3-2: lol FT... - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dirno2000 · 11-05-2009, 01:49 AM

I hated Carlisle's call with 6 second left. We ran a play that called for Kidd to make a pass from the top of the key to Terry on the baseline. That's a very tough angle, especially when the other team knows where you're going with the ball. He should have put the ball in Terry's hands from the start. Worse comes to worse we have our hottest player shooing a 3 for the win.

A few months from now when people start bitching about Josh only scoring in the 1st quarter (like those points count for half) I'll bring up this stretch of games. Feels like we've struggled to score in the first quarter of every game this year.

I don't know what Marion is going through but he's killing us. I don't ever remember seeing him play worse than he played tonight. The highlight was when he blew a 3 on1 fast break by ignoring Dirk and shooting a tough floater over Peja.

mac222b · 11-05-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Um, he was shooting 29% coming into tonight. And 38% for his career. He's a scrub.

haha, ok you win. but i'm still picking him up for my fantasy squadhttp://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

mac222b · 11-05-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I hated Carlisle's call with 6 second left. We ran a play that called for Kidd to make a pass from the top of the key to Terry on the baseline. That's a very tough angle, especially when the other team knows where you're going with the ball. He should have put the ball in Terry's hands from the start. Worse comes to worse we have our hottest player shooing a 3 for the win.

A few months from now when people start bitching about Josh only scoring in the 1st quarter (like those points count for half) I'll bring up this stretch of games. Feels like we've struggled to score in the first quarter of every game this year.

I don't know what Marion is going through but he's killing us. I don't ever remember seeing him play worse than he played tonight. The highlight was when he blew a 3 on1 fast break by ignoring Dirk and shooting a tough floater over Peja.

agree with all of this. except i don't think marion is killing us. he's had his moments. still getting his wind back on a back to back. he'll start making some of those chippies

dude1394 · 11-05-2009, 02:04 AM

Marion is working hard defensively, but he's been a turnover machine offensively.

dirno2000 · 11-05-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

agree with all of this. except i don't think marion is killing us. he's had his moments. still getting his wind back on a back to back. he'll start making some of those chippies

I'm just talking about the past two games...he's been pretty bad.

RoddyB#3 · 11-05-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Marion is working hard defensively, but he's been a turnover machine offensively.

Once Josh gets back, Marion will get less touches. Most of his touches will then come off easy stuff around the basket. Right now the offense is relying on him too much to get his own shot when that is not his game. Josh will allow Marion to roam a bit more and get those easy attempts when the floor is spread.

twelli · 11-05-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

I know most of the board has been singing praises of Marion since the season began...

I was kind of disturbed when, on a 3-on-1 fast break, Marion didn't pass the ball back to a trailing Dirk for the easy dunk, instead he tried a difficult contested shot that was blocked.

Don't want to read too much into it but it could mean that 1. he wants to score more. 2. he doesn't like to share the ball. 3. his basketball IQ is low

Maybe Kidd should throw him some more lob passes to keep him happy and jumping...

Overall, they didn't play that bad considering the circumstances. One more made free throw and everyone is happy. Hubie Brown called the Mav's defense good on several occasions. If they keep playing defense like they have in the past three games, I think we'll have much fun this season.

The good thing about this loss it that it prevents the team from getting too confident too soon, though I wouldn't mind a lengthy winning streak starting soon. We didn't have that for some time now.

cinemablend · 11-05-2009, 05:19 AM

I don't think you can take much away from this game really.

But... what is up with Marion? It seems like he gets worse and worse every game. At least against Utah he was a defensive presence, tonight he didn't even have that. The guy looked like he had the Swine Flu or something.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-05-2009, 06:04 AM

Marion definitely has to still be hurting from the Calf. His facial/body expressions show a guy that is holding back something. He doesn't have that confident, quick step like he did in the preseason. -23, yikes.

As for JJB, for every good thing he does, he seems to follow it up with a boneheaded play like the jacked up three. He needs to stop forcing the issue and just accept his limitations. I'm going to be happy when Roddy starts taking more and more minutes away from him.

I think this was a moral victory, but the big negative/achilles heel about tonight's game is the fact that the Mavs can't stop opposing pgs.

