Postgame Allas@Philadelphia 01/23/2010

[fluid.forty.one]

kevin martin

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

kevin martin

Kevandre Butdala.

[twelli]

Kevin Martin's current salary: 10.2 million
Josh Howard's current salary: 10.9 million

[sefant77]

Jose Barea´s current salary: 1.6 million
Prize of a bag of rice (that is even taller than him!): 50$

[left texas]

+10 on all the comments of the need for a second scorer. Come playoffs if we do not have a second option, it will be short lived.

[mac222b]

Yes to Kevin Martin

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Howard is what you'd call a black hole.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't know the details of his contract. It may be the case that he is just as appetizing to a cost-cutting team this summer as he is now. One thing would seem to be for sure, though: Ain't nobody picking up that option.

I'm pretty sure his option has to be picked up very early in the offseason. So if he's not traded before the trade deadline the only way he'll be traded after that is if it's in a sign and trade.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

What is so amazing is that Howard's game has dropped off in just about every way possible. He used to be middle of the road in offensive efficiency while providing pretty good defense and rebounding. Now, he's an inefficient offensive player who can't (or won't) rebound and is very questionable defensively.

I would say inconsistent defensively. He played quality defense against Boston, I thought. To my recollection he seems to turn in good defensive efforts in key games or in games where he has a real important assignment. But he certainly did nothing defensively last night.

And his rebounding and offensive play is absolutely disturbing. Part of me still feels like he's going to come around somewhat, but I really do think it's time for the Mavs to unload him for whatever they can get. They can't take him into this off seasons and let him walk for nothing.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Part of me still feels like he's going to come around somewhat, .

He's not going to get better than he was, and that wasn't good enough to be second option on a championship team. I'm hoping he gets there, though, and plays above his head for a run in the playoffs, because I'm afraid Mark Cuban is waiting for the impossibly lopsided deal to come through.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Howard is what you'd call a black hole.

Even a black hole is somewhat brighter than Josh Howard nowadays. JHo and JJB need to go, the sooner the better. This team needs a 2nd scorer or the playoffs will be over after the 1st round.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by cinemablend

So I guess you didn't see the previous 2 games where the Mavs won by getting interior points and getting in the paint?

This is not a jumpshooting team. For one thing, they don't have any good shooters except Dirk.

I don't know what this team is, but it's definitely not a jumpshooting team. People really need to stop saying it. If it were a jumpshooting team, that might be an improvement because at least they'd be able to do something in the half court then, at least then they'd have an identity.

Originally Posted by jthig32

69% of the Mavs' shot attempts are jump shots. A handful of teams put up that same number, and only two shoot a higher percentage of jump shots.

They are most certainly a jump shooting team.

And they are in desperate, desperate need of a real second scoring option.

Jthig said it better than I.

Yes, I watch basically all the Mavs games, but I just don't hang on them like I used to because they don't have all the parts and I don't believe in the NBA anymore.

Dallas can't score inside efficiently. They do not have a point who slashes well, and kicks. They do not have a SG that slashes well or kicks. They do not have a SF that slashes well or kicks. The PF is a shooter who can slash some, but is usually doubled now to keep him from doing it, and the C cannot score with a dump down pass and his back to the basket,

This teams scores on jumpers or good defense - allowing some fast breaking with Kidd when available. With that said - they look good when the jumpers are falling, and awful when they don't.

<edit>
Lets compare them to the Lakers.... The Lakers have Bynum who plays inside, Gasol who plays inside and out to 15', Kobe who slashes better than anyone else in the league, and Fischer who can and will slash at times. Odom who can slash due to his size and handle the ball well. The extras who come in can basically shoot -- so they can spot up and break zones, etc.

Lets compare them to the Spurs.... The Spurs are built on the consistent post play of TD, the slashing of Ginobili, the penetration of Parker, and the rest are defensive guys or shooters like Berry was and Finley who can score from the three when the double comes inside on TD. At least when they were elite -- this is how they were constructed.

Boston when really good have Pierce slashing, Garnett inside, Allen shooting, and Rondo penetrating.

