Postgame-Dallas Mavericks 105 - Golden State Crapiers 101

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mavs777

misleading stat

How?

How is rebounds per game a misleading stat about how good a team is at rebounding?

Enlighten me...

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

After this game, they're ranked 9th in the league at 42.3 RPG.

I tend to like Rebounding Rate a little bit more because it factors in the pace that a team plays at. However, the Mavs have one of the slowest paces in the league so I figured they would have been punished as much as any team in terms of rpg. I wonder why they are still ranked so high.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

How?

How is rebounds per game a misleading stat about how good a team is at rebounding?

Enlighten me...

In the same way that points per game is a misleading team stat. It doesn't take possessions into account.

But the point remains that the Mavs as a whole have not been a poor rebounding team for the whole season. I think they've had games where it's really stuck out (Chicago) but by all of the rebounding metrics out there they've been better than average.

[Dirkgreatness]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So Dirk's never played next to good rebounders before? Bullsh.

His rebounding has been steadily declining for the past several seasons to the point that he's now a below average rebounder. And he's been getting worked over pretty good on the boards ever since his ankle injury, at least in my own mind.

He's still awesome, it's just a chink in his armor that I wish would get a little better.

+1. Honestly, i'm a little concerned about hes rebounding numbers going down,

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by jthig32

In the same way that points per game is a misleading team stat. It doesn't take possessions into account.

But the point remains that the Mavs as a whole have not been a poor rebounding team for the whole season. I think they've had games where it's really stuck out (Chicago) but by all of the rebounding metrics out there they've been better than average.

This sums it up

[FINtastic]

And my main point wasn't that the Mavericks are a terrible rebounding team, but simply that they aren't dominant on the glass. So I have trouble buying the claim that Dirk is doing poorly on the glass because all of his teammates have snatched up all the rebounds already.

Not to rip on Dirk too much here. He's been one of the best offensive weapons in the NBA so I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. He's pretty much carrying our offense right now. But he has become a little bit of liability on the glass which is why you need a Tyson Chandler as the yin to his yang. It's also why I get a little frustrated with Haywood's lack of rebounding at times. Rebounding is too crucial at the center position for this team for Haywood to have a bad night on the glass.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Alexis Ajinça is wearing #8? I thought that number was hanging in the rafters.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mavs777

This sums it up

You should +rep him for the bailout, poser.

If anything, a slow-paced/low-possession team should be ranked a lot worse than 9th - for comparison, the Celtics are ranked 27th...

[Thespiralgoeson]

I know he finished his typical 25+, but honestly I thought Dirk looked absolutely lethargic out there most of the night. It wasn't until the last 5 minutes or so that I thought he actually showed any kind of energy. So tonight I attribute his poor rebounding to a simple lack of effort.

[BGMaverick9]

thig and UD can you check your PM in about 5 minutes? Gotta question for you guys, if LDub is lurking...you too

[monty55555]

Shawn's tweet:

10 in a row that's what's up get well Tyson we need u baby

http://twitter.com/#!/matrix31

Yes, Matrix, we all saw what it's like without our defensive ace Tyson. I hope he gets well soon. Although Mahinmi, Ajinca and Haywood played well, the difference with him and without him is startling.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

thig and UD can you check your PM in about 5 minutes? Gotta question for you guys, if LDub is lurking...you too

I already know what you're gonna ask before you ask it, so here's your answer: that pink lace thong I got your mom for her birthday...

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I already know what you're gonna ask before you ask it, so here's your answer: that pink lace thong I got your mom for her birthday...

Um, I think that's the answer to the PM I was going to send you.

And it's called a private message, you jerk.

[sike]

a ten game winning streak is pretty sexy.

Almost sexier than that thong UD got BG's mom.

[BGMaverick9]

9th time in team history they've gotten a 10-game winning streak...

[mavspwnage]

I don't like looking at rebounds per game. Instead, it is better to look at PERCENTAGE of total rebounds collected.

[dude1394]

I wanted to ask some folks about the defense in the fourth... I thought I saw the mavs flying pretty good out at shooters all night in the fourth and they hit a bunch of them.. You get one replay at the arena and that's it...

