Offseason 2010 Thread

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by mac222b

it's also comical to me that part of the lure of Chicago is supposedly Noah. don't get me wrong i think the guys an excellent player and i love his hustle and his schtick doesn't even really rub me the wrong way. it's just Chicago is supposed to be this ideal destination in part because of Noah? i guess... but dude averaged 10 pts. 11 boards and 1.5 blks per game last season. hmm sounds an awful lot like Brendan Haywood. i get that he's younger and more athletic and presumably can still improve a bit but he's basically Anderson Varejao 2.0.
Rose i get, he's an excellent #2 guy seems like a class act and will improve. but after that it's Noah, Taj Gibson, James Johnson and Deng whom they may have to trade. and that's it. almost literally. and you've got to play in the shadow of Jordan. if Bron doesn't deliver MULTIPLE championships in Chicago he's a failure. i guess Washington just made it alot more likely by doing the Hinrich trade so that the Bulls can possibly sign 2max guys. i just sort of doubt one of them is LeBron. i think he'll go NY or NJ where he'll be greeted as "savior" and given more leash to produce a championship.

Noah's a better rebounder than Varejao or Haywood ever have been or ever will be. I don't watch enough of Noah to know if he is a better defender than Haywood, but he's certainly a higher motor guy than Haywood. I'd take Noah over the other two any day of the week despite the fact that I think he's a bit of a tool on the court.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by mac222b

yup, joking about the 4 center thing. and you(and D.Lord)may be right, in fact i hope you are, in thinking that Stevenson/JJB would be enough. i'm a big believer in Gortat and think if he's given 30 mins. a night he'll flourish and be like a bigger, better shooting Biedrins. same energy and NBA body. give me a guy like Gortat who presumably has something to prove and plays w/ a chip on his shoulder over a somewhat lazy, entitled(or maybe he's just country) big man like Haywood anyday.
don't get me wrong we could do alot worse than Haywood and he's more proven than Gortat. but at double the price? give me Gortat

I agree with this sentiment. I'd much rather roll the dice on Gortat than be the team to hand out a massive contract to Haywood. I'd be surprised if Orlando's price really is as low as gmc and D. Lord are speculating, and I certainly wouldn't mind parting with DoJo if that's what it took to get the deal done. Of course, I'd only make this move after exhausting all the other potential deals as I wouldn't want to lose a piece that could be valuable in a potential blockbuster.

[grndmstr_c]

Noah's rebounding ability and energy level are great, but I still think it's bizarre that he's considered a significant selling point for that franchise.

As for Gortat, if I'm going after him and him alone off of Orlando's roster I probably try to steer the talks towards Stevenson, JJB, and the rights to Nivins being my best offer. I'll believe that the Magic can get a substantively better offer for him than that when I see it, and I only consider going farther than that if I'm just flat out desperate for a center. After all, the Mavs can simply pony up some dough for Haywood and ensure that they have a starting-caliber center without having to sacrifice any talent.

[rabbitproof]

I think Noah is an asset. He's a 25 year old who averaged 11-11 last year on 31 minutes a game while battling some injuries.

More to his point is what position he plays, Noah is probably already a top-10 center and he's going to make a couple All-Star games I would assume. There's Dwight, Bogut, Harford and Lopez in the East at center and if they start winning more, I think he'll get in a couple All-Star games before his career is done.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I agree with this sentiment. I'd much rather roll the dice on Gortat than be the team to hand out a massive contract to Haywood. I'd be surprised if Orlando's price really is as low as gmc and D. Lord are speculating, and I certainly wouldn't mind parting with DoJo if that's what it took to get the deal done. Of course, I'd only make this move after exhausting all the other potential deals as I wouldn't want to lose a piece that could be valuable in a potential blockbuster.

oh i agree Noah's a better rebounder than BWood or Varejao. i think he's a damn good player. always pick him for my fantasy squads
i was just commenting on how the media or whomever is spinning Chi. as this cant miss situation when they in fact have a paucity of assets and one of their selling points is Noah. its not like he's Moses Malone. and i don't see any of the big stars taking less than max and forfeiting 30 million just to play with LeBron. i'll believe it when i see it. maybe J.Johnson or Boozer but Bosh and DWade no way. all they have left for S&T is Deng, Gibson, James Johnson, future low draft picks. and they have Brad Miller's contract maybe?

