2019 Mavs Free Agency

[Underdog]

This is from earlier, but it hasn't gotten much better...

@townbrad: Vucevic 3 fouls and zero points in 5 first-half minutes tonight. Potential summer suitors, including Mavs, must evaluate regular-season Vuc vs. playoff Vuc. Yes, Raptors are doubling him, but, man. . .

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not if he costs in the 17-20 mil range. He would be a lot more attractive if he wasn't restricted.

If Powell is worth $11 million then Brogdon is most definitely worth $17 million. We're talking about a guy who put up 50-40-90. Most importantly, he isn't just a 3&D guy. He initiated the Bucks offense and made shots at all 3 levels.

My only concern is he was a product of a great team that often had 4 shooting threats + Giannis on the squad, will he be able to sustain that efficient production? Maybe not, but if the Mavs think Luka is a generational offensive facilitator then we should be working to surround him with guys exactly like Brogdon, not guys that will slow us down like Vuc. The Magic are playing at the second slowest team pace in the playoffs and it shows. A poor man's version of the Anthony Davis - Demarcus Cousins Pelicans isn't going to cut it in the West.

[sefant77]

For me its beyond pointless to talk about Brogdon. The Bucks are keeping him. If it costs them 20m, they are paying him that. they are paying Middleton, they are paying Brogdon and yeah, they are paying Lopez.

they found the perfect S5 around Giannis, they are going to run with that. They arent afraid of a 130m payroll. They are THE team in the east and the Celtics may lose irving, the Raptors probably lose Kawhi, the Sixers may lose Butler. They can cement themselves as the team in the east for the next years.The value of their franchise skyrocked, they have a brandnew arena...they are going to milk this cow now and they are able to milk it even with a 130m payroll.

And thats the best way to lock up Giannis in 2021. After that, when Giannis goes to his 40m salary, then they may start to look to reduce salary. Right now they are going to pay their S5. And if they need to dump salary to avoid the LT, they are attaching picks to Ersan or even Snell.

So please no more time wasting with Brogdon. And if there is really an amount that the Bucks wouldnt match - thats an amount you dont want to pay someone like Brogdon. And no, that amount isnt 18-20m, its much higher.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

For me its beyond pointless to talk about Brogdon. The Bucks are keeping him. If it costs them 20m, they are paying him that. they are paying Middleton, they are paying Brogdon and yeah, they are paying Lopez.

For me its beyond pointless to talk about Brogdon. The Bucks are keeping him. If it costs them 20m, they are paying him that. they are paying Middleton, they are paying Brogdon and yeah, they are paying Lopez.

they found the perfect S5 around Giannis, they are going to run with that. They arent afraid of a 130m payroll. They are THE team in the east and the Celtics may lose irving, the Raptors probably lose Kawhi, the Sixers may lose Butler. They can cement themselves as the team in the east for the next years.The value of their franchise skyrocked, they have a brandnew arena...they are going to milk this cow now and they are able to milk it even with a 130m payroll.

And thats the best way to lock up Giannis in 2021. After that, when Giannis goes to his 40m salary, then they may start to look to reduce salary. Right now they are going to pay their S5. And if they need to dump salary to avoid the LT, they are attaching picks to Ersan or even Snell.
.
.
So please no more time wasting with Brogdon. And if there is really an amount that the Bucks wouldnt match - thats an amount you dont want to pay someone like Brogdon. And no, that amount isnt 18-20m, its much higher.

The Bucks also have to pay Mirotic, so unless Middleton passes on a max contract and takes his $13m option (he won't), then there's gonna be an odd man out -- and it's gonna be Brogdon... I really don't see the Bucks climbing that deep into the LT unless they win a championship (and probably not even then), so I absolutely think you can snatch him away for $20m per year, maybe even less.

And as for wasting time? Keep talking about Vucevic when Marc Stein (who has yet to be wrong about anything Mavs-related) said this a few months back:

And what I have heard is that the Mavericks’ interest in Vucevic has been overstated. I don’t get the sense that they plan to go after him. Improving the team’s overall athleticism and foot speed, in addition to the very pressing need for more shooting, have been two of Dallas’ recent priorities. https://clutchpoints.com/mavs-rumors...ic-overstated/

I know you have a hard-on for a EuroLeague All-Star team in Dallas, but it ain't happening.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The Bucks also have to pay Mirotic, so unless Middleton passes on a max contract and takes his $13m option (he won't), then there's gonna be an odd man out -- and it's gonna be Brogdon... I really don't see the Bucks climbing that deep into the LT unless they win a championship (and probably not even then), so I absolutely think you can snatch him away for $20m per year, maybe even less.

Why the Bucks would prioritize Mirotic, who played 14 games for them as Giannis backup, over their starting SG?