Were they slow or were they just some good shots?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I wanted to ask some folks about the defense in the fourth... I thought I saw the mavs flying pretty good out at shooters all night in the fourth and they hit a bunch of them.. You get one replay at the arena and that's it...

Were they slow or were they just some good shots?

Ellis and Curry hit a few really well-contested shots. Other than that I noticed all three point guards kept getting beat off the pick and roll.Either Dirk, Marion, or Butler would always have to come over and help and leave someone open.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Ellis and Curry hit a few really well-contested shots. Other than that I noticed all three point guards kept getting beat off the pick and roll.Either Dirk, Marion, or Butler would always have to come over and help and leave someone open.

Never.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Ellis and Curry hit a few really well-contested shots. Other than that I noticed all three point guards kept getting beat off the pick and roll.Either Dirk, Marion, or Butler would always have to come over and help and leave someone open.

This is a good observation. I thought the pick and roll defense highlighted how much Chandler means to this defense. He's quite possibly the best defender of the pick and roll at the center position in the NBA.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is a good observation. I thought the pick and roll defense highlighted how much Chandler means to this defense. He's quite possibly the best defender of the pick and roll at the center position in the NBA.

On the podcast from yesterday, Followill had a great analysis for what Chandler means to the team in terms of defense from a different viewpoint than I've heard before.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by monty55555

That is pretty impressive. Although it comes against the Warriors, it's still a big accomplishment for 2 guys who barely get any playing time behind Tyson and Haywood.

The Warriors are not a horrible team this year, and they're getting better as they get people back from injury.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by xrobx

i don't get why people keep saying this. for the first time in his career he's playing next to good centers. chandler, haywood, mahinmi, ajinca, ... these guys are double double machines that suck up all the rebounds

Does not compute. It's not like the Mavs have been crushing people on the boards. Sure, if we totally dominated the boards every night and Dirk didn't have many then MAYBE I could buy into the whole "there's not enough to go around" but that's simply not the case.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You should +rep him for the bailout, poser.

If anything, a slow-paced/low-possession team should be ranked a lot worse than 9th - for comparison, the Celtics are ranked 27th...

thats not the only thing though, shooting percentages on both end come in to play and the Mavs are forcing a ton of missed shots hence a lot of available rebounds

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

thig and UD can you check your PM in about 5 minutes? Gotta question for you guys, if LDub is lurking...you too

so secretive

[dude1394]

So I got to see a few highlights and it looked like the mavs were pretty confused out there defensively. Haywood didn't bring the one thing that he could bring in place of tyson and that would be communication. I saw guys leaving their man and sort of confused out there.

I think that Tyson's communication is huge.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I got to see a few highlights and it looked like the mavs were pretty confused out there defensively. Haywood didn't bring the one thing that he could bring in place of tyson and that would be communication. I saw guys leaving their man and sort of confused out there.

I think that Tyson's communication is huge.

We should just have Tyson in a suit on the sideline yelling out instructions

[BGMaverick9]

I can't confirm or deny that Baguettes' were added to the post-game meal:

The question then becomes, can Mahinmi play himself into more minutes for the team? "I like a competitive situation for more minutes," said Carlisle. "(Ian) competes hard in practice. In games like tonight, he makes a strong case. I am not by any stretch saying Haywood didn’t play well, I thought he did a good job too. I just thought Ian’s energy level was a real difference maker in the game." We'll just have to see how things go to see if Mahinmi will be able to steal any of Haywood's minutes. Chandler's illness is not believed to be anything major, so he shouldn't miss a large chunk of time.

read more at http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2010/12...rriors-105-101

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

so secretive

it's because Donnie asked me my opinion on this trade idea and I wanted to see if they thought I gave the right answer....not.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

so secretive

Yeah, what's all that about?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Yeah, what's all that about?

you don't need to worry about it haha. I just knew they'd see it on here quicker than PMs and it's something I needed some help on with a time-crunch situation.

