Official: Rondo to Dallas!!

[Songbard]

It's tragic we didn't go after Dragic

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

RC did the right thing by benching him for the rest of the game, no question. I hope this will be a catalyst for improved participation from Rondo moving forward, but who knows.

We'll see if Rondo develops a mysterious injury.
Maybe it's just me but players seem to be injured more when they're in bad situations or on bad teams that are going nowhere.

If it's a nagging issue between RC and RR that has been going on from the get-go it's too bad the eruption didn't happen prior to TDL.
We can only hope it doesn't rear its ugly head again...especially in the POs.

JJs facial reaction to that situation in the background was priceless.

[dirt_dobber]

in regrads to the incident - I'll go with the opinion of a future Hall Of Famer...

"Sometimes little dust-ups can even bring you together," Nowitzki said. "I remember Coach had a dust-up with [Jason Terry] right before the playoffs in 2011, and that probably was the best thing that happened to us because Jet was on his best behavior throughout the whole playoffs. Sometimes stuff like that can bring both sides closer together." http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...t-be-temporary

[Twenty4sevenn]

If you didn't expect little shouting matches from Rondo and coaching staff/teammates, you haven't watched much of Rondo's career. That's Rondo. He's an ultra-competitor with a tendency to lose his shit in the heat of the moment.

Also, Carlisle led the Pacers to the best record in the league with Ron Artest at the peak of his craziness. I'm pretty sure he can handle Rondo.

[Murphy3]

What is Dirk supposed to say? He wants Rondo to fit in. Everyone wanted this would be a tremendous move, but so far, it hasn't. That doesn't mean that he can't start to fit in a little bit better. But, some aren't a huge fan of his. I'm not. Boston was more than happy to get rid of him. Will he fit in? I hope so. If you can't fit in here in Dallas, you're probably a absolute piece of garbage when it comes to character.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

I can't believe there are still people defending this trade. Rondo's been SUCH a train wreck. From an offensive perspective, you could argue he's been the worst PG in the entire NBA since the trade to Dallas. 41% from the field AND the line with 3 turnovers a game? Wow. It's all worth it because he plays slightly above average defense at the least important defensive position on the floor though, right? Get your heads out of the sand, people.

So the least important position on the floor? You mean the league which became due to rule changes a guard heavy league? With 3p shooting on an alltime high?

Where our 3p defense was at the bottom of the league?

When we have no rim protector backup for Tyson? Brandan wasnt one. Curry, Conley, Paul, Harden, Parker, Westbook, Lillard. Our playoff opponents in the west. Everyone star guard blowing by a weak defensive guard like Nelson or Barea running towards Tyson. Hello foul trouble

Read this damn article and you know why they did the trade and why its still a good trade (if they can sort out the personal things):
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/02/...do-criticisms/

[blankie123]

this isn't really about the shouting matches. players and coaches shout at each other all the time on every team. what's significant about this incident was the fact that Rondo ignored a direct play call from Rick and a timeout was burned as a result from it. that's especially bad considering Rondo is a PG and PG's initiates the plays called by the coaches. but with that disconnect, your whole game plan come crumbling down. you might as well have no coach or bad ones like the rest of the league has. i hope Rick stand stern and not allow Rondo's big head ruin the Mavs' chances of winning it all this season

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

I can't believe there are still people defending this trade. Rondo's been SUCH a train wreck. From an offensive perspective, you could argue he's been the worst PG in the entire NBA since the trade to Dallas. 41% from the field AND the line with 3 turnovers a game? Wow. It's all worth it because he plays slightly above average defense at the least important defensive position on the floor though, right? Get your heads out of the sand, people. We have a great front office, but they screwed up big here, and killed what was a very promising season. Luckily, Dirk's declining very slowly, and the window should still be open next year if we cut this petulant child loose and pick up someone that actually fits the system.

You're confusing whether Rondo's played well with whether the Mavs should have made the trade. Two distinct issues.

