Stein's Mavs Summer Scoop - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Floppy · 05-07-2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If the Knicks are trading Tyson, they're almost certainly tearing completely down in order to bottom out and rebuild around the draft and free agency. There'd be absolutely no reason for them to want Calderon in that scenario.

Trade Calderon to a 3rd team .. Some people seem to think he is in high demand

#41 Shoot em up · 05-07-2014, 07:17 PM

I don't know what team would be dumb enough to take Calderon of our hands. As has been discussed many times, the money is decent but the years are ridiculous.

Mavs have Calderon for 3 more years lol. For fucks sake

Five-ofan · 05-07-2014, 07:18 PM

I want absolutely no part of hibbert. I'm on record as saying that wright on Houston scares me but asik for wright makes a lot of sense for both teams IMO. Also while the money sucks for Cuban, he leaves us with more cap room(and I'd assume bird rights as long as traded in the off season)

I also really want us to keep Ellington. He's not quite Calderon as a shooter, but he is a damn good shooter and a decent defender. If they feel that Ellis can play the point, he could be a solid option 20-25 minutes a game if Rick will play him. I want Vince back if he'll come on a cheap contract and one of the good sfs and I'm happy with that lineup.

If we can get sanders for cheap, I'm all for that

#41 Shoot em up · 05-07-2014, 07:20 PM

As far as Carmelo goes...... Woj released an article some weeks ago that said Melo likes Houston and Chicago as destinations...... if he's willing to meet with Houston....... why wouldn't he meet with Dallas?? The one playoff team who could sign him outright.

Five-ofan · 05-07-2014, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #41 Shoot em up

As far as Carmelo goes...... Woj released an article some weeks ago that said Melo likes Houston and Chicago as destinations...... if he's willing to meet with Houston....... why wouldn't he meet with Dallas?? The one playoff team who could sign him outright.

Someone who understands cba will have to explain to me how exactly melo could end up in Houston. Obviously they'd have to trade asik, but still you have harden, Howard, and melo all making the max plus Lin who's pretty close to untradeable. I don't see anyway that works under the cap

EricaLubarsky · 05-07-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Someone who understands cba will have to explain to me how exactly melo could end up in Houston. Obviously they'd have to trade asik, but still you have harden, Howard, and melo all making the max plus Lin who's pretty close to untradeable. I don't see anyway that works under the cap

Maybe he'll think of his team first and take less money
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spreedom · 05-07-2014, 08:33 PM

Well done, Erica! Must spread rep...

yahyes · 05-07-2014, 09:16 PM

I think Phil Jackson would consider making a deal with getting all our 3 draft picks. That could especially help the Knicks to move up in the draft. Also with throwing in some young assets like Wright, Larkin, Mekel, or Ellington. But this will all depend if Phil Jackson is looking for a rebuild mode.

We take the salary dump of Chandler. Then make a pitch to Carmelo teaming up with Dirk, Monta, and his teammate Chandler. It's actually realistic to think IF the knicks are going to revamp it all under Phil Jackson. For the Mavs if all that can happen has to be an all out chase for the title right away.

Melonhead · 05-07-2014, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

I think Phil Jackson would consider making a deal with getting all our 3 draft picks. That could especially help the Knicks to move up in the draft. Also with throwing in some young assets like Wright, Larkin, Mekel, or Ellington. But this will all depend if Phil Jackson is looking for a rebuild mode.

We take the salary dump of Chandler. Then make a pitch to Carmelo teaming up with Dirk, Monta, and his teammate Chandler. It's actually realistic to think IF the knicks are going to revamp it all under Phil Jackson. For the Mavs if all that can happen has to be an all out chase for the title right away.

Phil Jackson not wanting a star player like Carmelo tells me all I need to know. No thanks. Continuity doesnt involve bringing in a guy like him. FO is building around the core of Dirk, Monta, Calderon.

LonghornDub · 05-07-2014, 10:59 PM

I'm not sure exactly what to think about Melo, but if you're looking at it from the perspective of how he would play with Dirk, that shouldn't be the primary outlook. They would be getting Carmelo, if at all, for life after Dirk. What he does with Dirk for these next couple years would be somewhat ancillary.

(To be clear, I'm not saying that the Mavs should or shouldn't be thinking this way. I'm saying this would be the only reason the Mavs even consider Melo. He's nowhere near ideal as an on-court Dirk partner.)

DirkFTW · 05-07-2014, 11:19 PM

Could Rick retrain Melo like he did Ellis?

spreedom · 05-08-2014, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Could Rick retrain Melo like he did Ellis?

I don't doubt that he could, but you just can't have two of those guys on the same team and expect to win anything.

