I'm Liking This Team

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I'm biased when it comes to Kidd. Guy is one of my favorite players of all time probably#2 with Dirk as #1. I will also point out he played excellent defense against Kobe and Wade in the 2011 season. When Kidd was rested and healthy he was a beast.

I do agree that it is a definite improvement from last year. Hell I've been one of the biggest sign Monta guys here. Calderon I'm iffy on but I'm willing to give him a chance. I think he will bring some stability to the pg position the next couple years until Mekel or Larkin is ready to take the reins. I'm much more excited for Monta and bringing Wright back.

I get that. I'm really think Calderon is going to deliver. I'm envisioning the Kidd/Dirk combo but with a real outside shot, something Kidd really didn't have his last couple years with us. His shot was painfully slow in '12, bunch of teams didn't even bother guarding him in transition. Calderon was my first choice pick for PG this off season and I'm very excited to get him. But I agree that he's more of a stop gap transition to a younger guard to build a future team around. Hopefully it's one of the guys we picked up this year so we don't run into the same desperation for a PG as we did post Kidd as Calderon ages his way onto the bench. If we get a solid 2 years starting and mentoring our young guys out of Calderon, I'd call his deal the best front office move since trading for Jason Kidd. I'm also very happy to have Wright back, but really never thought that was going to end any other way.

[SMC0007]

Kidd couldn't guard quick pg's either.

He couldn't hit a layup to save his life.

He posed no threat to score inside the 3pt line.

It may be a reach to expect Calderon to duplicate what Kidd gave us during that amazing run thru the playoffs, but I don't think it's a stretch. I'd bet that Calderon makes this team much more efficient. It won't look remotely close to as busted and lost as we did last year.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Kidd couldn't guard quick pg's either.

He couldn't hit a layup to save his life.

He posed no threat to score inside the 3pt line.

It may be a reach to expect Calderon to duplicate what Kidd gave us during that amazing run thru the playoffs, but I don't think it's a stretch. I'd bet that Calderon makes this team much more efficient. It won't look remotely close to as busted and lost as we did last year.

Calderon is definitely a smart floor general like Kidd, so I can see a comparison in that regard.

[NeedlesKane]

moogle, how did you really know that Ledo was the player causing the hold up on the rest of the signings? I'm impressed in how you were correct about him being the next player to be signed.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

moogle, how did you really know that Ledo was the player causing the hold up on the rest of the signings? I'm impressed in how you were correct about him being the next player to be signed.

moogle, is that you?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ut5jfA_Sw
Check out the Finley pass at 3:45

Damn..dirk gets the rebound, can't find an outlet so he dribbles to the baseline for a pull up over vlade. Sheeeeeeeeeeetttt.

And he says van excel won the series, may have but I love those dirkster products.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I agree with this. Ellis is an amazing talent entering the prime of his career. If he is willing to learn from Carlisle and some of the older veteran players, he could be a legitimate star. If he maintains the same shot selection that he's had in the past (which I doubt, honestly), he'll be a real headache at times.

Also, Carlisle is going to expect him to defend consistently. He definitely has the physical talent for it. He can stay in front of anybody if he works at it. And I expect Carlisle to make him work.

Should be fun to watch.

I have my concerns with guys that have never shown good shot selection consistently in his career... but, that's a big reason as to why he was available relatively cheaply.

[twelli]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Damn..dirk gets the rebound, can't find an outlet so he dribbles to the baseline for a pull up over vlade. Sheeeeeeeeeeetttt.

And he says van excel won the series, may have but I love those dirkster products.

The Bradley behind the back pass was cool. Insert Chandler for him, though, and you have a championship team right there. In hindsight, parting with Nash was not the best decision the Mavs have made in the past 10 years. On the other hand, a guy who chooses Phoenix/money over best friend/great team... Nash can suck it.

[sike]

My favorite thing about this off season's activity: It makes actually landing a big/ish fish next off season FAR more likely.

[sike]

Originally Posted by sike

My favorite thing about this off season's activity: It makes actually landing a big/ish fish next off season FAR more likely.

having said that, I am really pumped to see this team gel and make a fight of it.

It is the kind of roster that Carlisle will love: One full of talented veterans.

[Firnen]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

moogle, how did you really know that Ledo was the player causing the hold up on the rest of the signings? I'm impressed in how you were correct about him being the next player to be signed.

i'm not moogle, but i'll try to explain. If you know a little bit about the CBA it is the expected move to sign your second round pick prior to the undrafted guys or minimum free agents because you can get 2 additional years.

