Israeli border in an airstrike as they left the village of Marwaheen. The bodies of several children, one headless, were sprawled on the ground. Police said 15 were killed in the afternoon attack and an Associated Press photographer counted 12 bodies in the two cars.

_At least three civilians were killed when another Israeli airstrike hit a bridge near the Syrian border, cutting the last land link on the main road to Syria and its capital, Damascus.

_In the afternoon, Israeli forces hit central Beirut, striking the port and a lighthouse on a posh seafront boulevard, a few hundred yards from the campus of the American University of Beirut. The seaport is adjacent to downtown Beirut, a district rebuilt at a cost of billions of dollars after the 1975-1990 civil war.

_The brunt of the onslaught focused more and more on Hezbollah's top leadership in south Beirut and the eastern city of Baalbek. Ambulances raced to a Baalbek residential neighborhood where black smoke rose from airstrikes. Israel also targeted the headquarters compound of Hezbollah's leadership in a crowded Shiite neighborhood of south Beirut for the second straight day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/...lebanon_israel
hmm.

And I'd like to point out that I'm NOT saying that Hezbollah is right, but Israel sure isn't right in killing innocent civilians either.

Just look at what Isreael has done:



There's hundreds more of these at:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/080601mideast
Just flip threw them.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Israel had been killing innocent Palestinians long before this.

innocent people have died on both sides of the conflict.

Abducting 2 soldiers in a time of war isn't really anything new. Especially when you consider Israel has taken a lot more soldiers from the various armies around there. And just fyi a lot of those soldiers/people taken in have been convicted of nothing. Why can't Israel exchange soldiers instead of killing innocent civilians over this?

do you know something that we do not? do you know that israel was "at war" with lebanon?

of course, when someone is "at war" there are innocents who die. that is why the blame for the deaths falls on those who acted and caused the war...in this case it is hezbollah

Once again you fail to understand that Palestinians were there but were removed to make a state of Isreael. Are you denying that? Nobody had the right to take away their land since some superpower wasn't looking after them anymore.

yes, I am "denying" that all of the arabs were "removed to make a state of israel". many arabs remained in israel, are today israeli citizens, own land, have families and are engaged in a civil society witout being discriminated against.

and also without violently attacking innocent israelis or palestinians.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

We should give the land back to the Ottoman Empire?

maybe he is referring to the babylonians...after all, they were probably the first "superpower" there.

[#1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

innocent people have died on both sides of the conflict.



do you know something that we do not? do you know that israel was "at war" with lebanon?

of course, when someone is "at war" there are innocents who die. that is why the blame for the deaths falls on those who acted and caused the war...in this case it is hezbollah



yes, I am "denying" that all of the arabs were "removed to make a state of israel". many arabs remained in israel, are today israeli citizens, own land, have families and are engaged in a civil society witout being discriminated against.

and also without violently attacking innocent israelis or palestinians.

Of course some remained but they aren't in command like they used to be. It's not a islamic area anymore like it used to be. Also more innocent people have died on the side of the Palestinians, much more. And I was saying the area had been under a feeling like the time of war so why is that so suprising when so many people are dying daily?

Look at my post above yours and flip threw some of the pictures. Than tell me Israel is not doing anything wrong by killing innocent civilians.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

Lemme know when islamofacists update their position on the destruction of the civilized world. Until then, I'll take heads in the sand and boots on the ground.

Nice. Because Bush is preferable to terrorist bombers .... We'll TAKE him!

way to set the bar high.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Drbio

Trying to spin "no-spine-waffling" as "updating his position" is hilarious. I laughed so hard my secretary asked me if I was ok. Good one.

you and the other dittos can parrot the same tred no-spine-waffling crap over-and-over-and-over enough times until you've heard it enough times that you actually believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

It is a perfectly natural, and yes THINKING response to pull back support for the administration's extra-curricular activies-- as the administration further and further proves itself dishonest, morally vacant and incompetent.


Ah thinking. wouldn't that've been a radical change in 2004. I can can see why the parrots were squawking so loudly.

[Drbio]

Of course it is true. It is a fact that John Kerry flip flops all over the place. There is a huge difference between changing ones mind and changing ones opinion at every political feedback. Sorry if you are too blinded by liberalism to understand that easy little gem.

[mcsluggo]

Back to Israel....

I can't believe how dogmatic people get, trying to defend one sides reaction or the others. If you listended to the arguments EVERYONE is just responding to the horrors perpetrated on them by the "really bad guys... the other guys".

