2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 23 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 06-20-2021, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

SO the Mavs get to hire Nash? Look at the Bucks minutes chief. It's the playoffs.

Yeah the rotations are shorter in the playoffs. Nets have a terrible defense and injuries….had nothing to do with rotations.

Dtownsfinest · 06-20-2021, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

I agree, but can't we also be smart enough to understand that there are no sure things, and recognize that teams have to get lucky on good gambles? All these teams have smart people trying to fight over the same resources. I'm just happy that Mark Cuban's retarded ass somehow ended up with Luks Doncic right when Dirk was retiring.

While true….it seems like the Mavs kill any chance of having luck go there way.

Dallas41 · 06-20-2021, 09:30 AM

Spencer Dinwiddie is now a UFA

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

After the way it ended with Nash in Dallas as a player, I don't see him being the coach.

Nash gave Cuban the option to match, and Cuban has acknowledged that he fucked up, so I don’t think there is bad blood.

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

While true….it seems like the Mavs kill any chance of having luck go there way.

That’s Cuban thinking he is the world’s best salesman. It seems to me that since the Howard thing he’s figured out he’s not and that agents are liars.

Dtownsfinest · 06-20-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

That’s Cuban thinking he is the world’s best salesman. It seems to me that since the Howard thing he’s figured out he’s not and that agents are liars.

Yeah I mean hopefully he understands that you can’t persuade guys to come to Dallas when they already have their mind made up.

Dtownsfinest · 06-20-2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Nash gave Cuban the option to match, and Cuban has acknowledged that he fucked up, so I don’t think there is bad blood.

Yeah if I’m not mistaken I think was scared of his back or knees long term?

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yeah if I’m not mistaken I think was scared of his back or knees long term?

He was just a douche who had a personal issue with the agent. He used the back as an excuse.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-20-2021, 12:22 PM

Holy spaceballs....

Quote:

With Donnie Nelson out, Carlisle lost one of his guys in the front office, leaving him to consider a future where he may have to work hand in hand with “shadow GM” Bob Voulgaris. It sounds like the relationship between Voulgaris and Carlisle had already gotten a little ridiculous by NBA standards. Amick reports that Voulgaris was behind the decision to start Boban Marjanovic in the Playoffs, in what sounds like a ‘you better start Boban or else’ type of situation. Rick Carlisle is not the type of coach who is going to put up with that shit.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6...-bob-voulgaris

Bryan_Wilson · 06-20-2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Holy spaceballs....

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6...-bob-voulgaris

I can't imagine a situation where RC would allow someone to dictate his lineups even under threat like this article stipulates. I can see what Tmac said and that lineups are suggested to him but it is ultimately RC who chooses what to play and that literally all of the league does things like that... Whether this is true or not doesn't matter though Bob has to go, and God I am sick of Dallas ownership in sports.

NeedlesKane · 06-20-2021, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

SO the Mavs get to hire Nash? Look at the Bucks minutes chief. It's the playoffs.

No, I don't want Nash as our head coach either. And I did see their minutes. That doesn't make his coaching decisions any better.

JustJay · 06-20-2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Holy spaceballs....

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2021/6...-bob-voulgaris

Even though it won't happen, I wish Cuban would sell the team.

I wanted a new coach actually, but I did not want this type of dysfunction with the staff that still remains.

JustJay · 06-20-2021, 01:04 PM

In a statement to ESPN, Carlisle said that the decision was his alone and that he is looking forward to continuing his career as a coach.

Tells you everything you need to know right there. He didn't leave to retire, he wants to be somewhere else because of the way this organization is being run. Why is some professional gambler taking control of this organization? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I'm getting to where I have to seperate the Mavs players vs the organization. I still love the players never forget 2011 love Luka, but the organization is becoming hard to root for.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-20-2021, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I can't imagine a situation where RC would allow someone to dictate his lineups even under threat like this article stipulates. I can see what Tmac said and that lineups are suggested to him but it is ultimately RC who chooses what to play and that literally all of the league does things like that... Whether this is true or not doesn't matter though Bob has to go, and God I am sick of Dallas ownership in sports.

But it makes sense if you think about it. Boban is everyone's wet dream around here and he does produce when he is on the court so we know the advanced stats love him.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-20-2021, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But it makes sense if you think about it. Boban is everyone's wet dream around here and he does produce when he is on the court so we know the advanced stats love him.

