Bulls Trade

[kg_veteran]

Stein may know something we don't, but I wouldn't count on Jamison being dealt. I think he's a Maverick for a while.

My biggest question so far is, would the Bulls really give up Chandler for Walker? If they would, the Mavs have to make it happen.

[madape]

That's complete horseshit. You are excited about the possibility of this trade simply BECAUSE you'd rather have what Jamison can fetch you than to actually have Jamison. Do you think the Bobcats would rather have Chandler or Curry than Jamison? Hell yes they would. Would we even be talking about this trade if so many Dallas fans wouldn't rather have Pavel Podkolzine or Ivan Chirirev than Jamison. Well, the same options that have you so excited about trading away Jamison are availble to the Bobcat's too.

But that doesn't even matter. Dallas is in a completely different position than Charlotte. Our window of opportunity is now. The Bobcat's won't be competing for a championsip until at least 2008... They need to build their team with that in mind. Trading away future cap flexibilty and a solid-gold level rookie is the total antithesis of that strategy. Doing this trade practically ENSURES them that they won't be in the hunt for a playoff birth this decade.

Just as a reminder, the #4 pick is supposed to be reserved for a franchise level player. If a guy picked there doesn't develop into a true stud NBA player, he is widely considered a bust. For example, many would consider Jamison to be a huge disappointment relative to where he was taken in the draft. The odds of the Bobcats drafting a player considerably better than Jamison are very good.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Stein may know something we don't, but I wouldn't count on Jamison being dealt. I think he's a Maverick for a while.

My biggest question so far is, would the Bulls really give up Chandler for Walker? If they would, the Mavs have to make it happen.

I agree with this. If they can do a straight Walker/Delk for Chandler/AD, then do it. AD would at least provide some toughness, and Chandler might develop into the defensive big man they need.

I personally would like to keep Jamison. I think he compliments Dirk well. With that said, we have too many forwards, and if Charlotte were to offer the #4, then yes I would trade him.....if Jamison wanted to go there. I think the odds are low of this happening, but I have seen strager things.

[kg_veteran]

I'd rather keep Jamison. I like the idea of splitting the forward minutes next year between Dirk, Jamison, and Howard, giving the backcourt minutes to Nash, Finley, and Daniels, and playing 2-3 dirty work guys in the middle.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'd rather keep Jamison. I like the idea of splitting the forward minutes next year between Dirk, Jamison, and Howard, giving the backcourt minutes to Nash, Finley, and Daniels, and playing 2-3 dirty work guys in the middle.

Couldn't. Agree. More.

[Evilmav2]

I AM convinced that if the Bobcats made the mistake of trading away everything their franchise has going for it for Jamison, that they would be terrible for a very long time. It's not a move that any compitent GM would ever make.

Isn't this the guy who once traded away Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond, signed Juwan Howard to a $102 million contract, and traded Rasheed Wallace away for Rod Strickland and Harvey Grant?

With Bernie Bickerstaff at the helm of these Bobcats, I won't be surprised to see some very, very dumb moves made by Charlotte over the next couple of years.

That said, even for Bernie, trading the #4 away for Jamison would be pretty stupid move salary cap wise...

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Will we be swapping the #4 for a higher or lower pick? Why would we do that if it were lower?

We might need to sweeten the deal a little. Walker for Chandler is not a very good trade for Chicago.

[aggiecurt05]

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
"Chandler may be dangled in trade talks with the Bulls' top pick -- which could be No. 1 overall -- along with a big contract, perhaps that of Antonio Davis, to acquire an All-Star-caliber player. Names that have been thrown around include ... Antoine Walker "

If Chicago is hoping to do something like this, I hope we oblige them. I would gladly take Davis contract off their hands, and also give them the Walker they desire, if they are willing to add Chandler and their #1. Done deal.

Is there any way that the Bulls would send the number 1 overall (Okafor), Chandler, and Davis for just walker and change? That doesn't even seem like a remote possibility if anyone on the bulls has a brain. Maybe we underappreciate Walker (which I think is true to a degree), or overappreciate Okafor and Chandler, or underappreciate cap freedom (which has never effected the mavs ability to get who they want (although other factors have). Surely this would require a combo of Walker and Jamison or Finley or one of our rookies. Am I wrong about this?

[madape]

(which has never effected the mavs ability to get who they want (although other factors have).

