Rangers Francisco Arrested

[Max Power]

There are a couple of other factors to this story. First - Oakland's fans are extremely close to the bullpen. In fact, they can reach down and grab at players (and the fans have done so). Second - this is the same ballpark where a fan nailed Carl Everett with a thrown cell phone last year. Third - the Rangers say they asked for extra security and the umpire verified this yet the Athletic organization denies that a request was EVER made. I have a theory why - the abusive fans are being used as an advantage BY THE ORGANIZATION to try and get the relievers heads out of the game.

While Francisco should have never lost his head in this way, the situation should have never existed in the first place. I place the blame on the low class Oakland organization. They have failed to meet the most basic obligation of a workplace - a safe place to work.

[Murphy3]

It's just a rumor that I've read elsewhere, but the rumor is that the fan had been razzing Brocail about his still born son....... I cannot even confirm that he and his wife have gone through this....or that the rumor about the fan razzing him about it is true either.

[Murphy3]

Once again...this is COMPLETELY unconfirmed. I have no idea whether or not they've even had a still born child and I surely cannot confirm what was said in the stands...

[mary]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
It's just a rumor that I've read elsewhere, but the rumor is that the fan had been razzing Brocail about his still born son....... I cannot even confirm that he and his wife have gone through this....or that the rumor about the fan razzing him about it is true either.

I'm not saying its impossible....but it seems unlikely that the Buenos (or any Generic Oakland Fan) would have this type of personal information on a relatively obscure Texas Rangers relief pitcher. Was anything like this every made public to the local or national media?

If there is any truth to this at all (and if it is, it doesn't change a thing), it seems more likely that the fan was just throwing random shit out there and unknowingly hit on something. Either way, it definitely goes above and beyond "acceptable" heckling behavior, IF it is true.

[Rhylan]

My honest, albeit less-than-classy take on this couple in the stands is that I don't think it's the first time they've been in a fight. The wife alone looks like she has been raising hell in bars for 20 years.

That being said, there's no reason or excuse for Francisco's chair toss, and he should be suspended a long time.

Now, it's pure rumor, but if the still born baby thing turns out to be true, then the rest of the players are off the hook, as far as I'm concerned. The video looked to me like some were going after the husband and the rest were trying to hold those guys back. It's not the right thing to do, and I would hope that I wouldn't react that way, but I also think that there are individual situations where an arse-whuppin' is in order. And if I'm Doug Brocail and this guy's been on our case all night, then pulls out the baby comment... maybe.

Of course, nothing can get Francisco off the hook. Throwing the chair was reckless - obviously - it hit the wrong person.

[Murphy3]

Mary, I see no reason as to why a fan wouldn't know personal information about a player...fans can get their hands on just about anything. I've even heard A's fans say that many of the season ticket holders in the bullpen area have one goal at the game...to piss off the players in the pen...so perhaps the fan was just doing his best to make sure that he did a good job of pissing off the players.

Regardless, throwing a chair in the stands isn't the best way to go about things BUT, if the speculation is true, the guy deserved an ass whipping. And his wife would be guilty by assosciation in my mind for not doing something about her husbands behavior.

But Francisco would still deserve a stiff suspension.


NOW, this is all dependent upon the rumors being true.

[Male30Dan]

Where exactly have you heard these rumors Murph???

[Murphy3]

www.dallasbaseballhome.com
I can't remember the other couple of places, but I'll track them down later.

It was just a blurb or two by a couple of posters...like I said, I cannot confirm anything at this point as to whether or not the guy has even had a still born child or whatnot.

[Chiwas]

The Rangers issued a statement from owner Tom Hicks on Tuesday apologizing for the event.

"On behalf of the Texas Rangers, I want to apologize for the conduct of some members of our club last night in Oakland," said Hicks. "Their behavior, especially the injury to a fan, was unacceptable. Even in a difficult or abusive environment, players should never be provoked into such actions."