And they dont need to climb deep into LT to keep Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If they have to, they are going to dump Ersan with a pick. Like they did in the past.

And as for wasting time? Keep talking about Vucevic when Marc Stein (who has yet to be wrong about anything Mavs-related) said this a few months back:
I know you have a hard-on for a EuroLeague All-Star team in Dallas, but it ain't happening.

I know this quote. I just talk about the best available guys. And that list starts with the usual suspects of Kemba and Vuc. Its not about fit etc, the best overall guy. Middleton and Brogdon arent available for me. They love it there, the Bucks wanna do everything to keep the train rolling for their crucial summer of 2021....these guys going nowhere. Hell, Klutchboy Bledsoe just signed an average extension because he not even wanted to see if he could grab more money somewhere else in the league.

If we want Brogdon, we have to throw out stupid money. Really stupid near max money. And that we dont do either. I bet you 50 bucks that Middleton and Brogdon re-sign.

[mavs531]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Bingo. If I'm spending the bulk of our cap on ONE guy, it's gonna be a no-brainer like Durant, Kawhi, or Klay. Add one of those studs, and vet min players will jump on board to fill out the rest of the roster... But Vucevic or Kemba? They cost almost as much, but don't have the same gravity to pull in the talent to plug up the rest of our holes. I'd rather move down to the next tier and spread the money around so that we don't have to rely on guys like Powell or Harden Jr. playing in the starting lineup.

Spot on. I'd still put Kemba in the top tier though, like right below but still up there. I totally agree with you though.

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[mavs531]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's the point... People can go on & on about how Vucevic might fit with this team, but he still doesn't excite me as much as an efficient, high-end glue guy like Brogdon (regardless of price)... It's 2019 -- you don't max out an offensively-minded center in a league where the reigning champs don't even NEED a center (regardless of signing Boogie).

Spot on.

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[mavs531]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

This seems to be the separator in the two groups here. One is adamant about a 3rd star. The other is looking for depth with a focus on defense. I lean in favor of the second group unless you are talking about the tier 1 guys - KD/Leonard, etc.

Spot on.

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[Murphy3]

I could definitely get behind Brogdon. But I'd be happy with Vucevic as well. Either would make the team markedly better. I guess we'll see..but I don't think Brogdon will be available.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Why the Bucks would prioritize Mirotic, who played 14 games for them as Giannis backup, over their starting SG?

And they dont need to climb deep into LT to keep Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez. If they have to, they are going to dump Ersan with a pick. Like they did in the past.



I know this quote. I just talk about the best available guys. And that list starts with the usual suspects of Kemba and Vuc. Its not about fit etc, the best overall guy. Middleton and Brogdon arent available for me. They love it there, the Bucks wanna do everything to keep the train rolling for their crucial summer of 2021....these guys going nowhere. Hell, Klutchboy Bledsoe just signed an average extension because he not even wanted to see if he could grab more money somewhere else in the league.

If we want Brogdon, we have to throw out stupid money. Really stupid near max money. And that we dont do either. I bet you 50 bucks that Middleton and Brogdon re-sign.

It doesn't seem very likely. He's already close to 13m so they can't afford his increase at the cost of Brogdon.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tap2390

If Powell is worth $11 million then Brogdon is most definitely worth $17 million. We're talking about a guy who put up 50-40-90. Most importantly, he isn't just a 3&D guy. He initiated the Bucks offense and made shots at all 3 levels.

My only concern is he was a product of a great team that often had 4 shooting threats + Giannis on the squad, will he be able to sustain that efficient production? Maybe not, but if the Mavs think Luka is a generational offensive facilitator then we should be working to surround him with guys exactly like Brogdon, not guys that will slow us down like Vuc. The Magic are playing at the second slowest team pace in the playoffs and it shows. A poor man's version of the Anthony Davis - Demarcus Cousins Pelicans isn't going to cut it in the West.

You hit everything. Pace is so huge especially with the roster we currently have. Brogdon would help in that area tremendously. I think he can stay close to 50/40/90 because KP alone puts pressure on the defense. With Luka? Brogdon will have many open opportunities. Put me down for 18-20million

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's the point... People can go on & on about how Vucevic might fit with this team, but he still doesn't excite me as much as an efficient, high-end glue guy like Brogdon (regardless of price)... It's 2019 -- you don't max out an offensively-minded center in a league where the reigning champs don't even NEED a center (regardless of signing Boogie).

Great point. The league is not there anymore needing an offensive slow center. Dont give me the 3 threes he takes per game. Wed get murked defensively out on the perimeter, something the Mavs have always struggled with.

[Underdog]

Those close out game stats... I’m sure it’s anyone’s fault but his.