There is a formula here that Dallas doesn't seem to understand... Whether you get the points by slashing or by post play -- you have to get the easy points inside so you can space the floor for the shooters. Most elite teams have both or all three, if you count an elite jump shooter as well. Dallas has Dirk -- who gets doubled so much he has to shoot jumpers, and Terry who is a pure shooter anyway. JHo fell in love with his jump shot but isn't efficient, Kidd is strictly a spot up shooter, Marion is a clean up/lob guy as well as Damp.

This offensive team is Dirk or Terry jumpshooting. If Terry or Dirk is off -- this team doesn't stand a chance UNLESS they play awesome D and start fast breaking. Not having a penetration guy has forced RC to play JJB alot -- which is to the ire of fans, and is only moderately effective, and kills the team at the defensive end.

I know there are some individual games where one player is on fire and goes off -- be it a Damp, Gooden, TThomas, JHo or even JJB making the team look a little different. Overall though - this is the team which is good, but is not elite, IMO, because it does not have a second guy who can score efficient inside by either slashing or post play.

I prefer the Iggy/Brand idea because it gives Dallas both -- without destroying the defense by inserting another one dimensional player.

[horse900703]

what happened?

[jthig32]

FWIW, I've always been of the opinion that the idea of inside scoring itself is over rated. The reason people want inside scoring is because it is, generally speaking, the most reliable form of scoring. It generally represents the most efficient way to score.

Well a team with Dirk Nowitzki already has an efficient way to score. Dirk is one of the more efficient scorers in the NBA, no matter how he is scoring. So my focus is much less on HOW we score, and much more on getting another player that can score with a high efficiency to compliment Dirk.

Drew Gooden is a perfect example of this argument. Gooden scores most of his baskets in the paint. When we acquired him people (other people, not me) were excited about having a player that would actually provide some offensive presence inside the paint.

What people (I hope) have discovered is that inside/outside, on its own, doesn't matter. Yes Gooden scores points in the paint, but he scores them in a horribly inefficient manner. He takes shots away from other, more efficient scorers. (I recognize Gooden has been playing better lately, but go with me here, it's an example.)

This is the reason I want Kevin Martin. He consistently sports one of the highest True Shooting percentages in the NBA. He's on of the NBA's most efficient scorers. THAT is what this team needs. Efficient scoring. Whether it comes from the outside or the inside. And really, with Martin you get both, because he provides you the very most reliable way to score in the NBA, free throw attempts.

[sefant77]

But you still dont want Elton Brand

I hate his contract too, but im so sick of this "do or die with the jumpshot", since years...

Give me a damn lowpost player and a SG please...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

But you still dont want Elton Brand

I hate his contract too, but im so sick of this "do or die with the jumpshot", since years...

Give me a damn lowpost player and a SG please...

I think you misunderstood my whole point. People want Elton Brand because he "scores inside". I want Kevin Martin because he is a better, more efficient scorer of the basketball.

And it also helps that Kevin Martin doesn't play the same position as our franchise player.

Plus, let's not act like Brand is some monster inside dunking on everyone. 70% of his shots are jump shots.

[dude1394]

The problem with this "inside scorer" thing is that if you get that guy you are necessarily going to give up dirk posting up down there also.

I would much rather have ginobbli than brand for example so that someone from the perimeter was breaking down the defense, not having a "so-so" on the blocks guy passing out to dirk.

I'd much rather have dirk posting up there when they can and having a driving,dishing shooting guard for this team. Iggy comes to mind.

[dude1394]

Look at the spurs, orlando for example. They have an inside player and surround him with 3pt shooters. The mavs are more of a mid-range club and dirk is a fine passer out of the post, we just dont' have the 3pt shooters than an inside out game requires imo.

[LonghornDub]

The whole "inside scorer" is overrated, and has been probably since the 80's or 90's. Thig is absolutely right on this one--what you need are efficient scorers, whether inside or outside. The Mavs have one.

[mavsfan1000]

Efficient scorers won't stay efficient if they aren't getting open. The main thing is to have an offensive strategy that requires a balance of inside and outside scorers. Dallas doesn't have that and are forced to shoot contested shots as teams are guarding the perimeter close. Of course passing is important to. Dallas has one good passer and he can't drive anymore.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Efficient scorers won't stay efficient if they aren't getting open. The main thing is to have an offensive strategy that requires a balance of inside and outside scorers. Dallas doesn't have that and are forced to shoot contested shots as teams are guarding the perimeter close. Of course passing is important to. Dallas has one good passer and he can't drive anymore.

