MAVS vs SUNS WCF GAME 5 - Page 25 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 06-02-2006, 12:01 AM

Pretty much 99.99999% of the newbies do suck but the good ones overcome it quickly.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You're right, and I'm sure it has to in large part with the role they are asking him to play. That's what goes underappreciated here. They are asking Van Horn to play center, for goodness sakes! They don't run any plays for him. When he gets the ball, he's pretty much supposed to pass it to a guard. His game is catch-and-shoot, and they don't set him up for that. Instead they send him out to set screens.

Sometimes they do sit him at the arc for the catch-and-shoot, but they rarely pass it to him. Listen, it's not Van Horn who is doing the Mavs wrong. I have watched him VERY closely this series. He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

Now, that's not a bad thing. Sometimes a placeholder is just what you need. But to criticize him for his lack of production is, to borrow from Cheney, beyond the pale. They are asking for absolutely nothing from Van Horn, and they are giving him the opportunity for very close to nothing, so nothing is what they should expect!

And that's okay. He doesn't have to give them anything in order to help the team. His defense and his spelling Diop is valuable enough. But some fans want to see him scoring 20, I guess.

Van Horn is playing Center on defense,Dirk is playing the post on offense.
The plays shouldn't be designated to him because we have better options on offense.
He gets to shoot the ball when the defense collapses or after double ups,than he gets a good look for the 3 ball.
I'm not sure what you want him to do,i dont trust him on the penetration very much.
He has a bad finish and makes bad decisions on offense,he should stay behind the 3 point line and hope the ball would reach him.
I do think he lost his confidence in his shot,which is a pitty because he has a pretty decent stroke,but again i dont think he is that vital on offense that we should force fid him the ball to get him out of the slump.
If he starts making them,great,if not,too bad.

MavKikiNYC · 06-02-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

Now, that's not a bad thing. Sometimes a placeholder is just what you need. But to criticize him for his lack of production is, to borrow from Cheney, beyond the pale. They are asking for absolutely nothing from Van Horn, and they are giving him the opportunity for very close to nothing, so nothing is what they should expect!

Offensively, I can live with him being a placeholder. It's much more upsetting to me to see him taking shots he can't make at this point--early, long shots that ignite the Suns' break. I will tip my hat to him if he can get 6-8 garbage points.

Defensively, we're seeing things differently. ... Very differently.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:05 AM

The ball hardly reaches him because everyone else can create much better,its as simple as that.

chumdawg · 06-02-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Be fair. I think we'd all settle for 10-12 points in a game from Keith. The way I see it, if Avery had any confidence in Keith's ability to hit a shot right now, he'd give him a few shots. But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I agree. There's no reason to bitch about Van Horn right now. He's basically doing what they're asking him to do, as best he can, and he's playing hard.

How many shots would it take to get 10-12 points? Six or eight at least, right? Van Horn is lucky to get ONE shot in this offense.

That's simply not what they are trying to get from him. It's time we recognize that, and appreciate his appreciable defensive efforts.

Cybertx · 06-02-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Sometimes they do sit him at the arc for the catch-and-shoot, but they rarely pass it to him. Listen, it's not Van Horn who is doing the Mavs wrong. I have watched him VERY closely this series. He is doing everything they ask him to, exactly. And they aren't giving him any opportunities.

.

he has shoot at least 7 fg in all the games except in games 2 and 4 and he has tried a three pointer in all of them except in game 5, he has tried 7 and 11 fg in the first game, 1 in game 3 and 2 in game 2 and 4.

He's a player knows for his offense and if he's not shooting better to put a defensive player.

chumdawg · 06-02-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Offensively, I can live with him being a placeholder. It's much more upsetting to me to see him taking shots he can't make at this point--early, long shots that ignite the Suns' break. I will tip my hat to him if he can get 6-8 garbage points.

Defensively, we're seeing things differently. ... Very differently.

For the moment I will leave aside the fact that Phoenix fast-breaks a lot more often with Diop in the game than with Van Horn in the game, and just ask you: What else would we do with Diop on the bench? Dampier?

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

How many shots would it take to get 10-12 points? Six or eight at least, right? Van Horn is lucky to get ONE shot in this offense.

That's simply not what they are trying to get from him. It's time we recognize that, and appreciate his appreciable defensive efforts.

Van horn shot an average of 6.7 shots a game in the playoffs so far on 16 minutes of playing.
He gets his fair share.

Drbio · 06-02-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybertx

he has shoot at least 7 fg in all the games except in games 2 and 4 and he has tried a three pointer in all of them except in game 5, he has tried 11 in the first game 1 in game 3 and 2 in game 2 and 4.

He's a player knows for his offense and if he's not shooting better to put a defensive player.

I would take several minutes of Dampier. I think Avery is making a huge mistake by burying him on the bench. I hope he will be mentally ready for Shaq.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

For the moment I will leave aside the fact that Phoenix fast-breaks a lot more often with Diop in the game than with Van Horn in the game, and just ask you: What else would we do with Diop on the bench? Dampier?