ive said this before if im GM of Toronto or Cleve. i say "see ya" before i take back scraps. Bosh couldn't get you to the playoff but Deng can? better to suck for 5 yrs. and rebuild. or else you become the Indiana Pacers picking 10-14 ever year AND missing the playoffs. in this case NJ,Houston,Dallas have assets and or contracts which are desirable to these teams and might be considered suitable destinations for these guys. i like our chances.

and i agree it'll take more than Stevenson/Barea to get Gortat. "cheap" young Centers command a premium. Jerome James anyone? but i do hope we do find a way to get Gortat in here.

[mac222b]

btw i presume to think that Colangelo isn't dumb enough to trade Bosh for Bynum.
although i think Bynum leads the league in knee drains

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have to say, I'm starting to get the impression that, as much as the Mavs might like DoJo (and I'm sure they do like him), keeping Booby was in fact the single biggest reason they spent that 3 million to acquire his rights from Memphis.

I was thinking the same thing - the Mavs could definitely hold on to Roddy by offering up DoJo... Conversely, DoJo would be a pretty nice replacement for Roddy if (when!) we trade him for someone like LeBron...

Either way, we have one young talent to dangle in a trade and one to build on - I like where the FO's head is this summer...

[dirno2000]

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...avericks062810

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...avericks062810

likes^ unless we lose Roddy. I don't see that being fun at all, unless dojo becomes a stud and we won't know that for a while.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...avericks062810

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...ct-joe-johnson

That should get brought up again, to prepare for what might be offered

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I was thinking the same thing - the Mavs could definitely hold on to Roddy by offering up DoJo... Conversely, DoJo would be a pretty nice replacement for Roddy if (when!) we trade him for someone like LeBron...

Either way, we have one young talent to dangle in a trade and one to build on - I like where the FO's head is this summer...

at this point, i'm thinking whatever it takes to get Lebron. I've heard Lebron say that he would love to play next to Kidd a few times already soooooooooooo. We'll see by next week i guess

[Dirkenstien]

This could be Cuban's creatively genius way of creating a more enticing scenario for Lebron. By doing a S&T for Johnson and resigning Dirk, we essentially bring in two Max FA's like what these other teams are doing only we would have players who would compliment Lebron's game perfectly in Dirk and Johnson as well as a talented and deep roster throughout.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

This could be Cuban's creatively genius way of creating a more enticing scenario for Lebron. By doing a S&T for Johnson and resigning Dirk, we essentially bring in two Max FA's like what these other teams are doing only we would have players who would compliment Lebron's game perfectly in Dirk and Johnson as well as a talented and deep roster throughout.

i like the thinking here. we acquire Johnson for something not involving Dust or Roddy or Caron and then offer that and some picks for LeBron.
everything would have to fall just right but it's possible

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

This could be Cuban's creatively genius way of creating a more enticing scenario for Lebron. By doing a S&T for Johnson and resigning Dirk, we essentially bring in two Max FA's like what these other teams are doing only we would have players who would compliment Lebron's game perfectly in Dirk and Johnson as well as a talented and deep roster throughout.

Then what about center?

LBJ will be rearview mirror after signing JJ no? If we have Dust seems like it gets used on a center.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Then what about center?

LBJ will be rearview mirror after signing JJ no? If we have Dust seems like it gets used on a center.

worst case you have Damp/Shaq. would lack athleticism and young legs.
of course you'd try and pry away Gortat with DoJo and whatever you have left. or try and get ATL. to include Pachulia. he's decent. and he's not afraid to get chippy with wanna be thugs.

[mac222b]

shoot, if we get Joe Johnson AND LeBron we can stick Shawn Kemp at Center and still be the team to beat

[grndmstr_c]

Gortat may be young, but he's not cheap. Not anymore. In fact, it's not unrealistic to think that there may have been only two teams in the NBA last summer who were willing to sign him to the contract Dallas signed him to. At the very least, if there were more, there weren't many, and I can guarantee you there aren't any teams who see him as a bargain at that price. After all that I just think it's extraordinarily naive to think that Orlando is going to be able to do better than contractual savings, a truly-cheap proven rotation player, and a 2nd round big. That's not to say that they'd necessarily prefer the specific package Dallas would have to offer them over a similar package offered by somebody else, but I still can't see anybody offering to pay a higher price than that.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...avericks062810

The revelation that Dallas would bid for Johnson is no revelation at all. But the hints that Johnson would have interest in Dallas are great news, especially coming from a reputable journalist like Woj. In many ways I see JJ as the ideal target because of how little leverage the Hawks are likely to have in S&T negotiations.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Then what about center?