Right on.



MLB investigating Oakland fracas

• Selig: No excuse for fan-player violence
• Selig's statement regarding Oakland incident

OAKLAND -- The day after a bizarre confrontation that left Rangers reliever Frank Francisco facing aggravated battery charges and a female A's fan with a broken nose and facial lacerations, all parties involved could agree on one thing:
It was a regrettable incident that nobody would like to see repeated.

The Rangers issued a statement from owner Tom Hicks on Tuesday apologizing for the event.

"On behalf of the Texas Rangers, I want to apologize for the conduct of some members of our club last night in Oakland," said Hicks. "Their behavior, especially the injury to a fan, was unacceptable. Even in a difficult or abusive environment, players should never be provoked into such actions."

Rangers manager Buck Showalter reinforced the sentiments in a pregame press briefing.

"I'm just here to echo those words and apologize to all those who were affected by last night's incident," Showalter said, reading from a handwritten piece of paper. "We realize this is taking the focus off what we hope is an exciting finish to the season, and we regret that."

In a fracas alongside the visitors' bullpen at Network Associates Coliseum that has drawn national media attention and produced countless video replays, Francisco hoisted a folding chair into the stands during the ninth inning Monday night, striking a 41-year-old woman in the face.

The 25-year-old rookie right-hander was taken from the stadium to jail, where he was booked and his mug shot was taken. He was released about two hours later on $15,000 bail, Oakland Police spokeswoman Danielle Ashford said.

Francisco's action escalated what already was a heated confrontation that had fellow reliever Doug Brocail being held back by teammates from confronting a heckler. The event and its aftermath resulted in a 19-minute delay of the game, eventually won by the A's, 7-6, in 10 innings.

The woman struck by the chair is seeking prosecution on the battery charge.

Francisco arrived at the Coliseum later than his teammates on Tuesday, about two hours before game time. He was not out in the bullpen with the rest of the relievers during the game but was available to pitch.

Brocail, meanwhile, was booed by the A's fans as he entered the game in the seventh inning Tuesday night, but he was awarded the victory with two perfect innings in the Rangers' 12-9 victory.

Commissioner Bud Selig made it clear that Major League Baseball does not condone or accept what occurred Monday night. Any discipline levied on Francisco or any other players will be handled by Bob Watson, MLB's vice president of on-field operations.

"One can never condone, under any circumstances, players engaging in any kind of destruction and violence," Selig said during an impromptu media conference at Miller Park in Milwaukee during the Giants-Brewers game on Tuesday night. "If there was not adequate security or the fans were belligerent, that's another story. But it still does not condone that kind of behavior."

Sandy Alderson, Major League Baseball's executive vice president for baseball operations, arrived in Oakland on Tuesday afternoon and immediately began his investigation of the matter in association with MLB senior vice president for security Kevin Hallinan.

"There are no circumstances where it is appropriate for players to engage fans into the stands," said Alderson. "As a consequence, that conduct will be addressed. At the same time, it's important that fans understand that their conduct at some level is also subject to limits."

A's vice president of stadium operations David Rinetti maintained his position that A's fans seated near the visitors' bullpen "did not engage in activity that warrants an ejection from the ballpark," based on the rules of conduct posted at gates at the Coliseum and every Major League ballpark.

"The information that I got does not constitute inappropriate behavior by the fans," Rinetti said. "That means that what was said back-and-forth between the fan and the players did not constitute an ejection and should not have warranted the reaction."

Among the items on the code of conduct that would seem to apply to the situation:


"The progress of the game will not be disrupted by guests' actions or unauthorized persons entering the playing field."

"Guests will enjoy the baseball experience free from foul/abusive language or obscene gestures."
Asked whether he believed the fans had crossed the line in their heckling of Rangers relievers, Alderson said it's too soon to determine that because the investigation is ongoing.

