Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[JeffViggiano]

Marco Belinelli from san giovanni persiceto!!!!

f**k the heat!

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

Marco Belinelli from san giovanni persiceto!!!!

f**k the heat!

Go back to last offseason's thread here. I was the only guy that was saying to sign Belineli. I knew the guy was a sleeper pick up. He has great basketball IQ and is a great shooter. I was literally screaming for the mavs to pick this guy up on this forum. This isn't some revisionist history. Look it up.

[sefant77]

Heat will trash the Bulls the next four games, book it

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

So they got played by Kidd and Fisher, is that it? Meh. I'll grant you they both pulled some douchbaggery with the Mavs, but not having Kidd on the books next year is a blessing, and while Fish would've helped had he stayed on board, he's hardly worth crying about, as he's also not a guy worth building around. Both of them are probably about to get the playoff exits they deserve, anyway, and the organizational reset button on those disappointments was hit long ago.

If you're going to persist in trying to claim that Dallas got played because they had the good sense to sit out a poor free agent market after the top guy went off the board, though, you're arguing a losing, and very misinformed, point.

So the grand plan was to to purposely let the "star" of the 2012 off season slide in order to take an even longer shot on the 2013 off season? Great plan. Oh wait! The 2014 off season is even better! Let's wait until then. But then again, in 2015 there might be something even better...

[Budapest Maverick]

The grand plan was to sign Deron, but once he choose Brooklyn, i think the FO did a very a good job, honestly.

We all said they did a great job at the time, and if Dirk would have been healthy all season, we would have made the playoffs with a bunch of 1 year contracts, in one of the toughest western conference in NBA history.

Even if we strike out on Howard and Paul, the FO did a good job. Sooner or later, we're gonna sign a superstar in free agency. You have to keep create opportunities to be able to do it, that's the way to go.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Go back to last offseason's thread here. I was the only guy that was saying to sign Belineli. I knew the guy was a sleeper pick up. He has great basketball IQ and is a great shooter. I was literally screaming for the mavs to pick this guy up on this forum. This isn't some revisionist history. Look it up.

No, you weren't the ONLY guy, A few of us were hoping for him. Don't forget he is good defender too.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

The grand plan was to sign Deron, but once he choose Brooklyn, i think the FO did a very a good job, honestly.

We all said they did a great job at the time, and if Dirk would have been healthy all season, we would have made the playoffs with a bunch of 1 year contracts, in one of the toughest western conference in NBA history.

Even if we strike out on Howard and Paul, the FO did a good job. Sooner or later, we're gonna sign a superstar in free agency. You have to keep create opportunities to be able to do it, that's the way to go.

To be honest, I think the FO did OK under those circumstances. But I give them an overall grade of D. When I see the depth of the Bulls, their 3rd stringers best team in the NBA, in fact 1 of only 2 teams to do so since January. And they did it twice (ended their streak as well). Now, I don't really thing the Bulls are going to win it all this year, or even make it past this round. But man, when you look at the team they've been able to put on the floor this year it's been astonishing what they've done.

I look to our the Mavs of the last few years and...well...meh (outside of 2011 of course, but even then it was all Dirk). Our front office has so much hanging on Dirk that without him, we are a lottery team. I freaking love Dirk. When he's on, it's magical. But the Mavs need to be able to win without him and our FO just doesn't seem to be able to evaluate talent like the better teams in the NBA. Not even just the draft, but quality free agents to create a deep bench. Given the Dirk centric team structure, there really isn't any for "sooner or later". They really have to hit now or it's looking like a long term rebuild.

Sigh...I think I'm just finally feeling the frustration of missing the playoffs...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

So the grand plan was to to purposely let the "star" of the 2012 off season slide in order to take an even longer shot on the 2013 off season? Great plan. Oh wait! The 2014 off season is even better! Let's wait until then. But then again, in 2015 there might be something even better...