This is a completely ridiculous statement. If Cuban had total flexibility, we'd have one or more of the following on the team:

Rashard Lewis
Michael Redd
Calvin Booth
Brad Miller
Michael Olowakandi
Alonzo Mourning

among probably dozens of others

[Poindexter Einstein]

JUST SOME THOUGHTS ON THE VARIOUS ASPECTS HERE...

If current record holds out, CHI will have the #2 choice.

Chandler is to them a failed bit, perhaps - Paxson has said repeatedly, if a team is that bad there is no such thing as an untouchable player in a trade. There are continuous rumblings that they are indeed ready to blow some things up off that team.

To them, ADavis is one they would give away in a flash, cause of contract issues. In fact, they would give you something valuable to some level if you PLEEEEEEEEEASE would take him (and his contract) off their hands. Walker (with an expiring contract) is just what they are looking for, and the fact that he also is a pretty good player makes it even better from their point of view.

How highly do they value Walker's ability? Would they include that pick for what they might see as an all-star caliber forward? Who knows - but after they have been absolutely horrendous trying to develop high draft picks, they might be very desirous to take the known over the unknown this time.

It is informative to note that this trade idea originates in CHI where they are looking for a way to improve the Bulls not the Mavs. Remember when the Mavs and their 3 Js got blown up? There were some wild unexpected trades that happened in that process. The same could happen with the Bulls.

[MightyToine]

How highly do they value Walker's ability? Would they include that pick for what they might see as an all-star caliber forward? Who knows - but after they have been absolutely horrendous trying to develop high draft picks, they might be very desirous to take the known over the unknown this time.

I couldn't agree more with THAT assessment. Taking an expiring contract to get rid of a terrible one is a great deal......The fact that the contract belongs to a 3-time allstar makes it even BETTER.....


We are in for a very interesting offseason......BUT FIRST LET'S SEE IF TOINE CAN "convince" THE BULLS BRASS THAT HE IS WORTH TRADING FOR....

[MavsFanFinley]

Sam Smith's take

So here's deal No. 1: Jamison and Eduardo Najera for Tyson Chandler and Antonio Davis. The Mavs add a young, defensive-oriented big man, plus Davis, who doesn't need shots and who has two fewer years on his contract than Jamison, which gives them flexibility for the future. The Bulls get a big-time scorer in Jamison (back-to-back 50-point games once) who can finish games, along with a hustle role player thrown in, though that's negotiable if the Mavs want to insert someone else.

[kg_veteran]

I'd do Smith's deal, but only if I knew there was another deal cooking to send Walker packing.

[grndmstr_c]

Not really interested in that, if only because it was Sam Smith's idea and I hate the SOB. Beyond that, though, AD would simply be an overpriced backup 4, and Chandler is still more potential with injury problems than he is results. I don't think you give up a legit SF with a terrific attitude who seems to fit very nicely on court with your franchise player for that, especially when Walker's the one who needs to go.

[OutletPass]

I haven't read the entire thread...BUT...

It does seem like the Bulls have to give up a young big man. And it seems like aa high draft pick won't do them much good either. They have 2 or 3 bad contracts...Antonio Davis, JYD, and Eddie Robinson.

To get Chandler, their #1 pick and swallow a bad contract in AD/JYD...

Do you trade Walker ? Sure you do.

But how about Jamison ?

Or Fin ?

[grndmstr_c]

They throw in their #1 and I start considering Fin or AJ. Here's one. Let's say they want Fin and Eddie for Chanler, AD, and a #1. Do you think it would be worth seeing if Miami would have any interest in a Walker for Eddie Jones swap?

[ddh33]

There are a lot of deals I MIGHT make. I would certainly listen to any and every offer. After all, listening doesn't hurt a thing.

As far as my preferences go, if I'm runnning this team:

Walker has to be the first to go. I think the experiment has proven that it has failed. I think a change is needed for both player and team. He's the move to make. He doesn't need to come back next year.
Jamison is available, but it has to be the right deal. I might deal him for a pick, but I need to know what will be there when it's my turn. But Jamison is not the problem on this team. Having said that, he may not be the solution either. Like I said, he's gettable, I just need something good for him.
Finley might be available, but you better come with it. With all the changes this franchise has made recently, I think it is more important now than ever to keep the Big Three together. I know most people think he HAS to be moved eventually. That may be true. I just don't think this summer is the time to do it. Keep a little stability for the time being. It's needed...
Nash needs to be resigned...
Dirk stays and is built around - the way it always should have been...

