The Official: Dirk Nowitzki Watch: Thread

[LRB]

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous

The all-star game has little to do with performance... it is the fans choice who gets to play. It is about what we want to see. I thought the German votes would make it a landslide for Dirk.

Maybe there aren't as many NBA fans as you thought in Germany. Or maybe the German Fans are just dissappointed in Dirk's play this year.

[ReDIRKulous]

It's more than just reduced stats because there's more talent on his team, Dirk's game has seriously regressed this year. IMO Dirk shouldn't even make the allstar team at this point. If he does, it will be for last year's play.

It should definately be from the last years play. That is why Vince Carter got the most votes last year.

I think the problem with Germany is that they are very impartial. they won't just vote Dirk in because he is their guy. Which is a bummer.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

If Keith Van Horn were dropping 19/7, it'd be a pretty good year. But for Dirk, I'd say it's pretty mediocre myself. His scoring average is down 6.5 ppg while he's averaging close to 3 rebounds fewer per game. In fact, he's having a piss poor year given his ability.

Garnett, on the other hand, is averaging 23.9 ppg, 14.2 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 4.6 apg, 1.1 spg. Those are MVP numbers. If you can't believe that Garnett's beating Dirk out for the All-Star team, well, you just don't have a whole lot of common sense.

READ READ READ. I never denied KG is better. KG IS HAVING A SUPERIOR YEAR, HE WAYY DESERVES TO BE IN THE GAME OVER DIRK, AS DOES TD AND ZACHAREY FOR SUREE. All I said was it wasn't mediocre. Oh, and 0 point games (PHO ankle game) hurt your ppg, as do reduceed minutes and shots

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: LRB

Well having their team play kickass ball will certainly help. While the Mavs bumbling on the road will certainly hurt Dirk's case. But Dirk has been no where dominant in his stats. It's more than just reduced stats because there's more talent on his team, Dirk's game has seriously regressed this year. IMO Dirk shouldn't even make the allstar team at this point. If he does, it will be for last year's play.

Yep, its dirk's fault he doesn't ballhog it, it's his fault he has to play center, its his fault his minutes are way reduced, his fault he got hurt and his fault nellie doesn't even try to involve him in the
O and he has gotten well less shots and touches. Yep, dirk's fault.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous

Shaq and Kobe's stats are way down because of their all star casts too... but has that hurt their all-star votes?

Its ok for shaq to avg. only 20 ppg, double standards man.

[kg_veteran]

READ READ READ. I never denied KG is better. KG IS HAVING A SUPERIOR YEAR, HE WAYY DESERVES TO BE IN THE GAME OVER DIRK, AS DOES TD AND ZACHAREY FOR SUREE. All I said was it wasn't mediocre. Oh, and 0 point games (PHO ankle game) hurt your ppg, as do reduceed minutes and shots

I did read. You said Dirk wasn't playing mediocre. And you're wrong. His play has been terribly mediocre to this point in the season. I can think of only one standout performance this season, and it was against a heavily depleted Warriors squad on the second night of the season.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

mediocre? lol, cute. 19/7 on good shooting.

Combine the dramatic decrease in stats with Dirk's reluctance to play anything resembling defense, he is having an awful season. It isn't even mediocre.

[kg_veteran]

Yep, its dirk's fault he doesn't ballhog it

Ah, yes. If Dirk were just getting more shots, it'd all be fine, right? Give me a break. He's just not playing good ball on a regular basis so far.

it's his fault he has to play center

He played a fair amount of center last year, and he still managed to play hard and well. That hasn't happened nearly often enough this year.

its his fault his minutes are way reduced

This is just grossly inaccurate. Subtract the one game where he played 7 minutes due to injury, and he's averaging 36.5 mpg. 2.5 less minutes per game is hardly "way reduced". And he's played in three blowout wins (New Orleans, Utah, Chicago) where he didn't get his normal minutes because he sat in the 4th quarter. Take those three out, and he's averaging 38.5 mpg. The guy is getting plenty of time. He's just not producing as well.

his fault he got hurt

Who blames him for that? No one that I've seen.

and his fault nellie doesn't even try to involve him in the O

Again, grossly inaccurate. Say that he's not involved enough if you want; that's fine. But saying that they don't try to get a guy shooting 14.5 times a game involved in the offense is silly.