Damp is just wrong for this series,but to tell you the truth,by how Keith plays,i think would like to try Josh Powell out there.
I think he would be ideal guarding Diaw.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I would take several minutes of Dampier. I think Avery is making a huge mistake by burying him on the bench. I hope he will be mentally ready for Shaq.

Keeping him fresh is the only excuse of using Damp in this series,he's just wrong for this doc.

Cybertx · 06-02-2006, 12:15 AM

yeah powell even mbenga he's our faster center and contrary to what everybody thinks TT it's not much faster than diop

MavKikiNYC · 06-02-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I would take several minutes of Dampier. I think Avery is making a huge mistake by burying him on the bench. I hope he will be mentally ready for Shaq.

Same. But I thought Damp would wilt back in January when they made the switch.

I hope that Avery knows Damp's psyche, and is priming him for a chance to showcase his worth in a matchup against Shaq.

Here's hoping.

jleefilled · 06-02-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I would take several minutes of Dampier. I think Avery is making a huge mistake by burying him on the bench. I hope he will be mentally ready for Shaq.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Mavs need to be mentally read for the Suns' best in game six. I think just the fact that Dampier will be in the Finals will be enough to get Dampier ready.

DaMavsCom · 06-02-2006, 12:17 AM

I will take 15 minutes of no shooting, space filling van horn over the 25 minutes of jacking it up attempting to shoot the mavs out of the game we got the first few games he played in this series.

His shot is off, he does not need to take more than 1 or 2 shots and only then if they are wide open. The Mavs have plenty of other guys who need to step up and score more, including Harris, Terry and Stackhouse. We don't need them worrying about getting Van Horn shots.

kg_veteran · 06-02-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

How many shots would it take to get 10-12 points? Six or eight at least, right? Van Horn is lucky to get ONE shot in this offense.

He's averaging 6.5 FGA per game in this series -- and he's scoring 5 ppg. If he were shooting a bit better, I don't think a 10-12 point game ONCE in the series would be out of question.

I'm not trying to pick on Keith, but you're acting like there's no chance for him to score 10-12 points with the way the Mavs are running their offense. That's not really true.

Quote:

That's simply not what they are trying to get from him. It's time we recognize that, and appreciate his appreciable defensive efforts.

I thought I did give appreciation for his defensive efforts.

Cybertx · 06-02-2006, 12:18 AM

according to 82 games
------------------------------------------------------------- min off def */-
Harris-Terry-Howard-Van Horn-Nowitzki --------27 59 67 -8

Harris-Terry-Howard-Nowitzki-Diop--------------60 115 103 +12

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jleefilled

I think just the fact that Dampier will be in the Finals will be enough to get Dampier ready.

Not sure about that,the man looks like he's on a bad acid trip most of the times.

kg_veteran · 06-02-2006, 12:20 AM

Great win tonight. Fantastic performance by Dirk.

Good night all.

jleefilled · 06-02-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowitzki_prophecy

Not sure about that,the man looks like he's on a bad acid trip most of the times.

Well then, he should remember that without him, the Mavs would not have gotten passed the Spurs. I thought he played huge throughout that series.

AxdemxO · 06-02-2006, 12:22 AM

Aite i m bak from work and i m 2-0 with my GDT and since Evil wanted to start this one and both me and him are undefeated...ME AND EVIL SHOULD START THE NEXT GDT TOGETHER...AND THAT WOULD WITHOUT A DOUBT LEAD TO A MAVS VICTRY AND TRIP TO THE FINLAS.

I m over joyed tht Mavs won....GO MAVS

nashtymavsfan13 · 06-02-2006, 12:24 AM

Great performance by Dirk tonight, to again quiet the doubters.

Dirk is just unhuman sometimes!!

raefformvp · 06-02-2006, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Same. But I thought Damp would wilt back in January when they made the switch.

I hope that Avery knows Damp's psyche, and is priming him for a chance to showcase his worth in a matchup against Shaq.

Here's hoping.

Did you see Damp on the sideline during a timeout after the Mavs went on a big run? No emotion whatsoever. A bit scary. I know the guy is stoic, but my gosh, it's game 5 of the Western Conference Finals! I hope that he is secure enough in himself to realize that this is just not a good match for him in this series.

LonghornDub · 06-02-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybertx

yes they are better for our sixth man than our starter guard and the percentage it's not that different terry went 6-13 in 33 min. with 3 to and 9 assists 5 pf 14 points and stack was 7-18 in 39 min 5 assists and 2 to 2 pf 16 points.

Our second or third best player has to do better than our fourth, fiftht or sixth.

38% is pretty different from 46%. Pretty damn different. I agree with the rest of what you said though.

Drbio · 06-02-2006, 12:27 AM

I think Avery is screwing the pooch by not playing Damp. Unlesshe is hurt or soemthing that we are not aware of this is a monumentally stupid move imho.

dude1394 · 06-02-2006, 12:33 AM

I didn't realize this was going on.

Quote:

Harris went missing in action early in the second half. After diving over the Phoenix bench to save a loose ball, the Suns didn't make room for him to return, forcing him to walk all the way to the Dallas bench to find an opening. ... .