[EricaLubarsky]

I have two issues with Brogdon
1) glue guys who are not much more than complementary pieces are rarely worth big bucks. It's easier to develop guys into that role. Plus, those complementary pieces rarely look as good on an inferior team.
2) I don't see him leaving unless we way overpay him. He's a glue guy because he's a loyal leader.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I have two issues with Brogdon
1) glue guys who are not much more than complementary pieces are rarely worth big bucks. It's easier to develop guys into that role. Plus, those complementary pieces rarely look as good on an inferior team.
2) I don't see him leaving unless we way overpay him. He's a glue guy because he's a loyal leader.

We should also take a hard look at Khris Middleton who might be easier to get given that he isn't restricted.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I can almost guarantee the Mavs won't tie up a restricted offer for Brogdon. They will go for the bigger fish first. By the time they strike out on those guys, Brogdon likely already has an offer or agrees to terms with Milwaukee.

Ross is going to be cheaper in the 12-15 range (if that) and is unrestricted. Similar tiered player and you won't have to go through a wall to get him.

Either way, these are plan B moves that just won't move the needle has much as getting a third star.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by tap2390

We should also take a hard look at Khris Middleton who might be easier to get given that he isn't restricted.

Middleton is going to sign his new contract with the Bucks 10 seconds into FA

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...-Entire-Career

[endtroducing MASKED]

I would love to see the Venn diagram of people who approved of the Dampier move and now want Vucevic.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

I would love to see the Venn diagram of people who approved of the Dampier move and now want Vucevic.

If you're implying that Dampier and Vucevic are the same player talent-wise, then you should probably follow another sport.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If you're implying that Dampier and Vucevic are the same player talent-wise, then you should probably follow another sport.

Same player? No... But a potentially similar situation.

Vucevic is coming off a career year after his 8th season in the league, looking like he's finally turned a corner... And he's likely to be rewarded with a huge contract as a result. Can he live up to it as he crosses into his thirties, or does he become a financial albatross?

Dampier was also coming off a career year after his 8th season in the league, looking like he finally turned a corner... And was rewarded with a huge contract as a result. Well, we all know how that turned out.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Dampier had ONE really good season which was his contract one. Vuc is a career 15/10. Damp 7/7. Not only nowhere near the same player but NOT the same situation.

Damp was brought in as a complimentary piece next Dirk that could hopefully average a double double. I'm sincerely doubt anyone saw him as the third star.

[endtroducing MASKED]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If you're implying that Dampier and Vucevic are the same player talent-wise, then you should probably follow another sport.

No, of course not. What a dumb thing to even insinuate.

Big men that happen to have their best seasons in contract years...I’m not into it.

[endtroducing MASKED]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Dampier had ONE really good season which was his contract one. Vuc is a career 15/10. Damp 7/7. Not only nowhere near the same player but NOT the same situation.

Damp was brought in as a complimentary piece next Dirk that could hopefully average a double double. I'm sincerely doubt anyone saw him as the third star.

We gave Steve Nash’s money to a big man on a contract year. Dampier was a huge, huge commitment, just as Vucevic would be and would tie us up for years cap wise. Just like Dampier...

[thewizard]

Just finished watching game 5 of the GSW/Clippers series and holy crap would I love to get Patrick Beverley. All the people on here fretting about getting a defensive big man as the top priority have it all wrong, what we REALLY need is one or more bulldog defensive guards/wings. Pat Bev would be PERFECT. Unfortunately, I'm worried he's playing his way out of our price range. Dude killed it today. 17/14/5 with the usual great defense.

[thewizard]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

We gave Steve Nash’s money to a big man on a contract year. Dampier was a huge, huge commitment, just as Vucevic would be and would tie us up for years cap wise. Just like Dampier...

Truth. You guys want to give 30 million dollars to a big man who was solid but not great for most of his career and suddenly had one all star season in the crappy East in his contract year? A big man who got bodied by Marc Gasol in the playoffs and is terrible at pick and roll defense? HARD pass.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

I would love to see the Venn diagram of people who approved of the Dampier move and now want Vucevic.

I hated Dampier. Team Steve Nash here. A different era and not even remotely similar players (Damp/Vuc).Yikes

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If you're implying that Dampier and Vucevic are the same player talent-wise, then you should probably follow another sport.

Facts

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by mavs531

What is there to talk about? Vuc has had 1 good game in this series with the other 3 totaling rebounds of 5, 6, and 8. You want THAT production in the playoffs next to KP??? Why? Not only that, his whole game has been terrible. Pretty evident to me, not stupid at all. Any true basketball fan would see how timid he is out there right now in games where it counts.

