Almost in a nutshell why I'm a republican

[Mavdog]

so, when you posted

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Do a search for medications that were developed outside the USA. Discover how many medical technologies were developed outside the USA. You won't find much.

what you intended to say was NOT that america "developed" most of the world's medications (which I've totally disproven), but rather that america is just the best marketers....

okey dokey.

[wmbwinn]

Fluticasone???

Fluticasone is a potent synthetic corticosteroid often prescribed as treatment for asthma and allergic rhinitis.

The related fluticasone propionate is marketed with the brand names Flixotide and Flixonase by Allen & Hanburys, and Flovent, Flonase, and Veramyst by GlaxoSmithKline. GlaxoSmithKline also markets a combination of fluticasone and salmeterol as Advair (US) or Seretide (UK).

It is also used as a cream or ointment for the treatment of eczema and psoriasis (Cutivate UK).


The above is a quick Wikipedia reference again.

Again, the American system is vital in world success.

[wmbwinn]

so, when you posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmbwinn
Do a search for medications that were developed outside the USA. Discover how many medical technologies were developed outside the USA. You won't find much.

what you intended to say was NOT that america "developed" most of the world's medications (which I've totally disproven), but rather that america is just the best marketers....

okey dokey.

___________________________________

What I showed is that many of those medications and companies would have not been available to the world without the USA.

I haven't taken the next jump to show what percent of new medications for the world were discovered/uncovered and promoted and made available by the larger American companies like Pfizer.

I have only addressed the medications and companies you brought up. You presented them as evidence that the field of Medicine would be fine in the world without the power of the American system.

You were trying to argue that the power and profits of American Pharmacy were not necessary. I am showing that your arguement is not correct.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

What I showed is that many of those medications and companies would have not been available to the world without the USA.

???? you are wrong, the companies who discovered the meds clearly are capable of making them available".

I haven't taken the next jump to show what percent of new medications for the world were discovered/uncovered and promoted and made available by the larger American companies like Pfizer.

I have only addressed the medications and companies you brought up. You presented them as evidence that the field of Medicine would be fine in the world without the power of the American system.

You were trying to argue that the power and profits of American Pharmacy were not necessary. I am showing that your arguement is not correct.

actually, all i am "trying to argue" is that your statements were full of crap in claiming that america "discovered" all the world's meds.

successfully argued I should add....

and the multiple links I posted are clear in their fact based conclusions that the extraordinary profit margins of the drug manufacturers are not critical to the r&d of new meds.

[wmbwinn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmbwinn
What I showed is that many of those medications and companies would have not been available to the world without the USA.


???? you are wrong, the companies who discovered the meds clearly are capable of making them available".


Quote:
I haven't taken the next jump to show what percent of new medications for the world were discovered/uncovered and promoted and made available by the larger American companies like Pfizer.

I have only addressed the medications and companies you brought up. You presented them as evidence that the field of Medicine would be fine in the world without the power of the American system.

You were trying to argue that the power and profits of American Pharmacy were not necessary. I am showing that your arguement is not correct.


actually, all i am "trying to argue" is that your statements were full of crap in claiming that america "discovered" all the world's meds.

successfully argued I should add....

and the multiple links I posted are clear in their fact based conclusions that the extraordinary profit margins of the drug manufacturers are not critical to the r&d of new meds.

________________________________________

If a Japanese Company can produce a drug and make it available to the world, then why would they team up with an American company and accept less than all of the profit.
Heck, why would AstraZeneca team up with Procter and Gamble? AstraZeneca is huge compared to Takedo. Of course, AstraZeneca is significantly American in its International structure. But, they still decided they needed Proctor and Gamble.

My point stands. It is difficult to make meds available to the world without harnessing the American system to help you achieve your goals. And, the marketing and administration is a necessary process in business. It is not evil.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I'm guessing wmbwinn is a proctologist, because he sure seems to be pulling a lot of stuff out of his ass.

Thanks for showing wmbwinn YOUR ass.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

jack.kerr seems to be right, you do pull crap out of your ass.

Unfortunate that in this very interesting and informative discussion Mavie has decided to join Jack Kerr in showing his ass.

I'd give you negative rep, but I've given you positive too much in the past.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Unfortunate that in this very interesting and informative discussion Mavie has decided to join Jack Kerr in showing his ass.