LBJ will be rearview mirror after signing JJ no? If we have Dust seems like it gets used on a center.

The way I see it we could still resign Haywood.

Butler, JJB, Stevenson, Dominique Jones to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.

Roddy/Damp/picks to Cleveland for James.

Then resign Haywood and either bring Damp back or sign Shaq.

Haywood / Shaq-Damp
Dirk / Marion / Najera
James / Marion
Johnson / Terry
Kidd / ?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

The way I see it we could still resign Haywood.

Butler, JJB, Stevenson, Dominique Jones to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.

Roddy/Damp/picks to Cleveland for James.

Then resign Haywood and either bring Damp back or sign Shaq.

Haywood / Shaq-Damp
Dirk / Marion / Najera
James / Marion
Johnson / Terry
Kidd / ?

works for me

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

The way I see it we could still resign Haywood.

Butler, JJB, Stevenson, Dominique Jones to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.

Roddy/Damp/picks to Cleveland for James.

Then resign Haywood and either bring Damp back or sign Shaq.

Haywood / Shaq-Damp
Dirk / Marion / Najera
James / Marion
Johnson / Terry
Kidd / ?

we would still have the LLE at t least and possibly MLE to grab a back-up point. with J. Johnson and Bron(Terry even)being good ballhandlers it becomes less of a need than it would be otherwise

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

The way I see it we could still resign Haywood.

Butler, JJB, Stevenson, Dominique Jones to Atlanta for Joe Johnson.

Roddy/Damp/picks to Cleveland for James.

Then resign Haywood and either bring Damp back or sign Shaq.

Haywood / Shaq-Damp
Dirk / Marion / Najera
James / Marion
Johnson / Terry
Kidd / ?

haha, right. I like the potential of getting lioghter on some of the guards, but that is pretty optimistic overall.

Got anything closer to reality?

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

haha, right. I like the potential of getting lioghter on some of the guards, but that is pretty optimistic overall.

Got anything closer to reality?

Well look at it this way. If we can work a S&T with Atlanta for pieces not named Damp or Roddy then we are pretty much in a no lose situation. You instantly improve the team and from that point on I think it can only improve your chances at luring Lebron and even if it doesn't net Lebron you still have Dust/Roddy to improve your team other ways. It's a win or win more situation.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by mac222b

we would still have the LLE at t least and possibly MLE to grab a back-up point. with J. Johnson and Bron(Terry even)being good ballhandlers it becomes less of a need than it would be otherwise

I completely agree. That would be the beauty of having guys like Lebron and Johnson, it makes the need for a quality backup PG less important and like you mentioned we still have ways to bring in a vet backup just in case.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

This could be Cuban's creatively genius way of creating a more enticing scenario for Lebron. By doing a S&T for Johnson and resigning Dirk, we essentially bring in two Max FA's like what these other teams are doing only we would have players who would compliment Lebron's game perfectly in Dirk and Johnson as well as a talented and deep roster throughout.

Geez would be nice. I mean Cuban opens up the wallet and is successful in getting the 25th pick. Now he goes after JJ, say with the contract starting with Jets. Reserve the DUST for Lebron. Plan B, players under contract to teams seeking tax relief, Chris Paul, Iguodala....sure there are a few names out there.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

shoot, if we get Joe Johnson AND LeBron we can stick Shawn Kemp at Center and still be the team to beat

No kidding - guys like Shaq would "Karl Malone" at a cut rate to join a squad composed of LeBron/Dirk/JJ/Kidd/Matrix.

Ahhh, sweet dreams...