And their-in lies the problem. Israel WAS "justified" in reacting with force when their border was breached, and their people targeted with missiles and kidnapping. OF COURSE that is unacceptable.

However, the true question shouldn't be whether they were JUSTIFIED in taking their actions, but rather whether their actions furthered their best interests. Israel is a state, and operates through democratic and legislative checks and balances. Hezboulah is a terrorist organization with a few token political tentacles begining to sprout. They are completely different beasts, Israel is a civilized, organized state with the overall well being of the Israeli people both empowering and checking it. Hezboulah is a terrorist group with only one objective, harming Israel.

Israel cannot operate with Hezboulah as if they are peers, they are not. They cannot behave tit-for-tat, push-for-push. That is how Hezboulah wins, they benefit whenever the conflict escolates. Israel is harmed (and they really have no similar "well being of their own people" objective to interfere with their true objective, harming israel), both physically (bombs and missiles) and their standing within the middle-east community of nations and THAT is when they (hez) become more empowered.

Israel was justified in responding with force. Hell, they HAD to respond with force. But they also responded with disproportionate force, and force that is not just targeting their enemy (the parasitic hez) but the host organsm that the hez feeds off of and that Israel WILL have to deal with as peers in the long run, the people/nation of Lebanon.

Israel has recently said they'd accept a multi-nat force (UN?) on the border intervening for both sides. I hope they are serius, and do it QUICK. Whether you hate the UN or not, I really think some non-Israel force in the area is the only hope there is (and US forces wouldn't work either, for fairly obvious reasons, a conclusion BUsh and Condi have seemingly come to as well).

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Drbio

Of course it is true. It is a fact that John Kerry flip flops all over the place. There is a huge difference between changing ones mind and changing ones opinion at every political feedback. Sorry if you are too blinded by liberalism to understand that easy little gem.

Ah well, one man's "fact" is another man's "steaming load of donkey crap"

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Of course some remained but they aren't in command like they used to be. It's not a islamic area anymore like it used to be. Also more innocent people have died on the side of the Palestinians, much more. And I was saying the area had been under a feeling like the time of war so why is that so suprising when so many people are dying daily?

"used to be"??? the window through which you are looking seems to have a lot blocking the view...

"they" weren't "in command" since the fall of the ottomans at the end of WW1. even then, it wasn't the arabs but the turks who were "in command".

as far as a count of innocent lives lost, that is not how one decides who is right.

I'm not surprised people are dying. that is the one constant in how terrorists operate, they have no remorse nor any value to human life. hezbollah could not care less about the loss of life they have caused.

Look at my post above yours and flip threw some of the pictures. Than tell me Israel is not doing anything wrong by killing innocent civilians.

imho israel is attempting to not inflict harm on the civilians, but at the same time they cannot stop acting due to the harm that is coming to civilians.

israel was attacked, its borders were crossed by a foreign element and its citizens were murdered and abducted. it cannot stand by and allow acts such as that to happen, or they will happen over and over. if they negotiate a prisioner swap, the easy solution, they will see more and more of its soldiers abducted as ransom for other prisoners.

society cannot surrender to lawlessness, cannot surrender to the threat of terror. aooeasement of terrorists does not work.

I regret the loss of life by the civilians in lebanon. it could have been avoided however. the government of lebanon should have control of its borders, they should not allow a private militia to operate and jeopardize its citizens.

israel has no choice but to do what it is doing. hezbollah must be stopped, hezbollah must be disarmed. that is the solution, there is none other.

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Ah well, one man's "fact" is another man's "steaming load of donkey crap"

Made me laugh...so let's agree that John Kerry is in fact a steaming load of donkey crap.

[mqywaaah]

I find Muslims really scary. Like here, in the Philippines in the old times, if you mess with some Muslim guy, like in a criminal kind of way, their relatives, or any Muslim present at that time, would get back at you, plus all your relatives too, if they knew who you were. They call it, " Ubusan ng Lahi." or clannicide. I guess that's their way of looking out for their own. They're really sensitive about their own people. That's why i guess, sometime soon the other Arab countries would back up Lebanon if this war doesnt end. I just hope that they'd stop for the sake of their people. They're the ones getting caught up in the middle of all these.

