Then Dirk has to be the MVP right....

[Tokey41]

Amare and Marion rely on Nash to get their shots, Josh has the ability to create his own shot and has comparable numbers to Amare this season. I would say Josh deserves to be an all star soley based on the fact he works a lot harder for his numbers. Nash is the system in Phoenix, I would really like to see what happens if Nash went down and Amare didnt get his passes in the paint and Marion isn't left wide open.

[rabbitproof]

Some Guy,

The idea of making players into All-Stars is nice on paper but does not happen. Reward should be given to those who have the biggest impact on the game and their team - not who benefits the most from playing beside another player.

Anyways, I see your argument but I disagree. If a sales team has great numbers because they have the best product to sell and have the best analyst, the reward should go to the product manager or analyst - not the sales team. It's sports voodoo where being average is worthy of award so long as you play beside a super talent.

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Amare and Marion rely on Nash to get their shots, Josh has the ability to create his own shot and has comparable numbers to Amare this season. I would say Josh deserves to be an all star soley based on the fact he works a lot harder for his numbers. Nash is the system in Phoenix, I would really like to see what happens if Nash went down and Amare didnt get his passes in the paint and Marion isn't left wide open.

Would not mind seeing that myself.

[SUNS RULE!]

i heard they already gave it to nash

[Nashman]

Nash has earned it. Dirk deserves to be in the same discussion but the 3 time MVP will rise again because he has outplayed Dirk.

[Drbio]

Great.....more suns fans.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by SUNS RULE!

i heard they already gave it to nash

Givin' it, minus the chair.

[Drbio]

Nash is getting a handful of the Denver special eh?

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by Drbio

Nash is getting a handful of the Denver special eh?

Kobe calls it the Night Train.

[DarenG]

Dirk deserves it just as much as Nash this year because he has stepped up his play. It just stinks that so did Nash and the Suns. If it wasn't for that Dirk would win it running away IMO.

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah all-stars look good on paper and Dallas spreads it around too much to look good there except for Dirk. Phoenix though has such superior talent to any team but need to trade some of that offensive talent for defense and rebounding. Otherwise they'll struggle again in the playoffs.

[you]

Originally Posted by Drbio

Great.....more suns fans.

They are seeking validation. Dont give them any.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

barbosa is devin with a jumper and less hops. I was just thinking about it. I think there is a fairly decent chance that phoenix wins

MVP(nash)
DPOY(marion)
6th man(barbosa)
COTY(dantoni)

and has 3 all stars

while dallas has 1 all star and wins no awards with the best record in the nba...Hell barbosa might win most improved too. The stupidity of this is just beyond me. Dallas is apparently the only team in league history that wins without great players or a single transcendant player. Its just sad.

I agree with you up to a certain point.... that point being that it's really not all that stupid.

It really is fair to say that Dirk has never been THE BEST player in the league (2nd or 3rd, sure, but not numero uno) and that.......

Amare and Marion > J-Ho and JET.
Barbosa, Diaw et al > Damp, Harris, Stack et al

etc.., etc....

so, rather than lament the arguably appropriate lack of accolades given to individual components of the Mavs, we ought instead celebrate the remarkable chemistry, effort, and team-play of the Mavs for this year, and lo this entire decade (save possibly the year of our Lord, 2004).

think about it...coming off the most futile decade any franchise has ever endured--the mavs are headed for their seventh straight season of 52+ wins, they've already won 8 playoff series this decade, and....

bearing in mind that technically the Mavs were a fourth seed last year while the Heat were a two seed....

they have not lost a playoff series to a lower seeded team in the entire stretch....

IOW, we've been fortunate enough to watch a largely self-less and over-achieving team, or at least appropriately-achieving team, for 7 straight seasons -- I much prefer this situation to that of watching a bunch of under-achieving prima donnas any day....

and this knowledge, in my humble estimation, makes the coming glory in June all that much sweeter.

cheers

[Windmill360]

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

Glorious

[capitalcity]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Windmill360° again.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Amare and Marion rely on Nash to get their shots, Josh has the ability to create his own shot and has comparable numbers to Amare this season. I would say Josh deserves to be an all star soley based on the fact he works a lot harder for his numbers. Nash is the system in Phoenix, I would really like to see what happens if Nash went down and Amare didnt get his passes in the paint and Marion isn't left wide open.