Via Espn:
Second-round pick Ricky Ledo signed with the Dallas Mavericks, the team announced.
Because the Mavs are not yet over the salary cap, they were able to sign Ledo for four seasons instead of the two years second-round picks on over-the-cap teams get.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by DGM

Yes, I am a homer and an optimist but I believe that the Mavs upgraded quite a bit. Here's why:

Calderon is a big upgrade over Collison
Ellis is a big upgrade over Mayo
Big Sam gives us defense and rebounding that we didn't have last year in the middle.
Trix and Carter are pros who can be counted on.
Dirk will be better due to improved health, having a point guard to get the ball to him and having Ellis to take some scoring pressure off him. I am really looking forward to seeing Ellis in the isolation game with Dirk. Plus, the bottom line is that Dirk is still an A player with better health and a better supporting cast.
Wright, Mekel, Larkin, Sarge and Crowder can provide good bench support.
RC is a much better coach with a seasoned core group instead of knuckleheads like Collison and Mayo.

This team could click. This season may be a lot of fun.

Can't wait to see this team with Calderon and Harris. I like Big Sam's mean streak too.

[wilmtalk]

Definitely a roster Carlisle will be able to work with. However sometime in the future it will be come necessary to develop young talent and build some of the roster through the draft and that is something Carlisle will not be able to accomplish.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Definitely a roster Carlisle will be able to work with. However sometime in the future it will be come necessary to develop young talent and build some of the roster through the draft and that is something Carlisle will not be able to accomplish.

The only teams that truly build through the draft have either one huge 1-3 pick or multiple 1-5 picks in multiple years. And even with multiple high picks your still not guaranteed success (bobcats,kings) The mavericks will never be a team near last or get a really high pick. It's near impossible to create a team with picks 15-25 year after year without being just way too lucky. For now and the foreseeable future the mavs will continue to have to rely on free agent acquisitions.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Definitely a roster Carlisle will be able to work with. However sometime in the future it will be come necessary to develop young talent and build some of the roster through the draft and that is something Carlisle will not be able to accomplish.

I would suggest that Wright (only 26 and was a top 10 pick), Ellis (27), and the development of either Larkin or Mekel that there is a nice younger core forming here. Now if Larkin, Ledo, and Mekel all turn out to be busts, I'll be screaming about the poor Mavs scouting very soon. However, given Mekel's performance I see some promise. He's just very, very green. Needs to control the ball a bit better and reduce some of his riskier passes. Certainly could blossom into a future backup, not bad for an undrafted pickup. Really want to see what we've got with Larkin...

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Definitely a roster Carlisle will be able to work with. However sometime in the future it will be come necessary to develop young talent and build some of the roster through the draft and that is something Carlisle will not be able to accomplish.

I think you could make the argument that

A) talent acquisition is the job of a GM and not a coach
B) That Carlisle has never been given great rookies, because he's only coached a team the year after being in the lottery twice since he's been coach-- once in 2000, when he wasn't in on the selection and the second time was this summer. Just look at his teams that he's coached. Playoff records are at the end.

Head Coach
2000 - Pistons - 32-50 - Was hired after the draft so did not pick Rodney White
2001 - Pistons - 50-32 - E. Conf Semis
2002 - Pistons - 54-28 - E. Conf Finals
2003 - Pacers - 61-21 - E. Conf Finals
2004 - Pacers - 44-38 - E. Conf. Semis
2005 - Pacers - 41-41 - First round
2006 - Pacers - 35-47 - Lottery team, butresigned before he got to see the draft pick
2008 - Mavericks - 50-32 - W. Conf Semis
2009 - Mavericks - 55-27 - W. Conf Finals
2010 - Mavericks - 57-25 - Won championship
2011 - Mavericks - 36-30 - First round
2012 - Mavericks - 41-41 - Lottery, working with those picks now

The bolded are the only times in his entire career where he was sitting on a lottery pick. This year was the first year that he was able to draft in the lottery, help select the player and then coach the player in the next year, although with Larkin's injury that isn't guaranteed either.

C) Carlisle played his rookies a lot last year (James played 46 games and started 11)(Crowder played 78 games and started 16).
D) There is no reason to believe that Carlisle even has a track record of failing to develop young talent or doesn't play rookies that is any worse than any other winning coach.