So, essentially, what I am saying is that Walker has to go. Jamison may go. The Big Three need to stay. There are a host of role players that I would deal with very little hesitation.

But this franchise needs to make a serious decision as to which way to go, and then do it...I'm just giving a very brief idea of the way I would do it.

[OutletPass]

Posing the same question in a different way....and all of this assumes that we can't sign TAG for the MLE.....................

Let's say that Walker goes to GS straight up for a newly signed Dampier...and an injured NVE..

Do you then send Jamison and filler to Chicago for Chandler, Davis and their #1 pick. (okafor).
Do you then send Finley and filler to Chicago for Chandler, Davis and their #1 pick. (okafor)

Let's try another idea...

Do you trade Walker and filler to the Bulls for ...Their #2 pick (Okafor), Antonio Davis and JYD ?
Chicago would go for that one in a nanosecond, I think.

As each day passes, it looks like Chicago, Orlando, GS and Washington are the most likely trade partners. They're the teams that are most likely to "blow up".

[grndmstr_c]

If we could get Damp and NVE for Walker, I'd feel pretty damn comfortable with the resulting team and in no hurry whatsoever to make any more deals. That said, the #2 pick in the draft and Chandler would be a tempting package. Frontcourt depth would be obscene (Damp, Bradley, AD, Chandler, Dirk, Okafor all competing for minutes at two positions, and that's not even counting Fortson and AJ if he stayed - you'd have to figure AD would go straight to the IL), but even if Finley were the bait I'd still feel reasonably comfortable with Steve, NVE, Daniels, and JHo at the guard spots. Another guard would probably be easy to get with the MLE, too.

As for your Walker for the pick, AD, and JYD, I'd do that, too if it were the best available deal heading into training camp (I'd prefer the Mavs get something done before the players are due to report).

[dalmations202]

IMO:
Here are the needs.
1) Defensive, Athletic, Shot Blocking, Big Man --- Chandler, Bosh, Dalembert, Rasheed, Big Ben, KGarnet, TD,
2) Backup PG -- that can shoot the 3 at a high percentage, and push the ball
3) Big Banging Center to Bang with Shaq, Yao, etc

(Guys going nowhere are Big 3, Bradley, Howard, Daniels, Najera)

Here is Mavs assetts
1) Walker - experiment failed, he needs a new start, and so do the Mavs
2) Jamison - only let him go, if it fills one of the top 2 needs, or gets you a excellent draft pick for a development BIG: I would prefer to keep him.
3) MLE - hopefully used to resign Daniels, and sign TAG which
4) Filler - Delk, Fortson, Best, TAW, Steppheson, expect Williams to retire.

Use the MLE on TAG and Daniels ASAP.... If this can't happen, you may need to reconsider who you go after.
Resign NASH after the expansion draft, but make it clear to him that it is going to happen.
Use Walker to get the #1 and/or #2 NEEDS. If it is for Chandler/AD fine. If it is for Dampier/NVE fine, but Damp is a banger, and you still need a quicker athletic shotblocker. If you get the ability to get Okafor, and want to put him in that position, then fine. Then only use Jamison, if you can't get the #1 and #2 needs with Walker and Filler, or if you are offered a top 5 draft pick for him.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: OutletPass
Posing the same question in a different way....and all of this assumes that we can't sign TAG for the MLE.....................

Let's say that Walker goes to GS straight up for a newly signed Dampier...and an injured NVE..

Remind me why Golden State does this.

Do you then send Jamison and filler to Chicago for Chandler, Davis and their #1 pick. (okafor).
Do you then send Finley and filler to Chicago for Chandler, Davis and their #1 pick. (okafor)

I would be floored if Chicago was willing to give up Chandler and a No. 1 for Jamison or Finley, even if they got to dump AD's salary.

I think perhaps we're all overvaluing our players. That's why I asked a few posts up if we could really get Chandler and Davis for Walker. I think with Chandler's back problems and Davis' age and contract, it's possible, but when you start talking about a No. 1 draft pick that's going to be no lower than 4, I just think you enter a different arena.

Also, let's be clear about this. The Bulls aren't going to deal the pick if it's top 3 unless they're getting a better player than Walker, Jamison, or Finley. IMHO, anyway.

