Cuban and Mavs players talk about Devin - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

rabbitproof · 12-17-2008, 04:18 AM

They say your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness so Cuban will never admit wrong.

The logic behind the move was/is sound. The question is was that the best option (though the reasoning behind it makes sense)? Devin was our best young player and we gave up quite a bit (outside of Devin). If our window is shut/closing, wouldn't you want to hang onto the younger talents and options? I know it was a home run swing, even if some people don't want to put that kind of test on it (championship or bust), so you're kind of saying "eff the future" but you have to wonder if that really was the best move for the franchise.

The final judgment on this trade (beside how we finish this year) is what we do with Kidd's cap space.

Stack is such a heady guy. I hope we get something nice for him but also that he gets back to balling soon. Cool cat.

dude1394 · 12-17-2008, 06:56 AM

SSDD

LSMF · 12-17-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The Kidd trade f**king sucked. Honestly, Cubes has made some dumb decisions since buying the team, but this one I think tops the list. I sincerely believe that the trade is singlehandedly responsible for the Mavs not being title contenders anymore.

Sometimes I feel the same way about this trade, I love Kidd and all but this trade was pretty terrible imo. There are alot of people who know in their mind this trade was bad but still defend it, I wonder what these same people will say if Kidd decides to sign to another team next year.

jthig32 · 12-17-2008, 09:16 AM

I can't believe I'm going to have to endure several more years of this topic.

*sigh*

BTW, people that were on board with the trade when it happened should probably be careful about how much venom they put in their criticisms of the team. Just my opinion.

SMC0007 · 12-17-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I can't believe I'm going to have to endure several more years of this topic.

*sigh*

BTW, people that were on board with the trade when it happened should probably be careful about how much venom they put in their criticisms of the team. Just my opinion.

Might as well get used to it, or not click in and read because the better he gets the more it will come up.

AxdemxO · 12-17-2008, 11:35 AM

KIDD

KIDD

BGMaverick9 · 12-17-2008, 01:48 PM

I don't get how people are magically going to assume defending their side of the argument is going to instantly win over the other side. It's an argument that will not have one side of it be the winning side. The argument is pretty pointless.

The long term effects of the deal won't be felt for at least another 2-3 years, at least. For the now...I like what we have at PG. What ty said is what I believe...maybe not as bluntly as he said it, haha, but the main point I believe in.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-17-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

Devin isn't on the Mavericks anymore.

He can go screw himself for all I care.

I'm not a 2007 Mavericks fan. I'm a Mavericks fan.

I'm not a 2007 Mavericks fan either. The 2007 Mavericks lost in the first round. But as a Mavericks fan, I get really pissed off anytime we take a step backward. We had an opportunity to win a championship, and thanks in no small part to the Kidd trade, that opportunity is gone. I'm pissed about it.

BGMaverick9 · 12-17-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm not a 2007 Mavericks fan either. The 2007 Mavericks lost in the first round. But as a Mavericks fan, I get really pissed off anytime we take a step backward. We had an opportunity to win a championship, and thanks in no small part to the Kidd trade, that opportunity is gone. I'm pissed about it.

I didn't see a legit, inconclusive reason to suggest we were on the right path to go forward before the deal...especially if mainly all the same pieces were together. We were waiting for the same lineup to just mesh and gel and where was that getting us? Change was necessary. I'll give the Dallas FO and the Phoenix FO a ton of credit for having the stones to realize they weren't getting anywhere with what they had and they made big trades. Neither of them have made for quick fixes and that's for different reasons for both sides, but they had the guts to make an effort to change the direction to the was on or headed.

To me, I still think more change is necessary, but I don't think it necessarily has to be as radical of a change, subtle moves could be made. In the first instance though (Devin/Kidd deal) a substantial one was necessary to rattle the cage and pump fresh new life into the squad.

jthig32 · 12-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm not a 2007 Mavericks fan either. The 2007 Mavericks lost in the first round. But as a Mavericks fan, I get really pissed off anytime we take a step backward. We had an opportunity to win a championship, and thanks in no small part to the Kidd trade, that opportunity is gone. I'm pissed about it.

After the trade happened you were saying the current core was never gonig to win, so it was worth the risk.

Tokey41 · 12-17-2008, 07:22 PM

If you need a new transmission for your car you don't go out and get new tires when the ones you have are still perfectly good.

Translation: We needed a two guard and some low post scoring, Kidd provides NEITHER of those things. What does he provide? Ball movement, veteran leadership, etc. but you know what? I'd take my two guard and low post scoring over that. The trade didn't give us what we need, and we still don't have either of those things! It's reasonable to be upset, especially since it hasn't even been a year yet.

tomly · 12-17-2008, 07:29 PM

The more I see Devin on highlight clips the more I hate Avery. A melding of the minds on this board could make better decisions,basketball wise than Mark, I am a genius , Cuban!