Or, you could just as easily argue that Josh gets alot of his numbers because of the firepower that sorrounds him on the team. Dirk makes the game so much easier for every other player on his team. I think you're undervaluing his impact.

As for Marion..well, he's been doing this for awhile..even before Nash. Obviously, Nash makes it easier for guys like Marion and Amare.. But, just how much of an impact do they have on Nash? Nash wasn't an MVP contender while in Dallas. Most wouldn't have called him the best player on the team. So he all of a sudden became one of the best players in the history of the league once he went to Phoenix? Perhaps Amare and Marion have had as big or bigger impact on Nash's game than what Nash has had on theirs...

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

The picture worth more than a thousand words.

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Or, you could just as easily argue that Josh gets alot of his numbers because of the firepower that sorrounds him on the team. Dirk makes the game so much easier for every other player on his team. I think you're undervaluing his impact.

As for Marion..well, he's been doing this for awhile..even before Nash. Obviously, Nash makes it easier for guys like Marion and Amare.. But, just how much of an impact do they have on Nash? Nash wasn't an MVP contender while in Dallas. Most wouldn't have called him the best player on the team. So he all of a sudden became one of the best players in the history of the league once he went to Phoenix? Perhaps Amare and Marion have had as big or bigger impact on Nash's game than what Nash has had on theirs...

Theres no doubt how important Dirk is to his team and getting them open looks, it's a lot easier when you have a guy that the defense pays that much attention to. Also agreed Dallas does have some serious firepower, but as much as Phoenix? No. The reason I say Josh gets his own shot is because Dirk unlike Nash doesnt have to touch the ball on every single possession (i'm pretty sure at least once every time he's on the court) before his teamates make a basket. Josh can take it up the floor and slash, take a jumper, and now this year hit the three all without Dirk setting up the play. Although I get your point, Dirk will always demand double teams and special attention from the defense and makes it easier for our shooters.

I'm just saying I hardly if ever see Amare take it himself or Marion for that matter without Nash setting something up first. I can't blame Phoenix because obviously it works but i'm curious to how their numbers would be affected by the absence of Nash. Charlie Rosen had an interesting article about Amare's 30 point night against the Knicks that suggested it was Amare's stats but it was Nash's doing. I think the whole Phoenix squad would suffer (as Dallas would without Dirk) the difference im theorizing here is Josh would get his points somewhat in the same manner (a little harder, but he still takes it upon himself quite a bit) while Amare and Marion would have to work a LOT harder than they do with Nash on the court.

And the theory that Marion and Amare making Nash better is interesting, granted having athletic freaks of nature and good shooters to set up on plays sure makes his job a lot easier. I guess we can conclude that they just make each other better, so that leads to another argument... if Nash's team makes HIM better then why does he deserve the MVP? Isn't he supposed to make his team better? Paradox. Without Nash that team would be nothing and without the cast around Nash, he would not be as effective at his job as he is right now.

[mqywaaah]

This thread's title is wrong, should be " Then Dirk IS the MVP, right?" Notice the slight hint of uncertainty? That's bec in this league, nothing is certain. Not even the most obvious fact that Dirk is the MVP. What a shame...

[mavsjunkie]

If Dirk is the only all star on the best team in basketball, and he's not an MVP, then Avery must be the best coach in history to have this kind of record with a bunch of scrubs playing for him. The NBA is dumb..

[Murphy3]

Marion was an incredibly efficient player before Nash showed up. He was already a 20+ PPG guy. Amare was well on his way to being a monster before Nash showed up. Yes, Nash makes it easier, but I find it difficult to believe that they wouldn't be putting up similar numbers with another point guard. I do believe that their shooting percentages would drop some. But, I actually believe that Amare would be averaging more points per game if he wasn't on a team in which the point guard was putting up almost 20 a night. I'd expect Amare's average to be closer to 24-25 a game if he had a point guard that didn't look to score as much as Nash does.

