[Post Game] Mavs@ Thunder: lol announcer - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Final point...the five that blistered the Thunder in the fourth? Kidd/Jet/Marion/Dirk/Chandler. That five should close just about every single game. I'm willing to accept some matchup changes in rare instances, but by and large that should be your five.

I'll agree if they are banging those boards like they did in the fourth...They were all over the damn place...

I'm a little concerned because without the 3 going in we don't have enough to giterdone...

But screw that, it was a great win at a tough place in adverse conditions..Makes 'em tough for sure...And the thunder were playing well also, they were hitting their shots and playing with some energy...

tcat075 · 11-24-2010, 11:03 PM

My MMB recap. (the quote is unedited so slightly different than the current version if you follow the link)

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2010/11...s-heat-up-late

Quote:

It had been an ugly game. To someone watching the game, without knowing the score, it would have seemed like the Thunder were up by 10 or maybe even 20. But the Mavericks, despite ugly, tired play throughout the game, had hung around.

It was now 81 to 85, just four points away. Dirk steps to the line, knocking down two. 83 to 85.

But then, a three point play by Ibaka. A missed three by Barea, and score by Kevin Durant, and all of a sudden, the easy two point lead had become seven, with momentum against the Mavericks.

That's when Dirk decided to change things. Last night, he had connected on his first corner quite possibly in years. It was not a common sight for him to spot up in the corner. But he did, and Kidd swung the ball to him. Without hesitation, Dirk splashed in the shot. Through and three. Durant misses and shot, and immediately, the ball is worked down the court. This time, Dirk's spotting up on the wing. He buries the shot and Ibaka plows into him immediately afterwards. Four point play.

With that, the Thunder's back was broken. They tried to hang around, but Dirk had ignited Dallas, and there was no stopping them anymore. Terry got the bounce on a three pointer on the very next possession. Kidd, who had thrown up bricks all night, hit a pullup jumper off a pick and roll. A few plays later, he knocked down a three from the top of the key. The dam which had stopped the Mavericks all night had been viciously demolished by Dirk, and the game was over.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He feels too "7th Man" for a guy that we hired to be our Robin...

Did anybody ever think that Butler could be Robin? I'm talking even before he got here? I don't think so.

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I thought he played well in the first half, I just didn't see much that made me feel like he was turning any kind of corner. I just felt like he hit shots that he won't always hit. And when he doesn't hit them he's going to destroy the flow of the offense.

I'm so, so down on Caron right now. I feel like the JJB people.

His game is so indecisive...He seems to waste time immediately once he gets it. He doesn't have the handles to curve around screens, it's a face up jab-stepping....something. I just want him to get the ball, make a decision and go with it. Quit thinking it to death.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He feels too "7th Man" for a guy that we hired to be our Robin...

I agree. I really don't know what's going to happen for sure when Roddy comes back but there's been indications, if Roddy fits the bill, that minutes are going to be significantly altered for a couple of players.

If it were me, I'm starting Marion at the SF...I was on the fence about keeping Stevenson in as a starter simply because I'm afraid of him losing minutes but he's got to be the 2-guard off the bench.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

His game is so indecisive...He seems to waste time immediately once he gets it. He doesn't have the handles to curve around screens, it's a face up jab-stepping....something. I just want him to get the ball, make a decision and go with it. Quit thinking it to death.

That's a great way to put it. He just needs to be decisive. The hesitation is a sign that he lacks confidence. Tonight, I thought he was decisive for the most part, and he helped the team in the first half (which is when he played most of his minutes).

Underdog · 11-24-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Did anybody ever think that Butler could be Robin? I'm talking even before he got here? I don't think so.

You didn't think Butler would out-perform Terry?

I certainly did - isn't that what Josh Howard was supposed to do?

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, one thing that Dirk did tonight in the 4th... that I freakin' loved... after Westbrook switched onto him... he didn't just shoot the 15 footer... he dribbld a couple of times, gathered the ball and forced the foul while trying to shoot a 5 footer in the paint.

That is making the defense pay.

That play by Chandler at the end was awesome where he helped Terry (or Kidd) when the guard got past them... he contested the shot... then after Collison got the offensive rebound... Chandler on his spring immediately jumped again and altered the shot of Collison. Just beautiful.

And the key to guarding Durant (IMO) is to stay close to him and not "slap at the ball"... that is how he gets the rip move. He is waiting for the slap. But he doesn't have great court vision, and his hadles at his size are good but not compared to other SFs... so you want to make him put it on the floor and into a tough shot. Marion did that great.

Nice and agreed...I love seeing him power his way through midgets...

chumdawg · 11-24-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Did anybody ever think that Butler could be Robin? I'm talking even before he got here? I don't think so.

Yeah...I think that trade was more about squeezing the last blood out of the turnip than it was about bringing in a Robin.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I agree. I really don't know what's going to happen for sure when Roddy comes back but there's been indications, if Roddy fits the bill, that minutes are going to be significantly altered for a couple of players.

