MAVS vs SUNS WCF GAME 5 - Page 24 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jleefilled · 06-01-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowitzki_prophecy

Why cant he?

Not to sound condescending, but people get tired. I played 10 minutes in a pick up game last night, and I was dead tired. I could maybe see the case for Powell or Dampier getting minutes instead of Keith, but bottom line, Avery is using Keith to spell Diop.

chumdawg · 06-01-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceYoung10

I notice when he is in the game Marion, Thomas and Diaw have a dunkfest. I notice when he is the game we get very few if any offense rebounds. I notice he gets 0 steals and alters zero shots. Pretty damn invisible if you ask me.

And I notice that when Diop is in the game the Suns score fast break points like crazy. Hm?

Drbio · 06-01-2006, 11:25 PM

The Official Tim Thomas Emoticon.....

chumdawg · 06-01-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

ok, i'll take the bait on this. kvh consistently was late on rotations and did a terrible job of defending interior penetration when perimeter defenders were beat. he either made the incorrect rotation, or he was 3 steps late. he was in short, god awful on defense. thats not to say that dirk was any better on D, because in spurts he was terrible too, but for the life of me, i cannot begin to figure out why AJ insists on playing dirk and KVH out there together against the suns. this is just a terrible combination for us defensively.

what was his line again from the field? he seemed pretty unremarkable in his time out there.

AE, this is just wrong. Van Horn is, of course, not our most physically gifted defender. But he is without question our smartest defender. He is almost NEVER in the wrong position defensively. His rotations this whole series have been stellar.

I think it's safe to say that when it comes to basketball IQ, Dirk is #1 on our team and KVH is #2. And it shows.

jleefilled · 06-01-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

F the TERRIBLE officiating...seriously, could a Mav breathe in the first half?

F Nash and his crazy shots

F Tim Thomas and his 26 points

F their good 3pt shooting

F Benga's suspension (which is long than Antonio Davis' for what reason?)

F the league

F Raja Bell

Suck the Funs

and most of all...

how 'bout being at the AAC watching f'in Dirk drop 50 on his best bud

Sweet man! That must of been an awesome game to watch at the AAC.

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

AE, this is just wrong. Van Horn is, of course, not our most physically gifted defender. But he is without question our smartest defender. He is almost NEVER in the wrong position defensively. His rotations this whole series have been stellar.

I think it's safe to say that when it comes to basketball IQ, Dirk is #1 on our team and KVH is #2. And it shows.

I remember several times where Van Horn failed to rotate out to the top of the key, but I thought he was generally in the right place at the right time. I also thought he did a pretty good job on Diaw at times.

The only reason I wanted Dampier out there is because I think he could make a bigger positive impact, but obviously Avery disagrees with me, and I can understand where he's coming from. Keith is more mobile and takes away some of the perimeter shots that Damp wouldn't be able to.

Now, if Keith could just contribute a bit more offensively. Then again, everybody needs to realize he's playing with a surgically repaired hand that probably still isn't right...

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-01-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

AE, this is just wrong. Van Horn is, of course, not our most physically gifted defender. But he is without question our smartest defender. He is almost NEVER in the wrong position defensively. His rotations this whole series have been stellar.

I think it's safe to say that when it comes to basketball IQ, Dirk is #1 on our team and KVH is #2. And it shows.

Your sure your sticking with that?Maybe,and its a big maybe,Van Horn is that smart of a defender,but he often looks lazy and slow on defense.
Steven Hawking wouldn't be very useful out there either...

bigdgridiron · 06-01-2006, 11:32 PM

The Mavs won...we're up 3-2

How bout we save our bitching for game 6???

Drbio · 06-01-2006, 11:32 PM

*sigh*

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-01-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

The only reason I wanted Dampier out there is because I think he could make a bigger positive impact, but obviously Avery disagrees with me, and I can understand where he's coming from. Keith is more mobile and takes away some of the perimeter shots that Damp wouldn't be able to.

Dampier is just wrong for this series,he is way way too slow.

Cybertx · 06-01-2006, 11:34 PM

But he is without question our smartest defender.