Yeah it does make sense. I just can't see RC's personality being one to go along with it. He did end up leaving so you could say he did it knowing he was done with us anyway. I wouldn't be shocked if it was true but I would be surprised.

mac222b · 06-20-2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I can't imagine a situation where RC would allow someone to dictate his lineups even under threat like this article stipulates. I can see what Tmac said and that lineups are suggested to him but it is ultimately RC who chooses what to play and that literally all of the league does things like that... Whether this is true or not doesn't matter though Bob has to go, and God I am sick of Dallas ownership in sports.

Yeah I call BS on this too. No way control freak Rick let’s someone dictate his playoff lineup. I can see him bending to Luka’s will but this is something else entirely.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-20-2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yeah it does make sense. I just can't see RC's personality being one to go along with it. He did end up leaving so you could say he did it knowing he was done with us anyway. I wouldn't be shocked if it was true but I would be surprised.

How many times has Rick done an out of left field move like that though? Barea starting in the finals is the last time I can think of such a bold move. But Barea was still a useful part of that team whereas Boban was a bench warmer.

The reality is two extremes collided. Rick and Donnie are of a different era and unwavering in their ways. It was just a matter of time that some hot shot, douchey know it all would crack the big three.

Question is: Should we be thanking Bob or hating him? Seems like most people wanted a FO shakeup. If it took him to do it, then fine by me.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-20-2021, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Yeah I call BS on this too. No way control freak Rick let’s someone dictate his playoff lineup. I can see him bending to Luka’s will but this is something else entirely.

But see, the reported implication is they were losing control. Report of Bobby V. holding meetings without Donnie? What kind of control is that?

And why would Luka yell at Rick asking him who was in charge him or Bob?

And does Rick still have control if Mark tells him that Bob is part of the braintrust?

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But it makes sense if you think about it. Boban is everyone's wet dream around here and he does produce when he is on the court so we know the advanced stats love him.

I remember that Iztok Franko guy saying that that lineup had the worst defensive numbers of any Mavs starting lineup for the regular season or something like that, even though the sample size was small. I’m sure it had something to do with Zubac being bad on defense, and Ibaka being hurt. Lue somehow knew it was going to happen though before any media did.

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And why would Luka yell at Rick asking him who was in charge him or Bob?

Yeah, I always thought this was pretty telling, also, that there was something to the Bob dictating lineups rumors.

EricaLubarsky · 06-20-2021, 03:31 PM

Doesn't paint a rosy picture. Who would want to come into a situation where the last coach was one of-- if not THE-- most respected coaches in the NBA who had to leave because he was constantly undermined.

Same with Donnie. Donnie makes a decision like on Giannis. Cuban overrides him.

Professional coaches and GMs would be smart to stay miles away from that.

Dtownsfinest · 06-20-2021, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

He was just a douche who had a personal issue with the agent. He used the back as an excuse.

Maybe….but Nash did have back issues….

FreshJive · 06-20-2021, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Maybe….but Nash did have back issues….

Yeah. I remember how he used to lay down instead of sitting during breathers, but it couldn’t have been that bad, if Phoenix was willing to give him that contract, and Cuban did not get along with that agent. I also think (my conspiracy theory, but I think it may have come up in that trial) it had something to do with Nellie. I’ll admit that it was the beginning of my bias against Cuban, and I could be downplaying the back issue (always thought the Bibby and defense stuff was overblown Cuban apologist stuff.)

BPo001 · 06-20-2021, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Yeah. I remember how he used to lay down instead of sitting during breathers, but it couldn’t have been that bad, if Phoenix was willing to give him that contract, and Cuban did not get along with that agent. I also think (my conspiracy theory, but I think it may have come up in that trial) it had something to do with Nellie. I’ll admit that it was the beginning of my bias against Cuban, and I could be downplaying the back issue (always thought the Bibby and defense stuff was overblown Cuban apologist stuff.)

I guess Parsons knees weren’t bad either since Memphis gave a max contract, and Dallas didn’t?

NeedlesKane · 06-20-2021, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

In a statement to ESPN, Carlisle said that the decision was his alone and that he is looking forward to continuing his career as a coach.

