Nerlens Noel

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Skin had an idea for a trade on his show tonight.

Noel/Powell for Randle/Deng

Wonder if Lakers would have any interest in that deal.

Randle is garbage and Deng is terrible overpaid garbage.

What a shitty deal for us. Skin really is sometimes braindead...

I still prefer to see if Noel gets his head straight.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

We can't trade him until december 15th. And even then because he signed his QO he has to consent to the trade. At this point I don't think he'd turn it down but we can't trade him for another 6 weeks or so anyway.

Edit-
Not even sure he'd be worth anything of value tbh. If he's traded his bird rights do not go with him, which is why he has to consent I believe.

He'll have short-term value to a contender, and should be easy to trade with his low price tag (which also allows us to ship him without eating a bad contract in the process)... I mean, his stats aren't horrible in the limited minutes he's played. His body language sucks, but everyone knows why. Not saying we can get a first for him, but we should be able to get a decent return, even with his Bird Rights expiring.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Randle is garbage and Deng is terrible overpaid garbage.

What a shitty deal for us. Skin really is sometimes braindead...

I still prefer to see if Noel gets his head straight.

Noel isn't going to change his mindset as long as Carlisle keeps sandbagging him... And I don't even think this is on Carlisle at this point -- I think Cuban is calling the shots when it comes to Noel's minutes... And it probably has more to do with Rich Paul than Nerlens Noel.

So basically we're seeing an owner vs agent dispute playing out through a coach and player.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I think I've discovered why Rick is obsessed with Dwight Powell.... it's all because of his obsession with +-. We all know it to be true, it's really the only stat outside of catastrophic turnovers he talks about all the time.

If u look at the game logs it's pretty obvious Rick has tried to reward Noel, but Noel isn't doing anything with it. Game 1 Noel was a +9 so game 2 RC starts Noel and he's a -16 in a 5 point loss. Noel plays well against the Warriors and is a -3 in a 30 point blowout so RC starts him at Memphis where is a +11 in our first win and then starts him again and he's +11 again in a 5 point loss. Both games he had some foul trouble though. 2 good starts in a row in the +- column so RC starts him for a 3rd straight game against Philly, where he plays poorly -10 in a 2 point loss. He starts him again anyway 4th straight game maybe it was just former team nerves... he's -16 in a 15 point loss to the Jazz. So he doesn't start against Clips and I believe this was the game he dogged it in the effort department and RC came on the floor yelled at him so hard he was bent over and then benched him for a stretch. He ended -22 in a 21 point loss. He started him against the Pels prolly by force because of the size problem and NN was a -18 in a 5 point loss and Salah emerged in that game. Salah then got the start in minnesota but got in foul trouble and then Salah again outplayed Noel last night. When NN has impacted games in the +- column RC has rewarded him with starts, he can talk about matchups but does anyone really think starting harris over noel is matchup related? Highly doubtful. I think RC is trying to reward Noel when he plays well but it's just not happening. But in terms of Powell... Powell beat out Noel in +- in sacramento, Powell got more mins the game after. and on it continues every single game. The 3 best +- games for Noel Powell plays less minutes the following game than Noel. So RC playing Powell is because in terms of +- Powell destroys Noel every other game really. It all makes sense now, I think we can all sleep easier now.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by GermanStandard

So the Plan is to waste another year of a Young Upside Center with great Tools in a rebuilding Phase while playing washed up no-upside Mejiri and Powell ?

I dont understand RC.

So we let him pay for his Summer Antics and than let him go elsewhere for free next summer. Okay.

Noel is trash. He can occasionally have a good game, but so can Mejri as we saw last night. There's no room on this roster for a guy who doesn't rebound, pouts, doesn't get along with others, plays hard one game and disappears the next, doesn't have fundamentals and doesn't care to learn, etc.

Good riddance to Noel. Maybe on his next team he'll learn that being a high-potential lottery pick doesn't guarantee him the big bucks when his stats and attitude simply don't support that. Maybe he'll be like Gerald Green-- cruise on his athleticism, fall out of the league, learn work ethic and fundamentals, and make a big splash again.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Noel isn't going to change his mindset as long as Carlisle keeps sandbagging him... And I don't even think this is on Carlisle at this point -- I think Cuban is calling the shots when it comes to Noel's minutes... And it probably has more to do with Rich Paul than Nerlens Noel.

So basically we're seeing an owner vs agent dispute playing out through a coach and player.

Hmm, It's hard for me to imagine Mark approaching Rick with "Hey f Noels agent, let's not play him" type of convo. Rick is too smart to not read between the lines if Mark tried to bring it up on the sly...and Mark knows that. Mark and Rick aren't tanking for various reasons and if they think we have a better chance to win with Noel on the floor more, then he would be out there playing. They just don't tho, they see him as really raw and I agree with Erika and those others who see that Noel isn't very fundamentally sound and his BBIQ isn't where they feel comfortable with the games on the line.