"Clearly, there are facts that are yet to be determined," Alderson said. "There is a criminal investigation as well as (Hallinan's) investigation. I think it's premature to know exactly what the fan conduct was and whether it crossed the line."

Rinetti said there would be an added security presence around the Rangers' bullpen and dugout for the remainder of the series. He dispatched approximately 10 security staff members to the bullpen area, on the field and in the stands. They were joined by two Oakland Police Department officers on the field, and another located next to the dugout.

Showalter said Tuesday he appreciates the help Rinetti and the A's organization has provided the Rangers.

"He did everything he could possibly to do to make this a safe environment not only for the players, but for the fans," Showalter said.

The night before, Showalter said fans had gone over the line in their abuse of his team's relievers.

"Obviously, there was a lot of emotions last night and I'm going to be supportive of our players. Anything that we can do better, we'll talk about it behind closed doors."

Before Tuesday's game, the door to the Rangers' clubhouse was closed for almost 90 minutes beyond the time when media is normally allowed to enter. Rangers players did not address the incident.

"I'm not going to make any statement about last night," said Brocail. "We're here to play baseball and we're going to go forward."

John Schlegel is a reporter for MLB.com. National MLB.com reporter Barry Bloom and The Associated Press contributed to this report. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

A's vice president of stadium operations David Rinetti maintained his position that A's fans seated near the visitors' bullpen "did not engage in activity that warrants an ejection from the ballpark," based on the rules of conduct posted at gates at the Coliseum and every Major League ballpark.

Never using the worst offensive words against a player by a fan at any sport will be enough justification for a physical agression by the player to the fan. It is despicable the action of Francisco and other players who have done it in the past.

[mary]

Mary, I see no reason as to why a fan wouldn't know personal information about a player...fans can get their hands on just about anything. I've even heard A's fans say that many of the season ticket holders in the bullpen area have one goal at the game...to piss off the players in the pen...so perhaps the fan was just doing his best to make sure that he did a good job of pissing off the players.

I'd like to know how exactly you would go about finding out the medical history of one Mrs. Brocail. If its been reported in the media, then maybe there's a story on it stashed away in some paper somewhere on the internet - but I still find that scenario very unlikely, given that its Doug Brocail that we're talking about here.

[mary]

And his wife would be guilty by assosciation in my mind for not doing something about her husbands behavior.

How do you know she approved of her husband's behavior or that she didn't try to stop him?? What is she supposed to do exactly? Is this a child we're talking about here are a grown man? What if his mother were sitting next him? Would it then be her fault as well for not "doing something" about it? Would she be deserving of a broken nose as well?

[Murphy3]

Never using the worst offensive words against a player by a fan at any sport will be enough justification for a physical agression by the player to the fan.

I disagree. I can think of several things that a fan could say in which he would be deserving of a beating.

[chumdawg]

I heard a story on the radio about Steve Kerr. Apparently his father was a diplomat, and was assassinated while Steve was in college. So the Wildcats are on the road at rival Arizona State, some fans start heckling Steve with "Where's your dad? Where's your dad?"

Yeah, Murph, I agree 100%. Some people flat deserve a beating.

[Chiwas]

That story is very sad, chumdawg, but I insist, that's why the law exists. We don't live in Iraq -for example-, that's, at a fundamentalist culture.


Edit. Spelling.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I heard a story on the radio about Steve Kerr. Apparently his father was a diplomat, and was assassinated while Steve was in college. So the Wildcats are on the road at rival Arizona State, some fans start heckling Steve with "Where's your dad? Where's your dad?"

Yeah, Murph, I agree 100%. Some people flat deserve a beating.

And the sadest part of it, the a@# who said it thinks he didn't do anything wrong, and will collect thousands of $$$$'s for something he started. Some people do deserve a beating, and not to be rewarded because they could push someone over their breaking point. I am not saying that Francisco shouldn't be suspended....he should be. Just that this unfortunate incident is viewed much differently when we are talking sports instead of say....politics.