They clearly should have made the trade in terms of cost-benefit. It was a low-risk, high-reward move. It still may not work out, but it will hardly set them back if that's the case. Those are the best kinds of moves to make, but you have to understand the concepts of expected value and variance.

[MaverickGold]

Rondo Advanced Stats Rankings

Value over Replacement Player #28 (0.5) - equivalents; Mario Chalmers, Beno Udrih, CJ Watson
+/- #33 (-0.6)
Defensive +/- #3 (1.3)
Offensive +/- #68 (-1.9) - below Shane Larkin
Win Shares per 48 #66 (.031)
Defensive WS #9 (1.8)
Offensive WS #90 (-0.9) - out of 91... only Michael Carter-Williams is worse
Usage% #73 (19.7)
TO% #85 (23.7) - this one shocked me
Blk% #52 (0.3)
Stl% #17 (2.5)
Ast% #10 (40.6)
Reb% #2 (10.8)
DRB% #3 (10.8)
ORB% #6 (4.2)
FreeThrowRate #70 (.136)
TS% #80 (42.6)
PER #44 (13.3)


Top of the league in rebounding and defense for a point guard. Absolute bottom of the league in shooting, free throws, and offense. Nothing surprising there.

The combination puts him at the bottom of the league starters in value, +/-, and PER.

Bottom of the league in Win Shares and TO%.

Just the stats. No evaluation.

[Melonhead]

I was sitting near the baseline on the opposite side of our bench. After the cameras cut, both Rondo and Coach Carlisle sat down. When Coach sat down, Rondo started yelling across the bench at Coach and Carlisle turned to Rondo and said "shut up" and gave him that look you see in the press conferences when he gets a stupid question. Rondo then continued to yell and Coach Carlisle just started ignoring him. Rondo didn't stop then, he did it for a few more seconds when Asst. Coach Jamahl Mosley, who was sitting next to Rondo (between Rondo and Coach Carlisle), got in Rondo's face and told him to shut up once and for all. That's when Rondo's temper tantrum really ended.

This came from reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/co...d_exchange_in/

[Kante]

Non-issue. I remeber the same with Terry in 2011. If it happens again it can be a problem.

[LSMF]

Jet and JJ getting into a heated argument is much more different than Rajon Rondo deciding to ignore Rick, and then telling Rick to "Fuck Off". Rick Carlisle is one of the best coaches in the league. Yes, he can be stubborn but overall the man knows his stuff. You don't pull that shit with him. I've never seen any of our players openly disrespect him. Rick isn't going to make a big issue out of this but I don't think this incident will just be forgotten. Like I've said in the past, I personally don't respect Rajon Rondo's game. However, I do want to see him succeed as a Maverick. Openly disrespecting one of the best coaches in the league is not the way to go about that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The guard defense is astronomically better. Derozan and Lowry were 11-36 from the field. As I mentioned in this thread, it obviously isn't just Rondo. What the trade did was send a message to the rest of the team that not playing defense won't be tolerated. So far it has worked. Ellis and Harris are playing the best defense they've played maybe their whole Maverick careers lately. I mean, let all of the focus be on Rondo's offense while the rest of the team beats you. I'm cool with that.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The guard defense is astronomically better. Derozan and Lowry were 11-36 from the field. As I mentioned in this thread, it obviously isn't just Rondo. What the trade did was send a message to the rest of the team that not playing defense won't be tolerated. So far it has worked. Ellis and Harris are playing the best defense they've played maybe their whole Maverick careers lately. I mean, let all of the focus be on Rondo's offense while the rest of the team beats you. I'm cool with that.

Your boy has been absolutely amazing lately. His defense last night was absolutely stunning.

[spreedom]

I would just like to say that I agree wholeheartedly with the comments from everybody about Rondo's shooting. It's mostly been miserable here and it has to improve considerably if we want to seriously contend with this current roster.

