Rodrigue Beaubois: SG or PG?

[grndmstr_c]

When I think of the potential awesomeness of player pairings in the mold of "Wade + Current_Maverick", Booby's at best 11th on my list of names that my imagination prefers to substitute in for the "Current_Maverick" placeholder.

Mind you, that's not a knock on Booby. It's just that the top 10 slots on my list all have Dirk's name filled in.

[sike]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Mind you, that's not a knock on Booby. It's just that the top 10 slots on my list all have Dirk's name filled in.

ha

[spreedom]

For the time being, I think Roddy's best role/positional fit would be our 6th man at the PG spot. Matchup-wise, he is the right size and is quick enough to guard almost any PG in the league, and with the second unit he's probably good enough to be the main scoring option. I'd like him to do this until Kidd retires, and hopefully by that time he'll be up to snuff as a legit scoring PG on a contender.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

The thing about point guard skills is that they don't normally pop out of nowhere. They didn't for JET as you mentioned, and I'm doubtful that it's going to happen with Roddy. From everything I've read from before he was a Mav and seen from him since then, Roddy's point guard skills have always been a question mark. I'm sure Roddy will get more of a chance to prove his worth as a point next year, but until I actually see it from him, I'm going to remain skeptical.

I don't doubt your basic premise but there are degrees of point guard skills. Kidd probably sits at the top of the spectrum (at least vintage Kidd) and someone like Tony Parker sits at the bottom. In other words can he bring the ball up the floor without turning it over and occasionally hit the open man. It think it's way to early to rule out the latter, especially when he hasn't really been put in that position.

He's shown signs of having good vision. Granted it's mostly been in summer league and pre-season but it's there. The question is, can he develop the instincts to be a competent league guard. I don't know that answer but you have to give him the chance. I'd rather have Tony Parker than Ben Gordon.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't doubt your basic premise but there are degrees of point guard skills. Kidd probably sits at the top of the spectrum (at least vintage Kidd) and someone like Tony Parker sits at the bottom. In other words can he bring the ball up the floor without turning it over and occasionally hit the open man. It think it's way to early to rule out the latter, especially when he hasn't really been put in that position.

He's shown signs of having good vision. Granted it's mostly been in summer league and pre-season but it's there. The question is, can he develop the instincts to be a competent league guard. I don't know that answer but you have to give him the chance. I'd rather have Tony Parker than Ben Gordon.

I can't necessarily disagree with any of that. It will certainly be interesting to watch it play out.

[kchan]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't doubt your basic premise but there are degrees of point guard skills. Kidd probably sits at the top of the spectrum (at least vintage Kidd) and someone like Tony Parker sits at the bottom. In other words can he bring the ball up the floor without turning it over and occasionally hit the open man. It think it's way to early to rule out the latter, especially when he hasn't really been put in that position.

He's shown signs of having good vision. Granted it's mostly been in summer league and pre-season but it's there. The question is, can he develop the instincts to be a competent league guard. I don't know that answer but you have to give him the chance. I'd rather have Tony Parker than Ben Gordon.

I bet having Kidd mentor him is a big help...^_^

[wilmtalk]

This Kidd mentoring thing is way over used and overblown. Because a player can do something does not mean that he wants to or even can teach another player. They are too different skills. You can learn more from watching a player play on film than by being on the court with him. Roddy needs game experience anything else he can learn through practice. Roddy is not going to learn to play the point by sitting on the bench as Kidd plays. This is a mantra that has been used to justifiy Kidds declining talents at the point.

[kchan]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

This Kidd mentoring thing is way over used and overblown. Because a player can do something does not mean that he wants to or even can teach another player. They are too different skills. You can learn more from watching a player play on film than by being on the court with him. Roddy needs game experience anything else he can learn through practice. Roddy is not going to learn to play the point by sitting on the bench as Kidd plays. This is a mantra that has been used to justifiy Kidds declining talents at the point.

Its Rick's fault for not playing him, but during practice is where the mentoring thing gets in, when the players get to talk after drills, and after scrimmage talking about what they could have done better (although I dont really see Rick as that kind of coach). Most players who have played with Kidd all talk of him doing these kinds of things, even the Olympic guys.

However for the record, I'd like Kidd to spend less minutes and give Roddy like 40min of burn out there, even if he spends 20 on pg and 20 on sg.

[Popeye]

He's got all the PG skills: vision, ballhandling, ability to create, and quickness. He just needs time to develop, but he's a PG. Just because he can also score, doesn't mean he's a SG. Every top PG in the league besides Kidd has the ability to score 30+ on any given night.