Play ignorant all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that once Chris and Dwight opted into the last year of their respective deals, the top of the 2012 free agent class got a lot weaker, and the top of the 2013 free agent class got a lot stronger. That's the first thing. The second thing is that out of everything you've said about the way the Mavs handled last summer, I've yet to see any clear statement about which deal or deals they should/could have made that would have been preferrable to them having a shot at Chris or Dwight this summer.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Play ignorant all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that once Chris and Dwight opted into the last year of their respective deals, the top of the 2012 free agent class got a lot weaker, and the top of the 2013 free agent class got a lot stronger. That's the first thing. The second thing is that out of everything you've said about the way the Mavs handled last summer, I've yet to see any clear statement about which deal or deals they should/could have made that would have been preferrable to them having a shot at Chris or Dwight this summer.

Ignorant? You can't have both Paul and Howard, so you choose which your shooting for. Is your argument Paul is plan A and Howard B or vice versa? Basing the entire free agent class on the cats at the top is a fools game. This isn't the draft in which only a handful of the top ranked guys play any significant minutes. We're talking about proven players.

If shooting for Howard, Dragic was available last year signed for 4/7.5 or Jameer Nelson who signed 3/8.6, Collison would come off the bench. Kirk Hinrich was also available I believe.

If Paul, then Hibbert or Lopez were available both signed ~$13 mil

Either way J.R Smith in place of OJ Mayo.

Now you can make a solid case to the big FA that the team is only one piece away, and that piece is them. Rather than saying we only played .500, and can't offer you as much money as the team your on, but we promise we'll find the best cheap players left after we sign you.

And even in each scenario above, you now have tradable assets to make a huge deal happen which you can't make financially. A much more realistic way to attain Paul would be a sign and trade with LAC (presuming they're under the lux cap, not sure). Right now, we can't even dream of making that move as we have no assets of any real value other than Dirk. And Dirk ain't getting traded.

[oilfieldtrash]

Anyone think there are some serious red flags to Jack and him not being able to take the wheel at the end of the golden state games?
That was what J.Kidd did best when he was here.
We don't need another Collison here.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Anyone think there are some serious red flags to Jack and him not being able to take the wheel at the end of the golden state games?
That was what J.Kidd did best when he was here.
We don't need another Collison here.

You watch last night's games? Personally, I'd take Nate Robinson of Jarret Jack. Robinson is some type of freaking robot. Gets his head stepped on last series, freaking face smashed into the floor last night, leaves to get stitches, comes back and finishes with 27 points and 9 assists.

[JeffViggiano]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Heat will trash the Bulls the next four games, book it

i think the same thing.

but the bulls win in Miami without hinrich,deng and rose.great heart!

[SMC0007]

Jack didn't play quite as well as he has been, but that loss wasn't on him. Steph Curry couldn't hit a shot down the stretch and he failed to make the open pass to Barnes(?) at the end of reg or 1ot. Coach should have put a big in the game anyway after Parkers 3rd or 4th layup. It's ridiculous to do this after one game.

I'd be happy with either, given the right price tho.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Ignorant? You can't have both Paul and Howard, so you choose which your shooting for. Is your argument Paul is plan A and Howard B or vice versa?

What does it matter? They're both far better than anybody else out there. You make the call you think gives you your best chance at getting one of them and then play it through.

Basing the entire free agent class on the cats at the top is a fools game. This isn't the draft in which only a handful of the top ranked guys play any significant minutes. We're talking about proven players.

Depends on who the guys are at the top. Acting like it's not frequently the case thatthere's a massive gap between what the top guys can give you and what the (available) guys on the next rung can give you is the fool's game.

If shooting for Howard, Dragic was available last year signed for 4/7.5 or Jameer Nelson who signed 3/8.6, Collison would come off the bench. Kirk Hinrich was also available I believe.

If Paul, then Hibbert or Lopez were available both signed ~$13 mil

Either way J.R Smith in place of OJ Mayo.

All I see here are long-term, and in some cases over-large deals that would have complicated the task of clearing cap space for a run at Paul/Howard (and which are typically less useful in trades than the expiring deals that Dallas opted to use their cap space on), RFAs who clearly were not actually available to the Mavs, and a guy who almost certainly would have - and may actually have - chosen NY over Dallas.

