Things to hate about Kidd - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:52 PM

I'm not sure I'm going to be alive in 10 years. I should spend all my savings now on cosmetics.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:54 PM

hilarious

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:55 PM

Quote:

I would trade a guy now that hasn't proven anything for a top 5 all-time point guard very close to his prime any day of the week.

I'm glad you have a different opinion. I just see things as more complex. Bradley is dirt cheap and capable, Howard has a lot of potential and is getting paid less than the LLE, NJ may be desperate and Kidd may not be healthy. Complex.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:58 PM

I see 2 finals apperances for kidd...with a less talented supporting cast than dallas has. how many finals has this team been to with those guys that you mentioned?

Simon2 · 07-30-2004, 06:08 PM

You do have to admit that those were in the East. Its like saying Walker is an all-star. but in the East.. East was crappy during the years Kidd went to the finals.

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
I see 2 finals apperances for kidd...with a less talented supporting cast than dallas has. how many finals has this team been to with those guys that you mentioned?

Chiwas · 07-30-2004, 07:17 PM

C'mon, if we couldn't -or didn't want to- hold Nash, imagine Kidd. It won't happen. Stop the hallucinations.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2
You do have to admit that those were in the East. Its like saying Walker is an all-star. but in the East.. East was crappy during the years Kidd went to the finals.

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
I see 2 finals apperances for kidd...with a less talented supporting cast than dallas has. how many finals has this team been to with those guys that you mentioned?

that argument is horseshit...this is the NBA, you know. the highest level of competition in the world. it's not like they had a cakewalk to get to the NBA finals...remember, these guys beat Detroit to get there last year (albeit without Rasheed). it's still an unbeliveable achievement for ANYONE to lead their team to a championship series.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
C'mon, if we couldn't -or didn't want to- hold Nash, imagine Kidd. It won't happen. Stop the hallucinations.

or maybe cuban and nelson were being tactical this whole time with the Jamison move, and not moving Walker yet?

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
C'mon, if we couldn't -or didn't want to- hold Nash, imagine Kidd. It won't happen. Stop the hallucinations.

Please exercize your brain. The reason the Kidd deal would be great is that we could dump an assload of expiring contracts a year early and in return we'd the best point guard in the league and possibly Alonzo Mourning, who will be a factor for this team if he's able to play.

freestyle · 07-30-2004, 10:18 PM

ExerciSe your brain, Pooh. I'm with Erica. I would think seriously before spending our young talent for a second-rate personality on the downside of his career coming off an injury with a long-term monolithic contract. Yeah, it's like that....

If we can pawn Walker + some spares off on NJ, then fine. Otherwise, the guy is an insult to my intelligence off the court and is not a nice guy. Even IF we won the championship (and that is a big IF), I might have to listen to an extended JKidd interview after the game.... Enough said.

Chiwas · 07-30-2004, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
C'mon, if we couldn't -or didn't want to- hold Nash, imagine Kidd. It won't happen. Stop the hallucinations.

or maybe cuban and nelson were being tactical this whole time with the Jamison move, and not moving Walker yet?

Didn't all think that it was for making the bride prettier to the eyes of the Lakers in our chase of the Diesel? Now is it for Kidd? Tomorrow it is going to be Horry.

Quote:

exercize your brain

I promise I'm trying, but it's hard....here. Anyway, good advice.

Windmill360 · 07-31-2004, 12:08 AM

Here is my question... If we wanted to get Kidd why would we have to trade Antoine Walker and extra?? The Nets have already traded a few of their players for practically nothing. Correct me if I am wrong; Kidd is making 14,796,000 in 2004/2005 and Antoine is making 14,625,000. I think a straight up trade would work unless the Mavericks want Zo too.

Simon2 · 07-31-2004, 01:26 AM

Because you don't want to pay 30,000. Well, 60,000 if the tax kicks in. Plus the Mavs need to unload players

Quote:

Originally posted by: Windmill360°
Here is my question... If we wanted to get Kidd why would we have to trade Antoine Walker and extra?? The Nets have already traded a few of their players for practically nothing. Correct me if I am wrong; Kidd is making 14,796,000 in 2004/2005 and Antoine is making 14,625,000. I think a straight up trade would work unless the Mavericks want Zo too.

V2M · 07-31-2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Windmill360°
Here is my question... If we wanted to get Kidd why would we have to trade Antoine Walker and extra?? The Nets have already traded a few of their players for practically nothing. Correct me if I am wrong; Kidd is making 14,796,000 in 2004/2005 and Antoine is making 14,625,000. I think a straight up trade would work unless the Mavericks want Zo too.

I agree. If Nets can trade K-Mart & Kittles for practically nothing, I think Walk for Kidd should be enough to appease those penny-pinching owners. May be throw in a 2nd rounder if they insist.

endtroducing · 07-31-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
C'mon, if we couldn't -or didn't want to- hold Nash, imagine Kidd. It won't happen. Stop the hallucinations.

or maybe cuban and nelson were being tactical this whole time with the Jamison move, and not moving Walker yet?

