2017 NBA Draft - Page 26 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BPo001 · 05-12-2017, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

He's trying to say the Mavs are over for who knows how long... which leaves him to not jump back on the wagon. You set me up to the most valuable point. Which is weeding out the bandwagon. So that had to be an HSO. A solid one.

Yahno, that's definitely not what I meant. And I've been a fan since I moved here in '93. No bandwagon here!

Underdog · 05-12-2017, 08:15 PM

So this article points out the Mavs interest in Frank, but also mentions that his time in the triangle might appeal to Phil Jackson's Knicks: http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...149601434.html

Looks like NYK could be our biggest competition for Ntilikina, but of course that means someone else is gonna drop...

BPo001 · 05-12-2017, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Not sure why he would -- Donnie is mostly flying out to Europe to feel out Frank's mindset and attitude, not to assess his talent... Holger is a shot doctor, not a scout.

While I doubt they asked Holger to go on this trip do you think they ever would as Holger to go on a scouting trip with them? Or have they ever? I don't recall him ever going on a trip with the Mavs. I wonder how interesting Holger would be.

MavzMan · 05-12-2017, 08:27 PM

I really lean towards HB continuing to play a SF role which allows us to "go big" with Noel and another PF in there. I still consider Noel to be a PF just because he hasn't bulked up from age. I tend to like the Noel+Powell+HB ... and I used Powell as a placeholder while maintaining the thinnest of hopes he comes around next year.

That said, PLEASE draft a PG that we can rally around next year!!! It would be amazing for DSJ to drop to us but I'm preparing myself to settle for Frank and hope that he develops quicker than I expect.

Underdog · 05-12-2017, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

While I doubt they asked Holger to go on this trip do you think they ever would as Holger to go on a scouting trip with them? Or have they ever? I don't recall him ever going on a trip with the Mavs. I wonder how interesting Holger would be.

I've never heard of Holger working with the scouting department in the past. He mostly only works with Dirk, plus any other Mavs that seek his advice when he's in the gym. Pretty sure he spends the rest of his time teaching youth camps in Germany.

sefant77 · 05-13-2017, 12:04 PM

And doing applied nonsense

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-13-2017, 01:29 PM

Fish talked to Donnie about his Euro draft related trip...

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/s...-scouting-tour

Mentioned that Frank would get some heavy burn on the Legends next season since he needs more developing. Thats why I stressed that people need to be patient if he is drafted.

BPo001 · 05-13-2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Fish talked to Donnie about his Euro draft related trip...

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/s...-scouting-tour

Mentioned that Frank would get some heavy burn on the Legends next season since he needs more developing. Thats why I stressed that people need to be patient if he is drafted.

Crazy to think Donnie did all that work scouting Giannis and we traded back to to save a little money on a pipe dream. I knew Donnie wanted to draft him, but didn't realize he had built up that kind of relationship with him. Hopefully Cuban sits down and lets Donnie do his job.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-13-2017, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Crazy to think Donnie did all that work scouting Giannis and we traded back to to save a little money on a pipe dream. I knew Donnie wanted to draft him, but didn't realize he had built up that kind of relationship with him. Hopefully Cuban sits down and lets Donnie do his job.

If Donnie wants Frank, then we draft him. End of story.

He isn't the freak athlete Giannis is, but he seems to have most other things going for him. Can shoot, run pick and roll, plays good defense, good handles, changes speed well, etc. He is a clever player like Roddy and uses that versus all out speed and quickness.

But once again, it's all tools at this point. The kid has little experience, and there isn't a ton of tape on him. It's probably a bigger risk and reward than Giannis, but the reward may still be worth it. I think that primarily because there isn't a superstar available at our pick so why not go for the best upside.

rimrocker · 05-13-2017, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Fish talked to Donnie about his Euro draft related trip...

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/s...-scouting-tour

Mentioned that Frank would get some heavy burn on the Legends next season since he needs more developing. Thats why I stressed that people need to be patient if he is drafted.

