Your Texas Rangers!: Official 2009 Thread - Page 21 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 07-25-2009, 03:51 PM

I think Harrison bumping Holland to the bullpen would have give the Rangers a better chance at doing something this seasons, and wouldn't have hurt Holland's development long term.

On the positive side, it might bring Feliz into the bullpen quicker.

mavspwnage · 07-25-2009, 05:07 PM

This is just BRUTAL. Twins were up 2-0 on the Angels, but the Angels scored NINE runs in the 4th to take over. This is getting ridiculous.

Five-ofan · 07-26-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Harrison may become a solid end of the rotation starter, or maybe, eventually, a decent bullpen guy, in a long relief/spot start role or something. I have my doubts, because I don't see that upside that I should see. But he's had some solid outings, had that scoreless streak back in May, and I'm not going to say he'll never become anything.

However, I didn't want Harrison to come back and replace Holland or Hunter (barring a total collapse from the latter) because I consider both having significantly more upside. Holland could and should be an ace. Hunter isn't an ace, but I still think he has more upside than Harrison.

So in a way, I'm glad he's out for the year. In a way.

Holland should be an ace? Which definition are you using? If youo go with what the generally accepted definition is, there are around 10-20 aces in all of baseball. Its pretty tough to say a kid SHOULD be one of the 10-20 best pitchers in all of baseball.

Murphy3 · 07-26-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Harrison is still awfully young to be throwing around the idea that he won't ever stick. Saying you don't see anything in his game that makes you think of a big league pitcher seems to be overstating things.

But Murph's point is valid. In the past we would have been devastated by an Eric Hurley and a Matt Harrison suffering severe injuries. Now it's just an opportunity for another young pitcher.

Like I said about Harrison when it comes to pitching in the majors.. "I think he can".. I'm not sure, but "I think he can"

tcat075 · 07-26-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Holland should be an ace? Which definition are you using? If youo go with what the generally accepted definition is, there are around 10-20 aces in all of baseball. Its pretty tough to say a kid SHOULD be one of the 10-20 best pitchers in all of baseball.

Alright, saying Holland should be an ace is wrong, but if this kid lives up to his hype whatsoever, then he's going to be a really good pitcher, a borderline ace if not one.

tcat075 · 07-26-2009, 07:59 AM

This offense is making me nauseous. Its horrible. Josh, Jones and Blalock were a combined 1-for-11 with 9 punchouts. That's terrible. 16 total K's in that game.

In the past 4 games, the Rangers are 6-34 with RISP.

That's a .176 batting average.

Of course, if you realize that the team batting average the past 4 days has been .162, then the average with RISP isn't so bad.

Five-ofan · 07-26-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Alright, saying Holland should be an ace is wrong, but if this kid lives up to his hype whatsoever, then he's going to be a really good pitcher, a borderline ace if not one.

really? Everything Ive read has holland with a CEILING of a number 2

alexamenos · 07-26-2009, 03:20 PM

if Kinsler sprints out that pop-up, he might have been standing on 2nd when Young hit the ground ball into left. I don't know for certain that he could have made it, but at least it'd be nice to run it out to first.

Flacolaco · 07-26-2009, 03:48 PM

Holy crap.

Ian Kinsler knows how to hit a single.

Murphy3 · 07-26-2009, 04:33 PM

Yeah, I've seen Holland's ceiling as a #1 in numerous places.. but most project him as a #2. Obviously we understand the difference between ceiling and projection.

mavspwnage · 07-26-2009, 05:29 PM

Angels are losing 10-1 in the 9th. Could this possibly happen?!

mavspwnage · 07-26-2009, 05:42 PM

ANGELS LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mavspwnage · 07-26-2009, 08:35 PM

Rangers becoming skilled thieves

yep

chumdawg · 07-26-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

Rangers becoming skilled thieves

yep

Nice article.

mavspwnage · 07-26-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Nice article.