Tells you everything you need to know right there. He didn't leave to retire, he wants to be somewhere else because of the way this organization is being run. Why is some professional gambler taking control of this organization? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I'm getting to where I have to seperate the Mavs players vs the organization. I still love the players never forget 2011 love Luka, but the organization is becoming hard to root for.

His daughter is about to go to University. I wonder if that also impacted his decision. Maybe he wants to move the family closer to where she wants to go to school. Just a thought.

FreshJive · 06-21-2021, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I guess Parsons knees weren’t bad either since Memphis gave a max contract, and Dallas didn’t?

How did Nash’s career go? Cuban has already owned it. He was willing to offer a long term contract for a little less money, so he wasn’t concerned with the back. It was the agent.

FreshJive · 06-21-2021, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

His daughter is about to go to University. I wonder if that also impacted his decision. Maybe he wants to move the family closer to where she wants to go to school. Just a thought.

Zero chance

Jack.Kerr · 06-21-2021, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

I hope so. Wait, you are going to tell me how wonderful Trae is, right?

I ain't gotta tell ya, you can see for yourownself: TY. Very much.

TY actually had a very subpar shooting game yesterday, but did not back down, kept involving his teammates, kept feeding Capela on lobs, threw a dagger in clutch time, and made his FTs down the stretch.

What's more, TY (and Ayton too) is still playin'-- NBA Playoffs too, not off in some Euro-rec league between helpings of goulash.

Things I like about Trae Young:
1) Involves his teammates instead of freezing them out
2) Shows great balance between distributing and looking for his own shot
3) Makes his FTs
4) Doesn't undermine his coach or teammates

TY's still too emotional at times with referees, but not every play up and down the court non-stop.

A few nights ago, one of the analysts made the point that Young plays with an edge, with a chip on his shoulder, like he's still got something to prove, after having heard all his basketball life that he's too small to succeed at the next level, that he'll be a fatal liability on defense, blah, blah, etc. etc.

Without naming names, the analyst also contrasted Young with players who have been told how great they are all their lives, and play NOT with a chip on their shoulder, but with a sense of entitlement--that they should get every call every time; that they should take every shot; that the entire offense should run through them; that they know more than coaches who've been in the pro game for 40 years.

Edge v. Entitlement.

@Zeus: Was this what you were looking for? If not, there's more.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-21-2021, 11:24 AM

It truly puzzles me that someone who doesn't watch the Mavs, doesn't like the Mavs, and hates Luka would post here. Like it's just such a silly waste of time to try and prove something that literally nobody on here cares about.

tap2390 · 06-21-2021, 11:59 AM

Dallas-Mavs.com... the only place on the internet where a Saddiq Bey stan will argue with a Trae Young stan.

tap2390 · 06-21-2021, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I ain't gotta tell ya, you can see for yourownself: TY. Very much.

SMC0007 · 06-21-2021, 12:10 PM

Demar Derozan is the guy. The Mavs have to do all they can to get him. It's that simple.

purplefrog · 06-21-2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Demar Derozan is the guy. The Mavs have to do all they can to get him. It's that simple.

DeRozan over Norman Powell. I am curious as to why. Not disagreeing, just wondering.

JustJay · 06-21-2021, 12:48 PM

If Luka had Trae's teammates, we'd be raising the trophy next month.

Dallas41 · 06-21-2021, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

DeRozan over Norman Powell. I am curious as to why. Not disagreeing, just wondering.

He's closer to being on a PG type level as your 2nd option opposed to Powell

Plus I like DeRozan because he offers more size on the wing and brings that elite mid range game similar to KL or C.Paul

Mavs need a guy who doesn't live and die on 3's and he'll get to the FT Line

SMC0007 · 06-21-2021, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

DeRozan over Norman Powell. I am curious as to why. Not disagreeing, just wondering.

Norman would be a good back up plan. I was torn on both of them. Reasons why I like Demar better:

It takes away a good amount of the reliance on the 3 ball by having you're 2nd best player not specializing in that skill.

He's way better at penetration. He can get anywhere he wants on the floor vs anyone. He does this while being able to find open guys too. Mid range killer who can score in crunch time which we desperately need instead of guys who rely on 3 ball. I'd rather have the ball in Derozans hands than THJ or Norm Powell any day.