That is where I have some reserves on drafting Ntilikina. Considering the age of our core we don't have a lot of time for developing players. Sure it will take a few years to develop any PG we draft but it seems Ntilikina could take longer than some of the others.

But having said that, I wouldn't be disappointed at all if he is our pick because I do think him and Curry would complement each other well and could become a pretty dynamic backcourt.

BPo001 · 05-13-2017, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

That is where I have some reserves on drafting Ntilikina. Considering the age of our core we don't have a lot of time for developing players. Sure it will take a few years to develop any PG we draft but it seems Ntilikina could take longer than some of the others.

But having said that, I wouldn't be disappointed at all if he is our pick because I do think him and Curry would complement each other well and could become a pretty dynamic backcourt.

Our core players are still young. Barnes is 23 and Noel (assuming he is re-signed) is 22. Seth is 25 if you think he is part of our core moving forward. While I agree it may take Frank 2 years to get up to speed I disagree that we don't have time to develop players.

rimrocker · 05-13-2017, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Our core players are still young. Barnes is 23 and Noel (assuming he is re-signed) is 22. Seth is 25 if you think he is part of our core moving forward. While I agree it may take Frank 2 years to get up to speed I disagree that we don't have time to develop players.

Barnes will be 25 in a few weeks, Noel just turned 23 and Curry will be 27 later this summer. If Ntilikina only takes two years to develop that would be amazing and a good thing for us and probably about par for some of the others. I'm thinking it could take 3 or 4 years though.

Like I said, I wouldn't be upset if we draft him but I think we'd have to be patient with his development.

Underdog · 05-13-2017, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

That is where I have some reserves on drafting Ntilikina. Considering the age of our core we don't have a lot of time for developing players. Sure it will take a few years to develop any PG we draft but it seems Ntilikina could take longer than some of the others.

But having said that, I wouldn't be disappointed at all if he is our pick because I do think him and Curry would complement each other well and could become a pretty dynamic backcourt.

Even if Ntilikina takes some time to develop, he's probably still the best pick once all the other PGs are gone. I'll definitely take him over Lauri or Collins, probably even Isaac... But I'd still prefer Fultz/Ball/Fox/Smith over him.

Underdog · 05-13-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Barnes will be 25 in a few weeks, Noel just turned 23 and Curry will be 27 later this summer. If Ntilikina only takes two years to develop that would be amazing and a good thing for us and probably about par for some of the others. I'm thinking it could take 3 or 4 years though.

Like I said, I wouldn't be upset if we draft him but I think we'd have to be patient with his development.

Everyone is still young, just gotta convince guys like Barnes to stick around for another contract so Frank has time to gel (if he ends up here).

BPo001 · 05-13-2017, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Barnes will be 25 in a few weeks, Noel just turned 23 and Curry will be 27 later this summer. If Ntilikina only takes two years to develop that would be amazing and a good thing for us and probably about par for some of the others. I'm thinking it could take 3 or 4 years though.

Like I said, I wouldn't be upset if we draft him but I think we'd have to be patient with his development.

Clearly the website I looked at with their age was old, so add 1 year to each player I mentioned. I say 2 years to be a solid contributor, but 3-4 years is probably right for him to be a difference maker night in/night out (assuming he puts in the work to become better). There a few other names I'd be interested in before him, but I also wouldn't be upset if we took him. I think the Knicks take him unfortunately if he's available when they pick. Can't wait until Tuesday so we actually know what pick we have.

rimrocker · 05-14-2017, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Clearly the website I looked at with their age was old, so add 1 year to each player I mentioned. I say 2 years to be a solid contributor, but 3-4 years is probably right for him to be a difference maker night in/night out (assuming he puts in the work to become better). There a few other names I'd be interested in before him, but I also wouldn't be upset if we took him. I think the Knicks take him unfortunately if he's available when they pick. Can't wait until Tuesday so we actually know what pick we have.