Thanks dude! It's a little shorter than usual, but I wanted to get one out because I was running a little behind my normal schedule.

tcat075 · 07-26-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

really? Everything Ive read has holland with a CEILING of a number 2

Don't know what you've been reading, then. Holland is touted as an extremely good prospect with an extremely high ceiling. His off-speed stuff is promising, his fastball is great, his pickoff is unrefined but extremely good. He has pinpoint command, can paint the corners (or, as time goes on, will be able to), and doesn't let adversity get to him. Ceiling of a #2 is wrong, imo.

If I was on my computer, I'd go find some stuff that says Holland could be a future ace, but I'm not. I may briefly look around, but probably will be to no avail.

Five-ofan · 07-26-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Don't know what you've been reading, then. Holland is touted as an extremely good prospect with an extremely high ceiling. His off-speed stuff is promising, his fastball is great, his pickoff is unrefined but extremely good. He has pinpoint command, can paint the corners (or, as time goes on, will be able to), and doesn't let adversity get to him. Ceiling of a #2 is wrong, imo.

If I was on my computer, I'd go find some stuff that says Holland could be a future ace, but I'm not. I may briefly look around, but probably will be to no avail.

a 2 IS a high ceiling. Cole Hamels is a 2. Mark Buehrle is a 2. Holland is a different pitcher than both of those guys obviously but to say he has a ceiling at that level isnt exactly a knock on a guy.

Could he outperform that ceiling? Sure. (which i understand begs the question of if it was actually his ceiling to begin with.)

chumdawg · 07-26-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

a 2 IS a high ceiling. Cole Hamels is a 2. Mark Buehrle is a 2. Holland is a different pitcher than both of those guys obviously but to say he has a ceiling at that level isnt exactly a knock on a guy.

Could he outperform that ceiling? Sure. (which i understand begs the question of if it was actually his ceiling to begin with.)

I'm just curious...how many 1's are there, presently, in MLB?

Five-ofan · 07-27-2009, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm just curious...how many 1's are there, presently, in MLB?

somewhere between 10 and 20. I havent looked at the exact list. The dividing line is basically john lackey. Hes a 2 but hes probably at the very top end of 2s.

jthig32 · 07-27-2009, 07:38 AM

I think Five-ofan is basically saying a 1 is an ace. I tend to think of it as there's aces, then there's a rotation 1 and a rotation 2.

It's just semantics.

Murphy3 · 07-27-2009, 08:21 AM

Yeah, but when a guy is projected as a #2 starter while he's in the minors, the ceiling is often a #1. Many had Holland projected as a #2 with a ceiling as a #1. And this is what 5-0 is using in his posts.. a #1 starter.

Five-ofan · 07-27-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Five-ofan is basically saying a 1 is an ace. I tend to think of it as there's aces, then there's a rotation 1 and a rotation 2.

It's just semantics.

thats cool. Obviously just because its how I interpret it, it doesnt mean its right.

chumdawg · 07-27-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Five-ofan is basically saying a 1 is an ace. I tend to think of it as there's aces, then there's a rotation 1 and a rotation 2.

It's just semantics.

That's how I took it, too...meaning that not every team has a true "#1" starter...which is why I wondering how many guys in the league qualify for that "ace" distinction.

Kinda like how in the NFL draft there are usually around 20 guys with a first-round grade, even though obviously there will be 32 "first rounders" after the fact.

Incidentally, are there any teams in MLB right now that have two #1's? Did Atlanta have two last decade? I guess it was Glavin who was their second best guy?

mavspwnage · 07-27-2009, 08:41 PM

Elvis Andrus is a bad ass. He is such an intelligent base runner. I can't get enough of this kid.

Kirobaito · 07-27-2009, 10:01 PM

Man, it's so great to see Tommy Hunter become the Rogers Clemens/John Smoltz hybrid we all knew he'd be.

Five-ofan · 07-27-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's how I took it, too...meaning that not every team has a true "#1" starter...which is why I wondering how many guys in the league qualify for that "ace" distinction.