[LonghornDub]

"Screamin" A. Smith tweeted this morning that both Lebron and Bosh are going to Miami to join Wade. I'm not even sure how that would work $ wise (or basketball-wise, frankly), but if true, wow.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

at this point, i'm thinking whatever it takes to get Lebron. I've heard Lebron say that he would love to play next to Kidd a few times already soooooooooooo. We'll see by next week i guess

Got the rubber band on wrist from Kidd, when Kidd was doing it in college.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

"Screamin" A. Smith tweeted this morning that both Lebron and Bosh are going to Miami to join Wade. I'm not even sure how that would work $ wise (or basketball-wise, frankly), but if true, wow.

Amazing how people already know who is going where, considering that any conversations with a player before July 1st would constitute collusion...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

"Screamin" A. Smith tweeted this morning that both Lebron and Bosh are going to Miami to join Wade. I'm not even sure how that would work $ wise (or basketball-wise, frankly), but if true, wow.

I think they're working on clearing room, Cook trade, Jones buyout. They were able to offer 2 maxes, prior to the 2 moves, but maybe now, they can add 2 max deals.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

"Screamin" A. Smith tweeted this morning that both Lebron and Bosh are going to Miami to join Wade. I'm not even sure how that would work $ wise (or basketball-wise, frankly), but if true, wow.

It's nice being out West this time of year

The more these rumors become closer to reality the better the Mavericks chances are at landing one two top FA's. No GM/team wants to see their star player leave for nothing (especially within the same conference) and players don't like the idea of having to leave money on the table to be on a good team. With Dallas' S&T capabilities the concerns of both parties are put at ease.

Now then, how can we create more buzz that this Lebron/Bosh to Miami rumor is legit?

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Amazing how people already know who is going where, considering that any conversations with a player before July 1st would constitute collusion...

Well Smith probably dug that out of his a$$. He doesn't even name a source.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I didn't even know Stephen A. Smith was still in the business.

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I didn't even know Stephen A. Smith was still in the business.

Quite frankly, he's not...

[Eman]

If we were to get Joe Johnson with something other than DUST, we could go after Al Jefferson with DUST (if we miss out on the big guys)

Al Jeff/Haywood
Dirk/Marion
Marion/
JJ/Beaubois/Terry
Kidd/Beaubois

Pretty nice, with the point guard (Beaubois) and center (jeff) of the future.-----Maybe we could trade Haywood for an upgrade at small forward?

[Dirkenstien]

Latest story by Chris Sheridan regarding questions Lebron will have for potential suitors. When looking at these, I can't think of a better scenario for Lebron than Dallas if we land Johnson and resign Dirk. The two guys are practically made to play with a guy like Lebron.

Also, I think Cuban's willingness to spend and great repertoire among NBA players will carry a lot of weight with James' confidence in always being surrounded by a championship caliber roster. I'm starting to feel really positive about our chances but a lot of it weighs on landing Johnson first.

Anyhow, here's the article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/kni...knicks-premise

By Chris Sheridan

So here we are, inside of 72 hours before the start of free agency, and there are those who are convinced the Chicago Bulls are the leading candidate to land LeBron James.

There is a compelling argument to be made in favor of that supposition (Chicago has the most talent in place with Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah already under contract for 2010-11), but will that argument hold up under further forward-looking scrutiny?

It's an important question, because in my conversations over the weekend with several league sources keyed into the maneuverings surrounding the start of free agency July 1, the dialogue consistently circled back to one pertinent point: When LeBron looks at what will surround him on his future team, especially when weighing Chicago vs. New York, he is going to have questions of his own.

Such as:

* Will the owner (Jerry Reinsdorf) be willing to spend whatever it takes to surround him with the right type of supporting cast?

Let's not forget that Reinsdorf has a well-earned reputation as being one of the more frugal owners in the league (he broke up a dynasty following the 1998 three-peat because in large part because he did not want to commit long-term dollars to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for what would be the downsides of their careers). Noah becomes a restricted free agent in 2011, and Rose in 2012. Is Reinsdorf willing to commit $150 million or more in long-term dollars (plus luxury tax money) to those two players on top of what he'll be paying James and another top-tier free agent? James will have no such qualms when it comes to the wallet-opening tendencies of Jim Dolan, who has shelled out luxury tax payments from Cablevision's deep coffers to pay for horrible teams over the better part of the past decade.