If it were me, I'm starting Marion at the SF...I was on the fence about keeping Stevenson in as a starter simply because I'm afraid of him losing minutes but he's got to be the 2-guard off the bench.

This is what's going to happen:

Chandler/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Butler 24 - Marion 20 - Kidd 4
Beaubois 32 - Terry 16
Kidd 29 - Terry 19

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You didn't think Butler would out-perform Terry?

I certainly did - isn't that what Josh Howard was supposed to do?

I never thought Butler was going to do that.

LonghornDub · 11-24-2010, 11:15 PM

That trade was more about getting rid of Josh Howard than anything.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

This is what's going to happen:

Chandler/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Butler 24 - Marion 20 - Kidd 4
Beaubois 32 - Terry 16
Kidd 29 - Terry 19

There's no way Stevenson should not get minutes, plain and simple. He's shown enough on both sides of the court, Terry should get most of his minutes backing Kidd up with some minutes at the two...and 29 minutes is a pipe dream for Kidd

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Yeah...I think that trade was more about squeezing the last blood out of the turnip than it was about bringing in a Robin.

Definitely. Howard was sucking the life out of the team, and they managed to get 3 decent players for him. Haywood got overpaid in the offseason, but that's what happens with centers. He'll be a reasonable backup center. Stevenson is a nice role player who really should only be a spot player once the team gets everybody healthy. Butler is Jerry Stackhouse, Part Deux, with a big expiring contract that hopefully gets dealt by the deadline.

The most impactful trade this team has made in quite some time is the Chandler trade.

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

There's no way Stevenson should not get minutes, plain and simple

It's really true...I mean for goodness sakes if for nothing else you ride him until he quits hitting everything he throws up.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

There's no way Stevenson should not get minutes, plain and simple. He's shown enough on both sides of the court, Terry should get most of his minutes backing Kidd up with some minutes at the two...and 29 minutes is a pipe dream for Kidd

How many minutes do you want Stevenson to get?

I have Kidd getting 33 mpg.

Thomas86 · 11-24-2010, 11:21 PM

Big win for the Mavs...I'm glad the Spurs also won because I want the Mavs to end there streak.

Oh yea...Haywood = Diop

jthig32 · 11-24-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

This is what's going to happen:

Chandler/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Butler 24 - Marion 20 - Kidd 4
Beaubois 32 - Terry 16
Kidd 29 - Terry 19

I'd be willing to bet that Stevenson takes 10 minutes somewhere. Maybe half from Roddy, half from Jet.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's really true...I mean for goodness sakes if for nothing else you ride him until he quits hitting everything he throws up.

I was talking about what I thought Carlisle would do. If it were up to me, the rotation would look like this with everyone healthy:

Chandler 35 - Haywood 13
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Marion 24 - Butler 18 - Stevenson 6
Beaubois 32 - Terry 6 - Stevenson 10
Kidd 32 - Terry 16

Something like that.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

How many minutes do you want Stevenson to get?

I have Kidd getting 33 mpg.

Beaubois 28, Stevenson 10, Terry 10
Kidd 33, Terry 15

Like I said, Terry gets most of the minutes as the backup PG. You don't have to extend Stevenson far to be effective, just like he's shown.

I'd be cautious with Roddy first. He's coming back from injury and he's getting real and consistent minutes.

sike · 11-24-2010, 11:24 PM

Carlisle called this a "great win".

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Big win for the Mavs...I'm glad the Spurs also won because I want the Mavs to end there streak.

Oh yea...Haywood = Diop

screw those spurs...

Thomas86 · 11-24-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I was talking about what I thought Carlisle would do. If it were up to me, the rotation would look like this with everyone healthy:

Chandler 35 - Haywood 13
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Marion 24 - Butler 18 - Stevenson 6
Beaubois 32 - Terry 6 - Stevenson 10
Kidd 32 - Terry 16

Something like that.

I wish but as soon as Roddy does something wrong RC is gonna pull him.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Beaubois 28, Stevenson 10, Terry 10
Kidd 33, Terry 15

Like I said, Terry gets most of the minutes as the backup PG. You don't have to extend Stevenson far to be effective, just like he's shown.

I'd be cautious with Roddy first. He's coming back from injury and he's getting real and consistent minutes.

I think we're basically on the same page. Hopefully Carlisle agrees.

dude1394 · 11-24-2010, 11:30 PM

AS much as everyone thinks roddy is the saviour, he's going to have to show something off the bench before he's a starter...as it should be...

chumdawg · 11-24-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

This is what's going to happen:

Chandler/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Butler 24 - Marion 20 - Kidd 4
Beaubois 32 - Terry 16
Kidd 29 - Terry 19

If Beaubois is a guy who can play 32 minutes, on this roster, that would say something very, very good about him. I hope so, but I highly doubt it. That's just too many minutes to squeeze out of everyone else. (Unless, of course, he can handle the backup one...but I think that is still a couple years away at least.)