I see this a self inflicted from Noel. He has been outhustled by Salah and unfortunately for him Salah is making an obvious positive impact on these games. Noel does it in spurts and does impactful things here and there but there is zero consistency. Last nights game was another good example of why he was on the bench so much. Salah was playing his ass off and the easiest move for Rick was to keep playing him.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Hmm, It's hard for me to imagine Mark approaching Rick with "Hey f Noels agent, let's not play him" type of convo. Rick is too smart to not read between the lines if Mark tried to bring it up on the sly...and Mark knows that. Mark and Rick aren't tanking for various reasons and if they think we have a better chance to win with Noel on the floor more, then he would be out there playing. They just don't tho, they see him as really raw and I agree with Erika and those others who see that Noel isn't very fundamentally sound and his BBIQ isn't where they feel comfortable with the games on the line.

I see this a self inflicted from Noel. He has been outhustled by Salah and unfortunately for him Salah is making an obvious positive impact on these games. Noel does it in spurts and does impactful things here and there but there is zero consistency. Last nights game was another good example of why he was on the bench so much. Salah was playing his ass off and the easiest move for Rick was to keep playing him.

Bryan is absolutely right. Noel thinks he's entitled to play because he thinks of himself as a star. Lottery picks get more of a chance to shine, but this is year 4 and he really hasn't shown himself to be much more than occasional potential.

Outside Dirk, Rick is a guy that makes players earn their minutes. You play well, you get the start and 20-30 minutes. You get outplayed, play dumb, or don't play hard and you don't get minutes. Noel has certainly gotten opportunities, but his inconsistency (both in production and effort) have doomed him.

Dirk - HoFer beyond reproach. Sound fundamentals, good effort. Just happens to be a defensive sieve.
Mejri - shaky fundamentals, outstanding effort and passion, seems willing to work on his fundamentals
Powell - Good effort, terrible BBIQ and fundamentals
Noel - Terrible fundamentals, extremely inconsistent production and fundamentals, doesn't seem all that willing to learn/be coached

At some point Noel will either figure out that he has to be more consistent (high effort + fundamentals) to play or he'll leave thinking he deserves PT despite his terrible inconsistency. Someone will pay him, but winning teams don't reward guys with terrible fundamentals and inconsistent effort.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He'll have short-term value to a contender, and should be easy to trade with his low price tag (which also allows us to ship him without eating a bad contract in the process)... I mean, his stats aren't horrible in the limited minutes he's played. His body language sucks, but everyone knows why. Not saying we can get a first for him, but we should be able to get a decent return, even with his Bird Rights expiring.

Hell, I'm beginning to think we will be able to get a nice asset (perhaps 1st rounder) for Mejri.
Move noel to a team like Chicago who would have a chance to resign him for a 2nd rounder and then Mejri to a contender for a late first rounder.

Would be nice to have 3 picks in the 25-35 range along with a top 4 pick and DSJ to start the rebuild process.

[sefant77]

Sixers couldnt get ultra late 1st with Noel becoming RFA...we are getting horse shit for Noel as a UFA, specially when the new team doesnt need the bird rights to be able to offer "more" since he will be a below max player

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Hell, I'm beginning to think we will be able to get a nice asset (perhaps 1st rounder) for Mejri.
Move noel to a team like Chicago who would have a chance to resign him for a 2nd rounder and then Mejri to a contender for a late first rounder.

Would be nice to have 3 picks in the 25-35 range along with a top 4 pick and DSJ to start the rebuild process.

I'd take a first for Mejri, but anything less and I'm thinking he actually gives us more value as a player.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Sixers couldnt get ultra late 1st with Noel becoming RFA...we are getting horse shit for Noel as a UFA, specially when the new team doesnt need the bird rights to be able to offer "more" since he will be a below max player

Another piece of proof that we are actually trying really hard to win. What do we have to gain by sitting Noel? He isn't boosting his value or the teams value in trading him by having him sit because he isn't that good or at best he isn't consistent. Makes me wonder if MBT are all on the same page about Noel.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Another piece of proof that we are actually trying really hard to win. What do we have to gain by sitting Noel? He isn't boosting his value or the teams value in trading him by having him sit because he isn't that good or at best he isn't consistent. Makes me wonder if MBT are all on the same page about Noel.

I think you are right and that scares the heck out of me. When Curry gets healthy and the guys gel, I'm afraid we can push 30-37 wins, which is literally the worst thing we could do.