Oh and Dampier...where have you been all my life? Keep it up. Better late then never.

SeriousSummer · 11-05-2009, 09:00 AM

About JJB--Carlisle has to play somebody to make up five players. What have we got for shooting guard and small forward right now?

Marion
Terry
JJB
Beaubois
Carroll

Carroll is sparinng it up and Marion has to rest sometimes, especially since he's not yet in game condition--as does Kidd, which means another place a little guy has to play.

No Howard, Ross or Thomas means the Mavs either go with Carroll, or play a lot of very small three guard line ups. Wait until Carlisle has a choice before criticizing him for his line up choices.

If you don't play Carroll, and keep Marion and Kidd at 30 and 36 minutes where they should be, that leaves 78 minutes to split among JJ, Terry and Beaubois. No matter how you do it, you're going to end up with almost a half game of midget ball.

Dirkenstien · 11-05-2009, 09:25 AM

Robo looked like the best player on the court in the starting minutes. He pretty much got anywhere he wanted when he wanted. Carlisle pulled him and he didn't see any more PT until the second half. Why? He wasn't in foul trouble. Leave the kid in and let him get some experience.

I'm looking forward to getting a healthy team back on the court.

Sportstudi · 11-05-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

1. Erik Dampier is playing like it is a contract year, too bad he didn't play like this for the last 4 years.

2. Free throws would have won this game.

3. I am sick of seeing this much J.J.

4. Marion? I am ready to see some of that preseason game, not this, "I can't handle a pass near my knees".

5. Am I the only one ready to see Josh Howard????

Exactly this.

Lor20 · 11-05-2009, 09:43 AM

I too would have liked to see some more beaubois - even though he was getting killed by the screens in the second half (he kept running into them and losing contact to CP3).

I agree on the whole injury issue

we have 144 minutes to give on 1,2 and 3 for
Kidd (old so shouldnt see more than 30-35 minutes)
Terry (35 minutes)
Marion (30-35 minutes)

that leaves around 40-50 minutes for JJB and beaubois/carroll.
With gooden out damp's replacement is humphries, so humphries cant go to the 4 so singleton moves to replacing dirk at the 4 and cant replace marion on the 3...
We only have 1 (good) SF right now... So you can't really get around playing 3 guard lineups for 10-15 minutes a game unless you prefer a lineup of
Kidd
Terry
Singleton
Humphries
Dirk

Bottom line - if we get healthy our rotations will look very different.

Murphy3 · 11-05-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

I know most of the board has been singing praises of Marion since the season began, and I'm as high on what I think he can bring us as anyone, but he's been a bit disappointing to me. Defensively he's done some great things, but offensively, he sure seems to miss a lot of easy shots and has awful handles (Exhibit A: 5 TO tonight). What bothers me about him more than anything is that we seem to have long stretches where he doesn't touch the ball, and if there's one thing that Laker game showed me, it's that the JKidd/Matrix pick & roll is a dangerous weapon. Again. Big Marion fan, not hating, but there's certainly some work to be done integrating him.

Dampier had the game of his life tonight, and he's having a terrific season. A lot of it was because the Hornets big men left him open repeatedly, but he certainly worked for plenty of those 14 boards, and he had a couple nice dunks as well, really an intimidator out there tonight, especially with the 3 blocks. I'm happy for the big fella. Of course, at this rate, his contract is going to end up becoming guaranteed for next year, but that's a problem we can worry about later.

Dirk's 20 point streak comes to an end, and I doubt anyone disagrees that his off-night is totally forgivable after last night. We certainly would have had a chance in OT with him on the floor, but after Peja hit the three and with Dirk on the bench for the rest of the way, I think we all knew it was over.

Boobie sighting! Surprise starter tonight, and did surprisingly well. Didn't force the issue much except for that one three he missed. Had a nice pass for an open three and showed flashes of the incredible speed and range we know he has. 9 points and an assist in his first 13 minutes of the season. I'll take it.

JET finally found his shot and had a monster fourth...until it counted and he choked at the line. I think we can all agree JET's as clutch as they come typically, but he certainly has a nasty habit of missing pressure free throws.