Here is Epitome22's reply when a Kerry heckler got hurt at the DNC rally.

By Epitome22

That guy should have picked a better seat. If you are a wimp, and you are going to make an ass out of yourself at a political rally, don't sit near a blue collar sheet metal worker who obviously disagrees with you.

So it was OK, as long as you are smacking someone you disagree with that is heckling, but not ok if a sports guy does it to someone who is heckling him. Ah, the double standard hypocritical stuff that always ticks me off.

How about Dooby's reply?

If you act like a jackass, you deserve to get treated like one, regardless of party affiliation.

How about KG even?

Yeah, no real sympathy for the guy. Sure, he probably didn't deserve to be assaulted, but he knew that he was asking for trouble.

Moral of the story: If you want to be a jackass heckler, you better bring your posse.

So here is my question. With the exception of how the media has this portrayed, why is this situation any different that any political rally? Some person heckled, and someone exploded. The one exploding should be arrested and charged, but the one doing the heckling is still guilty of acting like a jackass if nothing else. Why are the feeling so much different about the two situations, and why does the media treat them like they are worlds apart with their coverage?

[Dooby]

I haven't commented so I don't know why my name is being brought up. This isn't a zero-sum game. I mean it: If you act like a jackass, you deserve to get treated like one, regardless. But that doesn't mean it is OK to assault somebody. It is possible for both people to be in the wrong, you know.

[Murphy3]

I fully expect that both are in the wrong. I have no sympathy for any of the parties involved except for possibly Doug Brocail if the rumors as to what was said are in fact true.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I fully expect that both are in the wrong. I have no sympathy for any of the parties involved except for possibly Doug Brocail if the rumors as to what was said are in fact true.

Exactly.........
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was just reading that Francisco may be counter suing, and may have an excellent case according to his lawyer.

Why are the DA's in California waiting to determine if they are going to charge him?

For something that sure seemed to be "cut and dried" by the media, they sure are taking their time to decide suspensions, and decide whether to charge him, and whether what he did was a misdemenor or felony, etc. I am still waiting for what really started this.

I can understand when one guy goes off because someone ticked him off, but when you can get 3-5 guys to just lose it all at once, then something pretty bad had to be either said or done. This is what doesn't make sense to me.

[vinnieponte]

First off let me state that baseball sucks and basketball is the most important sport around, and yes I'm right, ifn't why the hell are their more empty seats at the game than people who attend them. My point anyways is that he deserved to get arrested, he will be fined, suspended and he will get sued for alot of money and he will loose. yes that couple was wrong, yet who in here hasn't yelled at the oposing team at a mavs game.

[alby]

theres always been conflict between the player and the fan, but players should act with higher regard to their reputation because they ARE in the public spotlight and people are constantly watching for the next wrong thing they do.. after all said is done, a player should never i repeat never injure a paying fan/customer no exceptions.. they are ultimately paying for your damn salary

[Drbio]

A couple years ago when the Mariners were in town, a buddy of mine and I were in the outfield seats and just lit up their outfielders. The whole crowd was doing it. The players were clearly affected and some fans went over the lien with some of the things they said. Later we went up to the club above the visiting bullpen and had a couple of beers. We sat out on the balcony there overlooking the Mariner bullpen. John Halama was warming up and every time he pitched my buddy and I would yell something like "Ball...you suck Halama"...or some other stupid ranting. We finally started yelling about his uniform, made up stupid names for him, etc and his teammates started laughing. He looked like he got pissed and walked over under the stadium for a second and then resumed pitching. We resumed yelling. A minute or so later a guy approached us from the bar with two beers and told us that they were compliments of Mr. John Halama. He was watching as this took place and as we looked back down on him he tipped his hat to us and continued to warm up in complete silence. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[fin4life]