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chumdawg · 06-01-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I remember several times where Van Horn failed to rotate out to the top of the key, but I thought he was generally in the right place at the right time. I also thought he did a pretty good job on Diaw at times.

The only reason I wanted Dampier out there is because I think he could make a bigger positive impact, but obviously Avery disagrees with me, and I can understand where he's coming from. Keith is more mobile and takes away some of the perimeter shots that Damp wouldn't be able to.

Now, if Keith could just contribute a bit more offensively. Then again, everybody needs to realize he's playing with a surgically repaired hand that probably still isn't right...

But KG, he's not in the game plan offensively, any more than Diop is. I don't know about his hand, but I bet that Keith could score quite a few more points if they gave him opportunities. But they don't give him opportunities. They almost never pass him the ball. I don't know how the guy can score if they never give him the ball.

Drbio · 06-01-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowitzki_prophecy

Dampier is just wrong for this series,he is way way too slow.

Horsepoo. And he would OWN the offensive end this series.

MavKikiNYC · 06-01-2006, 11:35 PM

Confession: I watched with the sound turned down tonight, and wasn't following the box score too closely.

Had no idea Dirk was at 50 until the game was over.

Amazing performance.

LonghornDub · 06-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybertx

Terry it's our second best player and we need him to be better stack had better numbers.

He needs to do better.

Stack had a worse percentage and less assists. I guess that's better numbers?

As for the "newbie" comment, lame. Really, really lame.

raefformvp · 06-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Suck the Funs! Hah, Dub, that's quite clever. I like it!

That was such a beautiful performance by Dirk in the second half. I'm sure my new neighbors absolutely hate me! I was yelling at the top of my lungs and going crazy with my Mavs clapper. If there is a game 7, it's my turn to use the family's season tickets. But, I want no part of that. Please, Mavs, finish them off in Phoenix!

dude1394 · 06-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Damn like clockwork...the mavs win game 5, dirk goes completely nuts and when I get on here we are still talking about keith van horn.

If fans don't have something to bitch about they wouldn't have anything at all.

MavKikiNYC · 06-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

But KG, he's not in the game plan offensively, any more than Diop is. I don't know about his hand, but I bet that Keith could score quite a few more points if they gave him opportunities. But they don't give him opportunities. They almost never pass him the ball. I don't know how the guy can score if they never give him the ball.

Chum, he seems very, very hesitant on offense. His shot is way off, and at least he seems to realize that they can't afford to let him shoot his way back into rhythm for this series.

Telltale to me is how he seems to make the awkward pass to players who are too close to him. Can't get rid of the rock fast enough. He just doesn't look comfortable at all on the perimeter.

MavKikiNYC · 06-01-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Damn like clockwork...the mavs win game 5, dirk goes completely nuts and when I get on here we are still talking about keith van horn.

If fans don't have something to bitch about they wouldn't have anything at all.

Chum started it.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-01-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

But KG, he's not in the game plan offensively, any more than Diop is. I don't know about his hand, but I bet that Keith could score quite a few more points if they gave him opportunities. But they don't give him opportunities. They almost never pass him the ball. I don't know how the guy can score if they never give him the ball.

I really dont get why your rooting so strongly for this guy,he's 17-47 from the field in the playoffs so far.
Though i think he could get a hot hand and has certain skills on offense,we shouldn't force fid him the ball.
If he's not making his shots,he's not making his shots.There are much better options on offense than KVH.

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

But KG, he's not in the game plan offensively, any more than Diop is. I don't know about his hand, but I bet that Keith could score quite a few more points if they gave him opportunities. But they don't give him opportunities. They almost never pass him the ball. I don't know how the guy can score if they never give him the ball.

Maybe, but it seems to me that he touches it a lot more than Diop does (even though he doesn't touch it that much).

I see your point. I'm a fan of Keith's, so it's not like I'm trying to dump on him. I guess the way I see it, Damp could be dominant on the offensive glass and just about as effective defensively, albeit in different ways. Then again, maybe you lose something on the defensive rotations. I'll trust Avery on this one.

Mavzy45 · 06-01-2006, 11:39 PM

Good Lands, I've visited a lot of boards, but just got back from the Spurs report for the first time.......The BIGGEST CRYBABY BOARD I've ever visited.