[CapitanObvious]

I don't understand why you guys are all in a hurry to get rid of Haywood. I think he is a very solid back-up center, and I am pretty sure he would do well defending against Heavy-low post centers like Dwight.. Im up for keeping the guy. I love the whole team right now.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I tend to like Rebounding Rate a little bit more because it factors in the pace that a team plays at. However, the Mavs have one of the slowest paces in the league so I figured they would have been punished as much as any team in terms of rpg. I wonder why they are still ranked so high.

Because we are a very good defensive team that forces a ton of misses and the largely unnoticed(and frankly irrelevant as far as judging a rebounding team is that our opponents miss fts at an extremely high rate and those are the easiest rebounds to get in basketball.)

As for dirks rebounding, it is an issue. Last year in the playoffs was the first time he wasnt able to kick it up once the playoffs rolled around and that is an issue. There are a couple of reasons that his rebounding has gone down imo. The first and simplest is age. Hes not as energetic and doesnt play as many minutes as he used to. 2. The presence of Jason Kidd. I feel that Kidd effects his rebounding more than the centers. For years Dirk had the highest BBall iq on the Mavs and picked up a rebound or 2 a game from simply anticipating better than everyone else. Sure he would bang with the big boys some times but he was never a Dwight Howard type rebounder that outphysicalled people for most of his rebounds. Kidd gets to more of those lose balls than dirk does now and I think Dirk doesnt worry about it as much as he used to. 3. Court positioning. While Dirk loves to set up on the block now, nearly no one lets him do it anymore which results in him drifting more. As an aside to this, this season is by far the best Ive ever seen him shoot. Hes shooting 55% and its not because hes going to the rim more. Hes just making EVERYTHING.

As far as concerns with dirk, his lack of FT attempts concerns me quite a bit as well. As I mentioned I know hes shooting amazingly well right now but hes averaging less than 2 ft attempts a game in his last 7 games. If hes not getting to the line, we dont have anyone else who can. Chandler, Kidd and Marion are all great rebounders for their position so I can live with a little slippage in rebounding. We dont have anyone who can make up for his FT attempts though.

[grndmstr_c]

Warriors shot it very well tonight against a Dallas defense that was for much of the night off their best form, but at the same time not as bad as the Warriors shooting percentages might make it appear.

Ian was probably the story of the game and was great in the second half, even with the missed dunks and occasional over-exuberance on the offensive end. I started wondering midway through the fourth who Carlisle was going to bring in for him, because he'd been going at it for a while with very high energy, but Rick stuck with him and it was the right move. I don't think he vaults ahead of Wood as the second center on the strength of tonight's game, but he damn sure earned himself some more opportunities.

Nice job by Ajinca, too. I sometimes felt like he was almost having success on accident (which is to say that I'm pretty sure his length is something of a genetic accident), but regardless, he came through better than could have been hoped, and played an important part in the victory.

Dirk, Kidd and Haywood all looked to be having some trouble with the Warriors' speed for much of the night. Dirk was shooting it efficiently throughout and came through with some big defensive plays late, though, and Jason found his way (as is his wont) to some seriously clutch play before all was said and done.

Quite pleased with Caron's contributions tonight. Not a perfect game by any stretch, but the energy was there, the execution (on both ends of the court) was solid, and most importantly he seemed to be making quick decisions with the ball. The team really needs that from him.

Last but certainly not least, major props to JET and Marion, who were probably Dallas' two best players tonight. Just terrific stuff from both of them.

[BGMaverick9]

Rhylan mentioned this on Monday and we're noticing it a LOT more now...

Does anyone else notice Jet is running out/leaking out a lot more lately and it's triggering an easy fast break opportunity? It happened at least 2-3 times tonight successfully, maybe even another instance or two where it really didn't get a chance to work.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Because we are a very good defensive team that forces a ton of misses and the largely unnoticed(and frankly irrelevant as far as judging a rebounding team is that our opponents miss fts at an extremely high rate and those are the easiest rebounds to get in basketball.)