Yeah, I agree he will probably be gone when we pick and like you I can't wait until Tuesday so we'll know for sure where we will be picking. Hopefully our conversation will shift to how well Fultz will fit into our system after Tuesday

rimrocker · 05-14-2017, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Even if Ntilikina takes some time to develop, he's probably still the best pick once all the other PGs are gone. I'll definitely take him over Lauri or Collins, probably even Isaac... But I'd still prefer Fultz/Ball/Fox/Smith over him.

Absolutely....I want no part of Markkanen unless we trade down and grab another pick and he happens to slip for some reason.
I like Collins but not at 9.... hope some team ahead of us falls in love with one of those two and Ntilikina or Smith falls to us.

rimrocker · 05-14-2017, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Everyone is still young, just gotta convince guys like Barnes to stick around for another contract so Frank has time to gel (if he ends up here).

I love Smith as a player over Ntilikina but I'm very intrigued by a Ntilikina/Curry backcourt because they would seem to complement each other very well.
I'd still pick Smith given the choice between those two but Rick could do wonders with Ntilikina. Still the big question to me is how long would it take.

BPo001 · 05-14-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I love Smith as a player over Ntilikina but I'm very intrigued by a Ntilikina/Curry backcourt because they would seem to complement each other very well.
I'd still pick Smith given the choice between those two but Rick could do wonders with Ntilikina. Still the big question to me is how long would it take.

Smith, Ntilikina, and Isaac are the 3 players I would want picked if we end up at 9. I'm highest on Smith and hope we end up with him.

hayth.james.g · 05-14-2017, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Smith, Ntilikina, and Isaac are the 3 players I would want picked if we end up at 9. I'm highest on Smith and hope we end up with him.

I agree with this. Only exception I would add is Monk. Special scorer. He is my number 1 on the wish list.

Underdog · 05-14-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I agree with this. Only exception I would add is Monk. Special scorer. He is my number 1 on the wish list.

Yeah, I just don't see Monk slipping to #9, mainly because he is such a good scorer and so many teams ahead of us in this draft need of a guy who can put up points, regardless of positional needs.

SMC0007 · 05-15-2017, 10:31 AM

My weak ass prediction is Boston takes Jackson at 1 or maneuvers for a center. Horford is a nice PF and doesn't need to carry that load.

So the PG's are going to slip down a pick at least.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-15-2017, 10:46 AM

I still think Boston goes guard. IT has a year left on a bargain contract, AB has a year left, and Smart has 2. Rozier hasn't shown anything outside of maybe being a backup. Meanwhile they still have Jaylen Brown from last year's draft who was the #3 pick.

Besides we are getting the #3 pick so don't worry about pg's needing to slide!

saclare · 05-15-2017, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Fish talked to Donnie about his Euro draft related trip...

http://www.scout.com/nba/mavericks/s...-scouting-tour

Mentioned that Frank would get some heavy burn on the Legends next season since he needs more developing. Thats why I stressed that people need to be patient if he is drafted.

Highly doubt he spends much, if any, time on the Legends. Unless he is much more raw than I think. He will take his lumps and bruises with the big league club.

At this point, I would take that comment as smoke and mirrors. I think Donnie really wants Frank and hopes that he will still be there come the 9th pick.

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2017, 12:27 PM

The recurring theme I always see when I predict the draft is that if someone amazing like Monk gets bumped into the top 8, then someone will fall out to 9th. Person A wants Player X. Person B, (maybe correctly) says that Player X will be top 8. It can be a frustrating discussion, but underlying all of that discussion is how many good players there are 10-15 amazing players can't all be drafted in the top 8. Someone will fall.

It may not be an elite guard (Fultz, Smith, Fox, Ball), but between PGs, forwards, and Monk, there will be someone incredibly talented available at 9.

I just hope we don't get bumped back to 10th or 11th.

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2017, 03:12 PM

I know the lottery doesn't mean much, but...

Whoa, they draw the top three tomorrow afternoon?

Melonhead · 05-15-2017, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I know the lottery doesn't mean much, but...

Whoa, they draw the top three tomorrow afternoon?