Honestly, I thought JJB did some nice things tonight. I mean, he took his typical stupid JJB shots, but he did about as well on Paul as I could have expected anyone on our team to do (and Barea's height disadvantage is kind of negated against Paul; CP3's not a big guy by any stretch). Of course, then other events that I'm not going to discuss took place that are going to blossom into a board-wide "Trade Barea" campaign by tomorrow. It is what it is.

Again. Some bright spots. Damp's off to a terrific start to the season. Roddy did some nice things. JET's being JET again. Kidd showed last night was no fluke and was draining 3's again. And all that added up to the game being 100% in our hands...

EDIT: And MAN, has the injury bug bitten us. Good thing we're as deep as we are, but Gooden, Ross, and especially Howard need to hurry their asses back into the lineup.

Marion is a guy that thrives off of cutting to the bucket without the ball... getting put backs.. and finishing on the fast break. He's not really a second option. He's probably best when he's only counted on to do the clean up things and the cutting. But he does those things extremely well. He does them about as well as anyone. That is what he is. He can hit the occasional jumper, but the Mavs really shouldn't want him to take many of those. The Mavs need their second scorer back. Marion needs to be pushed down a rung on the offensive scale. There's no reason for that guy to be the second option on the court. That just isn't his game.

AO41 · 11-05-2009, 11:55 AM

Althouhg we shuld have won, I feel god about that game.

I wish we ould have won though because I think it def. would have helped Damp....and would have been nice for Jet to see a W up there.

purplefrog · 11-05-2009, 12:29 PM

The checks against the Mavs winning this game were overwhelming even before the tip off. Emotional win over the Jazz the night before, playing a back-to-back, three or four rotation players injured, Hornets ticked off because they had lost two straight, playing in NO, etc. Then Dirk fouls out in the fourth... It's amazing the game came down to missed free throws at the end of regulation imo.

As far as Barea is concerned, I can't help but remember how many games his offensive spark helped the Mavs last season. So when you are already without JHO, Gooden, Dirk (after he fouled out) and even Tim Thomas to help score some points how can you fault Carlisle for playing JJB?

Bring on the Raptors!!!

SMC0007 · 11-05-2009, 12:42 PM

Great game by Damp!

Good game by Jet!

All the bitchin about JJB missing the FT's and blowing the game for us. What about Jet missing 2 of his last 3 FT's? He stepped up to the technical FT and choked. All we had to do was hit 1 of 3. I would have let JJb take all 3 shots (tech included) because the odds of him missing all 3 imo were very small, kinda like playing the same lotto numbers over and over. Let him get into a rythm and ice the game.

That game was over and justice was about to be served. Why any of their players that are a threat behind the arc were remotely open for a 3 is beyond me... which was the only thing that could have tied the game. No one should have even been worried about anything else.

Oh well, it sucked to see the good guys fall but we fought pretty hard while obviously missing pieces that may have won that game.

mmmfast · 11-05-2009, 01:15 PM

Does anyone else flat out hate everything about NO and all associated with that franchise?
I get bile every time we play them.

Not much that has not already been said here.

Marion had a terrible game, he looks like Damp trying to catch passes in the post.
Nowitzki with an off night but the foul out was atrocious.
JJB down the stretch...

This team is on an upswing but I hate always having to give NO our lunch.

Murphy3 · 11-05-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

The checks against the Mavs winning this game were overwhelming even before the tip off. Emotional win over the Jazz the night before, playing a back-to-back, three or four rotation players injured, Hornets ticked off because they had lost two straight, playing in NO, etc. Then Dirk fouls out in the fourth... It's amazing the game came down to missed free throws at the end of regulation imo.

As far as Barea is concerned, I can't help but remember how many games his offensive spark helped the Mavs last season. So when you are already without JHO, Gooden, Dirk (after he fouled out) and even Tim Thomas to help score some points how can you fault Carlisle for playing JJB?

Bring on the Raptors!!!

Yep, at the very least, it would have been great to have Dirk in there taking that Technical FT.

LonghornDub · 11-05-2009, 03:35 PM

As far as I'm concerned, this game (and our win over the Lakers) indicates that this team is ready to make some noise this year. And I mean serious noise. The Hornets aren't elite, but they have been one of the worst matchups for the Mavs since CP3 got there, and we almost handled them despite missing 3-4 rotation players and Dirk in crunch time.