Its ok for shaq to avg. only 20 ppg, double standards man.

Have you watched Shaq play this year? His scoring numbers are down because he has more players to share the ball with, but the dude is playing good ball. Flip on ESPN tomorrow night and watch him. Tell me if you think his game has regressed.

[ReDIRKulous]

You guys are nuts. lol

You don't guage someones performance juts on stats. Dirk was carrying this team before he was injured. He is the MVP of this team. He definately deserves to be in the all-star game. The players should be judged from the year before anyway. Good players don't really start hitting their stride till later in the season anyway.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
You guys are nuts. lol

You don't guage someones performance juts on stats. Dirk was carrying this team before he was injured. He is the MVP of this team. He definately deserves to be in the all-star game. The players should be judged from the year before anyway. Good players don't really start hitting their stride till later in the season anyway.

Why am I expecting objective analysis about Dirk from a poster who uses Dirk's name as his login name?

Oh well.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
You guys are nuts. lol

You don't guage someones performance juts on stats. Dirk was carrying this team before he was injured. He is the MVP of this team. He definately deserves to be in the all-star game. The players should be judged from the year before anyway. Good players don't really start hitting their stride till later in the season anyway.

You're nuts. Antoine Walker has been the MVP so far; he's still waiting for Dirk to show up and take over the reigns.

We're all waiting.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Ah, yes. If Dirk were just getting more shots, it'd all be fine, right? Give me a break. He's just not playing good ball on a regular basis so far.

He played a fair amount of center last year, and he still managed to play hard and well. That hasn't happened nearly often enough this year.

This is just grossly inaccurate. Subtract the one game where he played 7 minutes due to injury, and he's averaging 36.5 mpg. 2.5 less minutes per game is hardly "way reduced". And he's played in three blowout wins (New Orleans, Utah, Chicago) where he didn't get his normal minutes because he sat in the 4th quarter. Take those three out, and he's averaging 38.5 mpg. The guy is getting plenty of time. He's just not producing as well.

Who blames him for that? No one that I've seen.

Again, grossly inaccurate. Say that he's not involved enough if you want; that's fine. But saying that they don't try to get a guy shooting 14.5 times a game involved in the offense is silly.

Have you watched Shaq play this year? His scoring numbers are down because he has more players to share the ball with, but the dude is playing good ball. Flip on ESPN tomorrow night and watch him. Tell me if you think his game has regressed.

1. No, it wouldn't be all better. But obviously if he were getting more shots, then his ppg dramatically increase, are you denying this?
2. Are you denying a lot of his problems have been from being forced into center MORE THIS YEAR. Early foul trouble, less involved in the O at center, forced to bang inside with giants like Dampier.
3. Ok, his minutes aren't way reduced. But 2.5 is a conspicuous difference. Plus the fact, you are TAKING A GAME OF 7 MINUTES OUT FROM THIS YEAR'S MPG, HOWEVER, LAST YEAR HE ALSO HAD 2 GAMES I BELIEVE WJERE HE LEFT VERY EARLY, YOU TAKE THOSE OUT, THEN HIS MINUTES PER GAME THIS YEAR ARE FURTHER REDUCED FROM LAST YEAR, NO?
4. Perhaps none blames him for being hurt, however I do believe that has affected his stats, or will you refute that? Seems immutable a 0 point, 1 rebound game hurts your stats, and coming back from injury you'd be rusty, last night.
5. Yes, obviously he is involved, a bit of hyperbole on my part. However, 14.5 shots per game by DIRK NOWITZKI in non-reduced minutes as you admitted is ENTIRELY unacceptable, he is a 25 ppg scorer, now its damn near impossible to post great, or even very good scoring numbers on 14.5 SHOTS PERV GAME. Where's your excuse for nellie here? I guess it's Dirk's fault though. No no, its not nellie who parks dirk on the perimeter, thats dirk's decision. Dirk doesn't want to shoot, it's his fault walker has the ball in his hands whenever nash doesn't. Yeah, it's dirk's fault he can't get more set-play's or even posted up. Yeah, I guess posting him up wouldn't help his ppg, right.
6. Did I say shaq has regressed?? No. Sure, Shaq has more scoring options this year, AND DIRK DOESN'T? Yeah, Just walker and Jamison.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

You're nuts. Antoine Walker has been the MVP so far; he's still waiting for Dirk to show up and take over the reigns.