[birdsanctuary]

Mavs = 1 All Star
Dirk = MVP

[arwillan88]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I wouldn't say Phoenix has a better supporting cast overall but consider this:

Phoenix's top three players: Nash, Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion
Dallas' top three players: Dirk, Josh Howard, Jason Terry

Think about it: Stoudamire and Marion vs. Howard and Terry? Yes Josh is improving into an all-star "caliber" player and yes Terry is a good fit for this team...but talent wise there is no question that they have a better top three than we do. Fortunately, we have a strong well-rounded team beyond those top three but if you take Dirk away from the Mavs we're left with Terry and Howard. If you take Nash away from the Suns they still have Stoudamire and Marion.

Dirk is the MVP

i couldnt agree more with what you are saying here, but as much as some like to think dirk is the mvp he wont win it.....this year. Steve nash is going to get his 3rd, mid season voting gave him 8/10 votes with one for kobe and one for dirk. its just not there for him yet.

[kingmalaki]

I actually think Nash will get some backlash from voters who won't want to give him a third award. Both Nash and Dirk are putting up great numbers this season and both of their teams are doing great. At this stage I really couldn't complain if either of them won the award.

I think Nash gets the benefit of the doubt about his impact due to the Suns record prior to his arrival, and from what happened last year when Amare went down and his whole team changed...and they still go to the WCF. It helps the argument of him being able to get it done no matter who is on the team (not saying I agree with that...just talking perception here).

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

I actually think Nash will get some backlash from voters who won't want to give him a third award. Both Nash and Dirk are putting up great numbers this season and both of their teams are doing great. At this stage I really couldn't complain if either of them won the award.

I think Nash gets the benefit of the doubt about his impact due to the Suns record prior to his arrival, and from what happened last year when Amare went down and his whole team changed...and they still go to the WCF. It helps the argument of him being able to get it done no matter who is on the team (not saying I agree with that...just talking perception here).

Well if you want to make that argument... what happened to the Mavericks record when Nash left? Oh thats right, it improved and Dirk stepped up his game of course shocking the media which felt the Mavericks would fall into mediocrity wihtout Nash who was arguably holding Dirks overall development back.

But like I said the Suns get ridiculous love, they say Nash is the MVP and makes that team what it is yet they can have two other all stars who quite possibly make him look just as good. Pretty easy to rack up assists with the type of players Nash is surrounded with (a team designed to make him look good), but the media doesnt care about that obviously. And the coaches apparently dont agree with the media about Marion and Amare being products of Nash's brilliance when they select the all-stars. They get the best of both worlds from the media and the league.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Marion was an incredibly efficient player before Nash showed up. He was already a 20+ PPG guy. Amare was well on his way to being a monster before Nash showed up. Yes, Nash makes it easier, but I find it difficult to believe that they wouldn't be putting up similar numbers with another point guard. I do believe that their shooting percentages would drop some. But, I actually believe that Amare would be averaging more points per game if he wasn't on a team in which the point guard was putting up almost 20 a night. I'd expect Amare's average to be closer to 24-25 a game if he had a point guard that didn't look to score as much as Nash does.

Oh come on Murphy. Remember when Nash was here? Dirk got most of his points running the pick and pop. Remember the gnashing of teeth that Terry couldn't run the pick and pop 1/10th as well as Nash? So Stevie takes that play to Amare, and Nash's potency assures Amare of a huge number of good looks. Without the perfect setup man, who knows how well AS would score? You must also recall that Nash ran an awesome break as a Mav. He still does, and that generates easy points for both Marion and Amare. It has led PHX to exactly the same place it led Dallas so far. The conference finals, and no farther.

It is to Dirks credit that his game continued to grow without Nash to set him up. He now drives to the bucket, beats guys with his feet, fakes his way to open jumpers and fade aways and passes better than before.

Nash became MVP because his new team has better, and far more flashy, highlight reel-type finishers. More Sportscenter = more MVP votes. He now operates in an offense that's main play is "give Steve the ball and let him create. "That leads to more shots, more dunks and more assists. I don't think he's that much better, he just the total center of an offense designed around him that he is perfect for.