[AxdemxO]

ISRAEL HAS KILLED HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS AND WOUNDED MORE THN A THOUSAND IN LEBANON.....ONLY ABOUT 35 PEOPLE IN ISRAEL HAVE BEEN KILLED AND 19 OF THEM WERE SOLDIERS. YET ISRAEL SAYS THAT HEZBOLLAH IS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS...THESE KIDS DONT DESERVE THIS, THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE WAR. YET ISRAEL IS TARGETING THEM AND ALL THE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN LEBANON.



http://www.netlebanon.com/LebAttacks2006/

[Windmill360]

i lived in lebanon for a year in 1998 and have good friends there. hope they are safe. they basically cant leave their basement of their appartment and have little to no contact with us.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

ISRAEL HAS KILLED HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS AND WOUNDED MORE THN A THOUSAND IN LEBANON.....ONLY ABOUT 35 PEOPLE IN ISRAEL HAVE BEEN KILLED AND 19 OF THEM WERE SOLDIERS. YET ISRAEL SAYS THAT HEZBOLLAH IS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS...THESE KIDS DONT DESERVE THIS, THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE WAR. YET ISRAEL IS TARGETING THEM AND ALL THE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN LEBANON.

http://www.netlebanon.com/LebAttacks2006/

first, if israel were "targeting them" the deaths would be in the tens of thousands rather than the hundreds.

second, i agree, the kids do not "deserve" finding themselves in harms way. it is regrettable and sad.

so the question is, why did the lebanese not disarm hezbollah? why did the government of lebanon allow for a non-governmental militia to bring this war to their country?

there would not be any war afflicting these children if hezbollah had not acted so carelessly and provocatively.

btw do you know where your caps lock button is? then push it...

[AxdemxO]

I M SORRY WHTS THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON?

ITS NOT AS EASY AS EVERY1 SAYS TO DISARM A MILITIA LIKE HEZBOLLAH BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF THEM AND BECAUSE THEY MAKE UP A HUGE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. I M SURE THEY WERE WORKING ON DISARMING THE HEZBOLLAH FIGHTERS, BUT LETS SAY THAT THEY HAD ACCONPLISHED THAT AND A WAR BROKE OUT. WHO WOULD BE THERE TO DEFEND LEBANON.....IT WOULD BE 60,000 TROOPS AGAINST ISRAELS 200,000.

SEE I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A GROUP OR CIVILIANS ARE DISARMED IN A COUNTRY LIKE LEBANON. MASSACER'S HAPPEN BECASUE THE US AND THE UN THINK THEY ARE DOING A GOOD THING BY DISARMIONG THESE PEOPLE, BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE JUST SETTING THEM UP TO BE DEFENSLESS AND BE SLAUGHTERED BY THE OTHER SIDE. BEEN THERE SEEN THAT..SOO UR WEAK ARGUEMENTS ARE OF NO USE TO ME.

http://www.netlebanon.com/LebAttacks2006/

[Mavdog]

you can't find the caps lock button? go figure....

well then, if "it's not easy to disarm a militia" then by all means why do it? i mean if it's hard to do gosh why even try....
hint: by not having private armies the chance of war is reduced/by only having the state military there is the rule of law/by disarming hezbollah innocent civilians would not be dying today

hezbollah is a small minority in the current lebanese government. by their actions of the past two weeks they should be expunged from any role as they clearly do not have any loyalty to the lebanese government or to the people of lebanon.

it is up to the legitimate government of lebanon to protect and defend its citizens, not a private militia of terrorists.

[AxdemxO]

But if there was no Hezbollah Lebanon would be deafeated in one day by Israel. In that reagion ther will always be battles because of religion and because the land was divided unfairly. So groups like this are needed for countries like Lebanon. There is actually a lot of good that they do too. And Israel is not better, if anythin theyr worse cuz they kill more civilians.

[mcsluggo]

"Why didn't the governement of Lebanon disarm Hez"?

You ask that question as if it where the govt of Israel or Germany or the US we are talking about, rather than the 48 LB weakling govt that emerged after Syria "pulled" out. Lebanon WAS a re-emerging shattered state. Lebanon WAS one of the few bright points in the middle east the last few years, but becasue of its TRAJECTORY, not its relative position (in stability or strength or economy or whatever). Its trajectory was nice, but it was starting from a pretty low point.

Asking that question is almost like asking Karzai why the hell he hasn't disarmed teh militias on the pakistani border... I mean he IS the government, right? Why doesn't he just write a law? (btw I know lebanon is not in the same league of disfunction as Afghanistan, but the general point still holds)



As an aside to ALL the people who have been posting on the board, you are aware that Lebanon is 40% christian, right? THe hez strong-hold areas are not majority christians, but there are a ton around the country.