PGT | 3-22-10 | Mavs @ Hornets |1st quarter --> superb - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FreshJive · 03-22-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Roddy barely played, and there where such bigger problems...and Carlisle just throws us a giant middle finger and plays Eddie freakin Najera.

hmmm.

badfish22 · 03-22-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

hmmm.

lol taken out of context. Playing Najera isn't a problem in itself. But playing him as our 4th quarter center is.
Playing Najera in the 4th over Haywood and Damp is a big problem. Not sure how you have convinced yourself its not.

FreshJive · 03-22-2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

lol taken out of context. Playing Najera isn't a problem in itself. But playing him as our 4th quarter center is.
Playing Najera in the 4th over Haywood and Damp is a big problem. Not sure how you have convinced yourself its not.

I don't disagree but I just choose to blame damp.

clutch#41 · 03-23-2010, 12:02 AM

Fire Carlisle..hes the problem. against boston,ray allen and rondo were going off and 2 of our best defenders didnt play in roddy and stevenson.again tonight,collison and thorton were doing the same thing and what roddy and stevenson play in junk time? we have a deep bench and carlisle jus sticks to his 8-9 man rotation.
Damp still doesnt look and play right.hes slow off the floor and played no D tonight.Haywood really shows us how bad damp really is.
And Barrea getting more mins than roddy b??? are u serious?
I thought with Jet being out and Roddy blossoming and showing us his potential would get him atleast 10mins a game but carlisle is stubborn.Barrea should be planted next to carrol on the bench the rest of the year.
if we dont win the championship this year i dont expect carlisle back.we have WAY to much talent to lose to these sorry non playoff teams.

Dtownsfinest · 03-23-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoTnERb

The most painful thing I saw today was when Dirk placed his hands behind his head and was looking at the floor with utter disdain and disbelief. I feel really sorry for him. I wouldn't be a Mavs fan if it weren't for Dirk. God, I would just want him to win a championship ring, he deserves it more than any one else, not those players who act like thugs! People who act with class, morale, and value while having humility and working hard for it are those who deserve it most. F the refs!

So you're a Dirk fan and not a Mavs fan? I honestly wonder how many people were fans pre-Dirk. I'm not coming at you or anything but I honestly wonder how many Mavs fans remember when Finley and Chris Gatling were our only all stars. Or when beating the Bulls was our championship lol. Or remember the likes of Sasha Danilovic and Bubba Wells.

Dtownsfinest · 03-23-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

Fire Carlisle..hes the problem. against boston,ray allen and rondo were going off and 2 of our best defenders didnt play in roddy and stevenson.again tonight,collison and thorton were doing the same thing and what roddy and stevenson play in junk time? we have a deep bench and carlisle jus sticks to his 8-9 man rotation.
Damp still doesnt look and play right.hes slow off the floor and played no D tonight.Haywood really shows us how bad damp really is.
And Barrea getting more mins than roddy b??? are u serious?
I thought with Jet being out and Roddy blossoming and showing us his potential would get him atleast 10mins a game but carlisle is stubborn.Barrea should be planted next to carrol on the bench the rest of the year.
if we dont win the championship this year i dont expect carlisle back.we have WAY to much talent to lose to these sorry non playoff teams.

Nellie was the problem. AJ was the problem. Now its time to fire Carlisle. At what point is it up to the players? I think Carlisle has lost his team but i'm not sure if firing is the answer. I think screaming "Fire Carlisle" is making Carlisle a scapegoat when while he's a part of the problem not the sole problem. Coaches coach. Players play. One of the oldest saying's in the book but its true.

NoTnERb · 03-23-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So you're a Dirk fan and not a Mavs fan? I honestly wonder how many people were fans pre-Dirk. I'm not coming at you or anything but I honestly wonder how many Mavs fans remember when Finley and Chris Gatling were our only all stars. Or when beating the Bulls was our championship lol. Or remember the likes of Sasha Danilovic and Bubba Wells.