Underdog · 05-08-2014, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not sure exactly what to think about Melo, but if you're looking at it from the perspective of how he would play with Dirk, that shouldn't be the primary outlook. They would be getting Carmelo, if at all, for life after Dirk. What he does with Dirk for these next couple years would be somewhat ancillary.

(To be clear, I'm not saying that the Mavs should or shouldn't be thinking this way. I'm saying this would be the only reason the Mavs even consider Melo. He's nowhere near ideal as an on-court Dirk partner.)

So "life after Dirk" would pretty much be the same as Minny's "life after Garnett" (as in Carmello Anthony can be our empty stats All-Star equivalent of their empty stats All-Star, Kevin Love)?

Yeah, I might have to start looking into how to pass as a Heat fan in public because I'm sure as sh!t not rooting for Melo in a Mavs uniform... I want to see us try to win a ring sometime before my crotch turns gray.

FreshJive · 05-08-2014, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So "life after Dirk" would pretty much be the same as Minny's "life after Garnett" (as in Carmello Anthony can be our empty stats All-Star equivalent of their empty stats All-Star, Kevin Love)?

Yeah, I might have to start looking into how to pass as a Heat fan in public because I'm sure as sh!t not rooting for Melo in a Mavs uniform... I want to see us try to win a ring sometime before my crotch turns gray.

If I'm thinking without my heart, I would trade Dirk for Love or Carmello yesterday. I'm certainly not going to worry about how these guys would work with Dirk.

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not sure exactly what to think about Melo, but if you're looking at it from the perspective of how he would play with Dirk, that shouldn't be the primary outlook. They would be getting Carmelo, if at all, for life after Dirk. What he does with Dirk for these next couple years would be somewhat ancillary.

(To be clear, I'm not saying that the Mavs should or shouldn't be thinking this way. I'm saying this would be the only reason the Mavs even consider Melo. He's nowhere near ideal as an on-court Dirk partner.)

You realize that melo turns 30 in 2 weeks. If you get melo, immediately after you start planning for life after dirk, you have to start planning for life after melo

jthig32 · 05-08-2014, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So "life after Dirk" would pretty much be the same as Minny's "life after Garnett" (as in Carmello Anthony can be our empty stats All-Star equivalent of their empty stats All-Star, Kevin Love)?

Yeah, I might have to start looking into how to pass as a Heat fan in public because I'm sure as sh!t not rooting for Melo in a Mavs uniform... I want to see us try to win a ring sometime before my crotch turns gray.

I'll take either one of those "empty stats all stars" in a heartbeat. Go look at what Love's on/off court numbers look like this past season. He has some issues, sure, but he's an incredible player.

Underdog · 05-08-2014, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'll take either one of those "empty stats all stars" in a heartbeat. Go look at what Love's on/off court numbers look like this past season. He has some issues, sure, but he's an incredible player.

W/L is all I need to see... When was the last time either of those guys got their team anywhere? All the stats in the world don't mean squat if you can't win games.

LonghornDub · 05-08-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So "life after Dirk" would pretty much be the same as Minny's "life after Garnett" (as in Carmello Anthony can be our empty stats All-Star equivalent of their empty stats All-Star, Kevin Love)?

Yeah, I might have to start looking into how to pass as a Heat fan in public because I'm sure as sh!t not rooting for Melo in a Mavs uniform... I want to see us try to win a ring sometime before my crotch turns gray.

I actually think it could be worse than that, perhaps, because Kevin Love is IMO a better franchise cornerstone than Melo. And I say that even though I think Melo is a very good player.

On the other hand, the Mavs can attract better players than Minny, and Carlisle can do better things with them once they're here (due respect to Adelman). So I'm not sure it'd be quite that bad. But it certainly wouldn't be as good as the past 16 years.

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'll take either one of those "empty stats all stars" in a heartbeat. Go look at what Love's on/off court numbers look like this past season. He has some issues, sure, but he's an incredible player.

Loves +- numbers are great but some of that is just awful coaching. The reason his numbers(and steph currys) are that great is because they play hardly any time with the bench. It's great for your stars numbers, but bad for the team. That's actually one of the reasons dirks plus minus numbers while nowhere near as good as theirs, are equally impressive.

LonghornDub · 05-08-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

You realize that melo turns 30 in 2 weeks. If you get melo, immediately after you start planning for life after dirk, you have to start planning for life after melo

I do realize that. I also realize that there's no <30 year old superstar available right now.

(Until, of course, the Mavs get KD in two years.)

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I do realize that. I also realize that there's no <30 year old superstar available right now.

(Until, of course, the Mavs get KD in two years.)