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by kchan

Its Rick's fault for not playing him, but during practice is where the mentoring thing gets in, when the players get to talk after drills, and after scrimmage talking about what they could have done better (although I dont really see Rick as that kind of coach). Most players who have played with Kidd all talk of him doing these kinds of things, even the Olympic guys.

However for the record, I'd like Kidd to spend less minutes and give Roddy like 40min of burn out there, even if he spends 20 on pg and 20 on sg.

I agree with you. You sort of make my point. I was not saying that Kidd was not a mentor just that because a player is good that would make him able to mentor. I believe what makes Kidd a special player is his court sense. That really can not be taught. I just as you believe that RC is a bad developmental coach. He can't think on the fly and is incapable of making good in game decisions. My reponse was to the posters that seem to think that Kidds value as mentor justifies his contract and playing in games while the player who needs the deveopment sits on the bench. That by watching Kidd play they are going to learn to play point. Older players are good mentors but some of them were just back ups at the later stages of their careers. They later become assistant coaches and then coaches themselves. That is where they belong. Being a mentor and being a player are too seperate issues and it is trying to make them one issue jis what my objection is about.

[BGMaverick9]

He could easily play either position.

Even with the way Rajon Rondo is playing right now...I've thought Roddy could get to RR-caliber play on the court, and even outdo it. Roddy has already shown he's got the shooting range and that's Rondo's weakness.

He just needs to watch Rondo film over and over, see how Rajon uses his wingspan to his advantage and how he's a force on defense with his ability to steal the ball.

It's not out of the realm of possibilities he could be THAT good.

[Budapest Maverick]

But even if he never becomes that good on defense, he's a much more talented offensive player. Offensively, the sky is the limit*. I loved the baby Flash name from Miller (even though i hate Miller and Wade too, lol). He's really that talented. We're looking at a player with a 40+ vertical, ridiculous wingspan (it's good for offense, and defense too) elite speed, and the ability to make all (!) kind of shots (set up jumper, pull up, step back, all kind of floaters, finger rolls, i saw him hit an akward half floater, half jumpshot), he has that kind of shooting touch. Soft as a kitten. As i said earlier, i'd be devastated if we would trade him for Joe Johnson, or Igoudala, anybody outside of the divas.

Everybody's (including Carlisle and Kidd) goal should be to make this kid ready for as early as next season to be our starting combo guard (at PG), and second scoring option. As i type that, i don't think it sounds crazy. I don't think at all. The kid is a natural born scorer, let him do his thing, and don't worry about assists. Assists will come from his speed alone, when he penetrates, and once teams learns what he's capable of as a scorer. And i think he can pass. I don't agree with the motion that he can't. He has solid (not great) court vision. They just didn't allow him to pass the rock, most of the time. Besides, today's NBA is all about penetrating, scoring guards, the rules are tailor made for him.


I downloaded all of his big games, and will put together a solid highlight, with examples of his unique abilities. Hopefully the FO sees him as most of us. Well respected posters on other forums agrees that he should have been a Top 5 pick. I think we all agree. Writers, GM's know about this kid as well, and already consider him as one of the steals of the draft. Hopefully we found a future cornerstone.


*Defensively too, but players who are great scorers, tend to save some energy on the other end... Well, in today's NBA, anyway.

[wilmtalk]

Unfortunatly I believe Roddys biggest problem is RC. I have always felt that the Mavs were not ready this year and should have use it to develop Roddy by playing him on the floor with Kidd. This year was a bust because of the lack of patience disjplayed by the front office. The Haywood/Butler trade seemed to give us a shot and in that way cost us time. I still think that was a great trade but only if we resign Haywood.

We will not win a champianship with Kidd as the primary point and so we needed to develop Roddy. Now we have squanderd a year. This could have been done playing Roddy at the two with Kidd at the one. This was what they implied they were going to do and was the reason that I changed my mind about the sense of signing Kidd.

[DubOverdose]

He's got the ability to drive and kick out to an open shooter. The scoring ability of a SG, but that doesn't mean he can't orchestrate the O.

[Budapest Maverick]

I'm not sure why people think he can't pass. Passing is an idea. It's an approach, a mentality. I hate when people say players are born with court vision. I think that's just stupid. "Passing first" is a mentality. And i sincerely hope it will never be Roddy's mindset, passing the rock first. Okay, when there is a mismatch, obviously...

But what i wanna say, you can't ignore that kind of scoring potential. Isn't he amongst league leaders in PPM? Isn't he, the league leader? In his first season, posting historical numbers. Assists will come through his scoring, through his speed, through his penetration, through the superb shooting.

One more thing, he has great eye-hand coordination, soft touch, and really good awareness (don't remember he got blocked much), what makes you guys think he can't pass? He was pretty much asked to not pass the ball, unless it's a teammate standing right next to him, or he can't finish after a penetration.

