LAD - Life After Deron - Page 25 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

oilfieldtrash · 07-05-2012, 10:52 AM

I'd actually be okay with a full on rebuild. This keeping the powder dry for another year, signing a 40 year old point guard, only to be turned down again next year is insanity.
This team as is will be a lottery team. I'm 100% sure another year older Dirk and the likes of Roddy, Dojo, 40 year old Kidd ain't bringing a superstar.

alby · 07-05-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not sure how "hardcore" of a fan I can be if next year's squad actually ends up being worse than the previous squad that featured a listless Lamar Odom and pouty Jason Terry during a lockout-shortened season...

I mean, we're only a little over a year removed from winning the title, and we're seriously considering the possibility that we might be a lotto team next season? I figured landing Deron Williams was a long shot, but I had no idea we'd be plunging into "worst-case scenario" territory if we didn't get him...

Sucks doesn't it

But we gotta face the facts. The sooner the organization does, the quicker we can get things turned around.

There's no denying the greatness that is Dirk. Just because he's on our team, we'll probably make the playoffs. But, as of right now, what's the point in that is my question

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-05-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not sure how "hardcore" of a fan I can be if next year's squad actually ends up being worse than the previous squad that featured a listless Lamar Odom and pouty Jason Terry during a lockout-shortened season...

I mean, we're only a little over a year removed from winning the title, and we're seriously considering the possibility that we might be a lotto team next season? I figured landing Deron Williams was a long shot, but I had no idea we'd be plunging into "worst-case scenario" territory if we didn't get him...

My sentiments exactly.

rabbitproof · 07-05-2012, 11:09 AM

Dragic has a good chance to be the PG version of Gortat.

markus1234 · 07-05-2012, 11:11 AM

Keep Tyson, sign Nash or Dragic this year, sign a MAX player later(if possible).

This is what Cuban should have done.

BGMaverick9 · 07-05-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Dragic has a good chance to be the PG version of Gortat.

Good thing they're together!

saclare · 07-05-2012, 11:14 AM

Has the deadline to sign always been after the official start to free agency, aka the end of the NBA calendar year?

It's completely mind-boggling that players can't sign and just commit verbally. I'm asking because I don't know whether it's a result of the new CBA or the lockout shortened season.

FINtastic · 07-05-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not sure why the age of the superstar matters when you're talking about re-tooling for the short term. Obviously neither way is guaranteed, but I'll still take the odds of the Mavs swinging a trade with their cap space, exceptions and whatever assets they acquire this offseason.

And in my opinion, I think the Mavs would have to view blowing it up to be clearly, demonstrably better to even consider trading Dirk.

How does it not affect it? First of all, it affects the pitches you make to free agents, who are now going to always have the doubt in the corner of their minds that this is the year that Dirk drops off. And when you have a completely bare roster outside of Dirk (as Deron Williams correctly pointed out), how appealing of a choice are you?

Also it affects the windows of the players that they can target. You could have targeted young players that would grow into their primes if Dirk were 28 years old. You'd at least have that option. The Mavericks now only have one option and that's trying for the Dwight Howards of the world. And even if they land Dwight, they still have to assemble a supporting cast around the two, and with Dirk's short window, it doesn't give them a lot of time to do so.

The fact of the matter is that the Mavericks have backed themselves into a situation where they have a short window and nothing in the way of assets (outside of Dirk). I don't see how the Mavericks are going to win out when there are teams out there with better assets and/or the similar empty cap space.

oilfieldtrash · 07-05-2012, 11:18 AM

Phoenix loses Nash so they sign Dragic and drafted the best passing point guard since Kidd.

Mavs lose Terry, Chandler, Barea, Stevenson, swing and miss on Deron. They add Carter, don't even entertain Dragic, re-sign a 40 year old to multiple year deal, and darn it powder is dry

LonghornDub · 07-05-2012, 11:20 AM

Ben & Skin just said Stein is saying 3 years, $9M (total) for Kidd.

Not a horrible per-year number, but three years for a guy his age? Seriously? I hope there's a team option.

Underdog · 07-05-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

How does it not affect it? First of all, it affects the pitches you make to free agents, who are now going to always have the doubt in the corner of their minds that this is the year that Dirk drops off. And when you have a completely bare roster outside of Dirk (as Deron Williams correctly pointed out), how appealing of a choice are you?

Also it affects the windows of the players that they can target. You could have targeted young players that would grow into their primes if Dirk were 28 years old. You'd at least have that option. The Mavericks now only have one option and that's trying for the Dwight Howards of the world. And even if they land Dwight, they still have to assemble a supporting cast around the two, and with Dirk's short window, it doesn't give them a lot of time to do so.

That's the thing though - Dwight, like Deron, is going to want the supporting cast in place BEFORE he signs a contract with us...

saclare · 07-05-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's the thing though - Dwight, like Deron, is going to want the supporting cast in place BEFORE he signs a contract with us...