He finishes really well, Even in traffic. Hes an and1 machine at times. He has a similar patient pace as Luka, but he has a high gear and can blow by and jam on guys which is always a momentum builder and a crowd pleaser.

7 or more FTs a game at almost a 90% clip last season.

6 or 7 assist per game and can rebound.

He's been playing at a high level for longer than Norman and you can actually give him the ball, fvck off and let him work....unlike THJ and Norman. They both need facilitators and have low assist rates.

He's flat out the better player and will be more expensive but I think it would be a great fit. You have another guy who can facilitate and score. Multi tool guys at his level are worth the difference in price than Norman even if it means we can't keep THJ. He actually makes a huge difference. Norman is a nice addition but he and THJ aren't making much difference.

I feel as strongly about Derozan as I did with C. Wood. He is the guy we need.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-21-2021, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Quoting just to have the gif posted again.

Because it's warranted.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-21-2021, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Norman would be a good back up plan. I was torn on both of them. Reasons why I like Demar better:

It takes away a good amount of the reliance on the 3 ball by having you're 2nd best player not specializing in that skill.

He's way better at penetration. He can get anywhere he wants on the floor vs anyone. He does this while being able to find open guys too. Mid range killer who can score in crunch time which we desperately need instead of guys who rely on 3 ball. I'd rather have the ball in Derozans hands than THJ or Norm Powell any day.

He finishes really well, Even in traffic. Hes an and1 machine at times. He has a similar patient pace as Luka, but he has a high gear and can blow by and jam on guys which is always a momentum builder and a crowd pleaser.

7 or more FTs a game at almost a 90% clip last season.

6 or 7 assist per game and can rebound.

He's been playing at a high level for longer than Norman and you can actually give him the ball, fvck off and let him work....unlike THJ and Norman. They both need facilitators and have low assist rates.

He's flat out the better player and will be more expensive but I think it would be a great fit. You have another guy who can facilitate and score. Multi tool guys at his level are worth the difference in price than Norman even if it means we can't keep THJ. He actually makes a huge difference. Norman is a nice addition but he and THJ aren't making much difference.

I feel as strongly about Derozan as I did with C. Wood. He is the guy we need.

Derozan is bpa for me as well. Just go get the best players we can and worry about moves for fit on the margins later.

BigDog63 · 06-21-2021, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That may be so, but it still doesn't really matter that much. The flood gates opened when Donnie said Luka needs to pass more. Give a writer an inch...

Luka DOES need to pass more. The ball is in his hands 2 minutes more per game than anyone else in the NBA (over 11 minutes per game...next highest are in the low 9's). There isn't any flow (and Rick has a flow offense). This is why its hard for others to get in a rhythm, and also why the team then struggles when he's not in the game. I don't think Donnie said anything that wasn't true, or that Luka wouldn't agree with. Luka wants to win and I think he knows that the team isn't going to win with him being a one man show.

So, I don't think that was it. What happened after that, though, probably was...which were discussions on why Luka should pass more, who he has to pass to, how Rick could manage that, etc etc etc.

The events that unfolded, to me, indicate that the Athletic piece was very true, and became even truer as Rick and Donnie discussed with Cuban.

The question, then, is how will that impact things going forward. Will Ujuri want to join an organization with that structure in place, and even more cemented? What about the next coach?

tap2390 · 06-21-2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Luka DOES need to pass more. The ball is in his hands 2 minutes more per game than anyone else in the NBA (over 11 minutes per game...next highest are in the low 9's). There isn't any flow (and Rick has a flow offense). This is why its hard for others to get in a rhythm, and also why the team then struggles when he's not in the game. I don't think Donnie said anything that wasn't true, or that Luka wouldn't agree with. Luka wants to win and I think he knows that the team isn't going to win with him being a one man show.

So, I don't think that was it. What happened after that, though, probably was...which were discussions on why Luka should pass more, who he has to pass to, how Rick could manage that, etc etc etc.

The events that unfolded, to me, indicate that the Athletic piece was very true, and became even truer as Rick and Donnie discussed with Cuban.

The question, then, is how will that impact things going forward. Will Ujuri want to join an organization with that structure in place, and even more cemented? What about the next coach?

Can you share where you saw that Luka stat? From what I see on NBA.com player > tracking > touches Luka, Dame, Trae, Harden, and Shai are all very close in touches/ time of possession.