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Old 04-17-2003, 01:21 PM   #41
DwD
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LRB, unfortunately most people don't get both sides of the story in many cases like this, and are thus in the dark about the real goings-on in the Middle East. I am not saying what I pointed out just now is the complete truth and that everyone should believe it. I have been following the Rachel Corrie story for a while and heard about the ISM hiding terrorists, so most of the questions raised by the article seem very plausible to me.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:56 PM   #42
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These statements are categorically wrong.

}Why does Palestine have the right to exist as a formal territory? The Palestinians have never owned land. They have always squated and been migratory.

They do not have any right to the land.


and

The Palestinian people were there, but it was not their land prior to the formation of Israel. They were exiled from elsewhere. Historically, the Palestinian people have never owned land of their own. Hence, they do not have a right to claim the land.

Israel fought for the land and won. It's an old benefit of war...you win, you get real estate.


The Palestinian refugees were for the most part people that did own their land, as many were farmers, and many were living in cities and owned their homes. They (unfortunately) fled when the Arabs attacked the new State of Israel, thinking they could avoid what they thought was the violence of war before a quick victory for the arabs. They were wrong, they should have stayed, and they have been refugees ever since. The UN has administered the refugee camps since then...over 50 years!

The Isrealis were the ones who didn't own much title to land, as there was an Arab backlash to the inmigration of the Jews to then British Palestine in the 20's and 30's, Arab nationalists persecuted those Arabs who sold their land to the Jews. Following from American-Israeli Cooperation Enterprise:

The Economist...reported on October 2, 1948: "Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit....It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."

Time's report of the battle for Haifa (May 3, 1948) was similar: "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by orders of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city....By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

Benny Morris, the historian who documented instances where Palestinians were expelled, also found that Arab leaders encouraged their brethren to leave. The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: "Any opposition to this order...is an obstacle to the holy war...and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts" (Middle Eastern Studies, January 1986).


Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:

In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.


IMHO the failure of the moderates in both Israel and among the Arabs to resolve the conflict is due to the extremists on both sides prevailing; the extremist Israelis who have built settlements on occupied land and cannot accept a State of Israel with Jews and Arabs living together, and the Palestinian extremists who have formented the rise and adoration of terrorists among the Palestinians as a way to acheive their goals. Neither extremist position will lead to peace but rather to more and more suffering on both sides.

However, back to the original point, to suggest that the Palestinians have no rights due to their never having any ownership of land is wrong. To state that the adage "might makes right" is legitimate and a conquering nation has rights to that teritory conquered is the type of mentality that has led us to this regrettably continued and neverending conflict.

edited for my poor typing
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