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One playoff series. “Any true basketball fan” lol. You don’t beat other front offices by worrying about performance in a single playoff series.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by thewizard

Just finished watching game 5 of the GSW/Clippers series and holy crap would I love to get Patrick Beverley. All the people on here fretting about getting a defensive big man as the top priority have it all wrong, what we REALLY need is one or more bulldog defensive guards/wings. Pat Bev would be PERFECT. Unfortunately, I'm worried he's playing his way out of our price range. Dude killed it today. 17/14/5 with the usual great defense.

No question he is a good defender but last night KD had 45. I like PB but we need both

[cutlerny313]

Outside of Golden state nobody else has Three stars. but can still contend. And If Durant leaves they are back to two superstars: Curry, Klay Good players: Green, Igodala, Cousins

Best 7 teams after Warriors
Houston: Superstar Harden; Good players: Paul, Capela,
Bucks: Superstar Giannis; Good players: Brogdon, Middleton, Bledsoe
Toronto: Superstar Kahwi; Good players: Siakim, Lowry, Gasol, Green
Celtics: Supestar Kyrie; Good players: Haywood, Horford, Tatum
Nuggets: Superstar Jokic; Good players: Murray, Milsap
Sixers: Superstars Embid, Simmons; Good players: Butler, Harris, Reddick
Portland: Superstars: Lillard, CJ; Good players: Usik, Kanter

As you can see they all have One or Two Superstar player, a couple of good players, and then quality role players.

So outside of getting Kemba who I think can be similar to a Lillard skill wise but not as great of a shooter. There is no Stars that can be had; Durant, Kawhi, Klay, Kyrie aren't coming.

We have two Stars in Doncic and Porzingis. I don't think we need a third star. But we do need legit good starters. We cannot have Brunson and Powell be two starting players and expect to do big things. That's too much to ask from them.

Players that I think fill needs and can improve us to Playoff team and then we add pieces over the years to contend for a title. They aren't perfect they have strengths and weakness like all good players and quality role players have.

Beverly (clippers), Green (Toronto), Curry (Portland), Bogdanvic (Pacers), Dedmond (pacers), Davis (Nets), Reddick (sixers), Rozier (Celtics)

harder to get but would help
Harris (sixers), Brogdon (bucks), Middleton (bucks)

Players I don't want
Butler, Cousins, Vucevic

[EricaLubarsky]

Who wants Montrezl Harrel?

Scrapper in the mold of Najera and Randle. Been really great as a PF or even small ball center.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Who wants Montrezl Harrel?

Scrapper in the mold of Najera and Randle. Been really great as a PF or even small ball center.

I assumed everyone wants him. He's signed through next year though. Talk about a horse.. he would be fantastic. At 6m the Clips are getting massive value.

[saclare]

I've long been a fan of the Vucevic/Beverley combo. However, I think both are a pipedream, and even getting one of them would be out of our price range (edit: out of what the Mavs FO would be comfortable spending on each player). Vucevic is going to get a large contract and I've shied away from him as of late, especially at the price and now even on some fit here.

Love Beverley, but the dude has played himself into a larger contract that may be redundant here. I'd rather spend on a wing or SG + a big who can at least be a rebound hog, bonus with some D. I just don't see the combo just yet.

I will add on Brogdon: his career path has been steady up. I fully think he would thrive here next to Doncic and Porzingis. The issue is getting him out from under the RFA designation. That's a tough road.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Who wants Montrezl Harrel?

Scrapper in the mold of Najera and Randle. Been really great as a PF or even small ball center.

Who wouldnt want him. Perfect PNR beast. I dont think the Clippers let him go at all.

[sefant77]

He is basically the most underpaid guy in the league (beside the superstars like Giannis).

6m next season is a bargain and i think he is going to be one of the biggest FA in 2020 (even before old ass Draymond).

[saclare]

Draymond might be in the top 10 overrated players in the league. Shooting is atrocious and while he puts up basically 7/7/7, I'm curious how he'd look without three all-stars surrounding him. Not to mention 3 of the best shooters in the league.

I honestly think he'd fade away on another team chasing a larger role or contract.

[Underdog]

Someone on Twitter brought up the possibility of the Mavs signing Wes Matthews this summer... And, well, it’s possible.

Is it too early in the day to start drinking?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Someone on Twitter brought up the possibility of the Mavs signing Wes Matthews this summer... And, well, it’s possible.

Is it too early in the day to start drinking?

Whoever brought that up has obviously already been drinking

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Someone on Twitter brought up the possibility of the Mavs signing Wes Matthews this summer... And, well, it’s possible.

Is it too early in the day to start drinking?

Just when I thought comparing Vuc to the Damp situation was bad...

[endtroducing MASKED]

JaMychal Green is someone I’d be interested in if the Clippers won’t go for the overpay. Also he dunked on me in high school