As each day passes, it looks like Chicago, Orlando, GS and Washington are the most likely trade partners. They're the teams that are most likely to "blow up".

Agree completely with this.

[dalmations202]

Walker/Delk for Chandler/ADavis works and is probably the best bet for all parties involved. No draft picks changing hands. It is the one that I think might benefit both teams, and works from a salary standpoint. If Chicago would throw in a draft pick, even a second rounder, then I would think that the Mavs did a great job.

If Walker + filler is dealt to GS for NVE/Damp ( I have no idea why GS would do this), then IMO the Mavs would have to know if they could sign TAG to the MLE before they made a decision as to whether they would make a trade with Chicago. If the Mavs could sign TAG, they don't need to take a chance on Chandler's back, and add another long contract in AD: at least not without a 1st round pick or something making it more enticing.

I think it all depends on the first move, and whether you can sign TAG for the MLE.

[dalmations202]

Another thought:

If you can make the Walker/Delk for AD/Chandler trade with Chicago?

Would you consider trying to sign Karl Malone for the MLE, and then try and trade Jamison for Brent Barry.
Seattle would have to do a sign and trade at basically the same money he is currently making:

Dallas trades: SF Antawn Jamison (14.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Brent Barry (10.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 30.7 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.8 ppg, +1.3 rpg, and +5.2 apg.

Seattle trades: SG Brent Barry (10.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 30.7 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.2 minutes)
Seattle receives: SF Antawn Jamison (14.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.8 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and -5.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Sonics - Murray, Allen, Lewis, Jamison, James - not too bad a lineup, and a much better inside/out game.

Dallas Lineup:
Nash, Barry
Finley, Daniels
Nowitzki, Howard
Malone, ADavis, Najera
Chandler, Bradley, Booth, Fortson

Booth, Fortson, Najera - fighting to stay off the IR with TAW and Stephesson.

[kg_veteran]

I don't want to move Dirk to small forward.

We don't need any power forwards. We need guys who can play the center spot and possibly a veteran backup PG.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I don't want to move Dirk to small forward.

We don't need any power forwards. We need guys who can play the center spot and possibly a veteran backup PG.

If you take the Malone part of it out, would you make the Seattle trade happen, provided the Chicago trade happens?

Lineup:
Nash, Barry
Finley, Daniels
Howard, Najera
Nowitzki, ADavis, Fortson
Chandler, Bradley, Booth

[kg_veteran]

Probably not.

I like Barry, but if we acquire a backup PG, I'd like it to be a guy who can guard smaller, quicker guards.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Probably not.

I like Barry, but if we acquire a backup PG, I'd like it to be a guy who can guard smaller, quicker guards.

Who would you get as the backup PG? I would like a quicker/defender as well, but really think we need a shooter also.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Who would you get as the backup PG? I would like a quicker/defender as well, but really think we need a shooter also.

That depends on what the Mavs can afford.

I'd love to have a guy in the mold of Darrell Armstrong.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

That depends on what the Mavs can afford.

I'd love to have a guy in the mold of Darrell Armstrong.

Would you make this trade to get him? If the Chicago trade happens (Walker/Delk - Chandler/AD) and you can sign TAG, Daniels, Nash

New Orleans trades: SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 38.4 minutes)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 27.9 minutes)
New Orleans receives: SF Antawn Jamison (14.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -16.8 ppg, -2.6 rpg, and -5.2 apg.

Dallas trades: SF Antawn Jamison (14.4 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 19 games)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: +16.8 ppg, +2.6 rpg, and +5.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


I can only see this happening because NO wants to move Mashburn out.

[Male30Dan]

Do they want to move him out to the point of getting screwed though???

Giving up an All-Star SF with some great basketball still left in his tank, along with a clutch, great defending veteran PG for Jamison??? A guy that, while he can get you 20 and 8 on most nights, cant play a lick of defense???

I guess if they really want Mashburn out they do it, seeing as how he HAS been injury prone, but man, Dallas would win hands down on that trade, (assuming he stays healthy)...

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Do they want to move him out to the point of getting screwed though???

Giving up an All-Star SF with some great basketball still left in his tank, along with a clutch, great defending veteran PG for Jamison??? A guy that, while he can get you 20 and 8 on most nights, cant play a lick of defense???

I guess if they really want Mashburn out they do it, seeing as how he HAS been injury prone, but man, Dallas would win hands down on that trade, (assuming he stays healthy)...

