dirk, fin, and nash's numbers..playoffs compared to regular season - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 10-13-2003, 05:19 PM

it is unfair to say he is an average player in the playoffs, a matter of fact I would say that he is anything but average... rather, it is fair to say that he is either hot hot or cold cold. When he shows up he shows up in a big way and with great numbers...and let's not forget the clutch shots...but when he does not show up, you'd think that he was just some guy out there...no, there is very little average about him at all ...what he needs is to find a steady consistancy, but that probably will never be found in NVE

sike · 10-13-2003, 05:21 PM

it is unfair to say he is an average player in the playoffs, a matter of fact I would say that he is anything but average... rather, it is fair to say that he is either hot hot or cold cold. When he shows up he shows up in a big way and with great numbers...and let's not forget the clutch shots...but when he does not show up, you'd think that he was just some guy out there...no, there is very little average about him at all ...what he needs is to find a steady consistancy, but that probably will never be found in NVE

Murphy3 · 10-13-2003, 05:25 PM

who said that he's an average player in the playoffs?
If anything, it's been said that NVE is NVE in both the playoffs and the regular season. He's a good player. But, to say that he steps up in the big games just isn't representative of what he's actually done in his career. He's been inconsistent in the both the big games and the not so big games. It's who NVE is. He's a good player, but let's not make him out to be something that he most definitely is not. Yes, last year he had a great playoff run. However, you can be assured that somewhere in the playoffs earlier in his career, he equaled that out with some sub standard performances for him.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

ok soo if nicks good games and bad games were dead even.. how well did you think nash played or fin and dirk?.... the first year he came into the playoffs he did not do well... how do you know jamison will do well? he never reached the playoffs before? i hope you are right though...

this makes little sense at best.
yes, fin and nash have struggled at times in the playoffs. But, at the least, they've performed better than NVE. There's no reason to even discuss Dirk

sure there is a reason to discuss Dirk. Dirk is a prime example of a superstar WHO DOES step it up in the playoffs.

van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses... he is not a superstar yet, but if he is.. then van exel is too because van exel had done as much as dirk did in this past years playoffs... IMO ... with that being said, they both played great in this years playoffs..

Murphy3 · 10-13-2003, 05:43 PM

you're not even worth talking to

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

hahaha[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] whats wrong murph? did i hit the dirk nerve? chill out, we're discussing and i stated my opinion... prove me wrong. Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers. I stated i EXPECT dirk to continue to improve and be a superstar in this league. Until he gets to that point i will be his worst critique because i expect much more, due to the fact that he has sooo much potential... please dont be hurt when i criticize dirky because i feel he can be soo much more...

LRB · 10-13-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

ok soo if nicks good games and bad games were dead even.. how well did you think nash played or fin and dirk?.... the first year he came into the playoffs he did not do well... how do you know jamison will do well? he never reached the playoffs before? i hope you are right though...

this makes little sense at best.
yes, fin and nash have struggled at times in the playoffs. But, at the least, they've performed better than NVE. There's no reason to even discuss Dirk

sure there is a reason to discuss Dirk. Dirk is a prime example of a superstar WHO DOES step it up in the playoffs.

van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses... he is not a superstar yet, but if he is.. then van exel is too because van exel had done as much as dirk did in this past years playoffs... IMO ... with that being said, they both played great in this years playoffs..

NVE has hit a lot of big shots. He's also missed about 60% of them as well. NVE can play as good as anyone in the league at times, and at others he's little more than a spare. I still think that he brings more good than bad, but he's not even close to Dirk in consistently putting in excellent playoff performances. Most star players' numbers drop in the playoffs because they are facing stiffer competition than in the regular season. Dirk is one of the rare few who can play at a superstar level in the regular season and still improve their stats in the post season. The one thing NVE is missing is consistency.

grndmstr_c · 10-13-2003, 05:53 PM

If Dirk's a superstar then Nick is too? Dude that's just flat out wrong. Dirk is a superstar because he's unarguably one of the top 10 players (IMO top 6) in the league. Nick isn't. Star, superstar, whatever. I defy you to find one coach, GM, media type, etc. who would even have to think for one second about which one of those two is the better player. Heck, the vast majority of observers feel AJ is better than Nick and still none of them would argue that AJ's on Dirk's level. The next step Dirk takes in his development will be to legit MVP candidate. Nick never has been, and never will be on that level. I know you like the guy, but you gotta stay on the level if you want to get anybody to see your side of things.