Didn't all think that it was for making the bride prettier to the eyes of the Lakers in our chase of the Diesel? Now is it for Kidd? Tomorrow it is going to be Horry.

Quote:

exercize your brain

I promise I'm trying, but it's hard....here. Anyway, good advice.

anyone who thought we had a serious shot at shaq was pretty crazy. considering the fact that it was almost universally known that NJ was cutting salary MAJORLY this off-season, and that the Shaq trade pretty much came from absolutely nowhere, it's very feasible that they had Kidd in mind the whole time.

endtroducing · 07-31-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: freestyle
ExerciSe your brain, Pooh. I'm with Erica. I would think seriously before spending our young talent for a second-rate personality on the downside of his career coming off an injury with a long-term monolithic contract. Yeah, it's like that....

If we can pawn Walker + some spares off on NJ, then fine. Otherwise, the guy is an insult to my intelligence off the court and is not a nice guy. Even IF we won the championship (and that is a big IF), I might have to listen to an extended JKidd interview after the game.... Enough said.

sorry, but I care about this team, and this team winning. individual personalities don't mean shit to me...as long as they perform on the court, I like them.

anyone that wouldn't trade for Kidd (that has a great shot of landing him) is an absolute moron. I don't give a shit if he was on life support; as long as he's breathing, he's the player at his position on the planet. can you say that about anyone on our roster outside of Dirk?

freestyle · 07-31-2004, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

Quote:

Originally posted by: freestyle
ExerciSe your brain, Pooh. I'm with Erica. I would think seriously before spending our young talent for a second-rate personality on the downside of his career coming off an injury with a long-term monolithic contract. Yeah, it's like that....

If we can pawn Walker + some spares off on NJ, then fine. Otherwise, the guy is an insult to my intelligence off the court and is not a nice guy. Even IF we won the championship (and that is a big IF), I might have to listen to an extended JKidd interview after the game.... Enough said.

sorry, but I care about this team, and this team winning. individual personalities don't mean shit to me...as long as they perform on the court, I like them.

anyone that wouldn't trade for Kidd (that has a great shot of landing him) is an absolute moron. I don't give a shit if he was on life support; as long as he's breathing, he's the player at his position on the planet. can you say that about anyone on our roster outside of Dirk?

If you are still willing to trade for JKidd if he was on life support, then I have nothing further to say.

Poindexter Einstein · 08-01-2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
I don't give a shit if he was on life support; as long as he's breathing, he's the player at his position on the planet.

This is insane ... and it is reflective of way too many who want Kidd any way possible.

Get it in your head, people - you dont know if Kidd will EVER be worth a crap if you get him. Major surgery (that NO ONE has ever been the same, after having it) means he is more likely than not to play like a plain ole PG with a bad shot, from now on.

Then you are taking 90M off of NJs hands to boot? And then you want to beg NJ to let you have him? I'll take Zo you say. I'll give you money, draft picks, Howard - I beg you, let me have him.

Sheeeesh

And he is already 31 - the age is getting up there while he tries to recuperate.

Everyone just wants a big name. At any price. That is no way to create a winner.

JLEEHASMUCHGAME · 08-01-2004, 01:50 AM

courtesy of endtroducing - "howard is never going to be a player like prince...prince is a lockdown defender who can't be relied on to score. howard's an athletic swingman that can take to the rim...he can defend, yeah, but nowhere near the level tayshaun does."

Totally not on the topic of the thread, but I would say that you are right, Howard is nothing like Prince. In my drunk off the mav jungle juice state, I would say he is arguably BETTER than tayshaun as is - and I really like Tayshaun's game. Howard may not be there as far as basketball intelligence goes, but concerning athleticism, talent, and upside I think Josh eats Tayshaun's lunch. Howard had, by most NBA observors, a splash of a ROOKIE year. I expect nothing but great things from him. I think he will develop and surprise us in all or at least some of the following attributes: rebounding, jumpshooting/scoring, passing(I can hope can't I?), and defense. Not to mention whatever a man picks up after experiencing an 82 game NBA season plus five playoff games, Howard will have.

Plus, I like his attitude; he and daniels both strike me as players that don't get intimidated by anyone or thing. I can see how you might say prince is a lockdown defender because of the finals against Kobe, but I think a lot of what prince does is more bradleyesque rather than what a doug christie can provide on defense. To me Prince just uses his 'fast for his size and freakishly long arms' to his advantage on defense. I wouldn't say Josh is at Tayshaun's defensive level yet, but I wouldn't put it too far beyond him either.