My argument for Dirk is that his new coach demands Dirk fit the offense, play better defense, get offensive rebounds and take the ball to the hoop. He has had to change his game since Nash left, and is a much better player now. And Dirk's improvement cannot be credited to anything his teammates do. He's not scoring off someone else's assists, he's getting far fewer easy buckets in transition, so he's working harder. Nash is just passing to higher percentage dunkers. So the PHX 3 all make the all star team. Who knows, soon, they might beat the Mavs, who've beaten them 6 out of the last 8.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Oh come on Murphy. Remember when Nash was here? Dirk got most of his points running the pick and pop. Remember the gnashing of teeth that Terry couldn't run the pick and pop 1/10th as well as Nash? So Stevie takes that play to Amare, and Nash's potency assures Amare of a huge number of good looks. Without the perfect setup man, who knows how well AS would score? You must also recall that Nash ran an awesome break as a Mav. He still does, and that generates easy points for both Marion and Amare. It has led PHX to exactly the same place it led Dallas so far. The conference finals, and no farther.

It is to Dirks credit that his game continued to grow without Nash to set him up. He now drives to the bucket, beats guys with his feet, fakes his way to open jumpers and fade aways and passes better than before.

Nash became MVP because his new team has better, and far more flashy, highlight reel-type finishers. More Sportscenter = more MVP votes. He now operates in an offense that's main play is "give Steve the ball and let him create. "That leads to more shots, more dunks and more assists. I don't think he's that much better, he just the total center of an offense designed around him that he is perfect for.

My argument for Dirk is that his new coach demands Dirk fit the offense, play better defense, get offensive rebounds and take the ball to the hoop. He has had to change his game since Nash left, and is a much better player now. And Dirk's improvement cannot be credited to anything his teammates do. He's not scoring off someone else's assists, he's getting far fewer easy buckets in transition, so he's working harder. Nash is just passing to higher percentage dunkers. So the PHX 3 all make the all star team. Who knows, soon, they might beat the Mavs, who've beaten them 6 out of the last 8.

Game. Set. Match.

[kingmalaki]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Well if you want to make that argument... what happened to the Mavericks record when Nash left? Oh thats right, it improved and Dirk stepped up his game of course shocking the media which felt the Mavericks would fall into mediocrity wihtout Nash who was arguably holding Dirks overall development back.

But like I said the Suns get ridiculous love, they say Nash is the MVP and makes that team what it is yet they can have two other all stars who quite possibly make him look just as good. Pretty easy to rack up assists with the type of players Nash is surrounded with (a team designed to make him look good), but the media doesnt care about that obviously. And the coaches apparently dont agree with the media about Marion and Amare being products of Nash's brilliance when they select the all-stars. They get the best of both worlds from the media and the league.

Let me clarify. I'm not making that argument. I think that is how some voters see it.

I agree with you about the Mavs improving without Nash, but they were still a playoff team. The Suns pre-Nash were in the lottery with basically the same team that got to the WCF with Nash the next year.

[mavsfan1000]

A lot of things changed since Nash left. Dallas got 2 point guards to replace Nash along with a big man in Dampier. Take those 3 players away and Dallas would be a mediocre team without Nash. Daniels would probably be the point guard along with the Walker and Nowitzi frontcourt. Ouch.

[craggmac]

This Fairy is not an All-Star.

[Janett_Reno]

I'm a Dallas fan and a Dirk fan but i will give you reasons why Nash will win MVP. He is little, no one can stop his layups and he can't jump, he can make a scrub player very good, he has the ball all the time and he makes Marion and Stoud great. Oh no, they will never win a NBA title because they do not have a center or a stopper. Even a guy like AK-47 would help them at center but they refuse and they will keep playing Don Nelson basketball. Nash is one of the most excitting players in the league and he scores like 20 per game and hands out like 12 to 15 ast. Those are points also.

Put Ben Wallace or Dampier on nash's team, now Wallace and Dampier have just become very good offensive players. Why? Steve Nash. You will never win a nba title this way but they are the most excitting team in regular season. They kill bad teams and bad teams do not make it to the playoffs and they struggle with playoff teams. Why? Because playoff teams have defense and have stoppers. Stoppers are Garnett, Duncan, Dampier, Diop, Ming, Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, the whole Detroit defense, even the Lakers play defense.

The Bulls did not have a great center when Jordan was there but Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Grant and even a guard or two was great on defense and then they threw in some big bruising centers to come knock you down. Nash would win a title under Jackson or Avery and with Pat Riley but again playing defense is not fun. It sux and is hard work.