* What do I know about the new coach, Tom Thibodeau?

The answer: Practically nothing when compared to what he knows of Mike D'Antoni. If you count up all the hours LeBron has spent on planes, trains, hotels and buses with D'Antoni since 2006, when the James first started playing under D'Antoni (and Mike Krzyzewski and Nate McMillan) with Team USA, you start running into the high triple-digits. D'Antoni and James have been together for dinners at the Wynn resort in Las Vegas, at U.S. military bases in South Korea, at Morton's in Macau, at Starbucks in Shanghai, and inside the locker room in Beijing when James celebrated the greatest accomplishment of his professional career by winning an Olympic gold medal in 2008.

* Who is my 3-point shooter?

It won't be Kirk Hinrich, since he is heading to the Wizards on July 8. It won't be Rose, because he can't shoot the 3 (27 pct last season). It won't be Jannero Pargo, since he will be an unrestricted free agent and is not guaranteed to return, and it might not be Deng, because he may have to be used as a sign-and-trade chip to acquire that second max free agent (especially if that second player is Chris Bosh, who stands to make $30 million extra if he changes teams through a sign-and-trade deal). With the Knicks, he'd at least have Danilo Gallinari, who can stroke it so well that D'Antoni (in a mouthful of comment last fall) has described him as the best shooter he has ever seen.

* Can Rose play off the ball?

That is one of the great unknowns in this whole equation, because Rose has shown himself (like James) to be a player who is most effective when he has the ball in his hands to run the offense. Can Rose subjugate his game to be the type of spot-up shooter that Mo Williams was in Cleveland? And what about the defensive end? Can Rose defend opposing point guards better than, or as well as, Toney Douglas can? Granted, Douglas is somewhat of an unknown on that level in the pros, and D'Antoni probably hurt himself in that department by limiting Douglas' minutes in favor of Chris Duhon last season. But Douglas was the defensive player of the year in the ACC during his final season at Florida State, and there's no taking that off his resume.

* Can the Bulls improve themselves in the summer of 2011 as much as the Knicks can?

If the Bulls hang onto Deng and sign James and another max free agent, they will be over the cap in the summer of 2011 and will have only the mid-level exception to use (and there is a caveat there, too, since owners want to eliminate the MLE in the next collective bargaining agreement). If Deng is moved in a sign-and-trade, the Bulls will still be committed to at least $51 million in salaries for 2011-12, which would theoretically leave them some $5-6 million under the cap, thereby depriving them of the use of the mid-level exception (The MLE is not available to under-the-cap teams). The Knicks, on the other hand, will have Eddy Curry's $11.3 million salary coming off the books a year from now. If New York has two max players, plus Gallinari, Douglas, Wilson Chandler and Bill Walker on the books for the '11-12 season, that adds up to roughly $45 million in salaries. And if the 2011-12 cap comes in at $56 million again, New York will have $11 million to spend on putting supplemental pieces around their core -- an especially salient point given that the owners are seeking a hard salary cap in the new labor agreement.

Just a little food for thought for y'all to chew on until, and after, 12:01 a.m. arrives Thursday.

[mac222b]

haha my favorite parts of that: where he debates the merits of Derrick Rose vs. Toney Douglas! hmmm... let me think about that one.
and Gallinari is the best shooter ever?! doesn't he coach against Ray Allen and the Celtics like 6 times a year? better than Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Dirk? Jerry West?!!!
D'antoni is a moron. if he actually said that. or even suggested it.

[Kidd Karma]

Only question in Dallas, is where do i sign? Kidd's the spot up shooter, Butler can play 2 guard, Dirk draws attention on the other side of the court. Owner is willing to spend any time any year. Contracts are set up to maximize their value on the open market.

[FINtastic]

Yeah, that was a pretty good example of a desperation spin job by Sheridan there. If he thinks Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari are serious selling points for Lebron, he's off his rocker.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Yeah, that was a pretty good example of a desperation spin job by Sheridan there. If he thinks Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari are serious selling points for Lebron, he's off his rocker.

NY had a full year to exhibit Gallinari....but he didn't do much. And of course their best player is already packed and ready to go. Outside of the cash, can't see why anyone would serioulsy consider NY. You're looking at Rudy Gay, the max players playing on non tax teams.