PGDT: Mavs (0-0) at Bucks (0-0) 7:00 mavs.com

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

The kind of playground ball that the Mavs played the whole game yesterday shouldn't be used as a guide for who is good and who isn't.

Hinton looked great, but he only proved that he could play in playground ball. In a disciplined system, he's yet to show much. I want him to get a shot, but last night was not a good indicator of how he will be in the structured NBA.

Terry was forced to be a primary ballhandler in that system and he honestly looked like ass, but next to a playmaker like Luka or Brunson and in a structured offense, he could be a passable ballhandler while finding himself open more to be really effective as a shooter.

Green was pretty poised, but he's got a ways to go before he'll understand our system on offense and defense.

Well its awful early to buckle myself in on the Hinton bandwagon. You make a solid point about the free run playground type ball, but Rick Rick needs to find a way to cater to that if they are producing like he did. Besides its the second unit so it should be easier to adjust the offensive constraints.

I hope like hell he ends up being a big diamond that was overlooked.

[NeedlesKane]

Gotta love how NBA.com has 5 minutes 42 seconds unaccounted for in the box score. They did not include Devonte Patterson. He had 1 assist and 3 points.

[SMC0007]

WCS looked pretty good too. Stayed in the flow, made good decisions and played solid defense. Ill keep on saying it but he deserves more Powell minutes.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Fell asleep near halftime.

How was WCS? Was disappointed to not see him starting. Powell is such a defensive liability it’s not fun seeing the same stuff year after year when they stressed defensive minded this offseason.

What I saw was pretty sloppy but it’s preseason and guys haven’t had enough time. Lot of road games to start the season too.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's the first preseason game, and Rick doesn't get his lineup set until like the 2 quarter of the regular season...and he makes changes after that, still.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

WCS looked pretty good too. Stayed in the flow, made good decisions and played solid defense. Ill keep on saying it but he deserves more Powell minutes.

I just can't believe we have to go through another season with an achilles injury to worry about. Years of Wes Matthews not being the same player but being forced minutes was brutal. Will the FO really not learn their lesson from that?

Powell can still have a role as a backup, but WCS is the guy to fill in for KP. If WCS wasn't a better defender, then I wouldn't care. But it's not really even close.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just can't believe we have to go through another season with an achilles injury to worry about. Years of Wes Matthews not being the same player but being forced minutes was brutal. Will the FO really not learn their lesson from that?

Powell can still have a role as a backup, but WCS is the guy to fill in for KP. If WCS wasn't a better defender, then I wouldn't care. But it's not really even close.

Yea. I still believe that tenure and hard work is more valuable to Rick than what guys do in games. Best case scenario might be that he starts subbing him or dfs out earlier.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

WCS looked pretty good too. Stayed in the flow, made good decisions and played solid defense. Ill keep on saying it but he deserves more Powell minutes.

I continue to be amazed by his ability to catch the ball especially in traffic and he moves like a gazelle even at that height.

But something tells me in order for him to replace Powell he's going to need perfect play.

Powell as someone stated earlier just seems to have that glue guy effect with Carlisle and he's going to be forced fed minutes no matter what.

Without KP early in the season I believe WCS is the best option because he provides some rim protection but that's just my opinion.

[EricaLubarsky]

I don't think anyone on DM.com thinks that Powell should start and WCS should scrap for minutes

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I continue to be amazed by his ability to catch the ball especially in traffic and he moves like a gazelle even at that height.

But something tells me in order for him to replace Powell he's going to need perfect play.

Powell as someone stated earlier just seems to have that glue guy effect with Carlisle and he's going to be forced fed minutes no matter what.