So would harris have been T'd up or thrown out if he'd just gone right through their bench? I would imagine you wouldn't see Stackhouse walking all the way behind to be back on the court.

nowitzki_prophecy · 06-02-2006, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I think Avery is screwing the pooch by not playing Damp. Unlesshe is hurt or soemthing that we are not aware of this is a monumentally stupid move imho.

tfu tfu tfu,dont even laugh about it.He's an exteremly importent piece in the finals,Maimi or Detroit.

MFFL · 06-02-2006, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I think Avery is screwing the pooch by not playing Damp. Unlesshe is hurt or soemthing that we are not aware of this is a monumentally stupid move imho.

I disagree. He was ineffective in last year's series with Phoenix and they are EVEN FASTER this year. Diop is younger, more mobile and a better shot blocker.

Damp really is a non-issue. We would have won this game in an end-to-end blowout if Howard and Harris hadn't gotten in early foul trouble.

raefformvp · 06-02-2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I didn't realize this was going on.

So would harris have been T'd up or thrown out if he'd just gone right through their bench? I would imagine you wouldn't see Stackhouse walking all the way behind to be back on the court.

I wondered why he walked all the way around. While replaying it on TIVO I was more concerned with the lady he took out. Glad to see that she was okay!

chumdawg · 06-02-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I didn't realize this was going on.

So would harris have been T'd up or thrown out if he'd just gone right through their bench? I would imagine you wouldn't see Stackhouse walking all the way behind to be back on the court.

From what I saw on the broadcast, he didn't have to go anywhere near the Mavs bench. He hopped over the scorers table. I suspect that is overblown.

Drbio · 06-02-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

I disagree. He was ineffective in last year's series with Phoenix and they are EVEN FASTER this year. Diop is younger, more mobile and a better shot blocker.

Damp really is a non-issue. We would have won this game in an end-to-end blowout if Howard and Harris hadn't gotten in early foul trouble.

Didn't say he needed to log more minutes than Diop....but he does need minutes. I worry about his mental response.

dude1394 · 06-02-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

From what I saw on the broadcast, he didn't have to go anywhere near the Mavs bench. He hopped over the scorers table. I suspect that is overblown.

He walked 2/3rds down the aisle. Past the suns bence and past the halfway point. It was pretty funny actually, but I didn't realize the suns were not letting him in. Sounds like tim thomas crud.

SlimBig · 06-02-2006, 01:18 AM

I wonder if we bring in Damp, should we switch to a zone. Maybe a 2-3. Hopefully that could clog the middle, nullifying Diaw and give the Mavs a chance to cover the perimeter.

nashtymavsfan13 · 06-02-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimBig

I wonder if we bring in Damp, should we switch to a zone. Maybe a 2-3. Hopefully that could clog the middle, nullifying Diaw and give the Mavs a chance to cover the perimeter.

Damp isn't going to play this series. If he was, he'd have played already. We'll probably just keep doing what we've been doing, because when we do it right, it works.

Movie Phone · 06-02-2006, 02:38 AM

were the suns really not letting devin harris back in? thats pretty messed up....im beginning to develop a strong HATE for the suns right now. especially that tim thomas guy. i know this has been said in numerous other threads tonight, but right when thomas hit his last 3 pointer to get 26, he didint score after that. and dirk just went insane after that. what a resilient team led by a resilient leader. 50 points. wow.

EricaLubarsky · 06-02-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Movie Phone

were the suns really not letting devin harris back in? thats pretty messed up....im beginning to develop a strong HATE for the suns right now. especially that tim thomas guy. i know this has been said in numerous other threads tonight, but right when thomas hit his last 3 pointer to get 26, he didint score after that. and dirk just went insane after that. what a resilient team led by a resilient leader. 50 points. wow.

what gets me is that every play that the Mavs touch the ball after scoring D'Antoni has a pissy fit trying to get a dely of game warning, yet they can pull that crap

digit · 06-02-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

Dirk is playing like a damn girl.

I'm just asking myself, what would it be like if only Dirk would finally start playing like a MAN?!

jleefilled · 06-02-2006, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdgridiron

It's time for the Mavs to get ReDirkulous...

Down seven in the third, bigdgridiron let everyone know what time it is!

Big Boy Laroux · 06-02-2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

but it was worth it not to hear Albert's orgasmic reaction .

i would just love for albert to get something right every once in a while...

"Dirk drives baseline! [whistle blows] And a foul is called! [delay] No! He stepped out of bounds!" all the while, the ref is making the "traveling call" signal. he's so awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

From what I saw on the broadcast, he didn't have to go anywhere near the Mavs bench. He hopped over the scorers table. I suspect that is overblown.

he definitely went all the way down to where avery was standing (the timeline on the mavs side of the court). i didn't see anything with the suns not letting him in... it'd be nice to see a replay. but he definitely went down to the mavs bench.

that poor woman. hit in the mouth, and was *this* close to flashing the entire nation.

Male30Dan · 06-02-2006, 07:47 AM

Just thought I would get this Fer to 1000 posts with a WOO HOO, MAVS WIN!