As for dirks rebounding, it is an issue. Last year in the playoffs was the first time he wasnt able to kick it up once the playoffs rolled around and that is an issue. There are a couple of reasons that his rebounding has gone down imo. The first and simplest is age. Hes not as energetic and doesnt play as many minutes as he used to. 2. The presence of Jason Kidd. I feel that Kidd effects his rebounding more than the centers. For years Dirk had the highest BBall iq on the Mavs and picked up a rebound or 2 a game from simply anticipating better than everyone else. Sure he would bang with the big boys some times but he was never a Dwight Howard type rebounder that outphysicalled people for most of his rebounds. Kidd gets to more of those lose balls than dirk does now and I think Dirk doesnt worry about it as much as he used to. 3. Court positioning. While Dirk loves to set up on the block now, nearly no one lets him do it anymore which results in him drifting more. As an aside to this, this season is by far the best Ive ever seen him shoot. Hes shooting 55% and its not because hes going to the rim more. Hes just making EVERYTHING.

As far as concerns with dirk, his lack of FT attempts concerns me quite a bit as well. As I mentioned I know hes shooting amazingly well right now but hes averaging less than 2 ft attempts a game in his last 7 games. If hes not getting to the line, we dont have anyone else who can. Chandler, Kidd and Marion are all great rebounders for their position so I can live with a little slippage in rebounding. We dont have anyone who can make up for his FT attempts though.

salient point about Dirk's FT's. could it actually be a blessing in disguise though? he's saving on some wear and tear by not banging as much. come post season his FT attempts and rebounding should be back up.

now that the defense looks legit perhaps the biggest question regarding this team is whether, even with Roddy, they can get to the line when the defense tightens and shots aren't falling. it explains, in part, the clamor around here for a Caron/Iggy swap. this team desperately could use another creator.

Boston for instance plays a slow down game predicated on defense, but then they have Rondo and esp. Pierce to go to. LA has Kobe and a couple of post threats. it would be great to have another rebounder, maybe Mahinmi will help if he earns more time? but you hit on the real key to this team's fortunes going forward... getting enough free throw attempts.

[Spurred1]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I know he finished his typical 25+, but honestly I thought Dirk looked absolutely lethargic out there most of the night. It wasn't until the last 5 minutes or so that I thought he actually showed any kind of energy. So tonight I attribute his poor rebounding to a simple lack of effort.

But his rebounding has been pretty poor for the past few games-is he just not trying in all those games or is there some sort of health issue? Maybe he's got some nagging ankle issues or the stomach flu that's currently making the rounds. But whatever the reason, it really needs to be addressed and fixed.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by mac222b

salient point about Dirk's FT's. could it actually be a blessing in disguise though? he's saving on some wear and tear by not banging as much. come post season his FT attempts and rebounding should be back up.

now that the defense looks legit perhaps the biggest question regarding this team is whether, even with Roddy, they can get to the line when the defense tightens and shots aren't falling. it explains, in part, the clamor around here for a Caron/Iggy swap. this team desperately could use another creator.

Boston for instance plays a slow down game predicated on defense, but then they have Rondo and esp. Pierce to go to. LA has Kobe and a couple of post threats. it would be great to have another rebounder, maybe Mahinmi will help if he earns more time? but you hit on the real key to this team's fortunes going forward... getting enough free throw attempts.

The biggest question I have about us in the post is simply if we have enough shooting to make teams pay for doubling Dirk. Pau Gasol and maybe Dwight Howard are the only two players in the nba who are better post scorers than dirk at this point.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

The biggest question I have about us in the post is simply if we have enough shooting to make teams pay for doubling Dirk. Pau Gasol and maybe Dwight Howard are the only two players in the nba who are better post scorers than dirk at this point.

if Kidd can start hitting that would really help. Roddy looked good from range last year. can he be relied upon to make them in a playoff series? we'll have to see. and Barea should just STOP shooting 3's. period.

guys that can get to the rim and draw contact or create easy looks for others helps mitigate not having enough shooters. it's why JJ plays. but i agree this team could use another pure shooter.

[Kante]

"You don't want to talk to me," Nowitzki said after his game-high 25-point performance. "It was Ian's night. Ian and Ajinca's night."