[wilmtalk]

The draft is only one way in which a team can acquire young talent. They can also acquire them through trades or even sometimes from players that get cut by other teams. Of course that requires the ability to assess undeveloped talent. Most players that are taken high in the draft are usually NBA ready and require very little development. I am referring to potentially quality players one finds farther down in the draft. From what I have seem Carlisle personality type does not lend itself to the patience and insight required for underdeveloped younger players. Some might eventually develop despite him rather than because of him. His methodical nature is uncomfortable with all that appears inconsistent. His focus on methodology reflects his lack of vision which makes it difficult for him to see potential or what could be. This makes him a good X's and O's guy but a bad teacher.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

The draft is only one way in which a team can acquire young talent. They can also acquire them through trades or even sometimes from players that get cut by other teams. Of course that requires the ability to assess undeveloped talent. Most players that are taken high in the draft are usually NBA ready and require very little development. I am referring to potentially quality players one finds farther down in the draft. From what I have seem Carlisle personality type does not lend itself to the patience and insight required for underdeveloped younger players. Some might eventually develop despite him rather than because of him. His methodical nature is uncomfortable with all that appears inconsistent. His focus on methodology reflects his lack of vision which makes it difficult for him to see potential or what could be. This makes him a good X's and O's guy but a bad teacher.

Except the math just doesn't support it. Young talent (defined as 18-25) develops as well for him as any active coach right now not named Popovic. He even beats some of the greatest coaches of all time like Jackson, Riley, Nelson and Tomjanovich. Mavs fans whined when we had Nelson, too, and he also turns out to be one of the elite coaches at developing young talent.

This is a stock argument that every team makes, because it feels justified for every coach in the league. 90% of players fail. 9% become mediocre and hang around in the league. Only 1% (or less) ever become stars. If it feels like your current coach is failing to develop talent it's because most talent doesn't stick around. Even with stars playing for 15-20 years, the NBA average is only 6.07 years and the average NBA player doesn't retire-- they are bumped from the league at an average age of 27.76 years old, because they are either injured or just never developed into the player they could have been.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Except the math just doesn't support it. Young talent (defined as 18-25) develops as well for him as any active coach right now not named Popovic. He even beats some of the greatest coaches of all time like Jackson, Riley, Nelson and Tomjanovich. Mavs fans whined when we had Nelson, too, and he also turns out to be one of the elite coaches at developing young talent.

This is a stock argument that every team makes, because it feels justified for every coach in the league. 90% of players fail. 9% become mediocre and hang around in the league. Only 1% (or less) ever become stars. If it feels like your current coach is failing to develop talent it's because most talent doesn't stick around. Even with stars playing for 15-20 years, the NBA average is only 6.07 years and the average NBA player doesn't retire-- they are bumped from the league at an average age of 27.76 years old, because they are either injured or just never developed into the player they could have been.

Depends on what you consider fail. I would suggest the ultimate failure is never seeing any action in an NBA game which points to a complete failure of scouting. The Dirk era Mavs have got to be ranking among the highest failure rate. Granted we've made some excellent trades which in turn got us a championship. But expecting some value out of the draft, even if it's players in limited minutes, I don't think is crazy. Even by your numbers, we have a much higher than 90% fail rate in the draft.

[The Ghost of Championship]

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

Not only did Cuban miss out on Dwight, and on Deron. . . .He couldn't even sign Kevin Martin over Chuckie Ellis! Monta is a bottom five efficient scorer in the league, turns the ball over more than he assists, can't shoot a three to save his life, and makes boneheaded mistakes when the game is on the line. In what universe is that worth a couple million precious dollars of cap room than Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league?

And don't get me started on Cuban thinking a frontcourt sieve was the way to win championships. Pairing Ellis with a point guard who plays defense like a lawn chair? What was Mark Cuban thinking? And to lock it together for three years?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

So what'd you guys have for lunch today? I had a mushroom swiss burger. Pretty good.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So what'd you guys have for lunch today? I had a mushroom swiss burger. Pretty good.

I had carnitas and fajita tacos. Two of the latter and one of the former. Very tasty with the green sauce on top. Very tasty.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So what'd you guys have for lunch today? I had a mushroom swiss burger. Pretty good.

Lunch was just a brown-bag affair, but I'm heading out to get one of the best green chili burgers around. Family in town means no Mavs tonight for me, but it does mean some good food.

[NorwegianMavsFan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So what'd you guys have for lunch today? I had a mushroom swiss burger. Pretty good.

Homemade chicken curry soup. Damn I´m proud of myself.

[Skywalker]

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Death to optimism!

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

Not only did Cuban miss out on Dwight, and on Deron. . . .He couldn't even sign Kevin Martin over Chuckie Ellis! Monta is a bottom five efficient scorer in the league, turns the ball over more than he assists, can't shoot a three to save his life, and makes boneheaded mistakes when the game is on the line. In what universe is that worth a couple million precious dollars of cap room than Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league?