We're all waiting.

Oh, is that how it is? When is it and Why was Walker able to steal the reigns?? And when exactly is it that Mr. Walker has offered the reigns back??

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I did read. You said Dirk wasn't playing mediocre. And you're wrong. His play has been terribly mediocre to this point in the season. I can think of only one standout performance this season, and it was against a heavily depleted Warriors squad on the second night of the season.

So the game where Dirk uh, OUTSCORED THE ENTIRE HEAT TEAM IN THE 3RD QTR. wasn't taking over? Ok, right.

[Walkerforthree]

"Combine the dramatic decrease in stats with Dirk's reluctance to play anything resembling defense, he is having an awful season. It isn't even mediocre."

His D has been solid, dumb dumb comment there, watch the games please. Yep, combine decrease stats, but ignore decreased shots and touches and involvement in the O, you just love to pick and chose. I can say because Mike Finley gets EVERY SHOT WIDE OPEN and he is still shooting 42% he is a joke having a terrible year, not my opinion, but a fool like you (if not bias toward Mike) would and could say it.

[dirno2000]

The funny thing is, if you were to ask Dirk he would admit that he hasn't been himself this year. I also doubt he would run down a list of excuses like those who shill who him on this board.

The most empty excuse is the "playing center is hurting Dirk's game" argument. On offense he plays nothing like a center. He spends less time in the post than Walker and Jamison.

On defense Nellie is trying to hide him like he always does. He typically places Dirk on the weaker of the opponents 4/5. For instance, when we played Portland, Dirk started on Dale Davis. Not because Davis was the center, but because Davis was an easier match up for Dirk then Randolph. When Nellie played the big-5 against LA, Walker, not Dirk guarded Shaq.

The reason Dirk sometimes gets in foul trouble is that he gets lazy and plays defense with his hands instead of his feet and body. Do you want him guarding the other teams SF so he can go by Dirk all day?

There’s really no reason to mindlessly defend Dirk. Unlike Finley and Walker there is no anti-Dirk faction on the board. Only those who look at him through Mavs colored glasses and those who don’t.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
His D has been solid, dumb dumb comment there, watch the games please.

I hate it when people say crap like this.

"Watch the games"?!?

I've probably been "watching the games" longer than you've been alive. So now that I've established that I have "watched the games" you have to believe me when I say this - Dirk is the worst frontcourt defender on the team. He is the worst defender on the team except for Nash. LAST year Dirk's D was "solid" but this ain't last year. THIS year Dirk has been horrible on D.

[ReDIRKulous]

If someone was totally biased in their support of Dirk would they start a thread like this: my thread

And having created this thread and seeing Dirk's stats decline... I can still say that Dirk was carrying this team before his injury. He was struggling with his threes, but other than that He is performing about the same as last season at this same time. His rebounding numbers are down... but I don't believe that is an accurate representation of Dirk's performance considering that the teams rebounding has dramatically improved.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Yep, its dirk's fault he doesn't ballhog it, it's his fault he has to play center, its his fault his minutes are way reduced, his fault he got hurt and his fault nellie doesn't even try to involve him in the
O and he has gotten well less shots and touches. Yep, dirk's fault.

Newsflash: Making the allstar team is not an entitlement. Dirk is not entitled to make the all star team. And he hasn't earned a position with his play so far this year. I'd have to go back to the last lottery team the Mavs had to find a comparable Dirk.

And as for Shaq and Kobe, when you team kicks ass almost every night, leads the league by in wins. Beats the hell out of chump pretenders like the Mavs. Then the best players are going to get a nod for the allstar game. And they've earned it.