I disagree vehemently with any claims that his defense isn't good enough to offset that. I've sat through at least 10 years (Kidd years included) of nothing but the Mavs getting absolutely thrashed by opposing point guards. And the assertion that PG defense is "the least important position" on the floor? Buffoonery. I don't believe that anyone really thinks that. I refuse to accept that as a person's real opinion and not just an attempt to discredit Rondo's impact on that end.

My big takeaway from the last ~20 games is that offensively, Rondo and Ellis flat out do not work together. Ellis is a game 3pt shooter, and because of that defenses generally seem to give him a pretty high level of respect from that range, but he and Rondo both clank threes at horrific rates and if we want our offense to be top-10 potential (while keeping our defense at the same level) one of those two has to go. It's been my feeling since about last April that we should have tried to convert Ellis into a more traditional shooting guard and/or combination of reliable backups, and I don't think, Rondo's offensive struggles notwithstanding, that my opinion has changed much. I think Ellis is going to expect a huge payday this summer, and if we give Rondo even like 80% of his market value, we won't be able to build a quality bench.

My feeling is that, barring anything awful that we haven't seen yet, the way to go this summer is to let Ellis walk (or trade him if he opts in) and try to get a quality two-way (3pt competent) shooting guard to stick next to Rondo. I think that fixes a lot of what ails this offense.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I would just like to say that I agree wholeheartedly with the comments from everybody about Rondo's shooting. It's mostly been miserable here and it has to improve considerably if we want to seriously contend with this current roster.

I disagree vehemently with any claims that his defense isn't good enough to offset that. I've sat through at least 10 years (Kidd years included) of nothing but the Mavs getting absolutely thrashed by opposing point guards. And the assertion that PG defense is "the least important position" on the floor? Buffoonery. I don't believe that anyone really thinks that. I refuse to accept that as a person's real opinion and not just an attempt to discredit Rondo's impact on that end.

My big takeaway from the last ~20 games is that offensively, Rondo and Ellis flat out do not work together. Ellis is a game 3pt shooter, and because of that defenses generally seem to give him a pretty high level of respect from that range, but he and Rondo both clank threes at horrific rates and if we want our offense to be top-10 potential (while keeping our defense at the same level) one of those two has to go. It's been my feeling since about last April that we should have tried to convert Ellis into a more traditional shooting guard and/or combination of reliable backups, and I don't think, Rondo's offensive struggles notwithstanding, that my opinion has changed much. I think Ellis is going to expect a huge payday this summer, and if we give Rondo even like 80% of his market value, we won't be able to build a quality bench.

My feeling is that, barring anything awful that we haven't seen yet, the way to go this summer is to let Ellis walk (or trade him if he opts in) and try to get a quality two-way (3pt competent) shooting guard to stick next to Rondo. I think that fixes a lot of what ails this offense.

Let our currently best offensive player go and keep a team cancer? Great strategy. As Dirk says, I got too much Monta

[spreedom]

Basketball is not played in a vacuum.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I think Ellis is going to expect a huge payday this summer, and if we give Rondo even like 80% of his market value, we won't be able to build a quality bench.

My feeling is that, barring anything awful that we haven't seen yet, the way to go this summer is to let Ellis walk (or trade him if he opts in) and try to get a quality two-way (3pt competent) shooting guard to stick next to Rondo. I think that fixes a lot of what ails this offense.

Montas payday:
The Mavs have just early bird rights and can offer around 15m. They are going to offer him this money and im pretty sure he is taking this. And if he opts in to get a big payday in 2016 he wont have any trade value because he is an expiring contract.

It doesnt matter how much we are giving Rondo because after new contracts of Ellis and Tyson we wont much cap space anyway (maybe 10-12m and that are going to get you a 3rd tier almost roleplayer this year). We have to fix our bench via draft pick, Feltons contract and the mMLE. Thats why it was so important to get a player with bird rights (Rondo), so we can just keep everyone with going over the cap.

Keep Rondo and Ellis, minimize their minutes together and try to get great fitting 3rd guard via pick/Felton/Harris.

