(NSFW) OFFICIAL: Deandre Jordan sucks

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Fragism

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook?

Dirk and Nash

[bunkmoreland]

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2015/7/...-smh-broussard

If there were any standards left in journalism, Chris Broussard would never be printed by ESPN again.

[Underdog]

@HowardBeck: Fun fact: NBA Competition Committee meets Monday in Vegas. Committee includes Doc Rivers and Rick Carlisle.

[ocelot_ark]

Cuban has been riding the coattails of Dirk's greatness every single second of his time owning the Mavs. People often say that Cuban made so much of this possible because of his willingness to spend, but I find that highly dismissive of Dirk's greatness. Dirk elevated, repeatedly, the entire organization even when he was surrounded by stiffs. Cuban allowed us to bring in some good talent, no doubt. But who's to say that any other GM/Owner would have been any less successful with a top 15 player in their back pocket?

The biggest sign of Cuban's ineptitude is playing out right now. Draft picks are cancer. It's completely unacceptable that the Mavs haven't landed a single starter-level player in the draft since Josh Howard. Pathetic. Compared to the Spurs, the Mavs FO is straight dog poop.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What did Oklahoma City start with? You can't say "ALL." And you certainly can't put very many people in the same category of "golden" as what Cuban bought.

?? That comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Two hall-of-famers, with more than a decade of prime years ahead? My goodness. How could anyone possibly screw that up?

You're right, 11 straight 50- win seasons, two finals appearances (playing in possibly the toughest conference in league history) and a championship. Mark Cuban is an abject failure as an NBA owner. What a loser he is. I hope he fucking dies.

[bunkmoreland]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

who's to say that any other GM/Owner would have been any less successful with a top 15 player in their back pocket?

You can't be serious. Have you paid attention to what the front offices of team like the Bobcats, Kings, Wolves, Knicks, to name a few, have done over the past decade?

Yes, the Spurs have been managed better than any other team. That much is true.
And yes, the Mavericks have drafted poorly and not emphasized the draft enough.
But let's keep some perspective.
There are plenty of GMs and owners who have handled their teams far worse over the last decade.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

?? That comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.



You're right, 10 straight 50- win seasons, two finals appearances (playing in possibly the toughest conference in league history) and a championship. Mark Cuban is an abject failure as an NBA owner. What a loser he is. I hope he fucking dies.

Who had more of an impact on that? Dirk or Cuban? I can say, without a doubt, that we still could have had tons of success with any other owner + Dirk. I doubt we'd have anywhere NEAR the same success if we had Cuban + no Dirk.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally Posted by bunkmoreland

You can't be serious. Have you paid attention to what the front offices of team like the Bobcats, Kings, Wolves, Knicks, to name a few, have done over the past decade?

Yes, the Spurs have been managed better than any other team. That much is true.
And yes, the Mavericks have drafted poorly and not emphasized the draft enough.
But let's keep some perspective.
There are plenty of GMs and owners who have handled their teams far worse over the last decade.

Did any of those teams have a prime Dirk Nowitzki that could have compensated for the poor decisions? We did.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Who had more of an impact on that? Dirk or Cuban? I can say, without a doubt, that we still could have had tons of success with any other owner + Dirk. I doubt we'd have anywhere NEAR the same success if we had Cuban + no Dirk.

You're arguing a point that NOBODY is trying to make. Nobody is saying that Cuban deserves as much, or even anywhere near as much credit as Dirk does for what the Mavs have accomplished.

I am simply stating the undeniable FACT that all of the Mavs success has happened under Cuban's ownership. If you think *any* owner would have accomplished the same thing just by having Dirk on their roster, you clearly haven't seen how a shit ton of owners run their franchises around the NBA- and other leagues too.

[bunkmoreland]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Did any of those teams have a prime Dirk Nowitzki that could have compensated for the poor decisions? We did.

Those teams squandered talent and misplayed their hands in ways that made their fans wish they had been as thoughtfully as the Dallas Mavericks. But yes, none of them had Dirk Nowitzki on their team. In New York, they have to sit around and debate whether their owner even cares if the team wins or if he is just happy to keep making the money that comes no matter what off sales from a team in the biggest city in the country.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The first Clips game at the AAC is going to be chaos...

Big winner in this whole Jordan fiasco? Rajon Rondo... He's no longer Enemy #1 in Dallas.

