2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 22 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dallas41 · 06-18-2021, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So that Curry trade is looking pretty bad?

Pretty bad

How about awful......

Dude has been absolutely off the charts in these playoffs.

I'd imagine with all the open looks Luka provided in the 1st round imagine Curry taking those shots.

Mavs win that series hands down this year with Curry

mac222b · 06-18-2021, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So what I’ve observed from these playoffs is that it’s more valuable to have your star players play adequate defense than it is for you to have a offensively challenged player who can play great defense….all of these playoff teams have good offensive players who just so happen to be able to play defense. I think the Nets might be the exception:

Oh no doubt. I think as long as Green can even be a 35% shooter from distance itd be hard to play him off the floor. He’s already a better passer and ball handler than a guy like DFS or Royce O’Neal so he has some natural playmaking in him. He’s also a plus rebounder, especially on the offensive glass he has a knack.

Dirk41legend · 06-19-2021, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So that Curry trade is looking pretty bad?

I would like to go on record as having said that trade was stupid when we made it. If you have historically the best offense in NBA history, you keep every part of that together, and yes, that obviously includes the league’s best 3-pt shooter by %. Luka gets his guys so many open looks, it was insanity to trade away a shooter that good.

If we ran back the exact same team as last year, we would have beat the Clippers this year. Still don’t think we get past the Jazz but we’ll never know...

The moves made by the FO since getting Luka, from wasting cap space to making awful trades is why Donnie needed to go.

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 07:00 AM

In 2019 we could have drafted Terance Mann instead we drafted Deividas Sirvydis.

But 28 other teams missed out on him too and drafts are a crapshoot obviously. I just wish we could hit on some late draft pick sometime.

Zeus · 06-19-2021, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

In 2019 we could have drafted Terance Mann instead we drafted Deividas Sirvydis.

But 28 other teams missed out on him too and drafts are a crapshoot obviously. I just wish we could hit on some late draft pick sometime.

That is a good point but if you look at the quality players we missed in past 2 years since after picking Luka we have whiffed on at least 4 opportunities to add quality help for our superstar.

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 07:32 AM

Yeah I mean outside of Dirk and Luka we have not been very good at drafting in general I think that's fair to say. Josh Howard looked like a star for a little while but that flamed out, and that's around 15 years ago. Chasing big fish and trading down in the draft sure didn't help anything.

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 08:01 AM

That would be insane if Clippers won it all without Kawhi. As crazy it may sound it's not impossible they're just getting help from everywhere: Mann, Reggie Jackson, Batum have been huge. Morris can get superhot from 3. The biggest question mark is PG.

Suns are dealing with Chris Paul having Covid, Sixers have a Ben Simmons problem, Nets big 3 can't stay healthy, Hawks don't have the depth. I got Bucks/Clippers finals, but two game 7s coming up in the East. I usually lose interest if the Mavs are eliminated but I am finding these playoffs to be very good despite still wishing it was the Mavs in them.

Dallas41 · 06-19-2021, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk41legend

I would like to go on record as having said that trade was stupid when we made it. If you have historically the best offense in NBA history, you keep every part of that together, and yes, that obviously includes the league’s best 3-pt shooter by %. Luka gets his guys so many open looks, it was insanity to trade away a shooter that good.

If we ran back the exact same team as last year, we would have beat the Clippers this year. Still don’t think we get past the Jazz but we’ll never know...

The moves made by the FO since getting Luka, from wasting cap space to making awful trades is why Donnie needed to go.

In hindsight as another poster pointed out a few weeks ago had the Mavs did their homework properly they could have kept Curry, signed someone like Wood and drafted Bey or Bane.

Now you've got Wood playing PF next to KP as opposed to Kleber or Powell starting, a rookie wing one or the other who are both terrific 2 way guys and made all rookie team with Curry as a dead eye shooter coming off your bench.

None of that matters now but it doesn't look good as to how the Mavs fucked up this past offseason with the Front office/scouting dept not doing their homework or due diligence.