A much more realistic way to attain Paul would be a sign and trade with LAC (presuming they're under the lux cap, not sure).

No, that absolutely would not be more realistic.

[Dirk's Knee]

Right, so when we miss on Howard and Paul and really have no long term pieces in place and go renting players again waiting for 2014 under some crazy dream that Lebron will come to Dallas, that will be the right plan as well. Sheesh. Let's remember how Howard got to LA in the first place...

EDIT: And BTW, how well did Dwight and Paul's teams do this year? There are plenty of ways to win without either of them...

[Melonhead]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ul-to-bolt-l-a

Im in agreement on Marc Steins article. Too many positives in LA for Chris Paul to leave. I got sucked in for a few days on the hope hed come here. Sure, ask if hed like to join, but dont plan on it.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Right, so when we miss on Howard and Paul and really have no long term pieces in place and go renting players again waiting for 2014 under some crazy dream that Lebron will come to Dallas, that will be the right plan as well. Sheesh. Let's remember how Howard got to LA in the first place...

You're taking far too simplistic a view of things if you really believe it's all that black and white. Different mix of players on the market, different set of circumstances on the horizon for next summer's free agent class and Dallas' likely cap situation. Just because the bulk of what you heard about and saw last summer was Deron or rentals doesn't mean that's all that was discussed, much less that those are going to be the only two options considered this summer.

[rabbitproof]

lol, at believing Paul or Howard will leave... hope never rests.

[sefant77]

No we would bring Mayo back and probably try to get Jack or Jennings and 2014 we would (after the Heat 3 opt out and resign) try to sign Gortat and Deng/Granger.

Jack or Jennings
Mayo
Deng or Granger
Dirk
Gortat

Bogut/Cousins/Okafor/Lowry are other names.

Thats their plan B after Paul/Dwight. There wont be a superstar availabe in 2014. If you cant get him this year you go the Detroit Pistons way and build a balanced team.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You're taking far too simplistic a view of things if you really believe it's all that black and white. Different mix of players on the market, different set of circumstances on the horizon for next summer's free agent class and Dallas' likely cap situation. Just because the bulk of what you heard about and saw last summer was Deron or rentals doesn't mean that's all that was discussed, much less that those are going to be the only two options considered this summer.

And now you've come full circle back to the point I was trying to make originally:

The solid roles players who can also be difference makers in the right scenarios will likely take the first better offer they get versus holding out. If Dallas waits deep into free agency working on a star, they will be picking up scraps across the board.

And before we cycle back through the whole argument, I'm not suggesting signing anyone outright before talking to the big fish, simply making some phone calls and expressing interest to try to plant the idea of Dallas in a few player's heads before they sign to other teams.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ul-to-bolt-l-a

Im in agreement on Marc Steins article. Too many positives in LA for Chris Paul to leave. I got sucked in for a few days on the hope hed come here. Sure, ask if hed like to join, but dont plan on it.

"nearly $30 million extra guaranteed that he can earn only by re-signing with the Clips."

extra guaranteed money that he can earn only...that sentence alone is such a bs.

Clippers have a coaching issue and there arent any really good coaches available (no, Phil wont go there to coach), their FO is more than questionable, i wouldnt trust their owner in terms of longterm spending and they have 30m combined in two kids that cant take any criticism - Blake and Jordan.

Jordan is overpaid and i also dont see any team taking Jordan and sending a player that would improve the Clippers.

Paul/Griffin/Jordan combined for over 50m and with an average coach wont lead the Clippers (or Paul) anywhere near the finals. Thats almost like the Nets situation...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ul-to-bolt-l-a

Im in agreement on Marc Steins article. Too many positives in LA for Chris Paul to leave. I got sucked in for a few days on the hope hed come here. Sure, ask if hed like to join, but dont plan on it.

What Stein forgot to mention, though, is that Chris Paul will be a Maverick.

[Bayliss]

What Stein forgot to mention, though, is that Chris Paul will be a Maverick.

Sure when he is nearing retirement age.... think Alex English or Fat Lever.......