I'm wondering if fans will chant 'Boo' or 'Foul'. Would be fun to see everyone demanding Mavs to foul him.

[LSMF]

Even the fucking Los Angeles Lakers are better than us at this point. Wow.

[Cerberus]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Even the fucking Los Angeles Lakers are better than us at this point. Wow.

I too was thinking of that.
I just want to know when Dirk is gonna talk to the media next.

[MavzMan]

Regardless if you agree with Cuban or not, you cannot deny that he is 100% a Mavs fan and wants championships over everything else. IN HIS OPINION, he has tried to build the best team possible around his best player. Do I agree with every decision he's made, no. But then he's the guy that put up $250 million to buy the team so he kind of has the final say so and I'm fine with that because I truly believe he cares about his players and wants to win. That is MUCH MORE than the vast majority of NBA owners.

We got screwed outside of Cuban's control. Nothing we can do about that now. Time to move on in whatever direction we can. I still trust that the MBT will do what they think is in the best interest of the Mavericks winning championships. As difficult as it will be, I will continue to be a Mavs fan and hopefully we get another Dirk-like player before I die ... all the while complaining about the 2006 Heat and Wade.

Dirk has a ring and Finals MVP. That is more than the vast majority of great players. When he sits in the stands after being retired, I honestly believe he will still love this franchise and not have any serious regrets. He came. He played. He lost and then won. His career has been better than 98% of the players in league history.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Regardless if you agree with Cuban or not, you cannot deny that he is 100% a Mavs fan and wants championships over everything else. IN HIS OPINION, he has tried to build the best team possible around his best player. Do I agree with every decision he's made, no. But then he's the guy that put up $250 million to buy the team so he kind of has the final say so and I'm fine with that because I truly believe he cares about his players and wants to win. That is MUCH MORE than the vast majority of NBA owners.

We got screwed outside of Cuban's control. Nothing we can do about that now. Time to move on in whatever direction we can. I still trust that the MBT will do what they think is in the best interest of the Mavericks winning championships. As difficult as it will be, I will continue to be a Mavs fan and hopefully we get another Dirk-like player before I die ... all the while complaining about the 2006 Heat and Wade.

Dirk has a ring and Finals MVP. That is more than the vast majority of great players. When he sits in the stands after being retired, I honestly believe he will still love this franchise and not have any serious regrets. He came. He played. He lost and then won. His career has been better than 98% of the players in league history.

I would say 99.8%

[Underdog]

@Whataburger: [Waiting at drive-thru after person orders but then drives off]
Deandre? Deandre?!

[Murphy3]

Let's be honest... Let's pretend that Cuban isn't the owner..that him and Little Whistle are the co-GM's and someone else owns the team. Don't they get fired at this point?

I know Cuban cares. At times I almost even like the guy..almost. He's always been an overly arrogant owner that thought he was the smartest guy in the room. I can't say that his arrogance didn't catch up to him...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Regardless if you agree with Cuban or not, you cannot deny that he is 100% a Mavs fan and wants championships over everything else. IN HIS OPINION, he has tried to build the best team possible around his best player. Do I agree with every decision he's made, no. But then he's the guy that put up $250 million to buy the team so he kind of has the final say so and I'm fine with that because I truly believe he cares about his players and wants to win. That is MUCH MORE than the vast majority of NBA owners.

We got screwed outside of Cuban's control. Nothing we can do about that now. Time to move on in whatever direction we can. I still trust that the MBT will do what they think is in the best interest of the Mavericks winning championships. As difficult as it will be, I will continue to be a Mavs fan and hopefully we get another Dirk-like player before I die ... all the while complaining about the 2006 Heat and Wade.

Dirk has a ring and Finals MVP. That is more than the vast majority of great players. When he sits in the stands after being retired, I honestly believe he will still love this franchise and not have any serious regrets. He came. He played. He lost and then won. His career has been better than 98% of the players in league history.

THANK YOU. I don't love Cuban or hate him. I view him objectively. And again I say- objectively, by ANY measure of tangible success- he is one of the most successful owners in American sports over the last 15 years.

Cuban has made plenty of mistakes, some of them very costly, but you absolutely cannot blame him for all of the failures and then turn around and not give him credit for any of the success. It just doesn't work that way. He deserves both. The mere fact that he is willing to spend copious amounts of money to win is more than you can say for a lot of owners. He deserves a great deal of credit for that alone.