Especially when you had a few armchair GM's on this site alone calling for a few of those guys to be on the Mavs doing the draft and FA period.

My only knock on Curry was he wasn't aggressive enough in looking for his shot in Dallas and I think that had a lot to do with him just not getting enough touches because he was asked to play with either Brunson or THJ often and both of those guys have tunnel vision and only looks for their own shots.

Then the mavs tried to salvage the Curry trade by replacing his shooting with Redick and in return they fuckep on that trade to giving away a 2nd round pick for a guy who they didn't do their homework on in regards to his injury.

Just a complete waist of an offseason and midseason trade IMO by the decision making of the Front office.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

That would be insane if Clippers won it all without Kawhi. As crazy it may sound it's not impossible they're just getting help from everywhere: Mann, Reggie Jackson, Batum have been huge. Morris can get superhot from 3. The biggest question mark is PG.

Suns are dealing with Chris Paul having Covid, Sixers have a Ben Simmons problem, Nets big 3 can't stay healthy, Hawks don't have the depth. I got Bucks/Clippers finals, but two game 7s coming up in the East. I usually lose interest if the Mavs are eliminated but I am finding these playoffs to be very good despite still wishing it was the Mavs in them.

Jazz were literally leaving 3 pt shooters wide open, and there is no way the Suns don't scout Mann by now.

It's certainly possible, but I also asked this question without much of a reply...

Does it change anything regarding the Mavs roster if the Clippers win it all?

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Does it change anything regarding the Mavs roster if the Clippers win it all?

It shouldn't, we have a top 5 player in the NBA if we can't beat the Clippers it's a waste of his talent.

Yes we were up 2-0 and 3-2 but we couldn't close. Since Dirk has been around we have had a lot of soft teams and somehow that's still the case in 2021 with Luka. We need some players that have no fear of the big stage other than Luka or Dirk did. Clippers somehow have like a whole roster of them and we have 1. The one time we had a roster filled with players with heart other than the top guy Marion/Tyson/Stevenson/Kidd/JET we won the championship. We need almost a complete makeover.

Murphy3 · 06-19-2021, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Pretty bad

How about awful......

Dude has been absolutely off the charts in these playoffs.

I'd imagine with all the open looks Luka provided in the 1st round imagine Curry taking those shots.

Mavs win that series hands down this year with Curry

I think my comments were something like “Nice trade for Richardson… now if we could only find a way to trade for Seth Curry”… My first thoughts were “Why are you trading elite shooters when you have a guy that breaks down the defense with PENETRATION like Doncic?” Curry could have been a 12-15 PPG guy while hitting 44% plus from 3. Those guys don’t grow on trees.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-19-2021, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

In 2019 we could have drafted Terance Mann instead we drafted Deividas Sirvydis.

But 28 other teams missed out on him too and drafts are a crapshoot obviously. I just wish we could hit on some late draft pick sometime.

We have hit on 2nd rounders a few times. And we have hit on undrafted guys like DFS and Kleber.

I'd be fine hitting on more 1st rounders myself.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think my comments were something like “Nice trade for Richardson… now if we could only find a way to trade for Seth Curry”… My first thoughts were “Why are you trading elite shooters when you have a guy that breaks down the defense with PENETRATION like Doncic?” Curry could have been a 12-15 PPG guy while hitting 44% plus from 3. Those guys don’t grow on trees.

Mavs were desperate for defense and this year's playoffs was no exception to that issue.

People are prisoner of the moment with this because of how well he is doing on Philly where their PG has not idea how to score the basketball.

The last thing I really care about is a GM taking risks to improve a serious weakness. It doesn't even come close to the failure of the 2019 FA.

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

We have hit on 2nd rounders a few times. And we have hit on undrafted guys like DFS and Kleber.

I'd be fine hitting on more 1st rounders myself.