FreshJive · 10-13-2003, 05:54 PM

Nick vs SA all big games:

shooting: Game 1: 3-12, Game 2: 5-16, Game 3: 6-15, Game 4: 10-22, Game 5: 7-20, Game 6: 8-19

Assist/ TO: Game 1: 1ast/3TO, Game 2: 3ast/2TO, Game 3: 3ast/2TO, Game 4: 3ast/4TO, Game 5: 4ast/4TO, Game 6: 2ast/2TO

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Nick vs SA all big games:

shooting: Game 1: 3-12, Game 2: 5-16, Game 3: 6-15, Game 4: 10-22, Game 5: 7-20, Game 6: 8-19

Assist/ TO: Game 1: 1ast/3TO, Game 2: 3ast/2TO, Game 3: 3ast/2TO, Game 4: 3ast/4TO, Game 5: 4ast/4TO, Game 6: 2ast/2TO

he didnt do well in that series.. neither did anyone else but FIN...van exel stunk up that series..

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 05:59 PM

ok i got ur attention...

"van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses... he is not a superstar yet, but if he is.. then van exel is too because van exel had done as much as dirk did in this past years playoffs... IMO ... with that being said, they both played great in this years playoffs.. "

READ IT!.. i never said van exel is better than dirk...'van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses' read it... what i meant by this post is that you cant really call either of them superstar yet.. he hasnt done enough to be called a superstar in this league.. IMO. but i EXPECT that to change real soon..

FreshJive · 10-13-2003, 06:02 PM

So your arguing Nick is a big game player based on one series (Sac)? Efficiency is just not Nick's strong point, and that is important from your starting PG position.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
So your arguing Nick is a big game player based on one series (Sac)? Efficiency is just not Nick's strong point, and that is important from your starting PG position.

if you read my previous posts ull see what im basing it on. and yes any knowledgeable nba fan knows Nick is one of the biggest big time players in the league...

FreshJive · 10-13-2003, 06:26 PM

I'm sorry but, you lost the ability to call yourself a "knowledgeable" NBA fan when you said Dirk is not a superstar. Look at last year's playoff stats, game by game and tell me which player (Dirk vs Nick) was the Mavericks big game player. Dirk more than proved himself as a legit superstar.

LRB · 10-13-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
I'm sorry but, you lost the ability to call yourself a "knowledgeable" NBA fan when you said Dirk is not a superstar. Look at last year's playoff stats, game by game and tell me which player (Dirk vs Nick) was the Mavericks big game player. Dirk more than proved himself as a legit superstar.

Amen!!!
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

sike · 10-13-2003, 06:41 PM

lets be really honest.....there is no part of NVE's game that is top five among point guard on a consistant basis.....scoring is what he does best, and even that is inconsistent..remember the nights when you would say "wheres nick?...he's good, but overrated because of his few wonderful nights in a Mavs uni....he's just a good player (who used to be even better) who happed to be great for a few games....the question is: does a few great games a year a great player make....the answer: no, the great ones are consistantly great night in and night out...like 25.1ppg and 9.9reb...thats great!

one long blue sock · 10-13-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 06:49 PM

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

grndmstr_c · 10-13-2003, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

LMAO! Well said and funny.

LRB · 10-13-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

Damn!!!! And we just let him go!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

Umm no. According to my logic, I am not speaking of shots made in general. I am speaking of shots in crucial moments of the game. Shots with 5 seconds or less on the clock. 4th qtr performances. Big games. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:01 PM

I hope you guys are right ![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

one long blue sock · 10-13-2003, 07:04 PM

Well I don't think it really matters if Van Exel can make 2 points in the last 3 seconds of the game, when Dirk has 15 points in the last 12 minutes. Because OBVIOUSLY without those 15 points, the Mavs would not have been able to win the game with a measley 2 points.

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
Well I don't think it really matters if Van Exel can make 2 points in the last 3 seconds of the game, when Dirk has 15 points in the last 12 minutes. Because OBVIOUSLY without those 15 points, the Mavs would not have been able to win the game with a measley 2 points.

exactly what happened in the 4th qtr of the portland series to name one game.. where van exel scored or assisted in the first 8 of 9 baskets.! then dirk finished it off... kind of like that right?

LRB · 10-13-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

Umm no. According to my logic, I am not speaking of shots made in general. I am speaking of shots in crucial moments of the game. Shots with 5 seconds or less on the clock. 4th qtr performances. Big games. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Yeah then Steve Kerr and John Paxton have hit more big games shots that NVE. And Raja Bell has hit more game winners in the final seconds than Anthony and James put together. Oh and don't forget Calvin Booth.

one long blue sock · 10-13-2003, 07:12 PM

Dirty, Yeah, Exactley..EXCEPT that your example is singular, while mine is plural...Dirk did it all season, not just 1, or maybe 2 games.

LRB · 10-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Of course until you hit a shot in the final seconds to win the final game in the NBA Finals you really can't talk too much about hitting big game shots. Kerr did it and Paxton did it. But I'd take NVE over either of those two in their primes. Of course there really no sense in discussing MJ who did it as well. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

one long blue sock · 10-13-2003, 07:24 PM

MJ???

who are you talking about, Marko Jaric?