And let's please not act like Dirk has had terrible supporting casts for his entire career. That is completely revisionist. His supporting casts haven't been as good as they probably could have, but they were at least competitive. He has consistently been surrounded by a roster that was at least good enough to win 50+ games. Dirk is a phenomenal, all-time great player. But NOBODY- not Michael Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem or anyone else, is so great that they alone could have carried a consistently terrible team to 11 straight 50-win seasons and a championship in the toughest conference in league history.

If Cuban doesn't deserve any of the credit for that, then he doesn't deserve any of the blame for where we are now.

Double standards are fucking stupid.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

I would say 99.8%

I stand corrected. As of Jan 22, 2014, there were 3,071 players in NBA history (from a random article via google). Dirk is currently #7 on all-time scoring list. Lets assume that some lower scoring players are better than him but definitely in the top 25. Then as of 1/22/14, he is in the top 99.99186%.

And I was a Mavs fan during his entire career. I went to a Finals game. I went to the parade with my daughter and held her up as he rode by on the trailer. I'm perfectly fine with the way everything has ended up and look forward to the Mavs future.

[LSMF]

I really wish we could just make other moves and start trying to move on from this disaster.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I stand corrected. As of Jan 22, 2014, there were 3,071 players in NBA history (from a random article via google). Dirk is currently #7 on all-time scoring list. Lets assume that some lower scoring players are better than him but definitely in the top 25. Then as of 1/22/14, he is in the top 99.99186%.

And I was a Mavs fan during his entire career. I went to a Finals game. I went to the parade with my daughter and held her up as he rode by on the trailer. I'm perfectly fine with the way everything has ended up and look forward to the Mavs future.

While I am frustrated that we didn't get more than one championship with Dirk I am incredibly thankful for 2011. The way he carried us will cement his legacy. I think Dirk retiring with the same amount of championships as Dr J isn't a bad thing.

[purplefrog]

This is exactly the kind of post-mortem analysis that I expect to see more of as we move further away from the July 8th event:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nb...-his-own-shot/

Basically, no foul was committed. No reason to change the free agency process because this occurs so infrequently. Couldn't disagree more.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Regardless if you agree with Cuban or not, you cannot deny that he is 100% a Mavs fan and wants championships over everything else. IN HIS OPINION, he has tried to build the best team possible around his best player. Do I agree with every decision he's made, no. But then he's the guy that put up $250 million to buy the team so he kind of has the final say so and I'm fine with that because I truly believe he cares about his players and wants to win. That is MUCH MORE than the vast majority of NBA owners.

We got screwed outside of Cuban's control. Nothing we can do about that now. Time to move on in whatever direction we can. I still trust that the MBT will do what they think is in the best interest of the Mavericks winning championships. As difficult as it will be, I will continue to be a Mavs fan and hopefully we get another Dirk-like player before I die ... all the while complaining about the 2006 Heat and Wade.


Dirk has a ring and Finals MVP. That is more than the vast majority of great players. When he sits in the stands after being retired, I honestly believe he will still love this franchise and not have any serious regrets. He came. He played. He lost and then won. His career has been better than 98% of the players in league history.

Have to wonder how much that clouds his judgement. He tries to go all NBA2k every offseason. In dirks 15+ years, he cant draft ONE GUY that could roll with Dirk throughout his time here. Dont give me the no guys that late in the draft stuff. Because they are/were there.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LSMF

I really wish we could just make other moves and start trying to move on from this disaster.

You don't think they are?

[Murphy3]

That's obviously what LSMF is saying.. LSMF probably wants the moves to hurry up and occur so that LSMF can put this in his or her rearview mirror as much as possible.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Have to wonder how much that clouds his judgement. He tries to go all NBA2k every offseason. In dirks 15+ years, he cant draft ONE GUY that could roll with Dirk throughout his time here. Dont give me the no guys that late in the draft stuff. Because they are/were there.

That is absolutely Cuban's cross to bear, and he does deserve the blame for that. Donnie too. Ignoring the draft in favor of aging veterans for an entire decade was a terrible strategy, and that more than any other reason- far more than letting Tyson Chandler walk in free agency, in 2011 and especially in 20-fucking-15- is the reason the Mavs are in the terrible state they are now.