Dirk needs to suck it up and start playing at allstar level. He definitely hasn't done that this year and the Mavs are hurting for it.

[kg_veteran]

1. No, it wouldn't be all better. But obviously if he were getting more shots, then his ppg dramatically increase, are you denying this?

One would hope that more shots would equal more points. That doesn't address my point -- the guy's not playing good ball so far this year.

2. Are you denying a lot of his problems have been from being forced into center MORE THIS YEAR. Early foul trouble, less involved in the O at center, forced to bang inside with giants like Dampier.

Yes, I'm denying that. As dirno aptly pointed out, it's not like Dirk plays like a center on offense. He's being used basically the same way. And Dirk is almost always "hidden" on defense -- that is, he is asked to guard the least dangerous opponent. He's been getting into early foul trouble from playing lazy defense, with his hands rather than with his feet, and from making unintelligent basketball plays. The Mavericks as a team are bad about committing cheap (and weak) fouls, but Dirk is one of the worst.

If Dirk wanted to play adequate defense, he could. He's athletically gifted enough, and he has the skills and abilities. Draw your own conclusions as to why he isn't playing adequate defense.

3. Ok, his minutes aren't way reduced. But 2.5 is a conspicuous difference. Plus the fact, you are TAKING A GAME OF 7 MINUTES OUT FROM THIS YEAR'S MPG, HOWEVER, LAST YEAR HE ALSO HAD 2 GAMES I BELIEVE WJERE HE LEFT VERY EARLY, YOU TAKE THOSE OUT, THEN HIS MINUTES PER GAME THIS YEAR ARE FURTHER REDUCED FROM LAST YEAR, NO?

Please don't shout.

Dirk may be losing 2-3 minutes per game because we have more talent on the front line now, but I have a hard time listening to anybody saying that his poor play is because he isn't receiving enough minutes.

4. Perhaps none blames him for being hurt, however I do believe that has affected his stats, or will you refute that? Seems immutable a 0 point, 1 rebound game hurts your stats, and coming back from injury you'd be rusty, last night.

I'm not even talking about stats. I'm talking about a passiveness and lack of effort from Dirk. I'm talking about an unwillingness to play hard on defense and to crash the boards. I'm talking about a tendency to just stand around and watch. I don't care whether he scores 25 ppg or not. In fact, I'd rather have 20 pts, 10 reb, 2 blk, 1 stl from him any day than 25 ppg while the rest of his game suffers.

5. Yes, obviously he is involved, a bit of hyperbole on my part. However, 14.5 shots per game by DIRK NOWITZKI in non-reduced minutes as you admitted is ENTIRELY unacceptable, he is a 25 ppg scorer, now its damn near impossible to post great, or even very good scoring numbers on 14.5 SHOTS PERV GAME. Where's your excuse for nellie here? I guess it's Dirk's fault though. No no, its not nellie who parks dirk on the perimeter, thats dirk's decision. Dirk doesn't want to shoot, it's his fault walker has the ball in his hands whenever nash doesn't. Yeah, it's dirk's fault he can't get more set-play's or even posted up. Yeah, I guess posting him up wouldn't help his ppg, right.

I admitted his minutes weren't reduced; I didn't admit that his FGA/game are unacceptable. I want him to shoot more, but I'm not complaining about his scoring average. I'm compaining about the things I mentioned above. It'd be nice if Dirk could eventually get around 17-18 FGA/game, but that probably won't happen. Kobe is only getting 15.5 FGA/game after getting a lot more than that last year -- that's what happens when you add new scorers to the team.

I don't need to make any excuses for Nellie. What I need is for Dirk to play like he cares.

6. Did I say shaq has regressed?? No. Sure, Shaq has more scoring options this year, AND DIRK DOESN'T? Yeah, Just walker and Jamison.

You're the one who brought Shaq up. And I'm glad you did, because he's a great example of a guy whose scoring is down but who is playing much better this year than he did the year before. Shaq's doing all of the "other things" very well, and as a result the Lakers are rolling. Bottom line, Dirk needs to decide that he's going to dominate the game, whether he does it by scoring, defending, rebounding, or passing. Until he changes his mentality, his play (and the Mavericks record) will continue to suffer.