I'd give you negative rep, but I've given you positive too much in the past.

gee dude, if you wish to defend the poster feel free to do so. if you can assist in furthering the discussion by contributing some information, please do so.

in fact, he could use the help.....

however, the information he volunteered about the drug industry and how america has discovered all the major drugs in use was shown to be...well, let's just say that it isn't very accurate.

do you believe that tongue in cheek posts like jack.kerr's don't belong? I sure do, they bring a chuckle and some humour to the board, and I would guess that you have done similar in the past when the opportunity presents itself.

am I wrong in that presumption?

[dude1394]

Actually probalby no. Not after a guy had spent pages trying to elaborate where he was getting his data, being extremely congenial about it and with what seems like quite a bit of first hand experience.

Now JanetReno on the other hand, yea.

[Mavdog]

guess it goes to say that "humour is in the eyes of the beholder..."

as for reno, ignore is the best avenue imo. any attempt at humour would be lost and require explanation.....

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Thanks for showing wmbwinn YOUR ass.

My apologies, Madam Hall Monitor, for not clearing my remarks with you beforehand.

Frankly, I believe you're secretly envious that you didn't think to say it first. I will have to hand it to "Dr." Blowhard--at least he does produce original material. (And how!).

[Epitome22]

The Market is a lousy vehicle to provide healthcare to the public. Scrap it, go to single player health care and fund it out of general taxation. Edwards has the best health care plan of all the candidates (not single payer though) but all the Dem candidates have health care plans I can live with. Ideally you would want something like France's healthcare system or Sweden's but just because you want it doesn't mean you'll get it. Anything is better than what we have now though.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Epitome22

The Market is a lousy vehicle to provide healthcare to the public. Scrap it, go to single player health care and fund it out of general taxation. Edwards has the best health care plan of all the candidates (not single payer though) but all the Dem candidates have health care plans I can live with. Ideally you would want something like France's healthcare system or Sweden's but just because you want it doesn't mean you'll get it. Anything is better than what we have now though.

I absolutely totally disagree with this.

[Epitome22]

Sorry to hear that but we'll only be moving more in that direction as time moves on, not away so don't say I didn't warn you.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Epitome22

Sorry to hear that but we'll only be moving more in that direction as time moves on, not away so don't say I didn't warn you.

You may be correct. In my lifetime this country has proven to me that it can be very ignorant as a whole.

[wmbwinn]

It would appear that out of all of the posting done here, that the only issue Mavdog and company have left to argue is the issue that I said that all new medications came from the USA.

I mis-spoke and should have been more careful in my words.

The accurate thing to say is this:

No matter where the medication is created/discovered, the world will not receive the medication unless the USA makes it available. Every example of a medication made/uncovered outside the USA was shown to have been supplied to the world by the USA's strong, profitable pharmacy industry.

As I said earlier, Germany made Einstein. Italy made Enrico Fermi. But, the USA made the Manhantan project.

A British scientist made/uncovered prilosec. He sold out to AstraZeneca as he certainly could not bring his product to the world. AstraZeneca is largely an American company although its earliest roots were European and its headquarters are European. But, even the large AstraZeneca could not bring the world Prilosec. They teamed with Proctor and Gamble to increase its access to the power of the USA to bring the world its meds.

So, can we move past this point? I have already apologized for my mis-step in the past.

It still does not change the fact that the profitability of the pharmacy system is necessary to the world. It still does not change the fact that Medicare drives the cost of the healthcare industry. It still does not change the fact that lawsuits are another substantial force that prevents Mavdog from being able to afford private insurance.

So, argue about something that matters to the true topic of the thread. You have bitten my leg enough, Mavdog and company, for my mis-step. My larger meaning in the statement that the world does not get medications without the USA is still true.

[Mavdog]

yes will, the drug cos must make a profit. they do not tho need to maintain profit margins that produce over 5x the average net of the dow. yes they must invest in r&d, but they can also reduce their marketing/administrative.

but the only issue? the main issue is healthcare insurance, and how to go forward

we don't need to throw our system out, we need to modernize it, how it's provided, how we access the services and they're paid for. the ability to give each citizen healthcare services is real, we just need a system that leverages that capability to everyone's benefit.

you constantly reference medicare, yet the system going forward need not look at all like medicare. for example obama's healthcare plan has nothing at all similar to medicare, it's private insurers.

we need to include every american in the plan, it is the most efficient in funding and risk factors.

lawsuits are a tough issue. yes there have been abuses, but at the same time can one establish a cap on awards that is fair to all those who have been truly harmed?

the answer may be simply to not allow for a jury to make awards.