And don't get me started on Cuban thinking a frontcourt sieve was the way to win championships. Pairing Ellis with a point guard who plays defense like a lawn chair? What was Mark Cuban thinking? And to lock it together for three years?

Stopped reading after you said in no way is ellis an upgrade over mayo you're definitely going to have to explain yourself on that silly comment

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

Not only did Cuban miss out on Dwight, and on Deron. . . .He couldn't even sign Kevin Martin over Chuckie Ellis! Monta is a bottom five efficient scorer in the league, turns the ball over more than he assists, can't shoot a three to save his life, and makes boneheaded mistakes when the game is on the line. In what universe is that worth a couple million precious dollars of cap room than Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league?

And don't get me started on Cuban thinking a frontcourt sieve was the way to win championships. Pairing Ellis with a point guard who plays defense like a lawn chair? What was Mark Cuban thinking? And to lock it together for three years?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Lunch was just a brown-bag affair, but I'm heading out to get one of the best green chili burgers around. Family in town means no Mavs tonight for me, but it does mean some good food.

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I had carnitas and fajita tacos. Two of the latter and one of the former. Very tasty with the green sauce on top. Very tasty.

Originally Posted by NorwegianMavsFan

Homemade chicken curry soup. Damn I´m proud of myself.

So many great choices.

Tomorrow I'm traveling, so I'll probably get some food at the airport. They have a good sandwich place there. I like turkey and mayo myself. But really, the possibilities are endless.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So many great choices.

Tomorrow I'm traveling, so I'll probably get some food at the airport. They have a good sandwich place there. I like turkey and mayo myself. But really, the possibilities are endless.

I also love a good turkey and mayo sandwich. I had one several years ago at a golf tournament in Houston that I still remember to this day. There was something about the balance of ingredients, or maybe it was the right kind of cheese and lettuce, maybe even the temperature at which it was served--hard to say, but that was one hell of a turkey and mayo sandwich.

I hear you about the endless choices, though. It might pay not to get stuck in a rut. Today I had another fajitas taco for lunch (this time just one, but it was bigger), as well as something they called a burrito but I thought was more like a chimichanga. Street food, really. Maybe tomorrow I'll do something more the sit-down variety.

[antoinewalker]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

Not only did Cuban miss out on Dwight, and on Deron. . . .He couldn't even sign Kevin Martin over Chuckie Ellis! Monta is a bottom five efficient scorer in the league, turns the ball over more than he assists, can't shoot a three to save his life, and makes boneheaded mistakes when the game is on the line. In what universe is that worth a couple million precious dollars of cap room than Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league?

And don't get me started on Cuban thinking a frontcourt sieve was the way to win championships. Pairing Ellis with a point guard who plays defense like a lawn chair? What was Mark Cuban thinking? And to lock it together for three years?

truth.

[The Ghost of Championship]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

LOL @ this optimism. In no way is Ellis an upgrade over Mayo.

Not only did Cuban miss out on Dwight, and on Deron. . . .He couldn't even sign Kevin Martin over Chuckie Ellis! Monta is a bottom five efficient scorer in the league, turns the ball over more than he assists, can't shoot a three to save his life, and makes boneheaded mistakes when the game is on the line. In what universe is that worth a couple million precious dollars of cap room than Kevin Martin, one of the most efficient players in the league?

And don't get me started on Cuban thinking a frontcourt sieve was the way to win championships. Pairing Ellis with a point guard who plays defense like a lawn chair? What was Mark Cuban thinking? And to lock it together for three years?

You, sir, are a ******* moran!

[The Ghost of Championship]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

You, sir, are a ******* moran!

Except the part about defense. Spot on, obv.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Uh oh, looks like someone is off of his medication again...

[orphenn]

lmao is he talking to himself or what

[alby]

Regarding Monta Ellis-

As it currently stands, Monta is shooting 46% from the field, 36% from three, and 83% from the free throw line, while averaging a team-high 5.9 assists.

The 46% FG is his best mark in 8 years.
The 36% 3PT is tied for a career best.
The 83.4% FT is a career best.

NBA shooting guards:
The 46% FG is good for 10th in the NBA.
The 36% 3PT is good for 27th in the NBA.
The 83.4% FT is good for 8th in the NBA.
The 5.9 assists is good for 2nd in the NBA.
The 20.6 PPG is good for 4th in the NBA.

Pretty efficient IMO. It may not seem like it, but he's been worth the contract.