Drbio · 06-01-2006, 11:40 PM

spursreport.com is home to 99% of the worlds

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Confession: I watched with the sound turned down tonight

I did too, because I got tired of listening to Kerr and Collins slobber all over the Suns. It was MUCH more enjoyable. Sweet silence, if you will.

Bookit · 06-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

You got that mixed up. You'll want to pay a visit to clutchfans.net for that.

I didn't know Tim Thomas was featured in a videogame before:

You are right. I went to clutchfans and was enlightened to the fact that Dirk makes the same move every time and the refs call the foul every time. Uh, guys, if Dirk makes the same move every time and they call a foul every time then you might be witnessing a foul.

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:43 PM

dude - I don't know that I'd call it bitching. This is a fairly civilized discussion, and Chum prompted it by asking how we thought Keith played tonight. (FWIW, I said I thought he played decently.)

Naturally, Dirk was phenomenal. That's pretty much a unanimous opinion here and in the rest of the known world.

Bookit · 06-01-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I did too, because I got tired of listening to Kerr and Collins slobber all over the Suns. It was MUCH more enjoyable. Sweet silence, if you will.

Were you listening to the radio and if so was there a delay?

DubOverdose · 06-01-2006, 11:43 PM

I guess I'll take on this KVH talk... KVH has had EXCELLENT defensive rotations this series. I thought he was a HUGE reason we won game 3 (if not 3, then 2). While he isn't a good defender, he atleast got in position to be able to CONTEST shots. That's huge with the Suns, just getting a hand in their face so its not a layup drill. Also, whenever someone is going to drive past him, he makes sure to foul them before they can get to the rim or take a shot. Sure some of them are shooting fouls, but they aren't And-1s. I don't have any stats to back that up, but that's been my observation since the Spurs series. For the most part, he is VERY smart with his fouls. As for offense, he hasn't had many touches, for good reason. However, he is a really good shooter at times so the Suns can't let off of him or else there is a good chance he will make them pay. Also, if he gets a shot or two to fall, then all of the sudden we might have a GREAT spot up shooting threat. Playing KVH is a bit of a gamble, but he's not putting us in to a hole when he's in and we have the potential to put a lot of pressure on the Suns if his shot is falling. That being said, I'd rather not see him play either if I had a choice, but I sure would hate to see Diop in foul trouble or so exhausted that he can't come out active every game.

DubOverdose · 06-01-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raefformvp

Suck the Funs! Hah, Dub, that's quite clever. I like it!

That was such a beautiful performance by Dirk in the second half. I'm sure my new neighbors absolutely hate me! I was yelling at the top of my lungs and going crazy with my Mavs clapper. If there is a game 7, it's my turn to use the family's season tickets. But, I want no part of that. Please, Mavs, finish them off in Phoenix!

I must admit, I saw that written on a car when I was driving to the game.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-01-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Naturally, Dirk was phenomenal. That's pretty much a unanimous opinion here and in the rest of the known world.

Well thats pretty subjective,dont you think?I mean,50 points,12 rebounds,on a 14-26 FG,5-6 for 3, and 17-18 from the line is pretty good i guess,but phenomenal?

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Were you listening to the radio and if so was there a delay?

Nah, I was just watching with the volume turned all the way down. I like hearing the crowd noise, but it was worth it not to hear Albert's orgasmic reaction every time a Suns player scored and Kerr and Collins talking about everything from a Suns perspective.

chumdawg · 06-01-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Chum, he seems very, very hesitant on offense. His shot is way off, and at least he seems to realize that they can't afford to let him shoot his way back into rhythm for this series.

Telltale to me is how he seems to make the awkward pass to players who are too close to him. Can't get rid of the rock fast enough. He just doesn't look comfortable at all on the perimeter.

You're right, and I'm sure it has to in large part with the role they are asking him to play. That's what goes underappreciated here. They are asking Van Horn to play center, for goodness sakes! They don't run any plays for him. When he gets the ball, he's pretty much supposed to pass it to a guard. His game is catch-and-shoot, and they don't set him up for that. Instead they send him out to set screens.