LRB · 10-13-2003, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
MJ???

who are you talking about, Marko Jaric?

LOL. No just some old hasbeen you used to wear #23. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:41 PM

Basically all i am trying to say is van exel doesnt get the respect he deserves. He finally did in the playoffs somewhat. But now since hes not a mav anymore most of you wanted to follow the choo chooo train that seems to be going on around here and put nve down or compare him to stever or this and that.... oh well [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
MJ???

who are you talking about, Marko Jaric?

LOL. No just some old hasbeen you used to wear #23. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] the greatest player of all time...

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
you're not even worth talking to

Van exel has hit more game winners..clutch shots.. than dirk has AT THIS POINT of their careers...

Well Adam Harrington has hit more shots then Carmelo Anthony, and James put together.

I see your logic

Umm no. According to my logic, I am not speaking of shots made in general. I am speaking of shots in crucial moments of the game. Shots with 5 seconds or less on the clock. 4th qtr performances. Big games. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Yeah then Steve Kerr and John Paxton have hit more big games shots that NVE. And Raja Bell has hit more game winners in the final seconds than Anthony and James put together. Oh and don't forget Calvin Booth.

hahahhaa [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] you guys are funny

LRB · 10-13-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty
Basically all i am trying to say is van exel doesnt get the respect he deserves. He finally did in the playoffs somewhat. But now since hes not a mav anymore most of you wanted to follow the choo chooo train that seems to be going on around here and put nve down or compare him to stever or this and that.... oh well [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

Atcually I think that NVE gets more respect now than he did during the regular season last year. The things being said about Nick are only waterdowned version of what was said last season. I think that a lot of posters increased their respect of Nick with his playoff performance and the attitude he helped install in the team. But Nick still has faults and those faults were magnified at times by the teams lack of talent at the 3 spot last year. That wasn't Nick's fault, but he was the trade bait that helped solve it.

one long blue sock · 10-13-2003, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DrtyFlthyNasty
Basically all i am trying to say is van exel doesnt get the respect he deserves. He finally did in the playoffs somewhat. But now since hes not a mav anymore most of you wanted to follow the choo chooo train that seems to be going on around here and put nve down or compare him to stever or this and that.... oh well [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

Well Van Exel is a great player.

But the trade was soooooo much better, not JUST with Jamison. But other factors.

Murphy3 · 10-13-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses... he is not a superstar yet, but if he is.. then van exel is too because van exel had done as much as dirk did in this past years playoffs... IMO ... with that being said, they both played great in this years playoffs..

this is something you'll live with for the rest of your time here on the board. I will make sure of that. You will never live this statement down. I really find it difficult to believe that anyone could actually believe what you said. Personally, I have pity for you.

LRB · 10-13-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

van exels been in the league longer than dirk has and has hit many more big shots in his career than dirk has. however i expect that to change considering the potential dirk possesses... he is not a superstar yet, but if he is.. then van exel is too because van exel had done as much as dirk did in this past years playoffs... IMO ... with that being said, they both played great in this years playoffs..

this is something you'll live with for the rest of your time here on the board. I will make sure of that. You will never live this statement down. I really find it difficult to believe that anyone could actually believe what you said. Personally, I have pity for you.

LOL. Sick'em Murph. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Lvubun1 · 10-13-2003, 09:01 PM

That is pretty much my problem. I agree with what most people are saying, I do think the media might be overplaying him a little. But what I don't like is how during the playoffs everybody was on his(for a lack of a better word) nuts and when he got traded everybody turned on him like he raped your mother. I have no problems with Murph, Bayliss and the rest of those guys because they hated Nick before the playoffs, during the playoffs and after the playoffs. But alot of the people who are getting on the new guy and Nick in general were the same ones who were in love with him just a couple months ago. LRB you were one of the main ones arguing with Murphy that Nick was the playoff MVP and NOT Dirk.

Bottom line is for all the people who did a '180 their are two reasons. #1 You didn't feel NVE was the playoff MVP at the time but since everyone else was saying it, it sounded cool and you jumped on the bangwagon. #2 You did feel NVE was the playoff MVP but after he was traded everybody dumped on him and said that he wasn't, it sounded cool so you jumped on the bandwagon.

Fidel · 10-13-2003, 09:03 PM

Phew I´m glad I didn´t change my mind about Nick [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].

Never liked him never will.

Lvubun1 · 10-13-2003, 09:14 PM

DrtyFlthyNasty · 10-13-2003, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
Bottom line is for all the people who did a '180 their are two reasons. #1 You didn't feel NVE was the playoff MVP at the time but since everyone else was saying it, it sounded cool and you jumped on the bangwagon. #2 You did feel NVE was the playoff MVP but after he was traded everybody dumped on him and said that he wasn't, it sounded cool so you jumped on the bandwagon.

exactly