Lafrentz says "Bring somebody else in here to fill that spot" - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 07-21-2003, 08:07 AM

More clutter from a well known and long considered troll.

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 08:43 AM

A good percentage of people on this board have stated in the past month or so that they see Raef really improving and/or having a good year next year. While I'd like to believe that that will happen, based on everything I've seen Raef say and do, I just don't see it happening.

I don't think the guy has the heart to be a good player.

uberfan · 07-21-2003, 08:55 AM

It is up to the coach to find a way to get him involved and motivated. If Nellie has to pat him on the back everyday in the media to get this man's confidence back, then he better do it. It looks more and more like Raef is our Center this year again.

MavsFanFinley · 07-21-2003, 09:22 AM

Quote:

It is up to the coach to find a way to get him involved and motivated.

It's both the job of the coach and the player.

I'm not sure I'd get real excited about having to bang around and do all the dirty work on one end, then have to sit at the 3-point line and wait to shoot 3's on the other. All the while playing out of position.

uberfan · 07-21-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

Quote:

It is up to the coach to find a way to get him involved and motivated.

It's both the job of the coach and the player.

I'm not sure I'd get real excited about having to bang around and do all the dirty work on one end, then have to sit at the 3-point line and wait to shoot 3's on the other. All the while playing out of position.

If he is working out here in the gym as has been reported, he is making an effort to do something in the off-season. Hope he is doing a lot of work on his legs. However, the coach needs to see that he is working on things that will make him more effective in the coach's system, hence the "get him involved" comment.

grbh · 07-21-2003, 11:06 AM

I don't think his problems have anything to do with the physical. I believe Raef has no basketball IQ.

He can't get confident, always in foul trouble, and he just disappears from games for long stretches.

He doesn't need a trainer, he needs a shrink

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 11:33 AM

This is my opinion of Raef until he proves that I should feel otherwise:

Chiwas · 07-21-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

I don't think his problems have anything to do with the physical. I believe Raef has no basketball IQ.

He said so, he said he was slow for learning. And the system of Nellie is complicated. But he also has problems with fundamentals, I think.

MavKikiNYC · 07-21-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
This is my opinion of Raef until he proves that I should feel otherwise:

...the difference being that the kitten has better hands and superior leaping ability.

Or wait....was 'kitten' the operative concept here?

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

...the difference being that the kitten has better hands and superior leaping ability.

Or wait....was 'kitten' the operative concept here?

Do I have to spell everything out? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Okay. L-I-T-T-L-E *-*-*-*-*(censored for the sensitive reader).

Evilmav2 · 07-21-2003, 02:33 PM

I think Raef is going to be making a lot of his harsh detractors eat their words next year. The man was playing pretty darned well at the end of the season, and I think he is poised to have a breakout year in 03-04...

Raef's development last year was hampered by his early season injury, and was further impaired by his uncertain "doghouse" role in the rotation following his return. Compound these problems with the traditional slump that often plagues players in the first year after signing a big new contract, and I think we just got an inaccurate picture of the kind of impact that Raef can bring to this team...

Furthermore, our unfortunate inability to sign an impact big man this Summer may actually produce some unforseen benefits, as Nelson is forced to rely upon Raef for more rotation minutes, and hopefully the former Kansas star will respond with three pointers, rebounds, and a renewed sense of confidence...

Like it or not, a lot of our hopes for any internal improvement of this Mavs squad are predicated upon the continued development of Raef into the highly skilled, mobile, offensive weapon that he has been, and can become again...

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

I think Raef is going to be making a lot of his harsh detractors eat their words next year. The man was playing pretty darned well at the end of the season, and I think he is poised to have a breakout year in 03-04...

I'm not one of his harshest detractors, but I am one of his detractors. And I really hope you're right. I'd LOVE to say how wrong I was about Raef. I hope he shoves my words right back at me.

Quote:

Like it or not, a lot of our hopes for any internal improvement of this Mavs squad are predicated upon the continued development of Raef into the highly skilled, mobile, offensive weapon that he has been, and can become again...

Internal improvement is actually predicated upon Raef becoming a guy that can rebound and defend the post, not a better offensive weapon. That's why I'm not so optimistic. If it was just offense we were looking for, I'd have greater hope that he could have a comeback year. But when the guy doesn't even BELIEVE he can defend people or bang the boards, why should we expect him to actually do it?

Evilmav2 · 07-21-2003, 02:44 PM

"Internal improvement is actually predicated upon Raef becoming a guy that can rebound and defend the post"

Well, if Raef lets us down again, at least we still have good old #44 around to handle those kind of responsibilities...

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2
"Internal improvement is actually predicated upon Raef becoming a guy that can rebound and defend the post"

Well, if Raef lets us down again, at least we still have good old #44 around to handle those kind of responsibilities...

If Shawn could do those things on a consistent basis, the team wouldn't be looking so desperately for interior improvement.

one long blue sock · 07-21-2003, 05:29 PM

I dont think that Raef will have a break out season, because before this slump season he had, he has been consistent.

But last season he shot well, so i don't know if it was a slump.

mavsfanforever · 07-21-2003, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
A good percentage of people on this board have stated in the past month or so that they see Raef really improving and/or having a good year next year. While I'd like to believe that that will happen, based on everything I've seen Raef say and do, I just don't see it happening.

I don't think the guy has the heart to be a good player.

Kg_veteran, How many plays did you see where Nellie designed a play for Raef and he did not produce.

As far as I remember most of the plays that Raef did not produce were three pointers.

Raef is the best centre mavs have, but I think Nellie needs to design more plays for him than Finley if you need to see him improve.

mavsfanforever · 07-21-2003, 08:56 PM

Let me rephrase it:

Do you think Nellie is doing enough to make Raef more productive?

kg_veteran · 07-21-2003, 09:19 PM

Should Raef probably get more shots early in the game to get him going? Perhaps.

Should he be a bigger option in the offense? Maybe.

Should he be a bigger option than Finley? No way.

Do I agree with Nellie's handling of Raef completely? No. I think he should have disciplined him less publicly last year. But then again, Raef was playing like a dog for a good chunk of the season, so I'm sure Nellie was pretty frustrated with him.

Someone else has said this, but I wish the Mavs would get a tough-minded big man's coach. Dump Paul Mokeski (no offense, Paul, but what do you do, really?), and bring in a guy that can teach the big guys the tricks of the trade. Shawn probably won't listen, even to a guy like Moses Malone (he didn't listen to Kareem), but Raef might.

You've gotta try.

mavsfanforever · 07-21-2003, 09:29 PM

Should Raef probably get more shots early in the game to get him going? Perhaps.

<Should he be a bigger option in the offense? Maybe. >

Totally agree on that.

<Should he be a bigger option than Finley? No way.>

Why not? Raef is the only inside option for the mavs whereas Fin can share the backcourt with Nash and Nick.

<Do I agree with Nellie's handling of Raef completely? No. I think he should have disciplined him less publicly last year. But then again, Raef was playing like a dog for a good chunk of the season, so I'm sure Nellie was pretty frustrated with him. >

I am not sure how Nellie should have approached this but I should trust Nellie on this. Maybe Raef was not showing any heart to perform. But I do think a coach has a lot to do with motivation.

<Someone else has said this, but I wish the Mavs would get a tough-minded big man's coach. Dump Paul Mokeski (no offense, Paul, but what do you do, really?), and bring in a guy that can teach the big guys the tricks of the trade. Shawn probably won't listen, even to a guy like Moses Malone (he didn't listen to Kareem), but Raef might.>

Maybe.