Also: Just watch the 2015 FA class before you talk about letting Rondo go or letting Monta go "to go for a quality two-way SG". The market will be dead because almost every guy gonna stay. Just think which player you could get for 10-12m after we let Rondo walk-. The contracts gonna rise allready because teams gonna pre-spend some of the 2016 cap raise (like the Heat with Dragic) http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm

PG:
Dragic: Miami gonna throw five years max at him.
Reggie: RFA, Stan loves him, they match
Knight: RFA, Suns gonna match
And yeah, that was the PG FA list...

SG:
Butler: After Rose being done they match anything
Leonard: Stays with Spurs

Gasol stays anyway with Memphis. Love allready told he opts in. So he has two chances to get a ring and has the option for a giant 2016 payday and going to the Kobe-free Lakers as old UCLA dude.

And then you have the 2nd/3rd tier FA and they are going to get paydays from desperate teams (the Afflalos, Asiks, Tobias Harris, Danny Green etc each guy will walk with 10+ a year home)

Everyone should pray that the Rondo thing doesnt blow up. Because what are the PG options? There are NONE in the FA (list above) and who would be available via trade? With our non-existent assets? Our best case is there a 31y old Jarrett Jack or hoping the Nets buying out Deron.Just click yourself through the team roster and BE REALISTIC.

And please dont come with some average PG putting up high numbers on trashy teams. Doesnt mean they are WC playoff material. We all know since that awesome Darrell Collison season...

[sefant77]

This is how our summer going to look:

Under contract:
Dirk/Parsons/Harris: 28m
capholds: 4-5m
Monta new contract: 15m 4 years
Tyson (hard to say): around 10m 3y

thats around 58m. Means we have the option to let Rondo go and sign a FA with around 10m or signing Rondo. But there arent any quality FA PG, so you spend the money on another position and have again the giant hole on PG.

Or you keep Rondo via Birds (for how much doesnt matter much) and fill your bench with the draft/Felton/MMLE...

[rimrocker]

Tonight will be telling in many ways.
We'll see Rondo's true character and how he responds to the situation.
We'll also see if that was a teaching opportunity for Rick or if he has reached the limit.
This problem could have been festering behind the scenes for a long time and finally came to a boiling point last night.

I'm guessing the two have had a lengthy closed door discussion and Rondo will start tonight and get quality minutes.

I think we'll have an idea of the direction the Mavs plan to go with Rondo after tonight's game...if Rick and Rondo can coexist.

[ocelot_ark]

I have SOME patience for Rondo now that I know he's working with Holger on his shot some. But I will abandon all value for Rondo if he tries to undermine Rick. I understand players will lash out periodically, but he needs to cut that out pronto.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

I have SOME patience for Rondo now that I know he's working with Holger on his shot some. But I will abandon all value for Rondo if he tries to undermine Rick. I understand players will lash out periodically, but he needs to cut that out pronto.

To be fair, Rondo and Rivers butted heads as well. Rondo is just that type of player.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

To be fair, Rondo and Rivers butted heads as well. Rondo is just that type of player.

I just hope the Mavs front office doesn't let him ruin the locker room.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by sefant77

This is how our summer going to look:

Under contract:
Dirk/Parsons/Harris: 28m
capholds: 4-5m
Monta new contract: 15m 4 years
Tyson (hard to say): around 10m 3y

thats around 58m. Means we have the option to let Rondo go and sign a FA with around 10m or signing Rondo. But there arent any quality FA PG, so you spend the money on another position and have again the giant hole on PG.

Or you keep Rondo via Birds (for how much doesnt matter much) and fill your bench with the draft/Felton/MMLE...

Thank you sefant77!!! You have done a wonderful job of articulating what several of us have been trying to say.