Oh, is that how it is? When is it and Why was Walker able to steal the reigns?? And when exactly is it that Mr. Walker has offered the reigns back??

Walker has been the best player on the team this year so far. However, when/if Dirk decides he's going to consistently come to play, he will naturally take over that role based upon superior talent.

Walker and Dirk should be making beautiful music together. I'm optimistic that we'll see that, but I'm realistic enough to recognize that it's not Walker's fault (or Nellie's fault) that Dirk's not playing well at this point.

So the game where Dirk uh, OUTSCORED THE ENTIRE HEAT TEAM IN THE 3RD QTR. wasn't taking over? Ok, right.

You're right. I missed one. Dirk played well against the Warriors and the Heat. 2 games out of 16. Man, Dirk's really a "man possessed" this year, particularly against the elite clubs in the league like Golden State and Miami.

His D has been solid, dumb dumb comment there, watch the games please. Yep, combine decrease stats, but ignore decreased shots and touches and involvement in the O, you just love to pick and chose. I can say because Mike Finley gets EVERY SHOT WIDE OPEN and he is still shooting 42% he is a joke having a terrible year, not my opinion, but a fool like you (if not bias toward Mike) would and could say it.

Watch the games? Is that you, RCF? Dirk's defense has been very subpar this season. I've watched the games. I can't believe you say you've watched him and you feel otherwise. Also, if you knew Max at all, you'd realize he watches the games too, and that this type of comment makes you look pretty silly.

[sike]

oh no you didnt get kg wound up!

[ReDIRKulous]

Walker has been the best player on the team this year so far.

Let me guess... you thought the same thing about NVE last playoffs too, right? lol

[ReDIRKulous]

double post

[Chiwas]

FORGIVE US, DIRK, FORGIVE US!

YOU'RE DA MAN!

[mavs_afroman]

Right now, Walker has been better. That's one good reason for the 13-8 record. Dirk needs to step up and do the job but he hasn't yet and for some reason he doesn't seem all that passionate about playing. Last year, he started the seaon in a shooting slump but his rebounds went up to about 12per and you could see him trying to get to the goal ans work his way out of the slump and when he did he was awesome. This year, he seems content to sit back and watch. He's the difference maker. If he'll step up and start playing hard again that Mavs can be even better than last year because of all the new talent but without that they're not nearly as good.

[kg_veteran]

Let me guess... you thought the same thing about NVE last playoffs too, right? lol

I suppose that means you disagree. So who do you think has been the best player so far this year?

[ReDIRKulous]

Dirk has been the best player this year. But... as best players do.. he has seen the defense focusaed on him every night. He has the best defender on him while Walker has Rasho guarding him. It is just like a Spurs game... even when Duncan didn't score the most, say Stephen Jackson scored the most or Tony Parker or Mnau, he was still the best player. He allowed those guys to go off. Look at Walkers numbers when Dirk wasn't playing. He had a good game against Orlando... but they STINK. Also Nellie has been trying to teach Wlaker his offense. If Nellie wanted to run the offense through dirk he could do that. Don't forget that Dirk had 9 assists against Sac... in a playoff game.

Dirk was carrying the Mavs before he was injured. rebounding is the only thing you could question. I like Walker... but he is a little selfish. i have seen him fight his own teammates for rebounds. Dirk just isn't that kind of guy. He isn't going to set that kind of example and be selfish about stats.

[Bayliss]

Personally I think Dirk has sucked this year. Worse than sucked. Hw has become a glorified Raef LaFrentz. And that's pitiful.

But even with that... if Dirk gets minutes he has shown this year that he can produce:

In the 7 games in which he played 39+ minutes he has these numbers:

48% FG
9.3 RPG
23.5 PPG

Seems like the main reason he can't find a rhythym this year is he can't play his usual 39+ minutes every game. One game he'll get 40. The next game 25. Etc. The above stats are very good numbers. And most on this board would feel those are all-star numbers.

