Jason Kidd - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 06-21-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Look, if Kidd sucks this year then we're screwed. THIS year though. Give the guy a real coach before passing judgement.

The trade is 50/50 right now though. Until we see Harris lifting NJ anywhere this coming year and until we see Kidd fail this coming year, then shhhh.......

Facts are facts and the fact of the matter is, Harris didn't get NJ into the playoffs. Kidd DID get the Mavs into the playoffs. I'm a Harris fan second to being a Mavs fan. That means I root for Kidd over Harris.

You can't un-do the past though. Donnie should absolutely be fired if he doesn't put something worthwhile together this season for a roster.

+rep.

bgarrett · 06-21-2008, 02:03 PM

Word.. Nicely said! Pressure should be on Donnie to do something.

Underdog · 06-21-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Look, if Kidd sucks this year then we're screwed. THIS year though.

Yep, then Kidd comes off the books and we have a sh!t-ton of money to spend on someone else... It's not like this is the last year for Dirk to win a ring - Steve Nash is 4 years older and he's still as much of a threat as he was the last time he won MVP (even though his team is on the decline...)

bgarrett · 06-21-2008, 02:22 PM

I cant wait to see some new names in a mavs jersey!!!

spreedom · 06-21-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, then Kidd comes off the books and we have a sh!t-ton of money to spend on someone else... It's not like this is the last year for Dirk to win a ring - Steve Nash is 4 years older and he's still as much of a threat as he was the last time he won MVP (even though his team is on the decline...)

Will his expiring contract even put us under the cap?

bgarrett · 06-21-2008, 02:34 PM

no

sike · 06-21-2008, 03:16 PM

are you saying the Mavs are 20mil over the cap at present?

dude1394 · 06-21-2008, 03:21 PM

Hoopshype has all of the contract stuff.

http://hoopshype.com/

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm

If Jkidds salary was off next year we'd be at 50M. This year we are at ~80Million.

jthig32 · 06-21-2008, 04:30 PM

Amazingly the Mavs actually are about 25 mil over the cap with eight players on the roster.

BBJONES · 06-21-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

BBJONES!! YOU ARE A STINKIN' GENIUS!!

So true.

LOL, I got rep points, but sadly it shouldn't take a genius to figure this out. 6'7 and basketball center don't mix unless you are wider than the lane.

sike · 06-21-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Amazingly the Mavs actually are about 25 mil over the cap with eight players on the roster.

How is that even possible? Is that not poor GMing from Donnie and ownership from Cuban?

bgarrett · 06-21-2008, 05:54 PM

BAsically, well Poor gming and Cuban should have really looked into letting Donnie go when Big Nellie went... I have a feeling this will be it for Donnie if this year don't work out.

Underdog · 06-21-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

How is that even possible? Is that not poor GMing from Donnie and ownership from Cuban?

Only if Cuban gives a damn about luxury tax...

Plus, who knows if seven of those eight guys will even be on the roster this season?

jthig32 · 06-21-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

How is that even possible? Is that not poor GMing from Donnie and ownership from Cuban?

Well, Kidd makes up over a quarter of our current payroll on his own, and his contract is expiring. If he had 4 years left on that contract then it would be reckless. As it is it's just a short term gamble.

But the reality is, when you have a max player and three or four quality players, all it takes is one bad contract (Damp) to put a team over the cap after only 5 or 6 players.

ShaggyDirk · 06-21-2008, 09:56 PM

GO MAVS~~~

dude1394 · 06-21-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

How is that even possible? Is that not poor GMing from Donnie and ownership from Cuban?

He took a bunch o' dollars on with jkidd. About 5+million I believe.

u2sarajevo · 06-21-2008, 10:52 PM

Is that 25 million including Finley's salary? If not..... wow.

sKen · 06-21-2008, 11:02 PM

Doesn't include Fin...