Your definition of hit and mine are different. DFS and Kiebler are ok but they're just guys. Mann just scored 39 points in a close out game, basically took the game over. I do not believe either of those players are capable of anything close to that.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-19-2021, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mavs were desperate for defense and this year's playoffs was no exception to that issue.

People are prisoner of the moment with this because of how well he is doing on Philly where their PG has not idea who to score the basketball.

The last thing I really care about is a GM taking risks to improve a serious weakness. It doesn't even come close to the failure of the 2019 FA.

Agreed. FA failures, especially '19 far surpass the Seth trade.

FreshJive · 06-19-2021, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mavs were desperate for defense and this year's playoffs was no exception to that issue.

People are prisoner of the moment with this because of how well he is doing on Philly where their PG has not idea who to score the basketball.

The last thing I really care about is a GM taking risks to improve a serious weakness. It doesn't even come close to the failure of the 2019 FA.

The hindsight here is off the charts. Pretty sure the consensus here and around the league was that the trade was good for both teams, and fulfilled a need for both. It’s not surprising that Curry has become great for a team desperate for shooting.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 11:03 AM

And once again, if we have a coach that actually plays Bey, then it could potentially be a huge win. Bey isn't a joke of a prospect folks. He has skill.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-19-2021, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Your definition of hit and mine are different. DFS and Kiebler are ok but they're just guys. Mann just scored 39 points in a close out game, basically took the game over. I do not believe either of those players are capable of anything close to that.

Yes, I consider an undrafted free agent who has been our most versatile and best defender, shoots 40% from 3 on good volume, and is a legitimate starter to be a hit.

Dirk41legend · 06-19-2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The hindsight here is off the charts. Pretty sure the consensus here and around the league was that the trade was good for both teams, and fulfilled a need for both. It’s not surprising that Curry has become great for a team desperate for shooting.

Yeah, it’s not surprising because he was great for us in limited minutes...Regardless of what the consensus was at the time, there were people calling it a bad trade on our end, which it clearly has ended up being.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yes, I consider an undrafted free agent who has been our most versatile and best defender, shoots 40% from 3 on good volume, and is a legitimate starter to be a hit.

He certainly wasn't a hit this season...at least, when it mattered. I mean, my god, he had three games where he didn't score a point in April.

And I'm not replying to this enjoying to hate on Maxi, but people give soooo much shit to J-Rich when really, Maxi was just as guilty of not really being very good.

And I really think it's because of a fixation on three point shooting. If J-Rich shot 38-40% from three, no matter how bad of a season, then people wouldn't be as hard on him.

Murphy3 · 06-19-2021, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The hindsight here is off the charts. Pretty sure the consensus here and around the league was that the trade was good for both teams, and fulfilled a need for both. It’s not surprising that Curry has become great for a team desperate for shooting.

Well, I make it a habit of just not agreeing with the consensus just for the sake of agreeing… I actually like to form my own opinion.

FreshJive · 06-19-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

He certainly wasn't a hit this season...at least, when it mattered. I mean, my god, he had three games where he didn't score a point in April.

And I'm not replying to this enjoying to hate on Maxi, but people give soooo much shit to J-Rich when really, Maxi was just as guilty of not really being very good.

And I really think it's because of a fixation on three point shooting. If J-Rich shot 38-40% from three, no matter how bad of a season, then people wouldn't be as hard on him.

Sounds more like he was describing Dorian.

FreshJive · 06-19-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Well, I make it a habit of just not agreeing with the consensus just for the sake of agreeing… I actually like to form my own opinion.

Good for you. I think most people see themselves this way (in western culture anyway.) I’m just saying there seems to be a lot of flip flopping going on here, because I don’t remember that many people being that upset. I remember a lot of people saying that the Mavs needed more size and defense at the wing position, and that you can’t win with a bunch of jump shooters in the playoffs. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that Josh Richardson would be this bad. If you did, then good on you.

JustJay · 06-19-2021, 02:59 PM

DFS could have done with Mann did this playoffs against Mann, but didn't.