I think that sums it up. If we wan the same team as before the trade then by all means let Rondo walk because we are looking at JJB or Devin as our starting PG or someone the caliber of Nelson. No chance of competing with that lineup as we have already found out...especially with Dirk and Tyson aging another year.
This Rondo thing simply has to work out or we are in big trouble this off-season.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

This is how our summer going to look:

Under contract:
Dirk/Parsons/Harris: 28m
capholds: 4-5m
Monta new contract: 15m 4 years
Tyson (hard to say): around 10m 3y

thats around 58m. Means we have the option to let Rondo go and sign a FA with around 10m or signing Rondo. But there arent any quality FA PG, so you spend the money on another position and have again the giant hole on PG.

Or you keep Rondo via Birds (for how much doesnt matter much) and fill your bench with the draft/Felton/MMLE...

You forgot about Felton's 4Mil. And Aminu would be another mil if he doesn't opt out. And I'm not convinced Tyson re-signs at around 10. Think it could take more. Also, to be even more precise, Gal is 1Mil of dead money on the cap.

Basically, Mavs will have a very hard time significantly upgrading PG if they don't re-sign Rondo. They won't have cap room. They're very likely to operate above the cap and use the MLE/BAE no matter what happens with Rondo. Monta not opting-out is about the only thing that I think could cause them to dip under and use cap space. And even then I'm not sure it's a guarantee they'd do that.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

To be fair, Rondo and Rivers butted heads as well. Rondo is just that type of player.

We really needed a player with a bit of an attitude before Rondo came along. I was just hoping that attitude would be directed more at the opposition. Rondo brings a little of Kidd and Stevenson minus the shooting to the table and I like that.

Just hope the dude channels his attitude in the right direction going forward.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You forgot about Felton's 4Mil. And Aminu would be another mil if he doesn't opt out. And I'm not convinced Tyson re-signs at around 10. Think it could take more.

Basically, Mavs will have a very hard time significantly upgrading PG if they don't re-sign Rondo. They won't have cap room. They're very likely to operate above the cap and use the MLE/BAE no matter what happens with Rondo.

They really have no choice but to go over the cap no matter what if they want to be even somewhat relevant. I'm not a big Rondo fan by any means but do feel it is imperative that he works out because Harris and Barea aren't enough in this brutal West and I doubt it gets any better next season...most likely tougher.

Wonder what Cuban is thinking about all of this.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You forgot about Felton's 4Mil. And Aminu would be another mil if he doesn't opt out. And I'm not convinced Tyson re-signs at around 10. Think it could take more. Also, to be even more precise, Gal is 1Mil of dead money on the cap.

yeah forgot about Felton. But if the Mavs go the max cap space route they would stretch him and he would count for like 1.3m against the cap instead of the 500k for the cap hold.

I also think Aminu will have a nice season enough not to take the 1m player option.

I think Aminu will be a strong candidate for our mMLE. And Felton+ draft pick going in a trade for a solid backup big. Barea re-sign for the vet min.

Means we really need to make Rondo work here so we can keep him...

[sefant77]

In other news: Could someone please slap Tim MacMahon for his stupid questions and twitter actions trying to blow this thing up even more?!

Thanks.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Basketball is not played in a vacuum.

It would be fun to watch if it was.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

I just hope the Mavs front office doesn't let him ruin the locker room.

If anything it has had the opposite effect. Dirk is rebounding better, the guards are playing better defense, Ellis has shot himself out of his post hip injury funk, RJ and Aminu have come on, etc. etc. I feel like the spotlight on Rondo has taken the pressure off of everyone else.

Of course, a three game winning streak can look good from many angles. They have to dig down and beat Atlanta tonight.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If anything it has had the opposite effect. Dirk is rebounding better, the guards are playing better defense, Ellis has shot himself out of his post hip injury funk, RJ and Aminu have come on, etc. etc. I feel like the spotlight on Rondo has taken the pressure off of everyone else.

Of course, a three game winning streak can look good from many angles. They have to dig down and beat Atlanta tonight.

Pretty much. Everyone has responded. Aminu is in top shape. Harris isn't being as much of a bonehead and is playing the best defense of his career. Vets can get too comfortable. By layiing into Rondo, the message is clear-- not even the stars can slack.