Exactly, I am a Dirk fan not a Mavs-fan. I live in California and I don't like any California based team in the nba. BUT if Dirk EVER moves to any California based team, I will route for them, but I doubt it :P but during the time that I've followed Dirk and the Mavs, I've learned to love the Mavs too..

Dirkadirkastan · 03-23-2010, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So you're a Dirk fan and not a Mavs fan? I honestly wonder how many people were fans pre-Dirk. I'm not coming at you or anything but I honestly wonder how many Mavs fans remember when Finley and Chris Gatling were our only all stars. Or when beating the Bulls was our championship lol. Or remember the likes of Sasha Danilovic and Bubba Wells.

I've been a Mavs fan the whole time the Spurs won their five championships.

Budapest Maverick · 03-23-2010, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Did Rick Carlisle really single out Roddy in the post game interview/ A couple posters on DB said he did. Apparently Rick said that he played bad.

Which, if true, is just freaking hilarious. Roddy barely played, and there where such bigger problems, yet he still makes it a point to pick on him.

This whole thing is comical at this point.

He really did that? I don't wanna be a boxscore warrior, but Roddy couldn't possibly play that horrible, as he had no turnover, and shot 3 for 4 from the field, for 9 points. Whatever... He'll play eventually, too much talent. What happened to our defense? We played very good D for a stretch after the trade, and now... And those turnovers lately? What is wrong with us?

Budapest Maverick · 03-23-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoTnERb

Exactly, I am a Dirk fan not a Mavs-fan. I live in California and I don't like any California based team in the nba. BUT if Dirk EVER moves to any California based team, I will route for them, but I doubt it :P but during the time that I've followed Dirk and the Mavs, I've learned to love the Mavs too..

It's cool. I started out as a Dirk fan too, but really just fell in love with that team, and i know it won't be a quick affair, i'm in for this s**t for life, lol. The 2006 finals really broke my heart, but i always say this, when we finally win this f'n thing (whether it's in 2010, 2011, or 2036 when there will be flying cars and robots) it will be that much sweeter. And we will win it one day, i'm telling you.

LonghornDub · 03-23-2010, 01:29 AM

Lol @ "Carlisle has lost the team."

Dtownsfinest · 03-23-2010, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Lol @ "Carlisle has lost the team."

What's funny about it? If i'm Dirk or Kidd I honestly couldn't have any faith in a coach who plays Eddie Najera and JJ Barea in 4th quarter of games. I couldn't even take that coach serious. Its just my opinion though. I felt Carlisle lost this team earlier in the season but the trade sparked interest in the players to play for him.

clutch#41 · 03-23-2010, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Lol @ "Carlisle has lost the team."

ya i dont see nothing funny about it either man. its almost playoff time and we get blown out at home to the knicks.almost lose to the worst team in the nba at home..and get blown out by a non playoff team!
i see nothing to laugh about bud.

nowhereman · 03-23-2010, 02:07 AM

The team finally got some practice time and is expanding its sets. There's some adjustment. They were on the road and the other team had two players catch absolute fire. Lets move on.

But this team has been very unimpressive at least the last 6 games.

dalger · 03-23-2010, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is my fear. I don't think they would beat any of the West teams in a playoff series, except maybe the Blazers, the way they're playing right now.

That's what I was thinking earlier today even before the game against the Hornets. Normally, we should be and play like the 2nd best team in the conference alongside Denver and right behind the Lakers. The problem is that we haven't played like that recently. At the same time, teams like Phoenix, San Antonio and OKC, all potential opponents in the 1st round, have been pretty good and aren't that far away anyway. If those teams were able to roll into the playoffs on a run and have momentum, they could certainly give us trouble. There will be no easy wins in the playoffs and we'll have to live up to our potential.

Right now, it doesn't look too good. I really thought that some of the things we had to witness the last couple of games were things of the pre-trade past. Horrible defense, giving away huge leads, being outhustled, unnecessary home losses, you name it.