I'm not against getting melo, I'm just saying if you get him, you are getting him to try to win in the next two years... Because after that it's highly unlikely dirk is still "dirk" and melo is then as old as dirk was after the title. Which i have no problem with, I just disagree on the reasoning. And unlike some others I actually see melo as a great fit here. I know he shoots a lot but he also can create his own shot, knock down open 3s( or space the floor when he doesn't have the ball) and he rebounds like a monster for a 3. He's also a better defender than he gets credit for when he wants to be. He's nowhere near prime matrix defensively, but I don't think he'd be a huge(if any) step down from the corpse of Shawn that played this year defensively and he might actually be a net improvement considering he wouldn't be asked to do as many things that he's not capable of doing.

spreedom · 05-08-2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

W/L is all I need to see... When was the last time either of those guys got their team anywhere? All the stats in the world don't mean squat if you can't win games.

Love has never had a good enough supporting cast, especially with the West how it has been for the last five years, to make the playoffs. This year they were close, but even then, they were missing Pekovic for almost half the season and their only 3pt weapon off the bench, Budinger, was either injured or terrible all year.

Long story short, I put zero blame on Love for his team missing the playoffs. If you put him on this year's Mavs team instead of Dirk, they might actually be even better.

Underdog · 05-08-2014, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Love has never had a good enough supporting cast, especially with the West how it has been for the last five years, to make the playoffs. This year they were close, but even then, they were missing Pekovic for almost half the season and their only 3pt weapon off the bench, Budinger, was either injured or terrible all year.

Long story short, I put zero blame on Love for his team missing the playoffs. If you put him on this year's Mavs team instead of Dirk, they might actually be even better.

Don't try your rational arguments on me... Ain't nobody got time for that!

spreedom · 05-08-2014, 11:05 AM

One thing that just occurred to me about Sanders... the Bucks could really use a PG like Calderon....

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Don't try your rational arguments on me... Ain't nobody got time for that!

It's not really all that valid though. Pek, Rubio, Martin, brewer and filler isn't that awful.

LonghornDub · 05-08-2014, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I'm not against getting melo, I'm just saying if you get him, you are getting him to try to win in the next two years... Because after that it's highly unlikely dirk is still "dirk" and melo is then as old as dirk was after the title. Which i have no problem with, I just disagree on the reasoning. And unlike some others I actually see melo as a great fit here. I know he shoots a lot but he also can create his own shot, knock down open 3s( or space the floor when he doesn't have the ball) and he rebounds like a monster for a 3. He's also a better defender than he gets credit for when he wants to be. He's nowhere near prime matrix defensively, but I don't think he'd be a huge(if any) step down from the corpse of Shawn that played this year defensively and he might actually be a net improvement considering he wouldn't be asked to do as many things that he's not capable of doing.

I actually agree that Melo isn't an awful fit. Very good players are rarely "awful fits" in any situation. I think he's "less than ideal" to pair with Dirk, but that's a completely relative thing. "Ideal" is a mobile defensive center, a three-and-D SF, a excellent passing PG with defensive tenacity, etc.

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 11:29 AM

For those of you who tout loves plus minus understand that he played 2.6 percent of his minutes this year with less than 2 other starters with him. Dirk on the other hand played 20.7 percent of his minutes with less than 2 other starters. Thats not his fault(he doesn't set the rotation) but using a star to prop up bench units by himself also hurts that stars plus minus numbers.

Also on melo for what it's worth, he had a bigger positive effect on the Knicks d then chandler did. The more I think about it/look into, the more it makes sense. He also can obviously play small ball 4 when dirk is on the bench. One of our huge problems this year is we had too many minutes when we basically had no strengths. With melo Its easier to stagger the minutes to where we always have at least 1 if not two star scorers on the floor plus where we always have at least 1 of shooting or size/rebounding.

mavs777 · 05-08-2014, 11:38 AM

Wait people really think Kevin Love is an empty stats player? Look at how crazy his on/off numbers are with Minny, are you really blaming him for not bringing Minny to the playoffs in a loaded west when all of their wings basically suck and they had a crappy bench?

Melo absolutely cannot do it alone, he isn't a top 10 player plain and simple, but if you get the right guys around him he is effective. Melo still holds the ball too much but he has really become a lethal catch and shoot guy, with Dirk, Monta's penetration, he would get more chances to be that guy.

The main issue with bringing Melo is that he is much better defensively at the 4 than the 3.

mavs777 · 05-08-2014, 11:41 AM

I would prefer Bosh to Melo honestly tho, I don't understand why the Mavs do not want Bosh, his pick n roll defense is amazing (one of the best in the league), he is a great offensive player and he is a very smart defender, Miami's actually made him into a good defender. Still he wouldn't leave Miami so I can't be too upset

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Wait people really think Kevin Love is an empty stats player? Look at how crazy his on/off numbers are with Minny, are you really blaming him for not bringing Minny to the playoffs in a loaded west when all of their wings basically suck and they had a crappy bench?