Without KP early in the season I believe WCS is the best option because he provides some rim protection but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't think anyone on DM.com thinks that Powell should start and WCS should scrap for minutes

You're not the only one, I think the vast majority share that opinion. Rightfully so. No one tries harder than DP, but its still not quite enough for anyone to feel comfortable...apparently besides Rick. He's gonna have to meet WCS half way with bad play in order to not start. I don't think it would shock anyone here if DP moved to PFand DFS went to the bench when KP comes back.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I've been saying for years RC's favorite stats in PG interviews are +- and live ball turnovers. Dwight Powell led the team in +- per 100 possessions according to bbref and tied with DFS for team lead in on/off +-. So as long as that remains true he's going to get the most mins of the center options outside of KP.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You're not the only one, I think the vast majority share that opinion. Rightfully so. No one tries harder than DP, but its still not quite enough for anyone to feel comfortable...apparently besides Rick.

Does everyone feel comfortable they know exactly what they'd get with WCS? I doubt it. I suspect we're all more in Rick's camp than everyone thinks. We see potential, and upside, and positive things on one side of the ball, but comfortable? I don't think so. I'm not. Rick likes DP because he is VERY comfortable with what he'll get from DP, and can plan around it. Rick also sees what players put in in practice, and we don't. Been other WCS' that everyone thought should start, but they didn't because Rick didn't see the effort and work off the court, where none of us see it.

He's gonna have to meet WCS half way with bad play in order to not start. I don't think it would shock anyone here if DP moved to PFand DFS went to the bench when KP comes back.

Again, RC doesn't set the starting lineup until after about the first 25 games, if even then. WCS needs to work his ass of in practice. That's what Rick sees, and that is what gets players game time. Is he? Don't know.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I've been saying for years RC's favorite stats in PG interviews are +- and live ball turnovers. Dwight Powell led the team in +- per 100 possessions according to bbref and tied with DFS for team lead in on/off +-. So as long as that remains true he's going to get the most mins of the center options outside of KP.

If he's leading the team in +-, why wouldn't we want him getting the most minutes??

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I think it's also just the way he plays. The dude absorbs a LOT of contact on his drives.

All the more reason to make sure you're in fantastic shape.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Does everyone feel comfortable they know exactly what they'd get with WCS? I doubt it. I suspect we're all more in Rick's camp than everyone thinks. We see potential, and upside, and positive things on one side of the ball, but comfortable? I don't think so. I'm not. Rick likes DP because he is VERY comfortable with what he'll get from DP, and can plan around it. Rick also sees what players put in in practice, and we don't. Been other WCS' that everyone thought should start, but they didn't because Rick didn't see the effort and work off the court, where none of us see it.



Again, RC doesn't set the starting lineup until after about the first 25 games, if even then. WCS needs to work his ass of in practice. That's what Rick sees, and that is what gets players game time. Is he? Don't know.

I mean honestly no, there's no way anyone could feel comfortable with what WCS would bring. The proof just isnt in the pudding quite yet. I think the point is more about DP is what he is and its not worth passing up realizing potential in others. I think the obvious is that WCS shows more potential but Rick doesn't trust him fully yet, Understandably. I'm not saying Rick is ignoring an obvious move in starting WCS at the moment as if he is clearly better.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

If he's leading the team in +-, why wouldn't we want him getting the most minutes??

Just to clarify I never said I don't personally. Many Mavs fans think WCS is the next TC though and that Powell is some sort of glaring obvious problem. I'm sure plenty of stats support Powell being bad for us according to some metric or another I just know RC loves +- so as long as that metric shows Powell being our best option or close to it he's going to remain in his role.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Just to clarify I never said I don't personally. Many Mavs fans think WCS is the next TC though and that Powell is some sort of glaring obvious problem. I'm sure plenty of stats support Powell being bad for us according to some metric or another I just know RC loves +- so as long as that metric shows Powell being our best option or close to it he's going to remain in his role.

I really don't like when people make false generalizations. Who on earth actually thinks WCS is the next Tyson Chandler?

Powell's defense is terrible and any ridiculous advanced stat that says otherwise isn't to be taken seriously. He also isn't a very good rebounder either and gets manhandled by other bigs at his position.

He is one of the best rim rollers in the league, and that's about all he does really well. Pretty sure WCS would also be a great rim roller given his size, athleticism and mobility if given the same chance.