Again he's not bad at all I like DFS, but Mann is looking like a star now that's what Herro looked like last season and it didn't really pan out this season so things can change. But I just don't think DFS has take over in him, and that is what we're missing minus Luka. This team choked besides Luka.

EricaLubarsky · 06-19-2021, 05:06 PM

So Cuban interfered with Donnie's ability to be GM
Vulgaris interfered with Rick's ability to coach

And Donnie was fired/Rick left.

Sounds to me like Cuban needs to fire his poker buddy and stop messing with good people. If I was a GM and/or coach, that would tell me loud and clear what situation I was walking into. That's where the disfunction starts.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So Cuban interfered with Donnie's ability to be GM
Vulgaris interfered with Rick's ability to coach

And Donnie and Rick left.

Sounds to me like Cuban needs to fire his poker buddy and stop messing with good people. If I was a GM and/or coach, that would tell me loud and clear what situation I was walking into.

I think we can all agree that Cuban has royally sucked as an owner for a while now.

That said, the old clashing with the new was basically inevitable. Donnie is an NBA dinosaur and so is Rick. Neither were adapting enough to the modern NBA to reach that next level in the last ten years. That's especially true for Donnie who was caught completely flat footed in 2019. There were literally 20+ difference makers they could have gotten.

So whether it was moneyball guy A, B, or C, somebody was eventually going to blast this thing open.

The first round failure added to the really dumb Luka comments by Donnie lit a wick that even Bobby Karella acknowledged. The media then went looking for smoke and found it.

It was just time, really. The treadmill of mediocrity needs a different path.

But yes, that Voulgaris guy needs to go. Would be a terrible look to keep him unless Cuban was trying to prove some stupid point to not let writers force him to do things.

Jack.Kerr · 06-19-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So Cuban interfered with Donnie's ability to be GM
Vulgaris interfered with Rick's ability to coach

And Donnie was fired/Rick left.

Sounds to me like Cuban needs to fire his poker buddy and stop messing with good people. If I was a GM and/or coach, that would tell me loud and clear what situation I was walking into. That's where the disfunction starts.

You've been an admirer/supporter of both Carlisle and Doncic.

Question(s): Do you perceive that Doncic undercut Carlisle's authority?

And if so, do you perceive that Doncic is a contributing factor to Carlisle's departure?

Lestat_1795 · 06-19-2021, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The first round failure added to the really dumb Luka comments by Donnie lit a wick that even Bobby Karella acknowledged. The media then went looking for smoke and found it.

Link please.

Zeus · 06-19-2021, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The hindsight here is off the charts. Pretty sure the consensus here and around the league was that the trade was good for both teams, and fulfilled a need for both. It’s not surprising that Curry has become great for a team desperate for shooting.

That is what this forum is for - complaining with hindsight and wondering what if... The front office is the one that needs to have foresight, we are not being paid by Cuban to do that work for them.

Zeus · 06-19-2021, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

You've been an admirer/supporter of both Carlisle and Doncic.

Question(s): Do you perceive that Doncic undercut Carlisle's authority?

And if so, do you perceive that Doncic is a contributing factor to Carlisle's departure?

I hope so. Wait, you are going to tell me how wonderful Trae is, right?

ozmavs123 · 06-19-2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So Cuban interfered with Donnie's ability to be GM
Vulgaris interfered with Rick's ability to coach

And Donnie was fired/Rick left.

Sounds to me like Cuban needs to fire his poker buddy and stop messing with good people. If I was a GM and/or coach, that would tell me loud and clear what situation I was walking into. That's where the disfunction starts.

Haralabos is certainly arrogant and needs to work on his people skills, and has stepped on some toes, but you need to do a deep-dive into his history to understand that he is smarter and harder working than anyone out there.

Check out some of his blog posts which are about a decade ago but you can see his level of knowledge and research: https://aloneinthecorner.com/

We will be less informed without him.