Nash can't dunk the ball and look at his shooting %, amazing. Phx would be nothing without him and yes Diaw, Marion and Amare are good but look at Raja Bell, he goes from a total defense player and you put him with Nash and now he goes to a good offensive player. Nash makes people good to great.

Dirk is great but he is tall and who will the people vote for a big tall guyor short and has a disadvantage? If both have about the same numbers. This is why Lebron won't beat Nash for MVP. Nash is one of the best point guards i have ever seen play basketball. He is smart as they come. Magic was simply great because he was a 7' point guard. Stockton was very good but i'll take Nash over Stockton anyday. Magic is a differ story because no one can stop 7 feet.

You need to go inside Howard and Terry's numbers. These guys are not just some fair players but they border on great themself. Terry is like Nash being calm and he will throw a dagger in your heart and will make winning shots. Nash does also. Jason Terry is very good. Josh Howard is like a Scottie Pippen and Jordan would have not done what he did without Pippen and even Grant. Josh Howard is a star to me now. You need to watch his hustle and his defense and will to win. He will never give up, like Terry. Harris has a shot at being a star and Dirk has good people around him, like Nash but Dirk also has two centers and defensive stoppers.

Phx does not want a defense or a stopper, so they will lose in the playoffs. Dirk is great and we have to have him. We would make the playoffs without him but wouldn't go far. Phx would not make the playoffs without Nash. The most amazing thing with Nash, is he must make that outside shot alot to pull the defense and he does. Then no one would think he could score on Shaq or any center in the league and i have seen him score layups on 3 big men before and no don't ask me how, but he does. I think it is his balance and maybe his balance is the best i have ever seen in any player ever. His legs are strong also.

I agree with you, Dirk has been getting snubbed and will again but Nash is having a better season this year than the last two, plus the coach gives the ball to Nash and says dominate the ball, Nash you be coach and do what you want, so Nash has the say so if he wants to be MVP. It's their style and the ball is always in his hands and Dirk does not domiante the ball like that. Phx can't beat the Bulls in the playoffs either because they play defense.

MVP and winning titles are different. If i had my say so, give me the Tim Duncan and Shaq titles instead of MVP's and Nash and Dirk both are amazing players. It is sad we made Nash have Bradley as a center and if we could have ever had a center with him here playing with Dirk, they would have won a title. Nash won't win a title with Kurt Thomas his center. They are the best regular season team and one of the worst playoff teams.

I have no complaints if Nash or Dirk get MVP because i believe both deserve it. Dirks team is geared for playoffs, like the Spurs and we can win a title and that is when we also get respect.

[Murphy3]

Personally, I think Amare and Marion do as much to make Nash look good as Nash does to make Amare and Marion does.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I'm a Dallas fan and a Dirk fan but i will give you reasons why Nash will win MVP. He is little, no one can stop his layups and he can't jump, he can make a scrub player very good, he has the ball all the time and he makes Marion and Stoud great. Oh no, they will never win a NBA title because they do not have a center or a stopper. Even a guy like AK-47 would help them at center but they refuse and they will keep playing Don Nelson basketball. Nash is one of the most excitting players in the league and he scores like 20 per game and hands out like 12 to 15 ast. Those are points also.

Put Ben Wallace or Dampier on nash's team, now Wallace and Dampier have just become very good offensive players. Why? Steve Nash. You will never win a nba title this way but they are the most excitting team in regular season. They kill bad teams and bad teams do not make it to the playoffs and they struggle with playoff teams. Why? Because playoff teams have defense and have stoppers. Stoppers are Garnett, Duncan, Dampier, Diop, Ming, Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, the whole Detroit defense, even the Lakers play defense.

The Bulls did not have a great center when Jordan was there but Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Grant and even a guard or two was great on defense and then they threw in some big bruising centers to come knock you down. Nash would win a title under Jackson or Avery and with Pat Riley but again playing defense is not fun. It sux and is hard work.

Nash can't dunk the ball and look at his shooting %, amazing. Phx would be nothing without him and yes Diaw, Marion and Amare are good but look at Raja Bell, he goes from a total defense player and you put him with Nash and now he goes to a good offensive player. Nash makes people good to great.