That said, I have a lot of trouble watching the Mavs choke away a lead at the end of a game, probably because of certain past situations.

jcm28 · 11-05-2009, 03:51 PM

Come on guys, we can't be all pesimistic every time we lose a darn game. Yes, it's a tough loss to swallow and yes, the game should've been ours, but we got to look at the good things too. Like someone posted earlier, marion played horrible, jjb player horrible, dirk didnt have a good game and we didn't have him in overtime, howard, ross, and gooden are injured, kidd is getting sloppy, refs were horrible etc.. but we still should've won the game. Lets just look the the positives for once.

mmmfast · 11-05-2009, 03:59 PM

The problem is games like this given to a division rival can set them on a win streak, that hurts us down the road.
I know it's a long season but they cannot give away games that are clearly in hand by another lat game collapse.

You see the pessimism here because we have all seen the Mavs do it repeatedly in the past.

jcm28 · 11-05-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmfast

The problem is games like this given to a division rival can set them on a win streak, that hurts us down the road.
I know it's a long season but they cannot give away games that are clearly in hand by another lat game collapse.

You see the pessimism here because we have all seen the Mavs do it repeatedly in the past.

Well, lets just hope they stop doing it once they come on saturday with Dirk and everyone full-rested. The hornets aint aspiring for anything meaningful this season anyways, so I bet we will be laughing longer than they will once the season ends.

DavidDaMonkey · 11-05-2009, 04:24 PM

My biggest question mark for this game was why Roddy didn't get more minutes. I didn't actually see the first half, but from what I understand, he played very well in the limited minutes he started, and only had one foul I think. I get that he's a major rook, but if we are so riddled with injuries and if he seems to be doing the right things, why not try him out a little longer? All I can tell is that he was benched simply because he's not a regular rotation player. So what? If it works, go for it.

SMC0007 · 11-05-2009, 04:24 PM

1) The refs were ok last night. We got a lot of questionable calls our way!

2) The Hornets are aspiring for the exact same thing we are.

3) F the Hornets

4)

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-05-2009, 04:35 PM

Screwed up a damn quote that I totally wish Carlisle had actually said.

LSMF · 11-05-2009, 04:56 PM

I have had some time to think about this game:

1. I can't wait for J-ho to get back.
2. Roddy should get more minutes, and Barea should get less. And Im not saying this because Barea choked at the FT line, Im saying this because Roddy seems to be able to get anywhere on the floor he wants. He's Rondo-esque imho.
3. The Hornets are my most hated team in the league, which is why I can't stand to see us lose to them. But I know in a few weeks the Hornets won't be able to F*ck with us.
4. I hope the Mavs get some rest and get ready for sunday. Hopefully Josh returns in that game.

LSMF · 11-05-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Great Carlisle quote from db.com...

“Geez, I cannot believe those three blind mice blew their whistle on a moving-screen call because Dirk’s jersey brushed up against Chris Paul’s pants leg.’’

Did Emperor Stern really allow Carlislie to get away with this comment?! Usually Stern jumps at any chance he gets to fine or suspend anyone from the Dallas Mavericks organization.

badfish22 · 11-05-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Did Emperor Stern really allow Carlislie to get away with this comment?! Usually Stern jumps at any chance he gets to fine or suspend anyone from the Dallas Mavericks organization.

No that quote was from Fisher. The donut went like this
“Dirk fouling out was a very difficult break for us,’’ said coach Rick Carlisle, which is the NBA-coach-who-doesn’t-want-to-get-fined way of saying, “Geez, I cannot believe those three blind mice blew their whistle on a moving-screen call because Dirk’s jersey brushed up against Chris Paul’s pants leg.’’

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-05-2009, 05:18 PM

My bad, misread it.

LSMF · 11-05-2009, 05:31 PM

Folks, Espn actually showed us some love: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4626035

NYMAVGUY · 11-05-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

3 more years of Jason Kidd's increasingly senile game. should have traded him when we had the chance. he's scared to take a layup. one was a brick and the other barely grazed rim. and got picked on Peja's tying three. and there were other less than stellar moments. tough start to the season for him

I Agree

NYMAVGUY · 11-05-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just wanted to point out that out of all that happened in that endgame, Thiggy is the only one who remarked what a big play it was that we gave up the easy layup so defenselessly when we were up five in the last minute. Guys, that is EXACTLY what happened against Wade in the Finals. Good call, Thiggy.