He doesn't need to play 32 to still impact the game in a large way, as Dirk seems to be pining for. He could do that in 20.

As for how I see it playing out, I think Carlisle will maintain a sort of platoon based on matchups. And I think that's not at all a bad thing.

fluid.forty.one · 11-24-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

76 points in the last 2 games...

in two days

The announcers were so bad that I just turned the stream off and listened to a radio stream of Bob and Mark. Much more enjoyable experience.

jthig32 · 11-24-2010, 11:32 PM

If Roddy does move to the starting lineup, Marion needs to move with him.

sefant77 · 11-24-2010, 11:33 PM

Roddy wont average 32.

24-28 is more realistic.

fluid.forty.one · 11-24-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If Roddy does move to the starting lineup, Marion needs to move with him.

God, I sure hope so. Rick better be able to see that Roddy/Marion and Terry(and especially Stevenson)/Caron are much better pairings than the other way around.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I think we're basically on the same page. Hopefully Carlisle agrees.

I can only go off of what he says and Carlisle loves what Stevenson does on and off the court. Carlisle on Stevenson, "He's very businesslike with how he approaches keeping himself ready to play." He values Stevenson's toughness over anything.

You could say, yeah well if that's the case: why didn't get really get minutes in the preseason and etc? Carlisle basically said he already knew what he could expect from Stevenson, so he wanted to see what he's getting from other players.

rabbitproof · 11-24-2010, 11:37 PM

Maybe not Robin but atleast on JET's level (especially as he has regressed the last few years though he's bounced back this year). He's been a quarter of the offensive threat that JET is.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If Roddy does move to the starting lineup, Marion needs to move with him.

I agree 100% but it's just a hunch...I really doubt it'd happen, I would be shocked. I think they'd keep Butler to preserve the all campers are happy approach. They already won Marion over with the move to the bench...I don't think Butler will be pleased if it's a long term move.

jthig32 · 11-24-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I agree 100% but it's just a hunch...I really doubt it'd happen, I would be shocked. I think they'd keep Butler to preserve the all campers are happy approach. They already won Marion over with the move to the bench...I don't think Butler will be pleased if it's a long term move.

Well then I want Stevenson to stay in the startling lineup. There's absolutely no reason to have Dirk, Roddy and Caron on the floor at the same time to start every game. Both Caron and Roddy need to dominate the ball in order to be effective offensively.

sefant77 · 11-24-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

God, I sure hope so. Rick better be able to see that Roddy/Marion and Terry(and especially Stevenson)/Caron are much better pairings than the other way around.

Kidd
Roddy (IF he can be that efficient ~15PPG scorer)
Marion
Dirk
Chandler

Terry/(some Barea)
Stevenson
Butler
whoever
Haywood

That should be really two solid well working units. And remember the excitement over the Wizard trade and not even a year later every of the three player would be on the bench because there are better starter options...

And yes, Roddy/Marion and Stevenson/Butler should be tag teams, either as starter or as bench player

rabbitproof · 11-24-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Roddy wont average 32.

24-28 is more realistic.

Yup. He's not going to rob 15 minutes from JET/Kidd so unless we want to go midget all day.. he'll take JJB's 18 and pad it with about 8-10 from JET/Kidd.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well then I want Stevenson to stay in the startling lineup. There's absolutely no reason to have Dirk, Roddy and Caron on the floor at the same time to start every game. Both Caron and Roddy need to dominate the ball in order to be effective offensively.

That would seem like the appropriate move then. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't bet on Butler moving to the bench.

It wouldn't even be that big of a change, because Stevenson is the "starter" but he doesn't play heavy minutes, he just sets the table. Any way you slice it, Barea is the odd man out.

chumdawg · 11-24-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well then I want Stevenson to stay in the startling lineup. There's absolutely no reason to have Dirk, Roddy and Caron on the floor at the same time to start every game. Both Caron and Roddy need to dominate the ball in order to be effective offensively.

This makes lots of sense. And, watching what Carlisle is doing with lineups this year, you would certainly expect him to have that sort of thing in mind. Maybe it's just me, but I've been very impressed with the way he has managed the rotations so far in this young season.

BGMaverick9 · 11-24-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This makes lots of sense. And, watching what Carlisle is doing with lineups this year, you would certainly expect him to have that sort of thing in mind. Maybe it's just me, but I've been very impressed with the way he has managed the rotations so far in this young season.

He's "learning" for sure. Butler (tough shots or not) was rolling in the first quarter but the matchups dictated that Marion needed to play and he did.

LonghornDub · 11-24-2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This makes lots of sense. And, watching what Carlisle is doing with lineups this year, you would certainly expect him to have that sort of thing in mind. Maybe it's just me, but I've been very impressed with the way he has managed the rotations so far in this young season.

I've been fairly happy with it as well. I do come around more and more each day to thig (and others') idea that Marion should start and Butler off the bench, though.