[Melonhead]

The biggest issue with Cuban is he thinks he is smarter than everyone in the room. It always seems to bite him in the worst way possible for us

Punting drafts, Nash, Walker, Tyson, CBA.

[Five-ofan]

Everyone saying cuban has never made a good pick, josh Howard at the end of the first round isn't a good pick?

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

That's obviously what LSMF is saying.. LSMF probably wants the moves to hurry up and occur so that LSMF can put this in his or her rearview mirror as much as possible.

Yeah, pretty much.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Everyone saying cuban has never made a good pick, josh Howard at the end of the first round isn't a good pick?

That was 12 years ago.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Everyone saying cuban has never made a good pick, josh Howard at the end of the first round isn't a good pick?

A- that was over a decade ago, when Nellie was still in charge of the draft, and B- I don't think the knock on Cuban (or Donnie) is that they make bad picks- it's that the Mavs rarely ever have a first-round pick because they always trade it away for aging veterans.

Edit: And on the once in a blue moon occasion that the Mavs have had a first-round pick, they wasted it. In fairness, Roddy B probably would have had a really nice career if not for the injuries, so that one isn't Cuban/Donnie's fault. But in the last decade, the Mavs have basically gotten nothing out of the draft. There's no excuse for that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by bunkmoreland

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2015/7/...-smh-broussard

If there were any standards left in journalism, Chris Broussard would never be printed by ESPN again.

Franks and beans!

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

This is exactly the kind of post-mortem analysis that I expect to see more of as we move further away from the July 8th event:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nb...-his-own-shot/

Basically, no foul was committed. No reason to change the free agency process because this occurs so infrequently. Couldn't disagree more.

That is complete crap. It completely affected the direction and capability of this franchise over the next several years. I don't believe this is what really happened, but just for sake of argument this is perfectly legal ....

Balmer cannot stand Cuban and knows he wants DJ badly. Balmer works out a deal with DJ to string Cuban along just to piss him off and screw his franchise by tying up that $20 million while all the remaining decent players sign elsewhere. Then at the last minute, changes his mind and preventing the Mavs from chasing any 2nd tier player. That is 100% unethical but it 100% legal.

While I believe this is a false story, this is actually how it worked out. That is what is wrong with the system. Players are no longer mature enough to handle $20 million decisions correctly and it is costing franchises.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Yeah, pretty much.

It's been 12 hours and much of that was sleepy time. Give the F.O. Some time to regroup before whining that it's taking too long.

[Windmill360]

If there werent something wrong with it why dont more NBA teams fabricate false agreements just to torpedo other franchises and hold them hostage as a strategy? The reason? BECAUSE ITS WRONG.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's been 12 hours and much of that was sleepy time. Give the F.O. Some time to regroup before whining that it's taking too long.

How am I whining? WTF?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Better and good are very different things.

I think a lot of people would rather be mediocre forever than to even try to be good.

But I think we'd be good with Jordan as well. Without a serious upgrade at pg, there was a 1% chance of competing for a championship next season. Sure, Jordan gives us a brighter future and a core to build around, but next summer would be chase another big name fiasco all over again.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LSMF

I really wish we could just make other moves and start trying to move on from this disaster.

Yeah, I'm just not sure if there are many moves left to be made. The market is tapped until somebody new becomes available (which might happen as players ink contracts over the next few days...) I'd love to get some closure with this roster as well, but at this point there's very little risk in waiting to see what develops.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But I think we'd be good with Jordan as well. Without a serious upgrade at pg, there was a 1% chance of competing for a championship next season. Sure, Jordan gives us a brighter future and a core to build around, but next summer would be chase another big name fiasco all over again.

Well that was the plan, wasn't it? Establish a solid core now, and then build around it over the next couple of years? I don't think the Mavs had any delusions about competing for the title next season, Jordan or no.

I don't understand where you're coming from. Are you arguing that the Mavs shouldn't have even tried to sign Jordan? That they just should have re-signed Chandler immediately? Even after Jordan had already indicated that he was interested in playing for Dallas?

If that's what you're arguing, I must strongly disagree.

[Melonhead]

Anyone see the video of the crazy mavs fan sounding off? I dislike it and love it at the same time.

Very NSFW: "Deandre Jordan Rot in Hell"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MhD3YfnAsU