[yahyes]

I think now our draft picks will be more valued. With Chris Paul potentially exploring in free agency, another good selling point could depend on who we draft first round.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

And now you've come full circle back to the point I was trying to make originally...

You do realize that:

The solid roles players who can also be difference makers in the right scenarios will likely take the first better offer they get versus holding out. If Dallas waits deep into free agency working on a star, they will be picking up scraps across the board.

and:

I'm not suggesting signing anyone outright before talking to the big fish, simply making some phone calls and expressing interest to try to plant the idea of Dallas in a few player's heads before they sign to other teams.

are not even remotely the same point, right?

At any rate, if all you're worried about is that Dallas is going to do something other than initiate contact and conversations with every single free agent that they have any interest in right from the beginning, you should stop worrying.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You do realize that:

and:

are not even remotely the same point, right?

At any rate, if all you're worried about is that Dallas is going to do something other than initiate contact and conversations with every single free agent that they have any interest in right from the beginning, you should stop worrying.

No, they are exactly the same point. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. And I'll stop worrying when I see who Dallas trots out in their season opener after failing to land Paul and Howard.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

lol, at believing Paul or Howard will leave... hope never rests.

Hope never rests, but neither do people who poo on optimists.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

One shouldn't hope to get Dwight or Paul? Mkrrr.

Real simple. Team have cap space. Team go after best player available. If best player not available, then team go after next best player. And so on and so forth...

[purplefrog]

If I was playing with Cuban's money, it seems that paying max contracts to Paul and Howard is not out of the question. Sure you go way over the salary cap for one year, but Dirk, Matrix, and Carter come off the books in 2014-2015. Dirk re-signs for Duncan like money ($10M) and then you have maybe another $10M to fill out the roster. It seems to me that if Cuban is willing to pay tax for one year then this is plausible. It would also be the best option for CP3 and Dwight because playing together is far better than the options they currently have. I'm not saying this is a likely scenario (because it is not), but I do believe that there is a pitch that can be made by the Mavs if the MBT is willing to pay the tax for one year. Are my neurons misfiring?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Sure when he is nearing retirement age.... think Alex English or Fat Lever.......

Good one, but no. It will be this summer. 2013.

I really don't get why certain people are having such a tough time grappling with this.

[Bayliss]

Longhorn... forever the optimist.

[Bayliss]

Longhorn bring the Kool Aid... not sure I'm ready to drink it just yet.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Longhorn bring the Kool Aid... not sure I'm ready to drink it just yet.

Don't sweat it, B. I'll leave a big pitcher out. Everybody feel free to dive in at your leisure.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Good one, but no. It will be this summer. 2013.

I really don't get why certain people are having such a tough time grappling with this.

F*ck yeah!

[Budapest Maverick]

I cannot imagine Paul and Howard not realizing they need to team up. In fact, they already had that plan earlier. Seems like the only logical conclusion, if you factor in their age, image, and possible legacy. Now, they can't do that on either LA team so...

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Don't sweat it, B. I'll leave a big pitcher out. Everybody feel free to dive in at your leisure.

Can you put out another one? I downed the entire thing already.

[JeffViggiano]

Howard don't leave LA,in 2014 they will sign a big FA(lebron or KD).they are the Lakers,don't forget this.

CP3 is possible for us...but only if we have signed a big man,a good big man.

[oilfieldtrash]

Let's see.. Hanging out on the beach all day or having a house in the mountains for a 28 year old multimillionaire vs living in the plains region of Texas? lmao! Tough decision...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Let's see.. Hanging out on the beach all day or having a house in the mountains for a 28 year old multimillionaire vs living in the plains region of Texas? lmao! Tough decision...

That's still a flawed argument, to an extent. Players don't live in their area where they play during the season because half of the time, they're gone.

The offseason, players usually don't stay where they play.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's still a flawed argument, to an extent. Players don't live in their area where they play during the season because half of the time, they're gone.

The offseason, players usually don't stay where they play.

And I'd be wary of a professional athlete whose main focus is on where they can party during the season.