Dtownsfinest · 12-17-2008, 08:03 PM

Fans are still trying justify this horrible trade. Mavs didn't just trade Devin. They traded away two 1st round picks and basically their mid-level exception which could've been used for Matt Barnes, Roger Mason or James Posey. Mavs got screwed. Its fine. We can't take it back. Stuff like this happens. There's is absolutely no proof that Devin wouldn't have been this good in a Mavs uniform and there's also no proof he would've been.

basketballgirl25 · 12-17-2008, 10:07 PM

I think Devin will be more fired up Friday after the loss tonight

SMC0007 · 12-17-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Fans are still trying justify this horrible trade. Mavs didn't just trade Devin. They traded away two 1st round picks and basically their mid-level exception which could've been used for Matt Barnes, Roger Mason or James Posey. Mavs got screwed. Its fine. We can't take it back. Stuff like this happens. There's is absolutely no proof that Devin wouldn't have been this good in a Mavs uniform and there's also no proof he would've been.

dude1394 · 12-17-2008, 11:38 PM

SSDD

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

After the trade happened you were saying the current core was never gonig to win, so it was worth the risk.

I'm not saying a change wasn't needed. I'm saying that was the wrong change to make. In that respect, I don't think trading a 24 year old guy for a 34 year old guy was worth the risk.

Edit: Let me also add that for the brief time that I actually was optimistic about the trade, the reason I felt that way (other than a delirious state of mind) was that I assumed that the Mavericks were not done dealing. I just thought it was common sense that they would try to make a big splash in the offseason. I figured that in the end we'd be getting Jason Kidd along with Maggette, Miller, Redd, Artest etc.... THAT might've been worth losing Devin Harris. If I had known that our biggest offseason acquisition would be Gerald Green or Shawne Williams, or using the entire MLE to get back Diop. I probably would never have stopped bitching. Let's also not forget that including Diop in the trade was pure stupidity when all that was needed was to throw some more money at KVH. What was the logic at the time? Wasn't something like "Diop isn't playing here. We're not using him, so we might as well get rid of him." We weren't using him because Avery insisted on the small lineup. Another piece of damning evidence to throw on the gigantic pile that proves Avery is a moron. I don't know what else we could've gotten with the MLE, but I guarantee at the very least we could've gotten a young player that we probably would be using a hell of a lot more than Shawne Williams or James Singleton or any of these other no-names our so-called "youth movement" is comprised of.

Yet another reason I gave the trade a chance was that I had not regularly watched Kidd in years and didn't realize how much speed he had lost. When we made the trade, I thought he could still get into the lane and create. Pure ignorance on my part. If I had known how much slower he really was, I probably wouldn't have been so forgiving. Who knows, maybe Cuban and Donnie made the same mistake.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2008, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I didn't see a legit, inconclusive reason to suggest we were on the right path to go forward before the deal...especially if mainly all the same pieces were together. We were waiting for the same lineup to just mesh and gel and where was that getting us? Change was necessary. I'll give the Dallas FO and the Phoenix FO a ton of credit for having the stones to realize they weren't getting anywhere with what they had and they made big trades. Neither of them have made for quick fixes and that's for different reasons for both sides, but they had the guts to make an effort to change the direction to the was on or headed.

I never once said that the Mavs should just stand pat. Yes, change was necessary. We needed a friggin shooting guard. And surprise surprise, we still need one. You commend the Dallas FO for having the "stones" to trade our best young player? (Yes, Devin had surpassed Howard by that point) To me that moved reeked of panic and desperation. Cuban could've shown that he had "stones" by firing Avery's ass after Golden State. Now everyone agrees that it was a no-brainer, but if Avery had lost his job in May of 07, it would've been very controversial and probably unpopular. That would've impressed me. Let me say for the record that I firmly believe that last year's roster was actually better than the ones that won so many games the previous two years (before the trade of course.) I blame last year's debacle squarely on Avery.

And please let's not put the Kidd trade and the Marion/Shaq trade in the same light. The Suns were going to lose Marion no matter what. They HAD to do something. They could either let him walk, or get something back for him, so they made a move.

Quote:

In the first instance though (Devin/Kidd deal) a substantial one was necessary to rattle the cage and pump fresh new life into the squad.

Yeah, substantial change was needed. Getting rid of Avery from the start would've been more than enough to "pump fresh new life into the squad." Bottom line, you don't trade your second best player (again, I believed then and I believe now that Devin is a better player than Howard) just for the sake of rattling the cage. Particularly so when you're trading for a guy who's a decade older than the guy you're losing, not to mention over-paying to do it.

And I couldn't disagree with you more about only needing "subtle" changes. If these guys honestly hope to win a championship with Dirk Nowitzki, a MAJOR upgrade is needed in the 2 or 5 spots. But then again, that's been the case for several years now. Otherwise, they're just wasting Dirk's career and might as well trade him to a contender where he can have another shot at a championship.