Defense is still the key word here.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I think it's also just the way he plays. The dude absorbs a LOT of contact on his drives.

All the more reason to make sure you're in fantastic shape.

[EricaLubarsky]

Among centers

Defense
WCS is 8th in defensive rating per minute
Powell is 32nd in defensive rating per minute
Boban is 46th in defensive rating per minute

defense
Boban is 9th in offensive rating per minute
Powell is 23rd
WCS is 57th

Seems pretty clear what WCS has to do-- figure out how to not be terrible offensively.
Powell is

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't think anyone on DM.com thinks that Powell should start and WCS should scrap for minutes

I don’t know why Powell wouldn’t start. He was the starter when he went down, and he’s only played one preseason game since coming back. We have no idea how he’s going to play yet, and there isn’t exactly a mountain of evidence supporting the idea that WCS is better.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I really don't like when people make false generalizations. Who on earth actually thinks WCS is the next Tyson Chandler?

Powell's defense is terrible and any ridiculous advanced stat that says otherwise isn't to be taken seriously. He also isn't a very good rebounder either and gets manhandled by other bigs at his position.

He is one of the best rim rollers in the league, and that's about all he does really well. Pretty sure WCS would also be a great rim roller given his size, athleticism and mobility if given the same chance.

Defense is still the key word here.

It's not a false generalization. Ever since we acquired him Mavs fans from all over have compared him(his potential to be exact) to TC. It's been on twitter, I've seen it here, it's been on other mavs forums, reddit etc. So much so that I finally had to ask not long ago on here in the off season thread why the hell I keep seeing that comparison.

I personally didn't give any defensive metric to say Powell is good. Only stat I referenced was +-, and the only reason I did is because I feel like RC has a very public love affair with +- and he would take that into account. Idk if that is directed at me or just a generalization but I've literally never used a stat to try and claim Powell is a good defender.

I think WCS is a better defender than Powell just like everyone else. I just assume there is a reason why he wouldn't start. Perhaps with improved perimeter defense we want the better roll man in the starting lineup while kp is out. And maybe with tiny guards in the 2nd lineup they want a better defender at the 5. Maybe Luka just has a really good chemistry with Powell. Could literally be anything.... Including Rick thinking he's a better player(what I think and what I was referring to). I think Powell is more suited off the bench. I just think WCS isn't a starter either and based on his last 2 free agencies I think the majority of the NBA thinks similarly.

[MFFL]

I think Carlisle is playing Powell a lot to see where he's at in games that don't count

Powell will be averaging less than 20 minutes this season

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I think Carlisle is playing Powell a lot to see where he's at in games that don't count

Powell will be averaging less than 20 minutes this season

One can hope

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I think Carlisle is playing Powell a lot to see where he's at in games that don't count

Powell will be averaging less than 20 minutes this season

It'll be tricky because even if you want to move him, then you'll likely have to play him. Flip side is if he is terrible with minutes, then that could backfire.

I don't want Powell benched for good, but I really, really want to be a stout defensive team this season.

[EricaLubarsky]

It's only going to get trickier when KP comes back and starts at center.

You’re right— we have to try to make Powell look good. We have this and two more years of him in contract and there’s nothing to be gained by making him look bad, but we also have KP coming back in a few weeks and that logjam is just going to get worse

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's only going to get trickier when KP comes back and starts at center.

You’re right— we have to try to make Powell look good. We have this and two more years of him in contract and there’s nothing to be gained by making him look bad, but we also have KP coming back in a few weeks and that logjam is just going to get worse

Ugh, I REALLY hope Carlisle doesn't keep starting Powell and move KP back to the 4. As sad as it was, I don't think it was any coincidence that KP started to look like an all star again almost immediately after Powell went down. KP needs to be in pick and rolls and have the offense run through him- at least to the degree that it runs through anyone other than Luka. The last thing we need is for KP to spend most of his time camping out behind the 3 pt line like he was for the first half of last season. He's a scorer who can shoot, but he is not a pure shooter.