Tuesday 8pm Eastern ESPN

sefant77 · 05-15-2017, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I know the lottery doesn't mean much, but...

Whoa, they draw the top three tomorrow afternoon?

The Draft always IS just drawing the top-3...the rest goes by order

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2017, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

The Draft always IS just drawing the top-3...the rest goes by order

I know how the draft works, but that top three determines a lot for us. Players won't be divied up, but the results of the top three are a huge step for us.

Mavs jump to top three? HUGE
One team 10-14 jumps into top three? We draft 10th instead of 9th
Two teams 10-14 jump into top three? We draft 11th instead of 9th.

Odds are high we stay with 9th, but in 27 hours, we'll know if we pick 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, or 11. Small chance of bumping our pick up or down, but if it happens, the implications are huge for us.

Maybe I'm just jonesing for Mavs news.

rimrocker · 05-15-2017, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I know how the draft works, but that top three determines a lot for us. Players won't be divied up, but the results of the top three are a huge step for us.

Mavs jump to top three? HUGE
One team 10-14 jumps into top three? We draft 10th instead of 9th
Two teams 10-14 jump into top three? We draft 11th instead of 9th.

Odds are high we stay with 9th, but in 27 hours, we'll know if we pick 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, or 11. Small chance of bumping our pick up or down, but if it happens, the implications are huge for us.

Maybe I'm just jonesing for Mavs news.

So just for discussion, say we get the #2 pick and Fultz is gone.....who do we take?
Jackson's upside is almost too much to pass up but with 4 franchise PGs it would be a tough decision imo.

EricaLubarsky · 05-15-2017, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

So just for discussion, say we get the #2 pick and Fultz is gone.....who do we take?
Jackson's upside is almost too much to pass up but with 4 franchise PGs it would be a tough decision imo.

Personally? I may take Smith. I'm that high on his overall skill level and leadership and he fits a need.

I have reservations about Fox's jumper and Ball's ability to contribute at the next level (ability to get his shot off which is central to his ability to make plays) and the drama of his dad. Frank has high potential, but it's hard to pick a project at #2. Multiple teams are going to pass on Frank just because of how far out he is from contributing, but he can just as easily be an NBA bust as the next Greek Freak. The further a player is from contributing, the more that can go wrong before they meet their potential.

Lots of teams are going to face scenarios like that. Guys may be available lower down, but there may not be an opportunity to trade down and guys may be gone earlier (sometimes WAY earlier) anyway. This draft is going to be absolute anarchy. Almost every pick this draft is going to be incredibly tense. Every pick you're grabbing one guy while not letting 4-8 potential superstars walk away.

Underdog · 05-15-2017, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

So just for discussion, say we get the #2 pick and Fultz is gone.....who do we take?
Jackson's upside is almost too much to pass up but with 4 franchise PGs it would be a tough decision imo.

Jackson is pretty much Barnes, but with more rebounding, defense, and possibly higher upside (actually, I could see the two working well together, since Barnes could use more rebounding from the 3 if he continues to play the 4)... He needs to work on his shot, but this is the right franchise to help with that. His BBIQ and tenacity just scream "Rick Carlisle guy."

I like Ball's upside too, but his shot would be the ugliest we've seen in a Mavs uniform since Shawn Marion.. Shooting aside, he's basically a Jason Kidd starter kit with his size, passing ability, court vision, and defensive prowess... But LaVar Ball easily gives Josh Jackson any sort of tie-breaker here.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-15-2017, 05:20 PM

Not gonna lie, I really don't like Jackson, at least not that high. I can see the upside but I think he has huuuuuge bust potential as well. But everyone seems to love Jackson so maybe I'm just too paranoid about his ft shooting. But 56% is God awful for a wing. Every single player comp I've seen on him from Wiggins to Butler to Kawhi and none of those dudes had lower than 72-75% ft's in college. This dude shot 56%.... part of making FT's is mental also, something I don't want to question about a #2 overall pick. Again it may be nitpicky and a little paranoia, but I just don't want to whiff on this pick... and Roberson is still fresh in my mind.