Momentum obviously changes and we could be fine come playoff time. However, after the last few games, I'm still skeptical (or skeptical again) as far as expecting our team to play a full playoff run on a high level is concerned. Being inconsistent here and there is fine, but the lows we have in us are frightening. Today, we played like the Lakers in the first quarter and like the Nets in the other three quarters.

clutch#41 · 03-23-2010, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

The team finally got some practice time and is expanding its sets. There's some adjustment. They were on the road and the other team had two players catch absolute fire. Lets move on.

But this team has been very unimpressive at least the last 6 games.

agreed! and i believe the adjustments should be roddy b at backup pg and giving haywood more mins. theres no reason barrea should be playing at all.he brings NOTHING to this team.damp hasnt been the same since hes been back.hes been playing real lazy like he dont give a damn. and stevenson should be getting PT. He woulda been perfect to put on one of the hornets guards tonight but carlisle is blind i guess.

dalger · 03-23-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What's funny about it? If i'm Dirk or Kidd I honestly couldn't have any faith in a coach who plays Eddie Najera and JJ Barea in 4th quarter of games. I couldn't even take that coach serious. Its just my opinion though. I felt Carlisle lost this team earlier in the season but the trade sparked interest in the players to play for him.

Last Thursday, Dirk said after the Bulls game that "JJ was the one who really saved us". I don't think that only one week later, Dirk loses "any faith in a coach" for giving the same guy some back-up minutes to rest 37-year-old Jason Kidd, who, by the way, played the entire 3rd quarter. Might just be too much of a stretch, I think. As you know, it's hardly uncommon for starters to rest the first minutes of the last quarter. We could argue whether or not Jet would be better at the point guard position in the final 12 minutes, but taking out guys like JJB or Najera basically leaves us with a 7-men rotation. I don't want that to happen during the regular season against the f'n Hornets. That said, if only JJB and Najera had been our problem today, 4th quarter or not, the game would have been much more fun to watch.

Dtownsfinest · 03-23-2010, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Last Thursday, Dirk said after the Bulls game that "JJ was the one who really saved us". I don't think that only one week later, Dirk loses "any faith in a coach" for giving the same guy some back-up minutes to rest 37-year-old Jason Kidd, who, by the way, played the entire 3rd quarter. Might just be too much of a stretch, I think. As you know, it's hardly uncommon for starters to rest the first minutes of the last quarter. We could argue whether or not Jet would be better at the point guard position in the final 12 minutes, but taking out guys like JJB or Najera basically leaves us with a 7-men rotation. I don't want that to happen during the regular season against the f'n Hornets. That said, if only JJB and Najera had been our problem today, 4th quarter or not, the game would have been much more fun to watch.

Points taken. But what do you think the reasoning is for this current play the Mavs are displaying? Maybe the team finally getting healthy? Maybe they need time to gel again?

Spurred1 · 03-23-2010, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I've been a Mavs fan the whole time the Spurs won their five championships.

LOL-good one.

dalger · 03-23-2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Points taken. But what do you think the reasoning is for this current play the Mavs are displaying? Maybe the team finally getting healthy? Maybe they need time to gel again?

A game like this one leaves me pretty speechless. We shot 52% from the floor, 50% from 3-point land and grabbed rebounds just as good as the Hornets--and we lose by 16?! That's just not right.

What I do think is that simply inserting Roddy into the lineup for JJB, who was only on the court for eight minutes, wouldn't have made that much of a difference. Playing the oldest team in the league a tiring 7-men rotation during the regular season against an average team like the Hornets with the playoffs in sight can't be the answer either. And a debate about Carlisle is the last thing we need right now.

How about playing some defense and avoiding (18!) turnovers instead? Both comes down to effort and focus, which we clearly and unfortunately lacked tonight, and it's definitely on the players to show up and take care of the ball. Carlisle can't do it. What the coach can do, and I hope he will, is find a way for this healthy Mavs team to be as comfortable together as possible on the court.