My ranking of the best results of this year
1) High lottery - Improve, build a core
2) Low lottery - improve (with lesser odds of someone good), build a core
2) Playoffs with everyone happy - retain the core, draft 15-30 for someone decent
3) Low first-round (non-lottery) - the worst position we could be in

[Bryan_Wilson]

Well hopefully we don't win more than a handful of games out of the first 30 or so. It would force the hand of the FO like last year to possibly make some trades for the future rather than winning now. Cuban as recently as 2 weeks ago talked again how important the culture of the team is. So I think it's gonna take a year like last year to force the issue with the FO.

Edit-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5qmjK78FCs found it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

You'd think the big issue would be the vets, but actually having a hungry 19 year old could be the biggest problem. If Smith keeps improving with Barnes, then wins will inevitably come. I mean, no matter who you put out there, guys could have big games. You could even make the argument that playing Mejri is an attempt to tank, but he just so happened to play well. If guys play well, then what can you do?

[mac222b]

Anything outside of top 5-ish pick this year= epic fail. DSJ and HB alone don't constitute a future. FA superstars don't seem to want to come here. Tanking will be less a surefire way to a top pick after this coming draft.

Look at Wizards with Wall, Beal, Porter all lottery picks. We hopefully have our Wall. Porter >Barnes but they are at least comparable. No Beal(though Seth has some attributes and could be considered a really poor man's Beal). 3 lottery picks for Washington that all worked out and still only a fringe championship contender. We have a ways to go to even be a playoff contender again. We need talent. Cant buy success in this CBA and with it we lost one of our main advantages-- Mark's willingness to outspend.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You'd think the big issue would be the vets, but actually having a hungry 19 year old could be the biggest problem. If Smith keeps improving with Barnes, then wins will inevitably come. I mean, no matter who you put out there, guys could have big games. You could even make the argument that playing Mejri is an attempt to tank, but he just so happened to play well. If guys play well, then what can you do?

Its almost a catch-22 situation.....our youth gives us the best chance to win so as they develop we should get better and probably win more games thus having a lower pick but if vets play we'll probably lose which helps get us a better pick.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Its almost a catch-22 situation.....our youth gives us the best chance to win so as they develop we should get better and probably win more games thus having a lower pick but if vets play we'll probably lose which helps get us a better pick.

Last night was sort of flukey. DFS hit a big 3. Mess played like Wes of old. Gortat and the rest of the Wiz were veritable sleepwalkers. Meijiri played out of his mind. Barnes and DSJ were the best versions of themselves.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Anything outside of top 5-ish pick this year= epic fail. DSJ and HB alone don't constitute a future. FA superstars don't seem to want to come here. Tanking will be less a surefire way to a top pick after this coming draft.

Look at Wizards with Wall, Beal, Porter all lottery picks. We hopefully have our Wall. Porter >Barnes but they are at least comparable. No Beal(though Seth has some attributes and could be considered a really poor man's Beal). 3 lottery picks for Washington that all worked out and still only a fringe championship contender. We have a ways to go to even be a playoff contender again. We need talent. Cant buy success in this CBA and with it we lost one of our main advantages-- Mark's willingness to outspend.

Wizards aren't exactly the best example to use today but I get your point.

[sefant77]

Trade him on dec 15th for a hot potato and admit that you prefer to play your 40 million garbage can because he always tries so hard to play the right way

[Underdog]

@NickVanExit: Where's Nerlens Noel?

THREAD:

[Thebo]

I guess this was expected under Rick. It is good that Mavs have no interest in Cousins, because Rick would bench him also.

[DavidDaMonkey]

[Me.B]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Randle is garbage and Deng is terrible overpaid garbage.

What a shitty deal for us. Skin really is sometimes braindead...

I still prefer to see if Noel gets his head straight.

I’d take a flyer on Randle straight up for Noel. I want no part of Deng’s contract though. Randle’s contract doesn’t hurt you anymore than Nerlens’ does.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Thebo

I guess this was expected under Rick. It is good that Mavs have no interest in Cousins, because Rick would bench him also.

Its sad. The one young piece we have........not even getting playing time.

[mac222b]

Want no part of Deng unless Ingram is attached. Which isn’t likely

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Me.B

I’d take a flyer on Randle straight up for Noel. I want no part of Deng’s contract though. Randle’s contract doesn’t hurt you anymore than Nerlens’ does.

Randle wants his payday next summer. And he is garbage, doesnt play a lick of defense. No thanks.

[sefant77]

Bryan Gutierrez‏ @BallinWithBryan
21 Min.vor 21 Minuten

Carlisle on Dwight Powell: "The thing I love about Dwight is a guy that always goes hard, always competes at his highest level. He’s going to give you boundless energy."

Again bullshit alert.

Yeah...."at his highest level", even if he sucks. That means Rick could put me on the court too, i also always compete on my hightest level.

Ah and the Atlanta game, Noel competed on his hightest level and Rick benched his ass. But like i said....Powell is the nice guy that always try hard, even if the result is always the same with him being a negative factor.