Melo absolutely cannot do it alone, he isn't a top 10 player plain and simple, but if you get the right guys around him he is effective. Melo still holds the ball too much but he has really become a lethal catch and shoot guy, with Dirk, Monta's penetration, he would get more chances to be that guy.

The main issue with bringing Melo is that he is much better defensively at the 4 than the 3.

Melo is a better player than love.

mavs777 · 05-08-2014, 11:47 AM

At the end of day here would be my FA list (I'm including everyone even guys I think we have no shot at)

1. Lebron
2. Bosh
3. Melo
4. Lowry
5. Gortat
6. IT2 (but only if you can work out sign and trade as they will match and no need to waste time)
7. Hayward (same as IT2)
8. Deng
9. Ariza
10. Patterson (would be really good backup to dirk)

Guys I don't want under any circumstance: Lance, Rudy, Monroe

mavs777 · 05-08-2014, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Melo is a better player than love.

The gap is huge. Love is a much better rebounder, low post scorer, finisher, he doesn't dumb mid range shots. Melo might be slightly better catch and shoot and that is all.

Five-ofan · 05-08-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

The gap is huge. Love is a much better rebounder, low post scorer, finisher, he doesn't dumb mid range shots. Melo might be slightly better catch and shoot and that is all.

Since when does love have a better post game than melo??? Since when is he a better finisher? You know what their shooting %s were last year? .457/.376/.821 for love, .452/.402/.848 for melo. Considering love is so much better from everywhere than melo that seems odd when you also remember that love basically played ALL of his minutes with starters.

Melo is a better defender(at the 4 too) better shooter, better shot creator, and an equivalent rebounder relative to position. Melo is a better player. Melo has also had success as the
Man. Love? Not so much.

Kante · 05-08-2014, 12:40 PM

Love is stat padder who does not want to block shots. Instead he tries to get the rebound even if he has a chance to alter the shot.

mac222b · 05-08-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Since when does love have a better post game than melo??? Since when is he a better finisher? You know what their shooting %s were last year? .457/.376/.821 for love, .452/.402/.848 for melo. Considering love is so much better from everywhere than melo that seems odd when you also remember that love basically played ALL of his minutes with starters.

Melo is a better defender(at the 4 too) better shooter, better shot creator, and an equivalent rebounder relative to position. Melo is a better player. Melo has also had success as the
Man. Love? Not so much.

Agree with all of this. If Melo wants to come here you make it work. Salary, spacing, all of it

Sportstudi · 05-08-2014, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Maybe he'll think of his team first and take less money

jthig32 · 05-08-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

For those of you who tout loves plus minus understand that he played 2.6 percent of his minutes this year with less than 2 other starters with him. Dirk on the other hand played 20.7 percent of his minutes with less than 2 other starters. Thats not his fault(he doesn't set the rotation) but using a star to prop up bench units by himself also hurts that stars plus minus numbers.

I'm not sure I agree that it hurts the plus minus numbers, because the way Rick adjusts his lineup to get Dirk time with the bench means he's also playing against bench players from the other team. That second lineup with Dirk did a ton of heavy lifting for this team. Meanwhile, the four other starters always have to finish the rest of the first and third quarters without Dirk against the starts from the other team.

There's a reason Wright/Crowder/Devin/Crowder have some of the best net +/-'s on the team.

Sportstudi · 05-08-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

It's not really all that valid though. Pek, Rubio, Martin, brewer and filler isn't that awful.

True. Love's stats are amazing, but I'm not sure if he has that killer instinct which is needed to go deep into the playoffs, yet alone to win the title. Sure, he hasn't played a playoff game yet, but I'm not that sure if he has what it takes. He's still young though.

Sportstudi · 05-08-2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Since when does love have a better post game than melo??? Since when is he a better finisher? You know what their shooting %s were last year? .457/.376/.821 for love, .452/.402/.848 for melo. Considering love is so much better from everywhere than melo that seems odd when you also remember that love basically played ALL of his minutes with starters.

Melo is a better defender(at the 4 too) better shooter, better shot creator, and an equivalent rebounder relative to position. Melo is a better player. Melo has also had success as the
Man. Love? Not so much.

Love doesn't play any defense. Instead of going for the block he tries to position himself for the defensive rebound, no matter if he opens a straight line to the cup for the attacking player.

jthig32 · 05-08-2014, 02:25 PM

It's not like the Wolves were terrible this year. They got incredibly unlucky in close games and they were being coached by a guy with one foot out the door.

Their starting does have talent, and coincidentally their starting lineup performed pretty well. It was their bench that absolutely destroyed them, based on my understanding.

I think Love has warts of his own (he absolutely obsesses too much on his rebounds) but I'll gladly take either Love or Melo on this team in a heartbeat.