I think that was the key in the decision. I mean, as bad as the Joe Johnson trade and Gerald Wallace signing were, it still showed Deron that the talent was assembling and it was there. Then they could also dangle the possibility of Dwight and D-Will gets swayed. Again, I still don't think the players see the financial side of the NBA from a TEAM'S pespective. At least not 100%. I sincerely hope the agents have these discussions but you never know...

rabbitproof · 07-05-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ben & Skin just said Stein is saying 3 years, $9M (total) for Kidd.

Not a horrible per-year number, but three years for a guy his age? Seriously? I hope there's a team option.

40 is the new 30, right?

saclare · 07-05-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

40 is the new 30, right?

Yup, he can always get a head start and begin plasma enriched treatments on his knees and be good to go!

BGMaverick9 · 07-05-2012, 11:30 AM

Wherever the Over/Under was for Kidd, I was taking the over with the idea he got a 2 year deal

FINtastic · 07-05-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's the thing though - Dwight, like Deron, is going to want the supporting cast in place BEFORE he signs a contract with us...

Exactly. Given Dirk's age, we don't have a ton of time to assemble that supporting cast and present ourselves as worthy to the Superstar free agent who can be as selective as he likes.

Bayliss · 07-05-2012, 11:30 AM

3 more years of Kidd? God.

dude1394 · 07-05-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Maybe I will be proven completely wrong. Maybe Dwight comes here, is completely happy, wins 2 rings with Dirk and starts another dynasty... I'd love that.

But what I see is, year after year, hoping that the 1 or 2 great free agents, Like Lebron or Deron chooses Dallas, only to have them thumb their noses at the city to choose a place that is more cosmopolitan. You don't like it. I don't like it either. But continuing to do it year after year doesn't make much sense. Keeping our powder dry for CP or DH next year? its like drawing to an inside straight. The odds suck.

As for rooting for Perot's team, it was emotionally easier because there were no expectations and you knew he would screw it up by, say trading JKidd. Mark has raised expectations and having them dashed hurts. With the Tyson deal he pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Yes we are spoiled because he and/or Donnie did it repeatedly, with Dirk and Nash and Jet and Marion. That just makes this last week all the more painful.

But I'm still hoping for a miricle.

I agree with the assessment of the cities. I think it's cosmopolitan and natural beauty/lifestyle. It's not that Dallas is a hick town or any sort of racial component because Detroit/new orleans/Atlanta are considered very favorable to the young black man, but they really do not get considered either.

Just the way it is. The spurs do it by having a well functioning farm system. They grow them up and once they are semi-valuable they have trading assets. The Mavs traditionally have done it via trade, no more it appears and they seem to feel financial flexibility is the ticket, I think they are borderline insane actually.

Murphy3 · 07-05-2012, 11:32 AM

Yep, I wouldn't have given him 1 year at 3 million.

LonghornDub · 07-05-2012, 11:34 AM

I doubt Kidd even plays out all 3 years.

Murphy3 · 07-05-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I agree with the assessment of the cities. I think it's cosmopolitan and natural beauty/lifestyle. It's not that Dallas is a hick town or any sort of racial component because Detroit/new orleans/Atlanta are considered very favorable to the young black man, but they really do not get considered either.

Just the way it is. The spurs do it by having a well functioning farm system. They grow them up and once they are semi-valuable they have trading assets. The Mavs traditionally have done it via trade, no more it appears and they seem to feel financial flexibility is the ticket, I think they are borderline insane actually.

Honestly, it's about the team. Players will come to Dallas to play for the Cowboys. They'll go to Texas to play for the Rangers now that they're competitive to great. This Mavs team isn't seen as an attractive place to play for obvious reasons. The team is old. That's what it comes down to.

Players aren't choosing New York and LA over Dallas because Dallas isn't on the coast. They're choosing LA and New York because Dallas has one aging star and a roster full of what? Is Jason Kidd really a draw? No, not in the freaking least if you're talking about what he does on the court. Haywood? No, not at all. Matrix? I suppose it'd be nice to play alongside a solid defender. Roddy? Nope. Dirk? Obviously yes, but he's getting old.

There is nothing besides an aging Dirk to draw players here to Dallas. I'm sorry, but that's not enough. It's not about the city. It's about the Mavs franchise. The Mavs are set up to quickly become just about the worst thing you can be in the NBA.. average.

dude1394 · 07-05-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ben & Skin just said Stein is saying 3 years, $9M (total) for Kidd.

Not a horrible per-year number, but three years for a guy his age? Seriously? I hope there's a team option.

Wow but mle was too much for jet. As I think I mentioned earlier, this is bordering on insanity. I'm not sure how much worse you could damage your brand if you tried.

Bayliss · 07-05-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

I doubt Kidd even plays out all 3 years.

So he retires? Then why give him the contract for 3?