After the Kidd trade we were pushing 50 million over the cap with Fin, Bradley, DJ and the 12 stiffs we suited up with our big 3. In fact some of the numbers (ShamSports) don't include Lue because he was signed so late.

Dallas added roughly $11 million if you count Harris' current salary at the time of the trade. The 5 million was how much MORE it cost Dallas to add KVH instead of using Stack and George. That doesn't count the extra salary they used to add 2 more players (Magloire & Lue) when the dust settled.

chosen_one8976 · 06-21-2008, 11:38 PM

when kidd comes off the books next season, as it stands we will be below the cap by six mill...50.5 to 57 (the cap)...plus the cap will raise again next season, so unless we spend a ton of money this offseason we will actually be below for next offseason...it increases by an average of 8.5 % a year, so it will be around 62 mil

bgarrett · 06-22-2008, 12:46 AM

My prediction is that we will be OVER...

chosen_one8976 · 06-22-2008, 09:53 AM

the way cubes spends money, we will be

jthig32 · 06-22-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Is that 25 million including Finley's salary? If not..... wow.

Fin is no longer on the books.

Kidd and Dirk together make almost 40 mil. So two players put you about 15 mil under the cap already.

Ninkobei · 06-22-2008, 10:48 AM

the mavs have too many over payed players..they really need to get rid of some contracts. Damp is great, but he's not worth the money he's being payed. Biggest thing I'm worried about w/ Kidd is his knee injury. With him playing olympic superman all summer its just a matter of time before he re-injures it.

sKen · 06-22-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen_one8976

when kidd comes off the books next season, as it stands we will be below the cap by six mill...50.5 to 57 (the cap)...plus the cap will raise again next season, so unless we spend a ton of money this offseason we will actually be below for next offseason...it increases by an average of 8.5 % a year, so it will be around 62 mil

That is not technically correct. Dallas would have to renounce Kidd to get down to about 60 million and only pay the guaranteed portion of Stack's contract, and renounce him, to get to 52 million. That would leave Dallas with 4 players under contract (Dirk, JET, Howard, Damp) and having to place a "roster hold charge" for 8 vacant slots. In '09-10 those charges will be $458k and eat up a touch over $3.6 million. So Dallas would be at/over the current cap with 4 players and the roster holds.

Next summer is not the anticipated date to be under the cap. June of '10 when Damp's contract is no longer guaranteed makes being under the cap a much more fathomable proposition

bcrav4 · 06-22-2008, 11:48 PM

I also think if we are sucking around the trade deadline, it's very possible that Terry will be traded for expirers or short term contracts to a team like Cleveland making a strong playoff push. This could definitely revamp our salary structure, which I'm sure is second only to winning a championship according to the MBT. I agree, Damp's contract will end at the perfect time.

BGMaverick9 · 06-23-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrav4

I also think if we are sucking around the trade deadline, it's very possible that Terry will be traded for expirers or short term contracts to a team like Cleveland making a strong playoff push. This could definitely revamp our salary structure, which I'm sure is second only to winning a championship according to the MBT. I agree, Damp's contract will end at the perfect time.

If we're sucking by the trade deadline, this board will be going ballistic.

bgarrett · 06-23-2008, 09:57 AM

WE Won't be sucking then. The fresh face at coach alone will be enough to revitalize us. Not saying were gonna push for championship but we will be fine!

chosen_one8976 · 06-23-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

WE Won't be sucking then. The fresh face at coach alone will be enough to revitalize us. Not saying were gonna push for championship but we will be fine!

this early in the offseason/season, you never know whats goin to happen...look at boston and LA...we could win the championship or we could miss the playoffs

bgarrett · 06-23-2008, 10:38 AM

Oh yeah, true. But you can mark my post tho. We will be fine...