Sometimes they do sit him at the arc for the catch-and-shoot, but they rarely pass it to him. Listen, it's not Van Horn who is doing the Mavs wrong. I have watched him VERY closely this series. He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

Now, that's not a bad thing. Sometimes a placeholder is just what you need. But to criticize him for his lack of production is, to borrow from Cheney, beyond the pale. They are asking for absolutely nothing from Van Horn, and they are giving him the opportunity for very close to nothing, so nothing is what they should expect!

And that's okay. He doesn't have to give them anything in order to help the team. His defense and his spelling Diop is valuable enough. But some fans want to see him scoring 20, I guess.

dude1394 · 06-01-2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavzy45

Good Lands, I've visited a lot of boards, but just got back from the Spurs report for the first time.......The BIGGEST CRYBABY BOARD I've ever visited.

It's pretty amazing isn't it. It's a shame that they are part of texas.

jleefilled · 06-01-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You're right, and I'm sure it has to in large part with the role they are asking him to play. That's what goes underappreciated here. They are asking Van Horn to play center, for goodness sakes! They don't run any plays for him. When he gets the ball, he's pretty much supposed to pass it to a guard. His game is catch-and-shoot, and they don't set him up for that. Instead they send him out to set screens.

Sometimes they do sit him at the arc for the catch-and-shoot, but they rarely pass it to him. Listen, it's not Van Horn who is doing the Mavs wrong. I have watched him VERY closely this series. He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

Now, that's not a bad thing. Sometimes a placeholder is just what you need. But to criticize him for his lack of production is, to borrow from Cheney, beyond the pale. They are asking for absolutely nothing from Van Horn, and they are giving him the opportunity for very close to nothing, so nothing is what they should expect!

And that's okay. He doesn't have to give them anything in order to help the team. His defense and his spelling Diop is valuable enough. But some fans want to see him scoring 20, I guess.

Good post, Chum.

fluid.forty.one · 06-01-2006, 11:55 PM

I bet the whole plane ride home nash will be thinking "wow look what i left behind"

championships > huge contracts

u2sarajevo · 06-01-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Were you listening to the radio and if so was there a delay?

I was listening to the radio and watching with TV turned down. There was a consistent 2 second delay.

Cybertx · 06-01-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Stack had a worse percentage and less assists. I guess that's better numbers?

As for the "newbie" comment, lame. Really, really lame.

yes they are better for our sixth man than our starter guard and the percentage it's not that different terry went 6-13 in 33 min. with 3 to and 9 assists 5 pf 14 points and stack was 7-18 in 39 min 5 assists and 2 to 2 pf 16 points.

Our second or third best player has to do better than our fourth, fiftht or sixth.

kg_veteran · 06-01-2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

But some fans want to see him scoring 20, I guess.

Be fair. I think we'd all settle for 10-12 points in a game from Keith. The way I see it, if Avery had any confidence in Keith's ability to hit a shot right now, he'd give him a few shots. But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I agree. There's no reason to bitch about Van Horn right now. He's basically doing what they're asking him to do, as best he can, and he's playing hard.

bigdgridiron · 06-01-2006, 11:57 PM

50

Drbio · 06-01-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You're right, and I'm sure it has to in large part with the role they are asking him to play. That's what goes underappreciated here. They are asking Van Horn to play center, for goodness sakes! They don't run any plays for him. When he gets the ball, he's pretty much supposed to pass it to a guard. His game is catch-and-shoot, and they don't set him up for that. Instead they send him out to set screens.

Sometimes they do sit him at the arc for the catch-and-shoot, but they rarely pass it to him. Listen, it's not Van Horn who is doing the Mavs wrong. I have watched him VERY closely this series. He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

Now, that's not a bad thing. Sometimes a placeholder is just what you need. But to criticize him for his lack of production is, to borrow from Cheney, beyond the pale. They are asking for absolutely nothing from Van Horn, and they are giving him the opportunity for very close to nothing, so nothing is what they should expect!

And that's okay. He doesn't have to give them anything in order to help the team. His defense and his spelling Diop is valuable enough. But some fans want to see him scoring 20, I guess.

Nice post.