FINtastic · 07-05-2012, 11:37 AM

I like Kidd and don't mind keeping him around, but how can you give him a 3 year contract at $3 mil per knowing full well that he's a backup at best, but then be unwilling to shell out the contract Dragic got when he can be a top 10 point guard if he's not a tease?

oilfieldtrash · 07-05-2012, 11:38 AM

I'm okay with Kidd for a year or two just for his basketball mind. There's gonna be a lot of minutes for young guys and no one better than Kidd to teach them. The third year just boggles the mind.

roadrunner · 07-05-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm never going to be as naive to think that percentage stays at 3.33% so I apologize if it could be construed that way.

So if Deron was more, say, 60-40 towards the Nets, do you still think ANY team in the NBA has greater than a 40% chance at winning it all?

The point is we dont know the exact odds for Deron signing here nor the odds of repeating if we would have kept Chandler. It is subjective. So, to pretend we know do is fruitless.

I would go as far to say that "I think" the odds were be better that we would have signed Deron vs signing Chandler and repeating...but, again, that is subjective to a degree.

To answer your question about odds I would normally just side with bookies...thats the best I could do. So, if you believe the odds were 40% that we would sign Deron then I would guess you would be correct that those are better than the odds to repeat as champs and Im ok with that. I am just as ok with those who think otherwise just because this is subjective

For what it is worth here are the 2013 odds to win title...
Miami Heat 11/4
Oklahoma City Thunder 5/1
Chicago Bulls 6/1

Underdog · 07-05-2012, 11:48 AM

So, we're probably realistically looking at Delonte/Kidd at point, right?

With Haywood as our starting center and Roddy (or question marks) stepping in for JET as our second-highest scorer? Awesome.

Pongo · 07-05-2012, 11:49 AM

Why not four years for J-Kidd? Because that would be, you know, one year more! And more is always better. "Swing for the fences" type of move. Bravo.

BGMaverick9 · 07-05-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So, we're probably realistically looking at Delonte/Kidd at point, right?

With Haywood as our starting center and Roddy (or question marks) stepping in for JET as our second-highest scorer? Awesome.

Looking incredibly likely.

rabbitproof · 07-05-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So, we're probably realistically looking at Delonte/Kidd at point, right?

With Haywood as our starting center and Roddy (or question marks) stepping in for JET as our second-highest scorer? Awesome.

AHAHAHAHAHA!!

We should just trade Marion for space/picks/cheap talent. Fine, Dirk is a superstar, blahblah. Marion is still sucking cap space though.

dude1394 · 07-05-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

AHAHAHAHAHA!!

We should just trade Marion for space/picks/cheap talent. Fine, Dirk is a superstar, blahblah. Marion is still sucking cap space though.

To be perfectly honest I expect the Mavs are trying to trade Marion/Haywood right now. It is the only way to get lightening in a bottle and a magic unicorn.

ibivibiv · 07-05-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Ben & Skin just said Stein is saying 3 years, $9M (total) for Kidd.

Not a horrible per-year number, but three years for a guy his age? Seriously? I hope there's a team option.

<sarcasm> Hey.... that's our big FA move this year. We finally got a player to sign with us woo hoo. </sarcasm> I love Kidd, he has done a lot for us. I just wish he was about 7 years younger. This signing indicates to me that they have no plan and are just grasping at well known friendlies to sign anyone at this point. This collapse by the office to me is equivalent to the 2006 finals collapse. Disappointing would be an understatement.

OneLove22 · 07-05-2012, 12:54 PM

Anybody know what's going on with Aaron Brooks? DJ Augustin?

jthig32 · 07-05-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I like Kidd and don't mind keeping him around, but how can you give him a 3 year contract at $3 mil per knowing full well that he's a backup at best, but then be unwilling to shell out the contract Dragic got when he can be a top 10 point guard if he's not a tease?

Well first of all, the Mavs clearly don't think that Dragic is very likely to be a top 10 PG, or they'd have been more interested.

Secondly, while I'm not a huge fan of bringing Kidd back, 3Mil a season is cheap for a rotation player.

nowhereman · 07-05-2012, 01:01 PM

Dwain Price on twitter:

Quote:

Dwain Price ‏@DwainPrice
Once they quickly get Jason Kidd underwraps, the #Mavs will try to get Laker free agent PG Ramon Sessions on their roster.

Ugh. Defensive liability that can't shoot.

CanadianMavsFan · 07-05-2012, 01:02 PM

No chance of pursuing Lowry then? For the trade exception and maybe a first rounder?

OneLove22 · 07-05-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Ugh. Defensive liability that can't shoot.

If there is anything that Sessions is good at, it's defense.

OneLove22 · 07-05-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianMavsFan

No chance of pursuing Lowry then? For the trade exception and maybe a first rounder?

I know Toronto is about to get him via trade.

Underdog · 07-05-2012, 01:04 PM

Ramon Sessions??

OneLove22 · 07-05-2012, 01:06 PM

I actually like Sessions lol.