BGMaverick9 · 06-23-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

Oh yeah, true. But you can mark my post tho. We will be fine...

oh...don't worry, I'm sure someone on this board will have it ready to go. haha

LonghornDub · 06-23-2008, 07:45 PM

I think Kidd's selection to the Olympic team proves that those "in the know" do not consider him to be anywhere near "done," despite the claims of many Mavericks potbangers.

dirno2000 · 06-23-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I think Kidd's selection to the Olympic team proves that those "in the know" do not consider him to be anywhere near "done," despite the claims of many Mavericks potbangers.

I don't think it means that at all. The needs of the US team are different than those of the the Mavs. When you get past Kidd every player on team USA is a scorer. He could help the team win without taking a shot. It's hard to imagine a scenario where that would be true in a real NBA game.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-23-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I think Kidd's selection to the Olympic team proves that those "in the know" do not consider him to be anywhere near "done," despite the claims of many Mavericks potbangers.

Plus I like that this will force him to stay in shape. We need a good start out of the gates this season.

BGMaverick9 · 06-23-2008, 08:24 PM

I don't think I would say that...

Kidd has never been considered a slouch, not coming in out of shape or two or three steps behind the rest. Maybe it helps him get into a groove early in the season. I highly doubt much is going to be expected that will put a strain on him for the Olympics. Just manage the team, he won't have to score very much.

LonghornDub · 06-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't think it means that at all. The needs of the US team are different than those of the the Mavs. When you get past Kidd every player on team USA is a scorer. He could help the team win without taking a shot. It's hard to imagine a scenario where that would be true in a real NBA game.

I'm not sure you really addressed my point, as that has nothing to do with whether or not he's "done." Unless you think Colangelo and crew are incapable of picking good players.

chosen_one8976 · 06-23-2008, 09:41 PM

hes still the best passer and one of the better rebounding guards in the league, hes a couple of steps slow, but that wont matter when you have kobe, lbj, prince, and howard behind him in the olympics. the only time he'll have to take a shot is in transition is when hes all alone for a layup...its a different story when hes playin for the mavs though

LonghornDub · 06-23-2008, 09:47 PM

Kidd's shooting is fine. The dude was like 47% from 3 once he got here. What is not to like about that?

It sure is some twisted logic to imply that the USA Olympic team's standard is actually lower than that of the Mavs.

jthig32 · 06-23-2008, 09:57 PM

I don't agree with Dirno's view of Kidd, but his point about Kidd not needing to score on team USA is 100% valid. He could play for Team USA until he's 40 if he wanted to, because he won't be able to break anyone down anymore, but he'll still be able to run an offense and see the floor.

Also, in reality, the talent level to BE on Team USA is certainly higher than to be in the NBA. However, the talent level of teams Team USA plays against is significantly lower than your average NBA team (for the most part) so someone like Kidd can hide defensively if need be.

dirno2000 · 06-23-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I'm not sure you really addressed my point, as that has nothing to do with whether or not he's "done." Unless you think Colangelo and crew are incapable of picking good players.

It depends on what you mean by done. I said after the San Antonio game that I thought he was done but I didn't mean Gary Payton in Miami done. I meant done as a superstar (and maybe ever a star) who could help Dirk carry the team. He'll be a usable player for the next three or four years and maybe longer.

His inclusion on the team Olympic team just means that he has a skill that the team needs. It doesn't mean that he's one of the top 3 American PG's anymore than Michael Redd's inclusion means that he's a top 3 SG.

He's still one of my all time favorite Mavs so I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a dominant player in Carlisle's new offense.

dirno2000 · 06-23-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Kidd's shooting is fine. The dude was like 47% from 3 once he got here. What is not to like about that?

Nothing at all. The problem is, that's probably not sustainable. He needs to be more aggressive about getting in the paint and actually shooting when he gets there. And when we post him up and the double doesn't come he needs to look to score. He also has to make a higher percentage of his layups.

Quote:

It sure is some twisted logic to imply that the USA Olympic team's standard is actually lower than that of the Mavs.

Not lower, different. Again, if we had a scorer at every position I wouldn't care if he never shot the ball.