Having a mix of inside and outside scorers may be one way to promote more efficient scoring, but the end goal isn't where the points come from, it's that the points come efficiently. That's why it makes no sense to prefer someone like Elton Brand, a relatively inefficient inside scorer (and frankly, probably a predominately outside scorer anyway) to Kevin Martin, a generally very efficient scorer.

[CadBane]

Amen to Thigy. The fact is, problem with the Mavs isn't a lack of inside scorers. It's a lack of SCORERS period. Kevin Martin is a bonafide scorer and would EASILY be the best 2nd option Dirk has ever had (as far as pure scorers).

[fluid.forty.one]

Josh Howard's ceiling was to be Dirk's robin. He never full achieved that and it's obvious by now that he never will. Kevin Martin would immediately be that robin. It's a no-brainer to me, even if you have to take on Noci's contract.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Jose Barea´s current salary: 1.6 million
Prize of a bag of rice (that is even taller than him!): 50$

Pure gold

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The problem with this "inside scorer" thing is that if you get that guy you are necessarily going to give up dirk posting up down there also.

I would much rather have ginobbli than brand for example so that someone from the perimeter was breaking down the defense, not having a "so-so" on the blocks guy passing out to dirk.

I'd much rather have dirk posting up there when they can and having a driving,dishing shooting guard for this team. Iggy comes to mind.

I disagree, Dirk can still post down low, just not all game. He doesn't now all game post down low. You are taking away his greatest strength when you want him to be Tim Duncan down low, and run the offense inside out all the time through Dirk.

Brand makes sense in that he could "at times" be the guy that posts up, but at times can be on the elbow shooting 15' and in stuff.

Brand was much better than so-so for a long time, although I'll admit I don't know now with the injuries.

It is not over-rated to score inside that paint though -- it is the highest percentage shots. IE yes the most efficient ones.

Efficient scoring is the name of the game - and yes Dirk is a very efficient scorer, but I can design defenses that will take out a player IF I can dedicate three players to it. Teams do this to Dallas -- make Dirk pass -- then force someone else to beat them. Sometimes a player steps up -- sometimes they don't...........ie inefficient jumpshooting teams go.

Iggy slashing might be more important that Brand on the blocks. I don't know that either way. I do know that I wish Dallas had both OPTIONS to utilize at times during the game to force mismatches.

[ShaggyDirk]

Originally Posted by jthig32

FWIW, I've always been of the opinion that the idea of inside scoring itself is over rated. The reason people want inside scoring is because it is, generally speaking, the most reliable form of scoring. It generally represents the most efficient way to score.

Well a team with Dirk Nowitzki already has an efficient way to score. Dirk is one of the more efficient scorers in the NBA, no matter how he is scoring. So my focus is much less on HOW we score, and much more on getting another player that can score with a high efficiency to compliment Dirk.

Drew Gooden is a perfect example of this argument. Gooden scores most of his baskets in the paint. When we acquired him people (other people, not me) were excited about having a player that would actually provide some offensive presence inside the paint.

What people (I hope) have discovered is that inside/outside, on its own, doesn't matter. Yes Gooden scores points in the paint, but he scores them in a horribly inefficient manner. He takes shots away from other, more efficient scorers. (I recognize Gooden has been playing better lately, but go with me here, it's an example.)

This is the reason I want Kevin Martin. He consistently sports one of the highest True Shooting percentages in the NBA. He's on of the NBA's most efficient scorers. THAT is what this team needs. Efficient scoring. Whether it comes from the outside or the inside. And really, with Martin you get both, because he provides you the very most reliable way to score in the NBA, free throw attempts.

Rolando Blackman would be a nice pick up... I sure miss him.

[Dirkules41]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Dirk sucked.

How can you blame Dirk on this one? Yeah, he has a off night but that happens, he can't score 25+ on every game so if he has one of this nights other had to step up and score, and thats our problem! JHo is done! The Jet has a bad season so far.