Dirk is great but he is tall and who will the people vote for a big tall guyor short and has a disadvantage? If both have about the same numbers. This is why Lebron won't beat Nash for MVP. Nash is one of the best point guards i have ever seen play basketball. He is smart as they come. Magic was simply great because he was a 7' point guard. Stockton was very good but i'll take Nash over Stockton anyday. Magic is a differ story because no one can stop 7 feet.

You need to go inside Howard and Terry's numbers. These guys are not just some fair players but they border on great themself. Terry is like Nash being calm and he will throw a dagger in your heart and will make winning shots. Nash does also. Jason Terry is very good. Josh Howard is like a Scottie Pippen and Jordan would have not done what he did without Pippen and even Grant. Josh Howard is a star to me now. You need to watch his hustle and his defense and will to win. He will never give up, like Terry. Harris has a shot at being a star and Dirk has good people around him, like Nash but Dirk also has two centers and defensive stoppers.

Phx does not want a defense or a stopper, so they will lose in the playoffs. Dirk is great and we have to have him. We would make the playoffs without him but wouldn't go far. Phx would not make the playoffs without Nash. The most amazing thing with Nash, is he must make that outside shot alot to pull the defense and he does. Then no one would think he could score on Shaq or any center in the league and i have seen him score layups on 3 big men before and no don't ask me how, but he does. I think it is his balance and maybe his balance is the best i have ever seen in any player ever. His legs are strong also.

I agree with you, Dirk has been getting snubbed and will again but Nash is having a better season this year than the last two, plus the coach gives the ball to Nash and says dominate the ball, Nash you be coach and do what you want, so Nash has the say so if he wants to be MVP. It's their style and the ball is always in his hands and Dirk does not domiante the ball like that. Phx can't beat the Bulls in the playoffs either because they play defense.

MVP and winning titles are different. If i had my say so, give me the Tim Duncan and Shaq titles instead of MVP's and Nash and Dirk both are amazing players. It is sad we made Nash have Bradley as a center and if we could have ever had a center with him here playing with Dirk, they would have won a title. Nash won't win a title with Kurt Thomas his center. They are the best regular season team and one of the worst playoff teams.

I have no complaints if Nash or Dirk get MVP because i believe both deserve it. Dirks team is geared for playoffs, like the Spurs and we can win a title and that is when we also get respect.

You just wrote 10 paragraphs without a single redeeming value. At no point in your incoherent rambling did you stumble on anything that even remotely resembled a valid point. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[WurzburgBorn]

You just wrote 10 paragraphs without a single redeeming value. At no point in your incoherent rambling did you stumble on anything that even remotely resembled a valid point. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Don't hold back now. Tell her how you really feel!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

You just wrote 10 paragraphs without a single redeeming value. At no point in your incoherent rambling did you stumble on anything that even remotely resembled a valid point. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[DirtyNashty]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Or, you could just as easily argue that Josh gets alot of his numbers because of the firepower that sorrounds him on the team. Dirk makes the game so much easier for every other player on his team. I think you're undervaluing his impact.

As for Marion..well, he's been doing this for awhile..even before Nash. Obviously, Nash makes it easier for guys like Marion and Amare.. But, just how much of an impact do they have on Nash? Nash wasn't an MVP contender while in Dallas. Most wouldn't have called him the best player on the team. So he all of a sudden became one of the best players in the history of the league once he went to Phoenix? Perhaps Amare and Marion have had as big or bigger impact on Nash's game than what Nash has had on theirs...

Thanks Murphy, for bringing the real comparison. I wonder what the difference in "Pre-Nash", and "Pre Dirk" stats are for all the players mentioned?

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I'm a Dallas fan and a Dirk fan but i will give you reasons why Nash will win MVP. He is little, no one can stop his layups and he can't jump, he can make a scrub player very good, he has the ball all the time and he makes Marion and Stoud great. Oh no, they will never win a NBA title because they do not have a center or a stopper. Even a guy like AK-47 would help them at center but they refuse and they will keep playing Don Nelson basketball. Nash is one of the most excitting players in the league and he scores like 20 per game and hands out like 12 to 15 ast. Those are points also.

Put Ben Wallace or Dampier on nash's team, now Wallace and Dampier have just become very good offensive players. Why? Steve Nash. You will never win a nba title this way but they are the most excitting team in regular season. They kill bad teams and bad teams do not make it to the playoffs and they struggle with playoff teams. Why? Because playoff teams have defense and have stoppers. Stoppers are Garnett, Duncan, Dampier, Diop, Ming, Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, the whole Detroit defense, even the Lakers play defense.