I have no idea if NO would do this or not. I just read that Baron and Mash are not meshing at all. I don't think Mash works in Big D, so I think the Mavs would be looking to move him thereafter as well. Mash isn't known for his D either, and I don't see a huge difference in his and Jamison's game.

I think Dallas might do it for Armstrong. I think NO might do it to get something for moving Mash out.

[Male30Dan]

I mean I can see that Dallas would want to do this, and that NO might want to do this if they are trying to move Mash out AND get younger/healthier, but I agree with you on Mash not being right for Dallas... Regarding their games being pretty much the same, I dont think anyones game is like Jamison... Mashburn relies on his shot much more than Jamison does... Jamison has the better inside game but Mashburn has the better overall offensive game... While I agree that Mashburn isnt known for his D, I will say that I have witnessed both first hand, and I have truly not seen many worse than Jamison...

It kinda sucks that Baron and Mashburn arent meshing... I have always liked the Hornets dating back to GraMaMa, Augmon, and Mourning...

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
I mean I can see that Dallas would want to do this, and that NO might want to do this if they are trying to move Mash out AND get younger/healthier, but I agree with you on Mash not being right for Dallas... Regarding their games being pretty much the same, I dont think anyones game is like Jamison... Mashburn relies on his shot much more than Jamison does... Jamison has the better inside game but Mashburn has the better overall offensive game... While I agree that Mashburn isnt known for his D, I will say that I have witnessed both first hand, and I have truly not seen many worse than Jamison...

It kinda sucks that Baron and Mashburn arent meshing... I have always liked the Hornets dating back to GraMaMa, Augmon, and Mourning...

I like NO myself. I also agree that Jamison would have to work just to get to average on defense. His offensive game is very good though, and a great compliment to Nowitzki, IMO. The problem is that he has always been a #1 offensive option, and has had others pick him up on defense, much like Nowitzki has. Now he is on a team that needs him to D it up because it has other offensive options. I like Jamison/Nowitzki as as set, but I also know that Dallas needs everyone else to be lockdown when these two are together, because neither of them has defense as their major strength.

Mash would want to come in and be the #1 option here, and that wouldn' t work. He is another volume scorer and I actually think he might cause more problems than he would fix - much like Walker (good talents, but no fit).

IMO, Dallas should still consider doing the trade though, for Armstrong. Then try to move Mash.

[Male30Dan]

Why not just leave a guy that is a better fit, (Jamison), here and trade for Armstrong?

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Why not just leave a guy that is a better fit, (Jamison), here and trade for Armstrong?

What/Who do you trade to get him?

[Male30Dan]

Delk works straight up, but Im not sure NO does that... Best and Delk works for Smith and Armstrong...

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Delk works straight up, but Im not sure NO does that... Best and Delk works for Smith and Armstrong...

Ok, I had forgot about Delk, because my assumption was that he was going with Walker to Chicago for Chandler and AD.

[Male30Dan]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

If I had to choose which place to put him, I would definately put Delk with Walker to get Chandler and AD; HOWEVER:

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.6 apg in 35.3 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 13.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Antonio Davis (9.1 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.1 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.3 ppg, +4.6 rpg, and -2.7 apg.

Chicago trades: PF Antonio Davis (9.1 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.1 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.6 apg in 73 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 49 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.3 ppg, -4.6 rpg, and +2.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Lets just throw Najera in there and get both deals done!

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

If I had to choose which place to put him, I would definately put Delk with Walker to get Chandler and AD; HOWEVER:

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.6 apg in 35.3 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 13.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Antonio Davis (9.1 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.1 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.3 ppg, +4.6 rpg, and -2.7 apg.

Chicago trades: PF Antonio Davis (9.1 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.1 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.6 apg in 73 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 49 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.3 ppg, -4.6 rpg, and +2.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Lets just throw Najera in there and get both deals done!

I think Najera is a core player that Cuban won't move, but.....

Lineup of:
Chandler, Bradley, TAG, Fortson
Nowitzki, AD
Jamison, Howard
Finley, Daniels
Nash, Armstrong

That looks pretty sweet.

Not sure why NO would trade Delk for Armstrong straightup, but I like where the lineup is going, and it looks much stronger now.

[Male30Dan]

If Howard stays, (of course he will), I NEVER see Jamison starting for us... I would also swap Fortson and AD in your depth chart... Other than that, this lineup is BEAUTIFUL... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]