Dallas41 · 06-19-2021, 10:34 PM

Mavs have got to figure out how to surround Luka with some defenders and consistent players.

Bucks added Holiday and then later picked up Tucker those two clearly have added some mental toughness stability to that team.

Phoenix in similar moves added Paul and Crowder again two mentality tough players and stability to their team.

I'm not really not sure what direction the Mavs will go but I'd like to think someone like a DeRozan or Lowry would be great fits next to Luka and either Myles Turner or R.Holmes would be that legit rim protector they could use.

Murphy3 · 06-19-2021, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Good for you. I think most people see themselves this way (in western culture anyway.) I’m just saying there seems to be a lot of flip flopping going on here, because I don’t remember that many people being that upset. I remember a lot of people saying that the Mavs needed more size and defense at the wing position, and that you can’t win with a bunch of jump shooters in the playoffs. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that Josh Richardson would be this bad. If you did, then good on you.

Most people on this site thought it was a good trade. I thought it was a bad idea to trade a historically great three point shooter when you have an offensive weapon that creates open 3pointers all the time. Curry did thrive and would have continued to thrive playing with Doncic.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-19-2021, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Most people on this site thought it was a good trade. I thought it was a bad idea to trade a historically great three point shooter when you have an offensive weapon that creates open 3pointers all the time. Curry did thrive and would have continued to thrive playing with Doncic.

You know what Curry fans seem to fail to realize? He didn't help beat the Clippers the last time we played them in the first round. He averaged 12 points on 36% three point shooting with 0 defense.

It's fine if you didn't like the trade, but fans acting like he changes everything is ridiculous.

Dallas41 · 06-19-2021, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You know what Curry fans seem to fail to realize? He didn't help beat the Clippers the last time we played them in the first round. He averaged 12 points on 36% three point shooting with 0 defense.

It's fine if you didn't like the trade, but fans acting like he changes everything is ridiculous.

Even if he replicated those #'s sadly it still would have been more than anything Richardson brought to the table this post season offensively or defensively

But the primary reason why I think Curry would have faired better this post season was because of the sheer amount of open 3's Luka created that series.

I just can't see Curry shooting 36% from 3's on those amount of open 3's Luka created at worst he goes 12-14 ppg on 40% 3-PT shooting that 1st round.

Defensively we can say he would have been liability but if he was defending Beverly, Rondo or Jackson I don't think it would have been as bad as last year when he got caught co often switching onto KL or George because the Mavs played smaller last year in that series.

This year they played bigger all series total different matchup

NeedlesKane · 06-20-2021, 01:26 AM

Honestly feel that Nets should fire Nash and hire Carlisle. I think Nash is insane to play guys either the whole game or close to it.

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Honestly feel that Nets should fire Nash and hire Carlisle. I think Nash is insane to play guys either the whole game or close to it.

SO the Mavs get to hire Nash? Look at the Bucks minutes chief. It's the playoffs.

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Most people on this site thought it was a good trade. I thought it was a bad idea to trade a historically great three point shooter when you have an offensive weapon that creates open 3pointers all the time. Curry did thrive and would have continued to thrive playing with Doncic.

Mavs have lots of near 40% 3 point shooters. Philly did not. Richardson did not work out. I agree that the Mavs would look much better with Seth coming off the bench.

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

That is what this forum is for - complaining with hindsight and wondering what if... The front office is the one that needs to have foresight, we are not being paid by Cuban to do that work for them.

I agree, but can't we also be smart enough to understand that there are no sure things, and recognize that teams have to get lucky on good gambles? All these teams have smart people trying to fight over the same resources. I'm just happy that Mark Cuban's retarded ass somehow ended up with Luks Doncic right when Dirk was retiring.

JustJay · 06-20-2021, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

SO the Mavs get to hire Nash? Look at the Bucks minutes chief. It's the playoffs.

After the way it ended with Nash in Dallas as a player, I don't see him being the coach.