Underdog · 05-15-2017, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Not gonna lie, I really don't like Jackson, at least not that high. I can see the upside but I think he has huuuuuge bust potential as well. But everyone seems to love Jackson so maybe I'm just too paranoid about his ft shooting. But 56% is God awful for a wing. Every single player comp I've seen on him from Wiggins to Butler to Kawhi and none of those dudes had lower than 72-75% ft's in college. This dude shot 56%.... part of making FT's is mental also, something I don't want to question about a #2 overall pick. Again it may be nitpicky and a little paranoia, but I just don't want to whiff on this pick... and Roberson is still fresh in my mind.

So if you passed on Jackson, who would you take?

(lol, we only have 24 hours to play this hypothetical, then we have to switch back to thinking about our #9 pick...)

Bryan_Wilson · 05-15-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So if you passed on Jackson, who would you take?

In this scenario of having the number 2 pick? Moving down 3-4 spots would be my preference personally, but in terms of just straight up player rankings... gun to my head right now I would take DSJ prolly. Like EL, I'm not sold on Fox's jumper, so after Fultz, DSJ is my pick personally.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-15-2017, 05:36 PM

Coin flip between Fox and DSJ for me. Fultz is the only guard I'd take over them. Don't want Ball with daddy running things.

NBAdraft.net's current mock has us taking Monk. I actually think he is the most likely of the talents to fall to 9 at this point. Things are bound to change though.

saclare · 05-15-2017, 05:39 PM

Very tough question. I think it comes down to Jackson, Tatum, Fox, DSJ, and Isaac. Out of those guys, Tatum and DSJ would be my two favorite, depending on which direction we would like to go. I'd lean the PG in the Steve Francis starter kit in DSJ.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-15-2017, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Very tough question. I think it comes down to Jackson, Tatum, Fox, DSJ, and Isaac. Out of those guys, Tatum and DSJ would be my two favorite, depending on which direction we would like to go. I'd lean the PG in the Steve Francis starter kit in DSJ.

I like Tatum too. I just think he's way too similar to Barnes. I mean if he falls he falls, or if the Mavs have a super high grade on him then fine. But I don't know how well Barnes and Tatum could play together. I'm fine with basically every player you listed though which is why I'd love to move down just a bit if we did end up with the 2nd pick and Fultz was gone.

sefant77 · 05-15-2017, 06:51 PM

I would always take Fox over Ball. I dont want Lavar anywhere near my franchise and pure playmaking skills are overrated these years. Drive and dish, thats pretty much all the playmaking skills you need when you are a quick guard...just watch the impact of Rubio vs an average playmaker like Schröder etc

rimrocker · 05-15-2017, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Not gonna lie, I really don't like Jackson, at least not that high. I can see the upside but I think he has huuuuuge bust potential as well. But everyone seems to love Jackson so maybe I'm just too paranoid about his ft shooting. But 56% is God awful for a wing. Every single player comp I've seen on him from Wiggins to Butler to Kawhi and none of those dudes had lower than 72-75% ft's in college. This dude shot 56%.... part of making FT's is mental also, something I don't want to question about a #2 overall pick. Again it may be nitpicky and a little paranoia, but I just don't want to whiff on this pick... and Roberson is still fresh in my mind.

I understand the concern and actually thought the same thing the first half of the college year but he really came on the 2nd half and literally carried the Jayhawks on his back which was pretty telling to me considering they had one of the best backcourts (Frank Mason...Senior and Devonte Graham....Junior) in the country.
I wouldn't have taken Jackson with the #9 pick in January but would actually consider taking him #1 now if it wasn't for more need at PG.

Jackson's ball handling, defense (can guard 4 positions), ability to attack the basket, passing, rebounding aggression, high BBIQ, incredible athleticism, attitude, ability to lead and much improved 3pt shooting at the college level more than makes up for the poor FT shooting as far as I'm concerned.

I share the concern in that regard but I think Roberson is an unfair comparison.