But looks like trying hard and being nice beats the superior talent

[Underdog]

Why Isn’t Nerlens Noel Playing in Dallas?
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/1...-rick-carlisle

“The number one job in coaching is to keep role definition simple and decisive and make sure everyone knows their job,” Carlisle said when I asked him about what he wants his centers to do on defense. “A system means there is help built into it as long as you do your job. If you go outside the system and start breaking rules willy-nilly, then there’s not going to be help built in for you, and then there’s problems and you have to get guys out of the game.”

The Mavs don’t have a lot of talent. They need all five players working as a unit to succeed. Noel has the worst net rating (minus-20) of any player on their roster, and their defensive rating is 9.5 points better when he’s off the floor. He’s at his best when he can extend out on the perimeter and keep smaller players in front of him, but Dallas needs their centers to hang back in the paint on pick-and-rolls. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Noel is in the 13th percentile in the NBA this season when defending the roll man. While he has quick hands and a great career steal rate for a center (2.9 percent), he’s still learning how to be aggressive without taking unnecessary risks, and the Mavs don’t have the personnel to protect him when he freelances.

[Bryan_Wilson]

The Mavs are open to moving Noel, and a trade might make sense for everyone. He’s a young almost 7-footer with elite athleticism and more offensive ability than most guys with his physical tools. Big men take longer to develop than guards, and it can take them a while to find the right place in the NBA. Part of the maturation process for young players means accepting what their role will be in the league. When Dallas traded for Noel, someone in the Sixers organization told me he was a situational center who thinks he’s a star. Noel reportedly asked for a max contract this offseason, and he won’t get one after what has happened this season. But there’s nothing wrong with being a situational center. A situational center can look like a star in the right situation. Noel is only 23. He still has time to find it.

Shocking to none of us.

[Me.B]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Randle wants his payday next summer. And he is garbage, doesnt play a lick of defense. No thanks.

No one says you have to pay Randle, just kick the tires. Also if the Mavs did trade for Randle wouldn’t they be obtaining his Bird Rights (which they do not have on Nerlens)? If some team actually does want to pay Randle his bet would be to leave in a sign and trade. I honestly do not know if they would be obtaining his Bird Rights though.

[sefant77]

Really wondering how often Noel thinks about his royal fuckup and counts allready his lost millions. Would also love to hear the talk between him and Rich Paul

http://hoopshype.com/2017/09/14/only...018-offseason/

There are five teams with cap space: Mavs, Bulls, Hawks, Pacers, Lakers. All of them either dont want him back (Mavs?) or got allready their center. Lakers looking for the big fishes and would probably prefer to re-sign Lopez over Noel (Lopez is from LA).

Teams like the Brooklyn Nets, Denver Nuggets and Phoenix Suns likely need to shed just one contract to have cap space. The Detroit Pistons, Memphis Grizzlies, Philadelphia 76ers, New York Knicks, Sacramento Kings and Minnesota Timberwolves are not very far off either.

And again all of them have their center.

Then three teams are going to draft Ayton/Bagley/Bamba.

Noel is looking at a MLE deal at best. Or he gambles again and signs somewhere a small one year contract. Dude is going to lose at least 30-40 million.

Lets see who he is going to blame in 1-2 years...

[rimrocker]

When we acquired Noel I thought his career would project similar to Tyson Chandler's but now it appears it will be more like Brandon Wright's or maybe even JaVale McGee's.

[EricaLubarsky]

Noel could have made the dumbest contract move in modern history

And Mavs May have really lucked out

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

When we acquired Noel I thought his career would project similar to Tyson Chandler's but now it appears it will be more like Brandon Wright's or maybe even JaVale McGee's.

So.. you saying he has a 33% chance of getting at least one championship?

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Noel could have made the dumbest contract move in modern history

t

And i Always thought no one will ever beat Latrell Sprewell...

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And i Always thought no one will ever beat Latrell Sprewell...

5/70 is the new 2/30.

[Javale McGeeber]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

When we acquired Noel I thought his career would project similar to Tyson Chandler's but now it appears it will be more like Brandon Wright's or maybe even JaVale McGee's.

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So.. you saying he has a 33% chance of getting at least one championship?

Ahem, 66%



So shiny, it was like kissing myself.

[sefant77]

Covington, one of the best 3&D guys this year finalizing a 4y/62m extension.

Noel is going to look so stupid. Latrell Sprewell stupid.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So.. you saying he has a 33% chance of getting at least one championship?

Definitely.....swap Noel for McGee this year and I can almost guarantee Noel will get a ring.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Noel could have made the dumbest contract move in modern history

And Mavs May have really lucked out

Similar to Desmond turning down 7yr/$107mil from Senators.
At least he made up somewhat by signing with Rockies but probably will regret not taking that deal with Washington.

I have a feeling Noel won't get that opportunity again....at least not anytime soon.