But remember the Clippers game? He had 5 assists in 15 minutes maybe? With a couple of great transition assist. That game clearly showed me, that he has great timing, and the very least, he will be a good "drive&kicker". That's what Tony Parker is, mostly, though he improved a little, and he manages to average around 6 assists. That's where it comes from most of Wade's assists as well.

[kchan]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I'm not sure why people think he can't pass. Passing is an idea. It's an approach, a mentality. I hate when people say players are born with court vision. I think that's just stupid. "Passing first" is a mentality. And i sincerely hope it will never be Roddy's mindset, passing the rock first. Okay, when there is a mismatch, obviously...

But what i wanna say, you can't ignore that kind of scoring potential. Isn't he amongst league leaders in PPM? Isn't he, the league leader? In his first season, posting historical numbers. Assists will come through his scoring, through his speed, through his penetration, through the superb shooting.

One more thing, he has great eye-hand coordination, soft touch, and really good awareness (don't remember he got blocked much), what makes you guys think he can't pass? He was pretty much asked to not pass the ball, unless it's a teammate standing right next to him, or he can't finish after a penetration.

But remember the Clippers game? He had 5 assists in 15 minutes maybe? With a couple of great transition assist. That game clearly showed me, that he has great timing, and the very least, he will be a good "drive&kicker". That's what Tony Parker is, mostly, though he improved a little, and he manages to average around 6 assists. That's where it comes from most of Wade's assists as well.

Personally, I'd prefer pass first point guards really, although not sure if there are any left in the league apart from kidd and nash. A pass first point guard with the proper tools (team mates) essentially turns the team into a five headed beast, which can damage you from five points. A score first point guard well, only passes when in traffic, and his team mates wont exactly be expecting the pass as much as if they know they are playing with a pass first kind. Although I'd like a pass first pg with the scoring ability of a tony parker which he can turn on and off anytime he wants. Which Roddy has the potential to become.

[Underdog]

Dirk prefers pass-first point guards...

End of debate.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk prefers pass-first point guards...

End of debate.

He also said numerous times how it's so much easier for him when we have a penetrating guard, who can score. And he still an iso player first and foremost, let's not forget, no to mention, Dirk is not the type of player who benefits the most from a pass first PG anyway. Now of course, the ideal situation would be if that guard is our SG. Can it be Roddy? I think why not? Kidd can guard SG's better these days. I'm pretty sure this was discussed here a couple of times. Roddy needs to be on the court, i guess we can agree on that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

How about pass to Dirk first, then Roddy can do his own thing.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

How about pass to Dirk first, then Roddy can do his own thing.

+1

[Budapest Maverick]

You meant "Check if Dirk is open, if not, get out of the effin way and watch me score on anybody, at will" guard? Sounds good to me.

edit: Oh, now i get it. I wish i could say it was because i'm not a native speaker, but the truth is i was just dumb.

[vinylstar]

He isn't big enough to guard 2's, so I think he needs to be a PG.

I say start him at PG next year for the first 20 games. It is going to be frustrating and inconsistent, but you'll know what you have (or don't have).

[JCmasta]

Roddy should be a SG, that way you can have Dwayne Wade at PG, LBJ at SF, Dirk at PF, and Bosh at C. Roddy might have a easier time if he played off the ball instead of having to lead and direct the team.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk prefers pass-first point guards...

End of debate.

ya and look where that has got us..........
it's time to switch it up.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by kchan

Personally, I'd prefer pass first point guards really, although not sure if there are any left in the league apart from kidd and nash. A pass first point guard with the proper tools (team mates) essentially turns the team into a five headed beast, which can damage you from five points. A score first point guard well, only passes when in traffic, and his team mates wont exactly be expecting the pass as much as if they know they are playing with a pass first kind. Although I'd like a pass first pg with the scoring ability of a tony parker which he can turn on and off anytime he wants. Which Roddy has the potential to become.

If only Kidd can score at will. With Kidd we have a 4 headed beast. I mean you look at Rondo, he was Kidd 10 years ago, but now he's picked up his scoring, and he's using to his advantage, team's giving him space by picking up steam and attacking the cup. If only Kidd had vets to give him that confidence to attack the cup relentlessly, take what the defense gave him routinely.

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

If only Kidd can score at will. With Kidd we have a 4 headed beast. I mean you look at Rondo, he was Kidd 10 years ago, but now he's picked up his scoring, and he's using to his advantage, team's giving him space by picking up steam and attacking the cup. If only Kidd had vets to give him that confidence to attack the cup relentlessly, take what the defense gave him routinely.