That play last night? Rick looked to be telling Rondo to push it. Rondo walked it up and Rick called a timeout. his message was that EVERYONE must hustle. Now everyone is.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by sefant77

This is how our summer going to look:

Under contract:
Dirk/Parsons/Harris: 28m
capholds: 4-5m
Monta new contract: 15m 4 years
Tyson (hard to say): around 10m 3y

thats around 58m. Means we have the option to let Rondo go and sign a FA with around 10m or signing Rondo. But there arent any quality FA PG, so you spend the money on another position and have again the giant hole on PG.

Or you keep Rondo via Birds (for how much doesnt matter much) and fill your bench with the draft/Felton/MMLE...

No way Tyson only gets 10. He's playing better than in 2011

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

In other news: Could someone please slap Tim MacMahon for his stupid questions and twitter actions trying to blow this thing up even more?!

Thanks.

Man, I completely disagree. He asked a question that needed to be asked. And I don't think this thing needs to be "blown up". I'm not saying this is necessarily something that will be a big deal, but it's certainly not a no brainer that it's not.

Players and/or coaches getting heated at each other is one thing. A player completely ignoring a coach yelling instruction at him is another.

Could easily just blow over. But there's more than a small chance that it doesn't, imo.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

No way Tyson only gets 10. He's playing better than in 2011

At the start of the next season Chandler is 33.5 years old. At the end of a three year contract he is 36.5. Thats pretty much like Dirk in his finals MVP age and Dirk this season and we all know how much his athlecism declined. With Chandler i expect it even more. I give Chandler two more good seasons but then i think with 35-36 he is going to decline rapidly in his third season.

So i think overall 3/30 is fair. Underpaid the first year, overpaid the third year. or they do some frontloading (12-10-8m)

[ffballer]

i refuse to read all the postings, as there's stuff that is so damn dumb, anyone who played ball knows that there's gonna be times when u and the coach go at each other, ur always gonna lose as he's gonna sit ur ass on the bench,as it's his team, so don't make it a big deal, this stuff happens all the time

[joemoeschmoe]

Agree with ffballer. These guys are big boys and aren't sitting around sucking their thumbs feeling sorry about themselves and why they couldn't work it out in that moment.

Only the playoffs matter. If Rondo is a dud in the playoffs, I'll eat my hat. If he plays well, all will be forgiven no matter how many times he tells RC to fuck himself.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Wonder what Cuban is thinking about all of this.

"Not the first time, not the last time. It'll happen again. It's not just Rajon. It's a long season. In my 15 years, I've seen it happen more times than I can count, and we survive every time." --Mark Cuban

[justvisitingsixerfan]

Hello there Mav fans I am new here. I am a Sixer fan, so PLEASE...don't hold that against me okay ? ( LOL )


When this trade went down, I was the only person on another message board that said this was a horrible fit for Rondo. The Mavs team was cruising at the time. Averaging like 111pts a game for the season. And Rondo's style has totally clashed with the Mavs style of rotating the ball, and never keeping it too long in any one players hands.


Well it's not that Rondo is not talented...he is. But, is he really a fit here for the next 5 years ? And, if re-signed, does that maybe convince Ellis to not wanna sign back in Dallas ? Just wondering. Anyways, HELLO to all my NEW Texas Brothers & sisters.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by justvisitingsixerfan

Hello there Mav fans I am new here. I am a Sixer fan, so PLEASE...don't hold that against me okay ? ( LOL )


When this trade went down, I was the only person on another message board that said this was a horrible fit for Rondo. The Mavs team was cruising at the time. Averaging like 111pts a game for the season. And Rondo's style has totally clashed with the Mavs style of rotating the ball, and never keeping it too long in any one players hands.


Well it's not that Rondo is not talented...he is. But, is he really a fit here for the next 5 years ? And, if re-signed, does that maybe convince Ellis to not wanna sign back in Dallas ? Just wondering. Anyways, HELLO to all my NEW Texas Brothers & sisters.

Great first post. Welcome to the forum.