Re-Dirk-ulous · 12-18-2008, 05:28 AM

what about the Dirk for Kobe trade. Would that have been worth the risk?

Let's hear the truth! Nobody was gonna win it all After the ridiculously absurd Boston/L.A. trades. Even Popovich "poped off" and publicly criticized the LA trade. The Devin Trade was just an impulse trade. A trade for the sake of a trade.

Back then we were able to beat any NBA team; the only teams giving us any real trouble were the Suns and Spurs (Yeah, we always had problems with the Lakers [not counting the 06-07 season], but they were easily dispatched early in the playoffs anyway, if they made it)
Besides LA/Bos, LeBron and the Cavs are exceptionally better, Hornets and Jazz are on a meteoric rise, Denver and Portland are making a run, Orlando is adding into the mix, etc... If we were to win a Championship, it would have been in those past few years

Aside from the trade for the sake of a trade, and as I stated in my other post, I truly believe the main reason Kidd was brought here was to have a true leader (especially in crunch time), in which Dirk didn't feel confortable with that role at the time.

ghazi · 12-18-2008, 06:38 AM

GOD DAMMIT GUYS QUIT DEPRESSING ME

MAVS ARE WINNIN IT THIS YEAR K? K

DAMN BENNETT SALVATORES WHISTLE

Someone give me a HELL yea!

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

GOD DAMMIT GUYS QUIT DEPRESSING ME

MAVS ARE WINNIN IT THIS YEAR K? K

DAMN BENNETT SALVATORES WHISTLE

Someone give me a HELL yea!

Mavs aren't winning it, Celtics are winning it all, as much I don't want them to it's true

Underdog · 12-18-2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

Mavs aren't winning it, Celtics are winning it all, as much I don't want them to it's true

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

look at the teams, do you think mavs could even beat the Celtics, as of right now they don't stand a chance, just like every othe team except maybe the Lakers

dirno2000 · 12-18-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Let's also not forget that including Diop in the trade was pure stupidity when all that was needed was to throw some more money at KVH. What was the logic at the time? Wasn't something like "Diop isn't playing here. We're not using him, so we might as well get rid of him." We weren't using him because Avery insisted on the small lineup. Another piece of damning evidence to throw on the gigantic pile that proves Avery is a moron.

How does that prove Avery is a moran when 1) according to Fish Avery was the one that didn't want to include Diop in the trade and 2) Diop is player fewer minutes per game than he did under Avery and Bass is about the same?

I agree that he should have never been in the trade in the first place. New Jersey didn't need him. That's my big criticism of the organization. It's not that thay made the trade but that they got bent over in the execution. We were already trading young for old, there was no reason for us to sweeten the deal the way we did. That killed any realistic chance of improving the team around Kidd.

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 11:50 AM

for anyone watching the game tomorrow, don't be suprised if the see a half empty arena, there is a snow storm coming so there might to less people there then other games.

alby · 12-18-2008, 12:48 PM

newsflash

No one watches the Nets.

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

newsflash

No one watches the Nets.

newsflash

you watch the mavs and they play the Nets tomorrow

so if you see to mavs tomorrow which I'm guessing you will you'll see a more empty arena then usual

alby · 12-18-2008, 12:56 PM

"so if you see to mavs tomorrow which I'm guessing you will you'll see a more empty arena then usual"

epic fail on all accounts.

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

"so if you see to mavs tomorrow which I'm guessing you will you'll see a more empty arena then usual"

epic fail on all accounts.

why because your not watching the mavs tomorrow?

DirkFTW · 12-18-2008, 02:03 PM

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Dtownsfinest · 12-18-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

Ouch.............

SMC0007 · 12-18-2008, 03:01 PM

Burn..But totally out of context/ 12 mil cheaper for a short period of time.

DirkFTW · 12-18-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

non sequitur

SMC0007 · 12-18-2008, 03:12 PM

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

great picture I hate the Mets

BGMaverick9 · 12-18-2008, 06:22 PM

Where do you guys find half of these pictures? Seriously...they are always hilarious!

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 10:49 PM

some good articles you all might enjoy since they are about Kidd and Harris
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200..._makes_it.html
http://thenetsinsider.mlblogs.com/ar...igal_kidd.html
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200...10_months.html
http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/12/no-5-is-back.html

Caseman · 12-18-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

some good articles you all might enjoy since they are about Kidd and Harris
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200..._makes_it.html
http://thenetsinsider.mlblogs.com/ar...igal_kidd.html
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200...10_months.html
http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/12/no-5-is-back.html

Have you considered posting these in a Nets forum?

basketballgirl25 · 12-18-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Have you considered posting these in a Nets forum?

I did thanks for suggesting that though, and they are mostly about Kidd, so they should go on these boards, and didn't want to make a new thread