And apart from that, no one at all has yet to comment on the turnover we made when we inbounded the ball with 6-some-odd seconds left in a tie game. No mention of that at all! We didn't even get a shot off!

I can only hope that you are channeling anger toward your least favorite players because it is therapeutic. Because you sure aren't making a lot of good sense.

I Agree. I see why you are the Guru.

NYMAVGUY · 11-05-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

For the love of God, this isn't the game to be trashing Kidd.

I don't Know. Just because Kidd didn't Blow the end of the game, doesn't mean he wasn't inept. When you miss lay ups in the 2nd quarter it puts pressure on Dirk to defend harder and now he's in foul trouble. I really do think our point guard play is what kills us.

mac222b · 11-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmfast

The problem is games like this given to a division rival can set them on a win streak, that hurts us down the road.
I know it's a long season but they cannot give away games that are clearly in hand by another lat game collapse.

You see the pessimism here because we have all seen the Mavs do it repeatedly in the past.

i was thinking the same lying in bed last night- got the division rival down, Paul frustrated and on the verge of implosion and we let them get a little momentum. i agree there is alot to like(esp. defensively)but it's just as easy to spin this as negative as positive. and whoever asked above, yes it's hard not to hate N.O. as West and Paul are such little bitches. always complaining. Paul supposed to be a good guy off the court i guess but i think he suffers from what ails guys like Kobe, J.R. Smith, Akon, Tupac. worried about "street cred" and getting respect cause they're really actually from good homes. it's kind of cute in a way. Paul charging into the Celtics locker room demanding that Rondo "respect me as a man". a short-man complex man apparently

LSMF · 11-05-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

i was thinking the same lying in bed last night- got the division rival down, Paul frustrated and on the verge of implosion and we let them get a little momentum. i agree there is alot to like(esp. defensively)but it's just as easy to spin this as negative as positive. and whoever asked above, yes it's hard not to hate N.O. as West and Paul are such little bitches. always complaining. Paul supposed to be a good guy off the court i guess but i think he suffers from what ails guys like Kobe, J.R. Smith, Akon, Tupac. worried about "street cred" and getting respect cause they're really actually from good homes. it's kind of cute in a way. Paul charging into the Celtics locker room demanding that Rondo "respect me as a man". a short-man complex man apparently

This. One reason I was particularly frustrated with this loss was because I could see the defeat in Paul's eyes. Especially after Burrito drew the charge, Paul looked like he was about to start crying. It would have been so sweet if JJ could have just hit the FTs and finished it off...

mac222b · 11-05-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYMAVGUY

I don't Know. Just because Kidd didn't Blow the end of the game, doesn't mean he wasn't inept. When you miss lay ups in the 2nd quarter it puts pressure on Dirk to defend harder and now he's in foul trouble. I really do think our point guard play is what kills us.

in the same way that Steve Blake with Oden/Pryzbilla kills Portland. long stretches of games where Kidd/Damp are not threats to score. i know not every team can have a Deron Williams or a Chris Paul but the game these days is really skewed in favor of quick pg's who can get to the cup. Kidd can't guard them and he can't go by anyone. when he does it's not pretty. maybe we would have been better off signing a quick aggressive young point that can defend, like Sessions, and btw he's getting paid *gulp* half as much per year.

AO41 · 11-05-2009, 07:06 PM

There were many little thing that went wrong. I am happy with the way bthe team fought though.

The game was lost whne JJ decided not to go to Jet and chuk a 3. That was what did it and it went downhill from there. Also the call with 6 secs, the ball should have gone to Jet rite away and let him do what he can.

horse900703 · 11-05-2009, 08:22 PM

stupid lost......

Dirkadirkastan · 11-05-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Folks, Espn actually showed us some love: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4626035

I like Hubie Brown. Everyone makes fun of him because he's old, but he knows his X's and O's and he's blissfully unaware of mainstream sports media crap.