On topic, when kidd was on the Mavs, I couldn't stand the guy because he couldn't make a shot. Now I think kidd's improved his shot, but unfortunately he might not be healthy and has a long expensive contract. That said, I think he would be fantastic with dirk and company. I would not, however, take him at the price of howard. I feel like howard is a perfect compliment, along the lines of rjeff or marion, to a player like kidd.

EricaLubarsky · 08-01-2004, 02:46 AM

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Lucious Harris (6.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.4 ppg, -6.0 rpg, and +1.5 apg.

New Jersey trades: SG Lucious Harris (6.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26 games)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 48 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.4 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and -1.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Poindexter Einstein · 08-01-2004, 03:21 AM

Stack - Delk - TAW (51M)

FOR

Kidd - Harris-#1 (93M)

TRADE ACCEPTED

EricaLubarsky · 08-01-2004, 03:52 AM

why would NJ do that? I don't see them trading a guy in his last year for TAW and Tony Delk who have 3 and 2 seasons left respectively. Then a number one? If they want to get good guys on the cheap, rookies are a great way to underpay talent. If we are in the mood for ripoffs....

PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Jason Collins (5.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.5 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.5 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and +4.8 apg.

New Jersey trades: C Jason Collins (5.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28.5 minutes)
PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 48 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.5 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and -4.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Poindexter Einstein · 08-01-2004, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I don't see them trading a guy in his last year for TAW and Tony Delk who have 3 and 2 seasons left respectively. Then a number one? If they want to get good guys on the cheap, rookies are a great way to underpay talent. ED

Ummm they are supposedly going to CUT Harris and eat his deal. Taking him is a favor to NJ, not a bonus to Dallas, and the 1 is to compensate Dallas (cheap talent later) for taking so much money from NJ payroll.

The TAW-Delk deals are to reduce the net outlay for Kidd/Harris. Yes they have a couplle more years, but Kidd has FIVE, at monster numbers, and he is injured on top of it all.

Poindexter Einstein · 08-01-2004, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
why would NJ do that?

Serious answer: that deal has 42M reasons- all of which are on NJ's primary priority list - they would consider it. Cutting money is their MAIN goal in NJ, and I truly believe they woud love (in the worst way) to find someone who will take Kidd and his contract of their payroll.

Money is the name of the game right now for many teams, instead of talent.

EricaLubarsky · 08-01-2004, 04:10 AM

I should have added "where can I sign" to the original post. I was just too caught up in the details.

Poindexter Einstein · 08-01-2004, 04:15 AM

"Walker-Lettner for Collins-Kidd"?

I think the Mavs want SOME money (a decent chunk) to expire this year - so that combo from Dalllas is TOO rich a price I think. Though Cuban doesnt pinch pennies, there still needs to be some attention to payroll, just like any team or business.

EricaLubarsky · 08-01-2004, 03:28 PM

Collins is a starting center for incredibly cheap. I'm sure he would like that deal.

Quote:

Though Cuban doesnt pinch pennies

Yes he does. "Nelson said reducing payroll is "part of where we need to be in Mark's eyes."

endtroducing · 08-01-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: JLEEHASMUCHGAME
courtesy of endtroducing - "howard is never going to be a player like prince...prince is a lockdown defender who can't be relied on to score. howard's an athletic swingman that can take to the rim...he can defend, yeah, but nowhere near the level tayshaun does."

Totally not on the topic of the thread, but I would say that you are right, Howard is nothing like Prince. In my drunk off the mav jungle juice state, I would say he is arguably BETTER than tayshaun as is - and I really like Tayshaun's game. Howard may not be there as far as basketball intelligence goes, but concerning athleticism, talent, and upside I think Josh eats Tayshaun's lunch. Howard had, by most NBA observors, a splash of a ROOKIE year. I expect nothing but great things from him. I think he will develop and surprise us in all or at least some of the following attributes: rebounding, jumpshooting/scoring, passing(I can hope can't I?), and defense. Not to mention whatever a man picks up after experiencing an 82 game NBA season plus five playoff games, Howard will have.

Plus, I like his attitude; he and daniels both strike me as players that don't get intimidated by anyone or thing. I can see how you might say prince is a lockdown defender because of the finals against Kobe, but I think a lot of what prince does is more bradleyesque rather than what a doug christie can provide on defense. To me Prince just uses his 'fast for his size and freakishly long arms' to his advantage on defense. I wouldn't say Josh is at Tayshaun's defensive level yet, but I wouldn't put it too far beyond him either.

On topic, when kidd was on the Mavs, I couldn't stand the guy because he couldn't make a shot. Now I think kidd's improved his shot, but unfortunately he might not be healthy and has a long expensive contract. That said, I think he would be fantastic with dirk and company. I would not, however, take him at the price of howard. I feel like howard is a perfect compliment, along the lines of rjeff or marion, to a player like kidd.

howard's the better overall player, yeah, but prince is in the top 5 defensive players in the whole league. I remember watching him lockdown marquis everytime we played kentucky...it was incredible.