The Bulls did not have a great center when Jordan was there but Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Grant and even a guard or two was great on defense and then they threw in some big bruising centers to come knock you down. Nash would win a title under Jackson or Avery and with Pat Riley but again playing defense is not fun. It sux and is hard work.

Nash can't dunk the ball and look at his shooting %, amazing. Phx would be nothing without him and yes Diaw, Marion and Amare are good but look at Raja Bell, he goes from a total defense player and you put him with Nash and now he goes to a good offensive player. Nash makes people good to great.

Dirk is great but he is tall and who will the people vote for a big tall guyor short and has a disadvantage? If both have about the same numbers. This is why Lebron won't beat Nash for MVP. Nash is one of the best point guards i have ever seen play basketball. He is smart as they come. Magic was simply great because he was a 7' point guard. Stockton was very good but i'll take Nash over Stockton anyday. Magic is a differ story because no one can stop 7 feet.

You need to go inside Howard and Terry's numbers. These guys are not just some fair players but they border on great themself. Terry is like Nash being calm and he will throw a dagger in your heart and will make winning shots. Nash does also. Jason Terry is very good. Josh Howard is like a Scottie Pippen and Jordan would have not done what he did without Pippen and even Grant. Josh Howard is a star to me now. You need to watch his hustle and his defense and will to win. He will never give up, like Terry. Harris has a shot at being a star and Dirk has good people around him, like Nash but Dirk also has two centers and defensive stoppers.

Phx does not want a defense or a stopper, so they will lose in the playoffs. Dirk is great and we have to have him. We would make the playoffs without him but wouldn't go far. Phx would not make the playoffs without Nash. The most amazing thing with Nash, is he must make that outside shot alot to pull the defense and he does. Then no one would think he could score on Shaq or any center in the league and i have seen him score layups on 3 big men before and no don't ask me how, but he does. I think it is his balance and maybe his balance is the best i have ever seen in any player ever. His legs are strong also.

I agree with you, Dirk has been getting snubbed and will again but Nash is having a better season this year than the last two, plus the coach gives the ball to Nash and says dominate the ball, Nash you be coach and do what you want, so Nash has the say so if he wants to be MVP. It's their style and the ball is always in his hands and Dirk does not domiante the ball like that. Phx can't beat the Bulls in the playoffs either because they play defense.

MVP and winning titles are different. If i had my say so, give me the Tim Duncan and Shaq titles instead of MVP's and Nash and Dirk both are amazing players. It is sad we made Nash have Bradley as a center and if we could have ever had a center with him here playing with Dirk, they would have won a title. Nash won't win a title with Kurt Thomas his center. They are the best regular season team and one of the worst playoff teams.

I have no complaints if Nash or Dirk get MVP because i believe both deserve it. Dirks team is geared for playoffs, like the Spurs and we can win a title and that is when we also get respect.

Umm...

I stopped reading after you said Magic was 7 feet tall..twice. Once, I'll let it slide since you're only 3 inches off, but twice?

Also you're adding in height as a variable in MVP legitimacy... lmao.

[Janett_Reno]

Marion was fair withot Nash and now he is a superstar. Amare is good and maybe a star but with Nash he is a superstar. Raja Bell was a journey man without Nash and now he is as solid as Bruce Bowen and better than Bowen on offense. James Jones was a nothing and now he is pretty good.

Steve Nash makes players into stars and superstars. Marion can't handle the ball to do what Nash does and has to have the ball at the right place and then he becomes a star. Amare is a human dunking machine because of Nash.

Go look at Phx when they had the point guard the Knicks have and everyone thought he was a star. Phx would be terrible with him.

Steve Nash makes people great. Not many players can do that. That doesn't mean he will win a title because he won't without a center. Jason Terry and Josh Howard are our play makers. Dirk is just a great player and a differ kind of player and Dirk has also improved in ast and passing but he will not win MVP this year unless Steve Nash gets hurt.

[fluid.forty.one]

Janett Reno you really don't know anything about basketball do you. Why didn't Nash make Howard a super star? Why did the Mavs get better without him on the team?