If, if , if. If only cows could fly. This team is supposed to be about having the best chance of winning a title, not extending the carreer of Jason Kidd. Lets blame the lack of Kidds diminishing skills ( he is getting old by the way ) on the lack of support from his team. Yes if he had the ideal line up on the floor with him he would be able to display his remaining skills better. But that can only happen in your dreams. We are dealing with reality. Respect Kidds evaluation of his own skills. He does what he can. He no longer has the quickness and foot speed to drive to the basket. I REPEAT THIS TEAM IS NOT ABOUT JASON KIDD.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

I REPEAT THIS TEAM IS NOT ABOUT JASON KIDD.

Its about RoddyB ha

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

If, if , if. If only cows could fly. This team is supposed to be about having the best chance of winning a title, not extending the carreer of Jason Kidd. Lets blame the lack of Kidds diminishing skills ( he is getting old by the way ) on the lack of support from his team. Yes if he had the ideal line up on the floor with him he would be able to display his remaining skills better. But that can only happen in your dreams. We are dealing with reality. Respect Kidds evaluation of his own skills. He does what he can. He no longer has the quickness and foot speed to drive to the basket. I REPEAT THIS TEAM IS NOT ABOUT JASON KIDD.

This team was as ideal for Kidd if ever, I mean you have finishers in Butler, Marion, Dirk and Haywood. Butler averaged almost 20 in the Spurs series. Though Marion only averaged 8 a night.

[kchan]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

This team was as ideal for Kidd if ever, I mean you have finishers in Butler, Marion, Dirk and Haywood. Butler averaged almost 20 in the Spurs series. Though Marion only averaged 8 a night.

We had five heads when Kidd was hitting the three in the regular season. I blame the post season thing on running out of gas because a crazy coach is playing a 37 year old at around 40min a game and not giving Roddy a chance to show himself more. Seriously, Kidd should only play 28-32min and let Roddy have the rest of the minutes at PG, and play him at SG with Kidd more.

And as I said in my previous post: Roddy has the potential to become a pass first point guard with the scoring ability of a Tony parker. A right coach and more practices with Kidd should help open up the "pass first" mentality to Roddy.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by kchan

We had five heads when Kidd was hitting the three in the regular season. I blame the post season thing on running out of gas because a crazy coach is playing a 37 year old at around 40min a game and not giving Roddy a chance to show himself more. Seriously, Kidd should only play 28-32min and let Roddy have the rest of the minutes at PG, and play him at SG with Kidd more.

And as I said in my previous post: Roddy has the potential to become a pass first point guard with the scoring ability of a Tony parker. A right coach and more practices with Kidd should help open up the "pass first" mentality to Roddy.

You know it doesn't matter if you're 37 or 27, if you can play you can play. Honestly I didn't see anything wrong with Kidd being on the court for as long as he was. To me when Kidd is on the court, I always feel like a spark is a second away.

Roddy is already better than Tony Parker if you ask me. He can drive and score and at the same time he has a 3 point shot. Tony doesn't. Oh and did I mention that Roddy has mad hops?

but I agree Kidd and Roddy should be on the court at the same time, but play Roddy at the 2, so he can score like he always does

[kchan]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

You know it doesn't matter if you're 37 or 27, if you can play you can play. Honestly I didn't see anything wrong with Kidd being on the court for as long as he was. To me when Kidd is on the court, I always feel like a spark is a second away.

Roddy is already better than Tony Parker if you ask me. He can drive and score and at the same time he has a 3 point shot. Tony doesn't. Oh and did I mention that Roddy has mad hops?

but I agree Kidd and Roddy should be on the court at the same time, but play Roddy at the 2, so he can score like he always does

At 37, with both knees having had microfracture surgery, yes playing 40 min or so takes its toll. Kidd ran out of gas. Then give him back spasms and colds.....

[wilmtalk]

What Rondo is doing for the Celtics is a perfect example of the future of the league. Orlando can't match up with him. His type is the wave of the future. The quick multifacited point. This is why we need to develope Roddy. And above all do not trade him. The quick points are what have been killing us for two years now. There was an imflux of them as rookies this year. It is not just a few teams such as NO with Paul anymore but many teams that have them. This year should have been used with Roddy at the 2 and Kidd at the point to get Roddy comfortable to take over at the point. Kidd could still be usefull at either the two or three depending on the situation. His days at the point without a quick defender and driving two are numbered. The number of teams that have quick points make that impossible. Kidds ability to make plays and assists could still be utilized if he plays another position besides point.

The major problem with RC and some of the posters on this site is that they don't realize that the game has sped up considerably and speed is really more important than ever before. The slower players that played the traditional half court are dinosuars. Rc is still locked into an old style of play and player that are not successfull in todays game.