Hopefully, all it takes is a little more time and playoff atmosphere.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Nellie was the problem. AJ was the problem. Now its time to fire Carlisle. At what point is it up to the players? I think Carlisle has lost his team but i'm not sure if firing is the answer. I think screaming "Fire Carlisle" is making Carlisle a scapegoat when while he's a part of the problem not the sole problem. Coaches coach. Players play. One of the oldest saying's in the book but its true.

I don't know though...the the entire coaching staff I'd give pretty low marks so far this season. The offense AND defense have been inconsistent all season. The rotations are sometimes slap your head bad. I mean don't the Mavs have like 85 million assistant coaches? I'd love to ask Darrell Armstrong what he is getting paid for.

It's too easy to blame JUST Carlisle, but you definitely can point fingers at the coaches because the Mavericks are too talented for losses like this.

cinemablend · 03-23-2010, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Roddy barely played, and there where such bigger problems, yet he still makes it a point to pick on him.

And when he played, he played well. Really he did.

Alright he was only mediocre for the FOUR MINUTES he was allowed to play in the first half when it actually mattered. But during that 4 minutes the Mavs actually got back some of the lead they lost while Barea was playing point.

The other 4 minutes he played where in total garbage time... garbage time when he came out and immediately forced the issue by going straight to the hole and playing the best defense anyone had played on Chris Paul all night.

Cuban has to see this. How long does he put up with this insanity from Carlisle? This has gone beyond all reason.

cinemablend · 03-23-2010, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

lol taken out of context. Playing Najera isn't a problem in itself. But playing him as our 4th quarter center is.
Playing Najera in the 4th over Haywood and Damp is a big problem. Not sure how you have convinced yourself its not.

Najera = 0 rebounds.

You're dead on.

cinemablend · 03-23-2010, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

taking out guys like JJB or Najera basically leaves us with a 7-men rotation.

You should buy a calculator.

1. Kidd
2. Butler
3. Marion
4. Nowitzki
5. Haywood
6. Terry
7. Dampier
8. Roddy
9. Stevenson

cinemablend · 03-23-2010, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

What I do think is that simply inserting Roddy into the lineup for JJB, who was only on the court for eight minutes, wouldn't have made that much of a difference.

It's all about momentum. The Mavs lost all of theirs and the Hornets got all of theirs the minute JJ went in the game.

When Roddy went in the game, the momentum shifted briefly back in the Mavs favor (though the Hornets eventually got it back).

If JJ had never gone in... maybe the momentum never shifts and maybe the Mavs keep the Hornets back on their heels and don't turn into a total turnover machine.

Kante · 03-23-2010, 06:35 AM

Kidd just played 32 Minutes, good sign...

jthig32 · 03-23-2010, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

All I know is, this seems like the time of year when you'd be playing hard the entire game. The Mavs look like they are coasting out there, as if it were mid-November. A lot of their turnovers were unforced, stupid plays. Kidd looks slow and tired, and Dirk looks sort of spaced-out.

It would also help if Carlisle would establish a decent rotation and stick with it. And by decent rotation, I don't mean Eddie Najera at backup C and Barea at backup PG.

Najera at backup Center AND backup PF for most of the night. What the heck?

Usually Lurkin · 03-23-2010, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

You should buy a calculator.

1. Kidd
2. Butler
3. Marion
4. Nowitzki
5. Haywood
6. Terry
7. Dampier
8. Roddy
9. Stevenson

no kidding. I don't see a lot of room there for JJB and Najera.

kg_veteran · 03-23-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Najera at backup Center AND backup PF for most of the night. What the heck?

Carlisle seems to have found the larger version of Barea. He loves undersized Hispanic players.

kg_veteran · 03-23-2010, 08:44 AM

In all seriousness, the more that I think about it, I can't think of a legitimate argument for playing either Najera or Barea at all.

dirno2000 · 03-23-2010, 10:28 AM

Norm just had an amazing stat. The Mavs have failed to cover the spread for 27 straight games when favored by more than 4. That's unreal.