Just give him minutes......

[sike]

Originally posted by: Bayliss
Personally I think Dirk has sucked this year. Worse than sucked. Hw has become a glorified Raef LaFrentz. And that's pitiful.

But even with that... if Dirk gets minutes he has shown this year that he can produce:

In the 7 games in which he played 39+ minutes he has these numbers:

48% FG
9.3 RPG
23.5 PPG

Seems like the main reason he can't find a rhythym this year is he can't play his usual 39+ minutes every game. One game he'll get 40. The next game 25. Etc. The above stats are very good numbers. And most on this board would feel those are all-star numbers.

Just give him minutes......

and shots and an offense that goes through him.....

[LRB]

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Dirk has been the best player this year. But... as best players do.. he has seen the defense focusaed on him every night. He has the best defender on him while Walker has Rasho guarding him. It is just like a Spurs game... even when Duncan didn't score the most, say Stephen Jackson scored the most or Tony Parker or Mnau, he was still the best player. He allowed those guys to go off. Look at Walkers numbers when Dirk wasn't playing. He had a good game against Orlando... but they STINK. Also Nellie has been trying to teach Wlaker his offense. If Nellie wanted to run the offense through dirk he could do that. Don't forget that Dirk had 9 assists against Sac... in a playoff game.

Dirk was carrying the Mavs before he was injured. rebounding is the only thing you could question. I like Walker... but he is a little selfish. i have seen him fight his own teammates for rebounds. Dirk just isn't that kind of guy. He isn't going to set that kind of example and be selfish about stats.

What a crappy excuse which totally doesn't fly. Dirk has had less defensive focus on him this year than in several years. He has guys who can keep the double teams away unlike the Raja's and Griffin's of last year. This is such a lame excuse. Face it Dirk has just sucked eggs this year. Dirk would pretty much agree himself. I'm sure he's not happy about his performance so far. He needs to get the rust off, and then start laying it all out on the line. No more of this half-assed efforts he's given all to often this year.

[sike]

thought I hate to agree with a snowman[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img], The stats prove out the truth in this case.....Walker has been the best player on this team this year...

we all Dirk is the best, but walker has played the best....

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: sike
and an offense that goes through him.....

Dirk doesn't deserve an offense run through him. If he isn't willing to step up and demand the ball then he shouldn't have the offense run through him.

[ReDIRKulous]

Dirk doesn't deserve an offense run through him. If he isn't willing to step up and demand the ball then he shouldn't have the offense run through him.

Like Shaq is demanding the ball?

[dirno2000]

Shaq does demand the ball. If the offense shifts too far away from him, he's the 1st to bring it to Phill's attention. It's not as much of a problem this year with a veteran PG, but that offense never goes too far away from Shaq.

[dude1394]

I have always been leary of dirks lack of aggressiveness. I really think it is cultural and I'm afraid nothing will ever change. I hope I'm wrong, he can compete his rear off, run his rear off, take a smack in the chops and come right back.

I thought I saw some screaming from him last year a little bit and maybe he's letting it go because the rest of the team is still wacked out (stevie in particular). But it is a concern.

[dude1394]

As far as best player on the team between walker and dirk. Walker has been a very nice addition and his rebounding has been great. I don't quite think he's been better than dirk however.

- Shooting percentage really is NOT good.
- FT's stink.


Dirk's still leading the team in scoring, leading the team in blocks and one less assist than the shooting guard (yuck. ;^).

This may be a good discussion to have all year. Walks FT's HAVE to improve or he will be getting the hack-a-walk treatment and be quite a detriment at the end of games.

[seelenjaeger]

duh ... wrong thread ... EDIT

[FreshJive]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I suppose that means you disagree. So who do you think has been the best player so far this year?

I say Nash despite the Clipper game or overall stats.

[LRB]

Well Dirk showed up in full all-star force tonight. Let's hope that tonight's game is a premonition of things to come.

[Bayliss]

Dirk also got his usual number of minutes too.

Dirk has some terrible games sometimes. But if you give players regular minutes, they are more likely to be consistent.