Kinda like how in the NFL draft there are usually around 20 guys with a first-round grade, even though obviously there will be 32 "first rounders" after the fact.

Incidentally, are there any teams in MLB right now that have two #1's? Did Atlanta have two last decade? I guess it was Glavin who was their second best guy?

atlanta had 3 at one point. Maddux, glavine and smoltz were all 1s. Lincecum and cain would probably both be 1s(lincecum has been since hes been in the league, cain just got there this year) If webb was healthy the Dbacks have Haren and Webb whod probably qualify(and one of the more famous dual aces combo ever when they had johnson and schilling)

Flacolaco · 07-27-2009, 11:00 PM

G#$ Damnit the Angels are awesome. This is so frustrating.

mavspwnage · 07-28-2009, 12:03 AM

holy shit!!!!! Victor Martinez just hit a 3-run HR in the top of the 9th, and the Indians take a 7-6 lead. I'm trying not to get my hopes up though because it wouldn't surprise me in the least for the Angels to come back and win. It would be typical with the way the last week has gone for them.

edit: Peralta makes it back-to-back, 8-6!

mavspwnage · 07-28-2009, 12:19 AM

Angels lose.

Murphy3 · 07-28-2009, 01:34 PM

You could make an argument that Millwood has been a true #1 for at least the majority of the season. I wouldn't object to him being called so mostly due to his ERA (especially considering he plays half his games at the ballpark) and his innings pitched. Plus he seems to pitch well when the Rangers are in a bit of a tailspin.

I might call him a true #1 for this year..but I wouldn't make the argument that he is a true #1..just perhaps pitching a tick over his head.

Five-ofan · 07-28-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You could make an argument that Millwood has been a true #1 for at least the majority of the season. I wouldn't object to him being called so mostly due to his ERA (especially considering he plays half his games at the ballpark) and his innings pitched. Plus he seems to pitch well when the Rangers are in a bit of a tailspin.

I might call him a true #1 for this year..but I wouldn't make the argument that he is a true #1..just perhaps pitching a tick over his head.

i would. Millwood is the anti holland, hes been insanely lucky. Dont get me wrong, hes been very good but hes nowhere near a true 1.

tcat075 · 07-28-2009, 06:41 PM

Padilla scratched w/ flu.

Mathis is spot-starting.

Moscoso is up with the team and Eyre is sent down. Moscoso can give the team more innings than Eyre can, plus he was scheduled to make a start in AAA today so he's rested and it doesn't screw up his usual pitching routine. If I had to bet, I'd bet Moscoso come in after Mathis. Hopefully, they go 7 innings combined. I'd be happy if they allowed >5 runs.

Hopefully the offense can have a one-day resurgence.

Although I will say, we've been surprised by Hunter and Nippert. Why not Mathis and Moscoso?

Flacolaco · 07-28-2009, 07:36 PM

L

mavspwnage · 07-28-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

L

Not so fast.

Great answer by the Rangers. Give up 3, then score 4.

chumdawg · 07-28-2009, 08:49 PM

The Rangers aren't taking no crap off nobody. In fact, they may have a good mind tonight to kick the crap out of the Tiggers, just for good measure.

mavspwnage · 07-28-2009, 09:42 PM

Dirkadirkastan · 07-28-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

L

...plastered right on Flaco's forehead.

mkat · 07-28-2009, 10:22 PM

niiiiice win. we inch ever closer to that division title.

mavspwnage · 07-28-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

...plastered right on Flaco's forehead.

Murphy3 · 07-28-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

i would. Millwood is the anti holland, hes been insanely lucky. Dont get me wrong, hes been very good but hes nowhere near a true 1.

The results are very near a true #1. Holland hasn't been unlucky. He throws batting fastballs (only faster) far too often and they get hit a long way. He has trouble keeping the ball down when that's his intention.. and he misses towards the middle of the plate far too often with his fastball.

You are very, very full of yourself when it comes to your baseball opinions. You need to ratchet it down a notch.