Originally posted by: Drbio
A couple years ago when the Mariners were in town, a buddy of mine and I were in the outfield seats and just lit up their outfielders. The whole crowd was doing it. The players were clearly affected and some fans went over the lien with some of the things they said. Later we went up to the club above the visiting bullpen and had a couple of beers. We sat out on the balcony there overlooking the Mariner bullpen. John Halama was warming up and every time he pitched my buddy and I would yell something like "Ball...you suck Halama"...or some other stupid ranting. We finally started yelling about his uniform, made up stupid names for him, etc and his teammates started laughing. He looked like he got pissed and walked over under the stadium for a second and then resumed pitching. We resumed yelling. A minute or so later a guy approached us from the bar with two beers and told us that they were compliments of Mr. John Halama. He was watching as this took place and as we looked back down on him he tipped his hat to us and continued to warm up in complete silence. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

great story

[Just211]

watching the game, I also saw that guy early in the game, and thought it be tough warming up with someone constantly attacking you. and IMO heckling is for pricks. Sure I'll give a boo, but to go to a game with the purpose of verballing attacking a player, then you are a loser.
There is no excuse on why a player should have to take this. Some people say its okay beacuse they get payed well, but CEO's get paid well, but we can't go to a board meeting and verbal assualt them. And some people say it's part of sports, but thats bullshit. Go to a highschool game and to that, and see how many other fans put up with it.
Now I'm not saying it's okay to fight back, and Frankie should face charges and suspensions, but fans shouldn't be rewarded for there part in this either. The Bueno guy just looks like a prick, and honestly his wife should be blaming him for putting her in danger.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: Just211
watching the game, I also saw that guy early in the game, and thought it be tough warming up with someone constantly attacking you. and IMO heckling is for pricks. Sure I'll give a boo, but to go to a game with the purpose of verballing attacking a player, then you are a loser.
There is no excuse on why a player should have to take this. Some people say its okay beacuse they get payed well, but CEO's get paid well, but we can't go to a board meeting and verbal assualt them. And some people say it's part of sports, but thats bullshit. Go to a highschool game and to that, and see how many other fans put up with it.
Now I'm not saying it's okay to fight back, and Frankie should face charges and suspensions, but fans shouldn't be rewarded for there part in this either. The Bueno guy just looks like a prick, and honestly his wife should be blaming him for putting her in danger.

Well said. I totally agree.

Back in the 80's I saw 3 hecklers get taken out back of a baseball game (a few fans), and broken noses happened as well. I still haven't forgotten it, and still don't have much sympathy for the three because they were definately trying to start something, then were PO'd when they couldn't handle what they started.

[mavsfanforever]

Man the league was brutal in their suspensions

Fransisco- Done for the season and a penalty.
Brocail- 7 game susp. and penalty
Alamanzar- 5 game
Bullpen coach - 5 game susp.

Man rangers are trying hard to stay in the race and stupid Budd Selig is trying to make sure the injured woman does not sue the Major League.

[mary]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
Man the league was brutal in their suspensions

Fransisco- Done for the season and a penalty.
Brocail- 7 game susp. and penalty
Alamanzar- 5 game
Bullpen coach - 5 game susp.

I'm a little surprised Brocail's suspension was so stiff. Oh well. It would've made things a whole lot more simple if the bullpen had just gotten up and walked to the dugout.

I had heard earlier that it was Rudy Jaramio (sp?) that was suspended - not a bullpen coach.

[mavsfanforever]

I am sorry, that was Rudi who I heard is generally very cool.

[mavsfanforever]

Another thing I heard on Mike and Mike show today was that David Wells admitted that there are a lot of fans whom he thought would have punched in his career. David Wells mom died and a week after that when he was playing on the Road the crowd started yelling at him (some people from the crowd) about his dead mom trying to distract him from pitching. This is a sorry state of the fans.

[Chiwas]

Funny, this happened yesterday in the playoffs of the league of our State:



The Rangers bullpen looks gentle compared to this. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

[sike]

come on kitty, joining the fans to do the Macarena never hurt no one [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]