Stranger · 03-23-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

In all seriousness, the more that I think about it, I can't think of a legitimate argument for playing either Najera or Barea at all.

Not that this is a good reason, but I would bet Najera and Barea work their tails off in practice. That probably helps them get on Carlisle's good side.

kg_veteran · 03-23-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Not that this is a good reason, but I would bet Najera and Barea work their tails off in practice. That probably helps them get on Carlisle's good side.

Well of course they do. They are hard workers. But I play harder than most of those guys do when I play, and you wouldn't want me backing up Dirk (although I do have a sweet shot!).

SMC0007 · 03-23-2010, 11:36 AM

Kidds play has dropped off a bit lately since his streak of amazing effort. He is the catalyst for our runs and when he is slicing the lanes and penetrating. The team really feeds off of it, especially when he is creating his own shot as well. When he lays back a bit and passes around from the perimiter we shoot jumpers. It begins with him and I think he's ready for the playoffs.

I like Butler and understand we wouldn't have Haywood if the deal didn't go down but I would still prefer K Martin. Just saying, Butler isn't really providing anything off the dribble like I hoped he would. He has settled nearly as much as Jho, just has a better shot.

tcat075 · 03-23-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Not that this is a good reason, but I would bet Najera and Barea work their tails off in practice. That probably helps them get on Carlisle's good side.

They're scrappers. Carlisle, in his very short NBA career, was a scrappy. Had to be. He wasn't skilled enough. He may feel a certain effinity towards those players.

Which is stupid if true.

xrobx · 03-23-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I like Butler and understand we wouldn't have Haywood if the deal didn't go down but I would still prefer K Martin. Just saying, Butler isn't really providing anything off the dribble like I hoped he would. He has settled nearly as much as Jho, just has a better shot.

agree. he's pretty much just a healthy drama-free jho. pretty much all he does is shoot long wild contested jumpers.

Kidd Karma · 03-23-2010, 12:34 PM

KG, or Kobe, or Lebron getting in teammates faces, hyping them up, brings up the intensity level through out the game. We don't have that, Dirk isn't like that, Kidd isn't like that. Now if Dirk showed a little roughhousing while being molested all night, then I would give him credit, but he did not. He should push back, slap hands away, even a Dampier or Haywood should just set up a moving pick on Dirk's man, get a little rough, when it's one sided, ref's won't call it. Plus 35 points on 20 turnovers, hard to win.

xrobx · 03-23-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

KG, or Kobe, or Lebron getting in teammates faces, hyping them up, brings up the intensity level through out the game. We don't have that, Dirk isn't like that, Kidd isn't like that. Now if Dirk showed a little roughhousing while being molested all night, then I would give him credit, but he did not. He should push back, slap hands away, even a Dampier or Haywood should just set up a moving pick on Dirk's man, get a little rough, when it's one sided, ref's won't call it. Plus 35 points on 20 turnovers, hard to win.

this team needs to show some heart and some fire. if you'll notice in the spurs series last year, when dampier (of all people) stepped up and said if parker drives in the lane he was going to knock him on his ass, we dominated the rest of the series. nice guys finish last in this league. we could learn a thing or two from stevenson. carlisle should play him more.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-23-2010, 03:37 PM

Butler shoots a low percentage on high-percentage shots because he gets blocked a lot.

Dtownsfinest · 03-23-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

You should buy a calculator.

1. Kidd
2. Butler
3. Marion
4. Nowitzki
5. Haywood
6. Terry
7. Dampier
8. Roddy
9. Stevenson

And i'm fine with that rotation. Hopefully come playoff time that's what the rotation will be but of course it won't be. There's no excuse for playing Barea and Najera in the 4th quarter of games. None. He should never come in at the 5 spot and I guess he could get the time Dirk doesn't get at the 4 but even that should be minimal. The only missing key position is the 4 spot but Marion should be able to fill that role when he and Dirk aren't in the game at the same time.